• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Why Vaccinations Shouldn't be Optional

PsychoSarah

Chaotic Neutral
Jan 13, 2014
20,522
2,609
✟102,963.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Why wouldn't you? Knowing that the tests aren't available to them, choosing to create a child is functionally the same as refusing the tests. The newborn is in the same situation.
It sincerely is not the same thing. Any given time a person conceives a child, there is a chance said child will not be healthy, regardless of family history or medical care. That's a fact of life. To be a responsible parent is to do everything one CAN to ensure their child is as healthy as possible.

-_- why do you keep wanting to associate my position with class discrimination? Can't provide treatment and won't provide treatment are not one and the same.

Perhaps I should explain that motivation impacts the morality of choices with identical outcomes. So, let's say Jim Jimson kills another person. I present two situations for this action:
1. The person Jim killed attacked him without provocation, and he killed him to protect his own life.
2. Jim felt like killing someone today.

The way you are debating would suggest that Jim's motivation is irrelevant because the outcome is the same; the death of a person. Thus, regardless of motivation, the morality (or immorality) of the act does not change.

However, I would consider the motivation to be what tips the ethical scales, so to speak. I would not demand that Jim spare his attacker at the risk of his own life, and thus would not condemn his actions in that situation nearly as much as I would if he killed that person on a whim.

Same applies to vaccines, in my opinion. A person not vaccinating their child because they can't do it is not being equally irresponsible and immoral as a person not vaccinating their child because they don't want to.


Finding the source of our disagreement is a great means of connecting with other people, even if neither of us change our minds. I do not intend to go back and forth forever, and I myself can see some of the questionable implications of my own position. I do value bodily autonomy quite highly, and to me, it ends exactly where it starts to impact to bodies of other people. Unfortunately, not vaccinating does impact more than oneself. But so does not being willing to donate part of your liver to save a stranger's life. The defining distinctions between those situations is that the former results in no harm to oneself, and the other does. The complications of vaccines are too minor compared to the benefits to justify not getting them, while taking out a third of your liver is much more dangerous and does harm your health a bit for the sake of another person.

So, there's where I draw the line, so to speak. You can make health choices that affect only you, and you are not obligated to sacrifice your own health for the sake of others. Since getting vaccinated improve's the health of individuals and society as a whole, it should be a simple obligation.
 
Upvote 0

Allandavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 30, 2016
8,056
6,929
72
Sydney
✟230,565.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
If God is with you; why would you need a vaccine?

I'm so glad that I live in a country founded on protecting my unalienable God given right to be secure in my person.

Please keep your unvaccinated body in America...please don’t plan on any Australian vacations...thanks.
 
Reactions: Skreeper
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
39,759
29,422
Pacific Northwest
✟823,633.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
If God is with you; why would you need a vaccine?

What is it that Jesus said to the devil when the devil sought to tempt Him? Oh right, "Do not put the Lord thy God to the test."

Get yourself and your children vaccinated.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Reactions: Skreeper
Upvote 0

The~Cerberus~Infinite

Active Member
Nov 19, 2017
132
49
38
Americant
✟1,091.00
Country
American Samoa
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Private
So, we can have the scientific debates all day long. But if agents of the state come at me, or god help them, my family, with needles in hands, they'll be met with lead. This is non-negotiable. So, argue about it all you want. Just understand, mandatory vaccines = mandatory civil war. And I don't think they've yet invented a vaccine for lead poisoning. Not sure you'd want it if they did.
 
Upvote 0

War_Eagle

Active Member
Nov 11, 2017
204
91
56
Lake Worth
✟24,980.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married

Then, by all means, get all the vaccines you want. Just don't tell us what to do with our bodies.
 
Upvote 0

The~Cerberus~Infinite

Active Member
Nov 19, 2017
132
49
38
Americant
✟1,091.00
Country
American Samoa
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Private

In a day and age where people cry about their right to have their existence validated for their gender pronoun, you're literally saying I don't have a right to exist without getting your number of approved shots. Like I'm livestock.

You, and what army? That's all I want to know.
 
Reactions: ananda
Upvote 0

Archie Dupont

Active Member
Nov 25, 2017
80
25
41
Houston
✟25,319.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
In Relationship

I clicked this link with interest. Until I read the title of the site. Not a scientific article, not a news segment by a prominent newspaper. No, a site that uses the words "hidden truth" in it's slogan. Give me a break.

A site that is called 'Trace Amounts' by definition is biased, and can therefore not be a valid source of scientific information
 
Upvote 0

Archie Dupont

Active Member
Nov 25, 2017
80
25
41
Houston
✟25,319.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
In Relationship
Then, by all means, get all the vaccines you want. Just don't tell us what to do with our bodies.

The problem is when you get babies. I imagine you would want the same for your baby as for yourself. So if your baby is walking around school unvaccinated, your baby will probably still not get the disease due to herd immunity (you can thank us for that later). However, your baby is actively endangering our babies, and for that we don't thank you at all.

