Why worry about global warming?

[LifeToTheFullest!]

I'm talking about all the ice melting in a very short period of time --- not over decades.

Once again, should all the ice and snow on the planet melt today, the level of the ocean would be lower tomorrow.

In my opinion.

It's basic science.

"Science can take a hike."

 

[Cabal]

Then why don't the doomsday scientists mention that, instead of whining about ice and snow melting?

Oh, way to shift the blame there. I confirmed that fact with about 10 secs of googling. But no, no, the poor defenceless nonscientists must be told of everything correctly by scientists first time!

Honestly, if you don't want to be treated like kids...

My guess would be because it's easier to dupe the common man by showing a poor polar bear trapped on an ice floe, than it is to dupe him with a vapor chamber.

Excuse me? DUPING?

Water expands when over 4 degrees C, AV. That's the reason why the seas are going to rise, and adding to the amount of liquid water will enhance that.

Now, you can either retract your error, or you can keep on slandering people.

Once again, I strongly recommend you do the former.

 

[AV1611VET]

Water expands when over 4 degrees C, AV. That's the reason why the seas are going to rise, and adding to the amount of liquid water will enhance that.

Um ... if you hold an ice cube over a flame, the ice cube will begin melting, yet retain the same temperature.

I don't know how that works, but it does.

In addition, just how much energy is needed to raise the entire oceans of the earth 4[sup]0[/sup]C?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the oceans are going to start expanding until the final drop of water at the bottom of the Mariana Trench raises 4[sup]0[/sup]?

 

[canukian]

Oh, way to shift the blame there. I confirmed that fact with about 10 secs of googling. But no, no, the poor defenceless nonscientists must be told of everything correctly by scientists first time!

Honestly, if you don't want to be treated like kids...



Excuse me? DUPING?

Water expands when over 4 degrees C, AV. That's the reason why the seas are going to rise, and adding to the amount of liquid water will enhance that.

Now, you can either retract your error, or you can keep on slandering people.

Once again, I strongly recommend you do the former.

WikiAnswers - Why water expands below 4 degree celsius

 

[Cabal]

WikiAnswers - Why water expands below 4 degree celsius

I said OVER 4 degrees, canukian.

Yes, water contracts when heated, but only up to the 4 degree mark. After that, it acts like a normal material and expands when heated.

 

[plindboe]

I'm talking about all the ice melting in a very short period of time --- not over decades.

All the ice melting in a short period of time would be magic, and has nothing to do with global warming. Global warming models predict that much ice will melt over decades/centuries.

Once again, should all the ice and snow on the planet melt today, the level of the ocean would be lower tomorrow.

No, the rate of melting wouldn't change anything. If the ice on land melts (in seconds or over centuries), the water will flow into the ocean and raise sea levels.

In my opinion.

Yes.

It's basic science.

No.

Peter

 

[canukian]

I said OVER 4 degrees, canukian.

Yes, water contracts when heated, but only up to the 4 degree mark. After that, it acts like a normal material and expands when heated.

well this shows water does not expand below 4 degrees. so this shows you were wrong.

WikiAnswers - Why water expands below 4 degree celsius

 

[Cabal]

Um ... if you hold an ice cube over a flame, the ice cube will begin melting, yet retain the same temperature.

I don't know how that works, but it does.

Specific latent heat of melting. A certain amount of heat must be supplied, which goes into changing state from solid to liquid. That's only for state changes though. Water at 4 degrees C is well into the liquid state, so this does not apply here.

In addition, just how much energy is needed to raise the entire oceans of the earth 4[sup]0[/sup]C?

Well, that's a rather complicated task but here are some figures (probably not exact, as salt and mineral content might tweak this somewhat).

Energy needed to raise temperature of 1kg of water 1 degree C = approx 4 kilojoules

Energy needed to melt 1kg of ice = 334 kJ

Solar irradiance per square metre = 1.3 kJ

And don't forget currents....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the oceans are going to start expanding until the final drop of water at the bottom of the Mariana Trench raises 4[sup]0[/sup]?

Nope. The continuum doesn't need to all be at uniform temperature before it starts expanding.

 

[Cabal]

well this shows water does not expand below 4 degrees. so this shows you were wrong.

WikiAnswers - Why water expands below 4 degree celsius

Erm....no, it doesn't.

I never claimed water doesn't expand BELOW 4 degrees (i.e. water temp < 4 deg C).

I claimed that water begins expanding again once it gets OVER 4 degrees (i.e. water temp > 4 deg C).

