Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath

Leaf473 said:

Brother, have all humans throughout history known about the international date line and Jerusalem?

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Brother, they have known about His rest on the seventh day because God has made himself available to all who seek Him from the beginning. There is evidence in His word that people pleased God in Enoch as the Hebrews passage tells us below. Perhaps you will better understand the significance of this evidence if I convince you that the fourth commandment is the most important of all the others because of what it does for us.


It is evidence that God "exists"! The importance of believing that God "exists" is made clear in the next passage. You must have realized by now that without God all our hopes of life beyond death are useless because we do not have access to the tree of life. The more convinced you are that God "exists", the easier it will be to obey His eleven commandments. In the fourth commandment, God has given evidence that He "exists".


United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

guevaraj said:

Brother, they have known about His rest on the seventh day because God has made himself available to all who seek Him from the beginning.

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Does that include telling all humans who truly seek Him about the seventh day?

guevaraj said:

There is evidence in His word that people pleased God in Enoch as the Hebrews passage tells us below. Perhaps you will better understand the significance of this evidence if I convince you that the fourth commandment is the most important of all the others because of what it does for us.

Then Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made to meet the needs of people, and not people to meet the requirements of the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even over the Sabbath!” (Mark 2:27-28 NLT)​

It is evidence that God "exists"! The importance of believing that God "exists" is made clear in the next passage. You must have realized by now that without God all our hopes of life beyond death are useless because we do not have access to the tree of life. The more convinced you are that God "exists", the easier it will be to obey His eleven commandments. In the fourth commandment, God has given evidence that He "exists".

It was by faith that Enoch was taken up to heaven without dying—“he disappeared, because God took him.” For before he was taken up, he was known as a person who pleased God. And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him. (Hebrews 11:5-6 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

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My brother, are you saying that all people who have truly sought God throughout history have learned about the seventh day?

Leaf473 said:

I'm not playing

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Well You are not serious. If you were, your answer below would not be

Leaf473 said:

Are you referring to this question?

If so, then Romans 14:1 says
One man esteems one day as more important. Another esteems every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind

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Because 14:1 in context to verse 2 does not say that.

Rom 14:1 Now receive the one who is weak in the faith, and do not have disputes over differing opinions.
Rom 14:2 One person believes in eating everything, but the weak person eats only vegetables.

Leaf473 said:

Are you referring to this question?

If so, then Romans 14:1 says
One man esteems one day as more important. Another esteems every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind

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Rom 14:1 And receive him who is weak in the faith—not to determinations of reasonings;
Rom 14:1 And receive the one who is weak in the faith, not to judgments of your thoughts.
Rom 14:1 Now receive the one who is weak in the faith, and do not have disputes over differing opinions.


Differing opinions, Reasonings, thoughts?


What is differing opinions?

In other words, Reasonings or thoughts of what?


Verse 2 answers this and sets the context

Rom 14:2 One person believes in eating everything, but the weak person eats only vegetables.

No where in Scripture is it commanded ever that we only eat vegetables, So opinions from what?

HIM said:

Rom 14:1 Now receive the one who is weak in the faith, and do not have disputes over differing opinions.
Rom 14:2 One person believes in eating everything, but the weak person eats only vegetables.


Rom 14:1 And receive him who is weak in the faith—not to determinations of reasonings;
Rom 14:1 And receive the one who is weak in the faith, not to judgments of your thoughts.
Rom 14:1 Now receive the one who is weak in the faith, and do not have disputes over differing opinions.


Differing opinions, Reasonings, thoughts?


What is differing opinions?

In other words, Reasonings or thoughts of what?


Verse 2 answers this and sets the context

Rom 14:2 One person believes in eating everything, but the weak person eats only vegetables.

No where in Scripture is it commanded ever that we only eat vegetables, So opinions from what?

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Dear Him,

The reason some Christians in the Roman Empire ate only vegetables is because the Romans didn’t normally offer vegetables to their gods. Therefore, a Christian that only ate vegetables was fairly sure that they were not eating anything that had been offered to idols. In Paul’s mind, they were weak in faith in this matter, but Paul also referred to different opinions on holy days. The overall theme of Romans 14 is not to judge brothers and sisters in Christ if they are doing whatever in an effort to please God. It is also assumed that only rational people of sound mind are under consideration. A person who says “God told me to murder so-and-so” is not included.

