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WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SATURDAY

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The Liturgist

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I posted evidence that by the beginning of the first century that the Sunday worship had replaced the sabbath day in post #127. This included a precise meaning of the “Lord’s day” from Revelation 1:10 as understood by the immediate post apostolic church. This is the same church that preserved the scripture testimony of the Old Testament & in the New Testament, sifted out false gnostic writings ( like pseudo gospels) and sorted worthy ( but not scriptural) writings like the Epistle of Clement, Epistles of Ignatius. It was Ignatius who testified that he was no Apostle & that helped eliminate the circulation of false writings. Clement wrote to Corinth trying to counsel some of the community of living memory that St. Paul counseled.

Revisionists can always ignore the development of the church from apostolic to post apostolic times by appropriations of what is apostolic & denying & cooption of the post apostolic.

Despite the many differences among Orthodox, Catholics, & Protestants there is general agreement in most areas on this basic history from the Patriarch of Moscow, the Vatican, & Moody College on this.

Indeed but people who deny the Sabbath are Restorationists, who tend to believe there was a Great Apostasy immediately after the last Apostle died which only ended when their denomination came into being, or else, in a few cases, that there was a persecuted cryptic church of which theirs is the heir (similiar to the Landmark Baptists). This usually involves amusing fantasies about groups which were in fact, Gnostic cults, like the Bogomils.
 
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The Liturgist

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These are interpretative leaps that scripture doesn't make. Since your interpretation defies the wide use of the term in the context of the historical early church then it begs the question what is your support outside of your personal opinion? And if no support then what is your motivation? Because all I see is someone with a strong bias who rejects reason.

Indeed, most SDAs are respectful of other denominations, and are very nice people. I don’t know why a vocal minority feel the need to do this. Some were very mean to me in another thread and would ask me loaded questions and implied I was in a state of grave sin, even after I asked them to stop, repeatedly. I’ve never in my life met an Adventist like this, and I have known a lot of Adventists, probably more than most people. So it can’t be the SDA per se that is responsible, but a small, aggressive movement among the SDA which seeks, contrary to church policy, to aggressively try and proselytize among other denominations. Even among people like me who observe the Sabbath. My mortal sin apparently is that I also worship on Sunday, which no scripture says is sinful.

I actually like the SDA Church; they run an excellent network of schools and hospitals, and along with the Catholics, Methodists, Congregationalists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Baptists and Episcopalians, were one of the great builders of universities and hospitals. And I have an excellent recording of Ukrainian and Russian sacred music by an Adventist choir which is on a par with the leading Orthodox and secular choirs of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Bulgaria (I combine all of these recordings of sacred Church Slavonic music and sleep to it, much of the time. Sometimes I sleep to Anglican music, Gregorian chant, Renaissance music, etc,).
 
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The Liturgist

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Nope. So I was right? You have no scripture do you. I am still waiting for you to show that Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" from the scriptures. Did you notice you have not provided any? I did. You should also want to get your facts right again. Revelation 1:10 does not say "Lord". Go and look up the Greek used in Revelation 1:10 - Lord's (κυριακή) day (ημέρα) means the day belonging to the Lord or the Lord's ownership of the day. The only other time this word is used is to the Lord's supper (expressing ownership). Now as posted many times now, can you prove Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" according to the scriptures? If you have no scripture just say so. This alone however and the scriptures already provided already refutes your claims here as you are trying to argue your words against God's Word.

I presented you with chapters and books of scripture in another thread and you refused to accept or engage with any of it.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Hello Imge, how can you know God through His Sabbath? I thought you'll know God by His Spirit..
Thanks for the question. How do you get to know anyone? Spending time with them. That is why the Sabbath commandment is so important. You dedicated this sacred day that He asked to Him. I get to know His Spirit on Sabbath through reading His Word, the Bible, praying, Bible studies, Church and in nature. My thoughts are dedicated to Him on His Sabbath.

We are told through scripture we know Him by keeping His commandments which includes the 4th commandment that He asked us to Remember
1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

God said the sign between Him and His people is through His Sabbath. It’s how we are sanctified Exodus 31:13 Ezekiel 20:12 The seventh day is His Holy day and the only Holy day. Exodus 20:8-11 We know that He is the Lord God through His Sabbath according to God. Sort of like when its someone’s birthday, celebrating a day before or a day after is not the same as on the actual birthday. But the Sabbath is much more important to God which is why He asked us to REMEMBER. God bless.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Our Lord never said he would be in the grave for 72 hours, and the concept of a day as 24 hours was not in the popular vernacular until very recently, decades, really.