I.e. AV's claim that liquid water has less volume than the ice it came from is an insufficient picture. Water above 4 deg C will and does expand. This will contribute to rising waters.

 

[canukian]

All the ice melting in a short period of time would be magic, and has nothing to do with global warming. Global warming models predict that much ice will melt over decades/centuries.
No, the rate of melting wouldn't change anything. If the ice on land melts (in seconds or over centuries), the water will flow into the ocean and raise sea levels.

hey you, peter. isnt it obvious the melting is from the little ice age?

The Little Ice Age was a time of cooler climate in most parts of the world. Although there is some disagreement about exactly when the Little Ice Age started, records suggest that temperatures began cooling around 1250 A.D. The coldest time was during the 16th and 17th Centuries. By 1850 the climate began to warm.

The Little Ice Age

 

[canukian]

Erm....no, it doesn't.

I never claimed water doesn't expand BELOW 4 degrees (i.e. water temp < 4 deg C).

I claimed that water begins expanding again once it gets OVER 4 degrees (i.e. water temp > 4 deg C).

I.e. AV's claim that liquid water has less volume than the ice it came from is an insufficient picture. Water above 4 deg C will and does expand. This will contribute to rising waters.

i cant find where it says water expands above 4. show me.

 

[Thistlethorn]

hey you, peter. isnt it obvious the melting is from the little ice age?



The Little Ice Age

Why would it be obvious given the fact that we know why the ice is melting, and it has nothing to do with the "Little Ice Age"?

By the way, didn't you just make the (wrong) argument that the ice isn't melting?

 

[plindboe]

the sea level is rising, the ice is melting, because of all the ice produced in the little ice age.

In other words, ice is melting because it used to be colder. An obvious and entirely superfluous statement.

nothing to do with man made warming.

When you don't support statements you're merely airing an opinion. It is not interesting.

Peter

 

[canukian]

Why would it be obvious given the fact that we know why the ice is melting, and it has nothing to do with the "Little Ice Age"?

By the way, didn't you just make the (wrong) argument that the ice isn't melting?

the cold temps of tlia bound up alotta ice. when tlia ended, the ice started melting, raising sea levels.

 

[Cabal]

i cant find where it says water expands above 4. show me.

Well, it won't in the article you quoted...

Water - Thermal Properties

"Thermal expansion from 4 oC to 100 oC - 4.2x10-2"

 

[Thistlethorn]

the cold temps of tlia bound up alotta ice. when tlia ended, the ice started melting, raising sea levels.

No, scientists tell us that increased green-house gases raises the temperature, melting the ice. The Little Ice Age has nothing to do with it, and wasn't even a prominent feature in the temperature record. It was entirely a local event, given that the data supporting it was almost all from England.

 

[plindboe]

Then why don't the doomsday scientists mention that,

They do. Just because you don't listen, doesn't mean no one is talking.

instead of whining about ice and snow melting?

It's not an either/or. There are many factors involved.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the oceans are going to start expanding until the final drop of water at the bottom of the Mariana Trench raises 4[sup]0[/sup]?

Why would a drop of water in the Atlantic Ocean care about the temperature of a drop of water in the bottom of the Mariana Trench? Are you saying that they communicate with each other?

Peter

 

[Ayersy]

Isis, of course it's possible for something to be perfect. God is perfect. God created us in his image, so we're perfect. Well, Men are at least... it was a silly girl like you and me that sinned and ruined the perfection God created here on earth. Sometimes I wish I could go back and punch Eve in the face. What kind of person would curse us like that? But that wouldn't be the Christian thing for me to do! I'll keep following God's will and spreading his love so that we can all be saved and be accepted into Jesus' arms when the rapture comes!

Seriously...not a poe?!

 

[pgp_protector]

Seriously...not a poe?!

You should read some of their other post in the gaming or fasting sections

 

[canukian]

In other words, ice is melting because it used to be colder. An obvious and entirely superfluous statement.

When you don't support statements you're merely airing an opinion. It is not interesting.

it is not a superfluous statement, it relates preciecly to the subject at hand, rising sea levels.
(oooo, 2 whole centimetres in 130 years so what) the reason for rising sea levels is the little ice ages' sharply unusually cold temps built up allota ice. sure its obvious, so why would anyone think it was corbon dioxide?

yes it is warmer. it was warmer than it is now in the medieval warm period.
the little ice age was caused by very low sunspot activity, this was on the heels of the medeilive warm period the little ice age and the MWP are born out by tree rings and sediment deposits in water bodies world wide.
that you cant seem to grap what is so obvious is boring.