HIM said:

Rom 14:1 Now receive the one who is weak in the faith, and do not have disputes over differing opinions.
Rom 14:2 One person believes in eating everything, but the weak person eats only vegetables.


Rom 14:1 And receive him who is weak in the faith—not to determinations of reasonings;
Rom 14:1 And receive the one who is weak in the faith, not to judgments of your thoughts.
Rom 14:1 Now receive the one who is weak in the faith, and do not have disputes over differing opinions.


Differing opinions, Reasonings, thoughts?


What is differing opinions?

In other words, Reasonings or thoughts of what?


Verse 2 answers this and sets the context

Rom 14:2 One person believes in eating everything, but the weak person eats only vegetables.

No where in Scripture is it commanded ever that we only eat vegetables, So opinions from what?

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This is very true, and I believe to be an accurate understanding of Paul's teaching in Romans 14. Unusually accurate I might add. Good for you Him. These men are leaving a life "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience". They are "growing" in the knowledge of God but still had some traditions and/or beliefs, AKA "Opinions", from their past life to sort out. Paul is teaching the Church of God to have patience and compassion while these men "Seek the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness". (After all, they were the same way at some point, "strangers in the land of Egypt") I believe these are the "Newborn Babes". "As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby". As they grow in the knowledge of their Father, they will learn "What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?". They will learn and most importantly, "be convinced in their own minds", what days, if any, that God esteems above other days, what God's instruction for his People concerning what is food and what is not. In this way they are "Learned of the Father", as opposed to following the traditions, philosophies, or as your translation puts it, "Opinions" of other religious men.

There is nothing in Paul's letter here that implies Paul is teaching men to ignore, disobey or otherwise reject God's Instruction in righteousness, in my view.

Very good Post Him.

HIM said:

Well You are not serious. If you were, your answer below would not be

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HIM said:

Because 14:1 in context to verse 2 does not say that.

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What does it say, as you read it?

A proverb I read this morning

HIM said:

Rom 14:1 Now receive the one who is weak in the faith, and do not have disputes over differing opinions.
Rom 14:2 One person believes in eating everything, but the weak person eats only vegetables.


Rom 14:1 And receive him who is weak in the faith—not to determinations of reasonings;
Rom 14:1 And receive the one who is weak in the faith, not to judgments of your thoughts.
Rom 14:1 Now receive the one who is weak in the faith, and do not have disputes over differing opinions.


Differing opinions, Reasonings, thoughts?


What is differing opinions?

In other words, Reasonings or thoughts of what?


Verse 2 answers this and sets the context

Rom 14:2 One person believes in eating everything, but the weak person eats only vegetables.

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HIM said:

No where in Scripture is it commanded ever that we only eat vegetables,

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That's true. However, it may have been a common Jewish practice at the time as a way of avoiding most unclean foods. I heard an observant Jewish person say something similar -
"If you want to have me over for dinner and are wondering what to serve, just have salad stuff available. I'll eat that )

HIM said:

...So opinions from what?

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People have differing opinions over which parts of the law to keep. That was true in the early church

Today, people have differing opinions about food and, much more commonly, a special day.

Food and special days are the two things Romans 14 talks about

It's an interesting situation; people just don't seem that interested in discussing the instruction from the law about not wearing blended fabrics

Leaf473 said:

"If you want to have me over for dinner and are wondering what to serve, just have salad stuff available. I'll eat that )

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2414 Owens rd. Ashland Al. 36251.

Leaf473 said:

It's an interesting situation; people just don't seem that interested in discussing the instruction from the law about not wearing blended fabrics

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He that has been baptized into Christ has put on Christ.

Leaf473 said:

Food and special days are the two things Romans 14 talks about

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Yes it does. But it is not speaking on what God had made unclean, unfit to be eaten. The word there translated unclean in the KJV is the word Kionos in the Greek. It is contrasted against the word for unclean in Peter’s vision in Acts 10.