John 11:9
Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

How many hours do you suppose Jesus thought there were in the night; in a full day?

Regarding the time of day Jesus was killed, note that the Passover was to be killed at the 'even', at the 'setting of the sun'. Methinks God was reminding the people of that when he darkened the sky for those three hours. Although he had been figuratively offered at the Passover meal with his disciples. In other words he was a good as dead.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I presented you with chapters and books of scripture in another thread and you refused to accept or engage with any of it.
No you didn't dear friend. You provided absolutely no scripture showing Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" If you disagree your very welcome to post them here as no one seems to have any scripture that shows Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day".
 
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pasifika

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Thanks for the question. How do you get to know anyone? Spending time with them. That is why the Sabbath commandment is so important. You dedicated this special day that He asked to Him. I get to know His Spirit on Sabbath through reading His Word, the Bible, praying, Bible studies, Church and in nature. My thoughts are dedicated to Him on His Sabbath.

We are told through scripture we know Him by keeping His commandments which includes the 4th commandment that He asked us to Remember
1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

God said the sign between Him and His people is through His Sabbath. It’s how we are sanctified Exodus 31:13 Ezekiel 20:12 The seventh day is His Holy day and the only Holy day. We know that He is the Lord God through His Sabbath according to God. Sort of like when its someone’s birthday, celebrating a day before or a day after is not the same as on the actual birthday. But the Sabbath is much more important to God which is why He asked us to REMEMBER. God bless.
So are you only spend time with God only on the 7th day Sabbath?
Or is it the only day you chose to spend time with Him? Or is it the only day God made available to spend time with you?
 
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pescador

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Thanks for the question. How do you get to know anyone? Spending time with them. That is why the Sabbath commandment is so important. You dedicated this special day that He asked to Him. I get to know His Spirit on Sabbath through reading His Word, the Bible, praying, Bible studies, Church and in nature. My thoughts are dedicated to Him on His Sabbath.

We are told through scripture we know Him by keeping His commandments which includes the 4th commandment that He asked us to Remember
1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

God said the sign between Him and His people is through His Sabbath. It’s how we are sanctified Exodus 31:13 Ezekiel 20:12 The seventh day is His Holy day and the only Holy day. We know that He is the Lord God through His Sabbath according to God. Sort of like when its someone’s birthday, celebrating a day before or a day after is not the same as on the actual birthday. But the Sabbath is much more important to God which is why He asked us to REMEMBER. God bless.

Suppose the birthday falls on the Sabbath? Is blowing out the candles (or making the cake) work?

God gave us the Sabbath so that we could rest one day per week, a situation unknown in early Biblical times. That doesn't mean that we must rest, as Jesus clearly showed us. To be required to rest is absurd, as Jesus showed us on several occasions.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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So are you only spend time with God only on the 7th day Sabbath?
Or is it the only day you chose to spend time with Him? Or is it the only day God made available to spend time with you?
Its the day God commanded. Exodus 20 8-11 I worship Him every day though prayer and reading His Word usually in the morning and evening and the rest of the day I work. On Sabbath the entire day is dedicated to Him from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. What about you?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Indeed, most SDAs are respectful of other denominations, and are very nice people. I don’t know why a vocal minority feel the need to do this. Some were very mean to me in another thread and would ask me loaded questions and implied I was in a state of grave sin, even after I asked them to stop, repeatedly. I’ve never in my life met an Adventist like this, and I have known a lot of Adventists, probably more than most people. So it can’t be the SDA per se that is responsible, but a small, aggressive movement among the SDA which seeks, contrary to church policy, to aggressively try and proselytize among other denominations. Even among people like me who observe the Sabbath. My mortal sin apparently is that I also worship on Sunday, which no scripture says is sinful.

I actually like the SDA Church; they run an excellent network of schools and hospitals, and along with the Catholics, Methodists, Congregationalists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Baptists and Episcopalians, were one of the great builders of universities and hospitals. And I have an excellent recording of Ukrainian and Russian sacred music by an Adventist choir which is on a par with the leading Orthodox and secular choirs of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Bulgaria (I combine all of these recordings of sacred Church Slavonic music and sleep to it, much of the time. Sometimes I sleep to Anglican music, Gregorian chant, Renaissance music, etc,).