Your body your choice fair enough, but don't drag your own (and our) child down with you, just because you are enthusiastic about conspiracy theories. Are you actually willing to roll the dice with the life of your child with that?
 
Upvote 0

Archie Dupont

Active Member
Nov 25, 2017
80
25
41
Houston
✟25,319.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
In Relationship
If God is with you; why would you need a vaccine?

If God is with you; why would you stop at the edge of the cliff?
If God is with you; why would you need to wait for the green light?
If God is with you; why would you drink or eat at all?
If God is with you; why would you have surgery if your appendix ruptures?
If God is with you; why would you take medicine if you are ill?
If God is with you; why would you need a vaccine?
Oh no wait that last one makes sense, God will make sure you wont get ill, just as he saves you from the fall, traffic, starvation, other disease and traumatic injury.

God watches over you, he doesn't assist you. You have a very childish type of faith if you believe God is walking next to you saving you from every little bad thing that can happen to you. God gave us the earth (and you your life) to do with it as we please. He asks us however to do it according through his teachings and moralities. He doens't interfere with our actions and the reckoning of those actions will come when you die. If anything, God will consider your refusal of a vaccine that will prolong your (and your innocent child's) life plain right stupid. Life is the most sacred thing he gave us so you better do anything to preserve it.

If you keep your belief that God will assist you with every mundane earthly problem, you better never (again) show up at the doctors for having cancer, a broken arm or a severe cold. Don't go to the police if you get robbed, attacked or otherwise mistreated. God will take care of it right?
 
Upvote 0

pat34lee

Messianic
Sep 13, 2011
11,293
2,636
61
Florida, USA
✟89,330.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
I'm not going through all of this thread or try to counter
the arguments here. Too much work. Suffice it to say that
I don't agree with many of the premises of vaccines. While
they do some good, they are like overusing antibiotics. All
that means is they are putting the problems off, maybe for
another generation, but more likely much less time.

One counter: Herd immunity from vaccines is a myth.
 
Upvote 0

pat34lee

Messianic
Sep 13, 2011
11,293
2,636
61
Florida, USA
✟89,330.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
0 evidence that vaccines are harmful, aside from as very rare side effects

If that were true, then why does the government shield vaccine
makers from lawsuits and pay off people injured by vaccines out
of our tax money instead?
National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program | Official web site of the U.S. Health Resources & Services Administration

How much was paid out and why?

"According to the CDC’s website, there are “limitations in our knowledge of the risks associated with vaccines” and vaccinations have “the following problems”:

1. Limited understanding of biological processes that underlie adverse events
2. Incomplete and inconsistent information from individual reports
3. Poorly constructed research studies (not enough people enrolled for the period of time)
4. Inadequate systems to track vaccine side effects
5. Few experimental studies were published in the medical literature.”

The above very revealing admissions from the US Centers for Disease Control (CDC) completely undercut the pathological overconfidence exhibited in the extreme portions of the community pushing for mandatory vaccination."

Whopping Vaccine Injury Payouts for US Fiscal Year 2017 Released
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,941
11,096
okie
✟222,536.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Vaccines are indeed helpful but there are groups of anti-vaxxers who are against them so vaccinations should still be optional when it comes to freedom of choice.
They may or may not be helpful. There are currently what, over 10,000, maybe 100,000 lawsuits because of DAMAGE by them.
Just read the list of side effects THEY admit (often over 20, including death, for just one chemical drug),
then
FOR FUN, JUST FOR FUN, go read the side effects of eating a good diet.
 
Upvote 0

Rubiks

proud libtard
Aug 14, 2012
4,292
2,245
United States
✟137,866.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single

Protip: Nobody will take you seriously for using caps lock
 
Upvote 0

Rubiks

proud libtard
Aug 14, 2012
4,292
2,245
United States
✟137,866.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Vaccines are indeed helpful but there are groups of anti-vaxxers who are against them so vaccinations should still be optional when it comes to freedom of choice.

Except that freedom of choice doesn't apply when it interferes with someone else's life. Refusing to take vaccines put others' lives in jeopardy.
 
Reactions: Ada Lovelace
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,941
11,096
okie
✟222,536.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Refusing to take vaccines put others' lives in jeopardy.
Not true, no. People do not become ill due to a deficiency of some toxin manmade.
For forty years plus, from about 1935 to 1975 basically,
the medical community knew that the so-called 'safe' vaccines were what causes sids and autism, and when they admitted this and directed their recovery activity that direction, (preventing mercury and other toxicity and chelating the toxins out of the brain) , people recovered.

This is even more true today, as people everywhere are finding out, sadly usually or often too late and too few.
 
Reactions: pat34lee
Upvote 0

pat34lee

Messianic
Sep 13, 2011
11,293
2,636
61
Florida, USA
✟89,330.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
I wonder if we should have a poll to see how
many people who want to make vaccinations
mandatory also support abortion on demand.

After all, the abortion does not only affect the
woman. It ends a life, where vaccines cannot
be proven to do anything for anyone but the
one who is unlucky enough to receive it.
 
Upvote 0