HIM said:

The message is a
Paraphrase. And not even a good one. That text is definitely not speaking of the Sabbath.

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Hi Him, You may be very much a scholar, I would not deny that. You state rom 14: 5 doesn't mean what it plainly states and not provide some proof. Could you possibly be wrong? Are all of the translations below wrong? Why should anyone believe your analysis?


KJ21
One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
ASV
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind.
AMP
One person regards one day as better [or more important] than another, while another regards every day [the same as any other]. Let everyone be fully convinced (assured, satisfied) in his own mind.
AMPC
One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems all days alike [sacred]. Let everyone be fully convinced (satisfied) in his own mind.
BRG
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
CSB
One person judges one day to be more important than another day. Someone else judges every day to be the same. Let each one be fully convinced in his own mind.
CEB
One person considers some days to be more sacred than others, while another person considers all days to be the same. Each person must have their own convictions.
CJB
One person considers some days more holy than others, while someone else regards them as being all alike. What is important is for each to be fully convinced in his own mind.
CEV
Some of the Lord's followers think one day is more important than another. Others think all days are the same. But each of you should make up your own mind.
DARBY
One man esteems day more than day; another esteems every day [alike]. Let each be fully persuaded in his own mind.
DLNT
For one judges a day beyond a day, but another judges every day alike. Let each one be fully-convinced in his own mind.
DRA
For one judgeth between day and day: and another judgeth every day: let every man abound in his own sense.
ERV
Some people might believe that one day is more important than another. And others might believe that every day is the same. Everyone should be sure about their beliefs in their own mind.
EASY
Some people think that certain days are special and more important than other days. Other people think that all days are the same. Each person should decide what seems right to him.
EHV
One person values one day above another. Another person values every day the same. Let each person be fully convinced in his own mind.
ESV
One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
ESVUK
One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
EXB
Some ·think [decide; judge] that one day is more ·important [sacred; holy] than another, and others think that every day is the same [C the issue is whether to observe the Jewish Sabbath]. Let all be ·sure [fully convinced] ·in their own mind [according to their convictions/conscience].
GNV
This man esteemeth one day above another day, and another man counteth every day alike: let every man be fully persuaded in his mind.
GW
One person decides that one day is holier than another. Another person decides that all days are the same. Every person must make his own decision.
GNT
Some people think that a certain day is more important than other days, while others think that all days are the same. We each should firmly make up our own minds.
HCSB
One person considers one day to be above another day. Someone else considers every day to be the same. Each one must be fully convinced in his own mind.
ICB
One person thinks that one day is more important than another. And someone else thinks that every day is the same. Each one should be sure in his own mind.
ISV
One person decides in favor of one day over another, while another person decides that all days are the same. Let each one be fully convinced in his own mind:
PHILLIPS
Again, one man thinks some days of more importance than others. Another man considers them all alike. Let every one be definite in his own convictions. If a man specially observes one particular day, he does so “to God”. The man who eats, eats “to God”, for he thanks God for the food. The man who fasts also does it “to God”, for he thanks God for the benefits of fasting. The truth is that we neither live nor die as self-contained units. At every turn life links us to God, and when we die we come face to face with him. In life or death we are in the hands of God. Christ lived and died that he might be the Lord in both life and death.
JUB
Also, some make a difference between one day and another; others esteem every day alike. Let each one be fully persuaded in his own soul.
KJV
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
AKJV
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
LSB
One person judges one day above another, another judges every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
LEB
One person prefers one day over another day, and another person regards every day alike. Each one must be fully convinced in his own mind.
TLB
Some think that Christians should observe the Jewish holidays as special days to worship God, but others say it is wrong and foolish to go to all that trouble, for every day alike belongs to God. On questions of this kind everyone must decide for himself.
MSG
Or, say, one person thinks that some days should be set aside as holy and another thinks that each day is pretty much like any other. There are good reasons either way. So, each person is free to follow the convictions of conscience.
MEV
One man judges one day above another; another judges every day alike. Let each one be fully persuaded in his own mind.
MOUNCE
For one person regards one day more sacred than another, while another person regards all days the same. Each person must be fully convinced in · his own mind.
NOG
One person decides that one day is holier than another. Another person decides that all days are the same. Every person must make his own decision.
NABRE
[For] one person considers one day more important than another, while another person considers all days alike. Let everyone be fully persuaded in his own mind.
NASB
One person values one day over another, another values every day the same. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
NASB1995
One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
NCB
One person may consider one day to be more sacred than another, while another may judge all days to be alike. Let everyone be convinced in his own beliefs.
NCV
Some think that one day is more important than another, and others think that every day is the same. Let all be sure in their own mind.
NET
One person regards one day holier than other days, and another regards them all alike. Each must be fully convinced in his own mind.
NIRV
One person considers one day to be more holy than another. Another person thinks all days are the same. Each of them should be absolutely sure in their own mind.
NIV
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.
NIVUK
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.
NKJV
One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
NLV
One man thinks one day is more important than another. Another man thinks every day is the same. Every man must be sure in his own mind.
NLT
In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable.