Do you really think people posting scripture to you that might disagree with your teachings are being mean to you? Who was asking you loaded questions and does "implying" your sinning, mean that by providing you with scripture you felt these scriptures made you feel you were in a state of grave sin? Sorry I am still trying to get understand your post here dear friend as I think only the scriptures were shared with you in the other thread were they not? Why do you claim people sharing the scriptures with you are being mean and aggressive? For me sharing God's Word is a good thing. It is the standard of truth and error, sin and righteousness and we are told in the scriptures to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith or not. So we should not be afraid to come to the light of God's Word as it can guide us and help us to see if we are really in the faith or not in the faith and not following God and His Word. Not everyone we know will hear God's Word according to Jesus *Matthew 22:14. It is written however where condemnation comes from in the very Words of Jesus where He says; and this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved but he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are worked in God *John 3:19-21. God uses His Word through the Spirit *John 16:8 to call us all back to himself. Perhaps you have a misunderstanding of what was being shared with you.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Suppose the birthday falls on the Sabbath? Is blowing out the candles (or making the cake) work?

God gave us the Sabbath so that we could rest one day per week, a situation unknown in early Biblical times. That doesn't mean that we must rest, as Jesus clearly showed us. To be required to rest is absurd, as Jesus showed us on several occasions.
Actually the first verse in the commandment is:
Exodus 20 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

The Sabbath is more than a day of rest. We are told to hallow His Sabbaths. It's holy and sacred. Not working is part of it, but it more than just a day off.
 
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pasifika

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Its the day God commanded. I worship Him every day though prayer and reading His Word usually in the morning or evening and the rest of the day I work. On Sabbath the entire day is dedicated to Him from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. What about you?
Okay, then show me the command in which God said we can spend time with Him on the 7th day in the New Testament?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Okay, then show me the command in which God said we can spend time with Him on the 7th day in the New Testament?
Is there a different God in New Testament? Did Jesus not keep Sabbath and all of His Fathers commandments and told us to do the same? Did God not write His laws in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant. Why are you trying to make an argument against Gods Holy Sabbath when He gave it to us to be blessing? Do you worship Him on Sunday? If so where is the scripture for that?
 
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pasifika

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Is there a different God in New Testament? Did Jesus not keep Sabbath and all of His Fathers commandments and told us to do the same? Did God not write His laws in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant. Why are you trying to make an argument against Gods Holy Sabbath when He gave it to us to be blessing? Do you worship Him on Sunday? If so where is the scripture for that?
Yes, it's the same God...in which He didn't commanded the first mankind to keep..
The 7th day Sabbath belongs solely to Christ Not us...our Sabbath is the day called ' today'..

So I worship God anytime, anywhere, any day as long as my heart is willing...
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Yes, it's the same God...in which He didn't commanded the first mankind to keep..
The 7th day Sabbath belongs solely to Christ Not us...our Sabbath is the day called ' today'..

So I worship God anytime, anywhere, any day as long as my heart is willing...
You seemed to put your own interpretation on the Sabbath commandment. You might want to read it again.

Exodus 20 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who iswithin your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

This is just one scripture, God tells us to hallow His Sabbaths, the Sabbath was made for man which means its meant for everyone. Mark 2:27 God bless
 
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pasifika

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You seemed to put your own interpretation on the Sabbath commandment. You might want to read it again.

Exodus 20 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who iswithin your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

This is just one scripture, God tells us to hallow His Sabbaths, the Sabbath was made for man which means its meant for everyone. God bless
It wasn't spoken to the first man in creation...this 1000+ generations after creation...

You also notice, verse 10...the Seventh Day Sabbath is the Sabbath of the 'LORD'..So guess who the LORD is?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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It wasn't spoken to the first man in creation...this 1000+ generations after creation...

You also notice, verse 10...the Seventh Day Sabbath is the Sabbath of the 'LORD'..So guess who the LORD is?
The Sabbath was at Creation Genesis 2:3. Did you not read the whole verses of the 4th commandment? Typically you need to read all the verses for understanding. It’s been nice chatting with you but its late where I’m at, so bye for now.
 
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pasifika

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The Sabbath was at Creation Genesis 2:3. Did you not read the whole verses of the 4th commandment? Typically you need to read all the verses for understanding. It’s been nice chatting with you but its late where I’m at, so bye for now.
Yes of course the 7th Sabbath was from creation, because its the LORD who worked during creation...
Thanks for the discussion
 
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The Liturgist

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No you didn't dear friend. You provided absolutely no scripture showing Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" If you disagree your very welcome to post them here as no one seems to have any scripture that shows Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day".

Technically you are right; I provided scripture showing that Sunday was a holy day fit for worship, and I even provided scripture recognized as canonical by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church which commands Sunday worship.
 
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