HIM said:

Yes it does. But it is not speaking on what God had made unclean, unfit to be eaten. The word there translated unclean in the KJV is the word Kionos in the Greek. It is contrasted against the word for unclean in Peter’s vision in Acts 10.

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I really don't care what the Israelites could and could not eat because the covenant that contained that law is null and void.

Bob S said:

Hi Him,

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Hi Bob!

Bob S said:

You may be very much a scholar, I would not deny that. You state rom 14: 5 doesn't mean what it plainly states and not provide some proof. Could you possibly be wrong?

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No, the word holy is not in the Greek.

Bob S said:

Are all of the translations below wrong? Why should anyone believe your analysis?

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If they have the word holy in it.

HIM said:

He that has been baptized into Christ has put on Christ.

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Does it follow that we are free to set aside this commandment?

HIM said:

Yes it does. But it is not speaking on what God had made unclean, unfit to be eaten. The word there translated unclean in the KJV is the word Kionos in the Greek. It is contrasted against the word for unclean in Peter’s vision in Acts 10.

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The words I see in Acts 10 are κοινὸν and ἀκάθαρτον

Are you referring to ἀκάθαρτον?

HIM said:

Hi Bob!


No, the word holy is not in the Greek.

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HIM said:

If they have the word holy in it.

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Anyone interested may wish to see also post #239

HIM said:

Hi Bob!


No, the word holy is not in the Greek.

If they have the word holy in it.

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Out of the 65 or so versions I copied only 2 used the word Holy. a couple used sacred. Your conclusion is that the verse could not have any relation to the Sabbath. You didn't give a reason why. When I asked why you answered: "no, the word holy is not in the Greek." Most all versions do not use the word holy. That doesn't seem to be a reason the verse could not mean Sabbath now does it?


One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. Rom14:5

New covenant scripture makes it very clear that Gentiles were never obligated to observe the Sabbath and the old covenant made it clear that if a gentile WANTED to become kosher they had to be circumcised. So, once again, I ask, where do we find in all of scripture where Gentiles have ever been commanded to keep holy any day and not just the Sabbath? You and all the other Sabbath observing posters keep telling the non observers we are wrong for not being observant yet have never answered my repeated question.

Bob S said:

Out of the 65 or so versions I copied only 2 used the word Holy. a couple used sacred. Your conclusion is that the verse could not have any relation to the Sabbath. You didn't give a reason why. When I asked why you answered: "no, the word holy is not in the Greek." Most all versions do not use the word holy. That doesn't seem to be a reason the verse could not mean Sabbath now does it?


One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. Rom14:5

New covenant scripture makes it very clear that Gentiles were never obligated to observe the Sabbath and the old covenant made it clear that if a gentile WANTED to become kosher they had to be circumcised. So, once again, I ask, where do we find in all of scripture where Gentiles have ever been commanded to keep holy any day and not just the Sabbath? You and all the other Sabbath observing posters keep telling the non observers we are wrong for not being observant yet have never answered my repeated question.

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I’m one of the Sabbath keeping posters, and I wrote that it is a good idea whether you think it is Sunday or Saturday, but I was clear that one should not judge and let a person follow their own conviction.

By the way, most Messianic Jews and Christians I have known say they separate “the sacred and mundane” in English, rather than “holy and unholy.”