WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SATURDAY

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes of course the 7th Sabbath was from creation, because its the LORD who worked during creation...
Thanks for the discussion

Yes, it's the same God...in which He didn't commanded the first mankind to keep..
The 7th day Sabbath belongs solely to Christ Not us...our Sabbath is the day called ' today'..

Your argument doesn't seem to be based on scriptures. The 10 commandments are not commandments for God, they are commandments for man. By your philosophy than God is telling Himself thou shalt not lie or vain His name etc. The Sabbath was made for man to keep Holy.

It's all about if you are willing to do Gods will or choose to do your own. God bless

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Technically you are right; I provided scripture showing that Sunday was a holy day fit for worship, and I even provided scripture recognized as canonical by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church which commands Sunday worship.

Actually no. You posted no scripture showing Sunday is a Holy day either.

 

[BobRyan]

Technically you are right; I provided scripture showing that Sunday was a holy day .

If you posted a scripture that said "every week day 1 is holy" or "week day 1 is a holy day" or "week day 1 is the Lord's Day" or "we worship every week day 1" - please provide the link to that post.

 

[BobRyan]

So I worship God anytime, anywhere, any day as long as my heart is willing...

As do we all .. But the question here is whether God's commandment matters when it comes to "the seventh is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" Ex 20:10 a day where no secular activity or planning is expected according to Is 58:13. A day of "holy convocation" according to Lev 23:3

 

[BobRyan]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑
Nope. So I was right? You have no scripture do you. I am still waiting for you to show that Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" from the scriptures.

I presented you with chapters and books of scripture in another thread

I for one would like to see a link to the post that has those scriptures for "week day 1 is the Lord's Day"

or "week day 1 is the Holy Day of the Lord"

 

[BobRyan]

I thought you might see what we were alluding to.
The context surrounding 3:19 in Romans would dictate that εν τω νομω should be understood that the Jews were interested, that their main focus was the Law. The fact that the clause is in the Dative Case would allow for the following translation.
Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are INTO the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Re-translating the text may not be of much help given that in context Rom 3:23 says "all have sinned" not "just Jews have sinned". The point of Rom 3 was to lump both Gentiles and Jews together as all needing salvation for all have sinned and all are condemned as sinners "under the Law"

Rom 3
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written:
“There is no righteous person, not even one;

Rom 3:19
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law none of mankind will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes knowledge of sin.

The law defines what sin is - and in Romans 1 Paul tells us that even pagans with no bible at all - are aware that they have sinned - they are condemned because sin is transgression of law whether they read that law or not.


... so then NASB/NKJV/KJV etc - do in fact get it right in Rom 3:19-20

 

[BobRyan]

Anyway, this explains the matter pretty well (and with Scriptures):

What is the Lord’s day? | GotQuestions.org

It is always nice to have various web sites that we can go read.

 

[BobRyan]

LOL We have been discussing "The Lord's Day," NOT "Lord of the Sabbath."

"Lord of the Sabbath" names a day of the week. Mark 2:28
"the Sabbath is the Holy Day of the Lord" Is 58:13 names a day of the week

Do you have a text where "Lord's Day" is naming week-day-1 so then "week-day-1 is the Lord's Day"??

 

[pasifika]

Your argument doesn't seem to be based on scriptures. The 10 commandments are not commandments for God, they are commandments for man. By your philosophy than God is telling Himself thou shalt not lie or vain His name etc. The Sabbath was made for man to keep Holy.

It's all about if you are willing to do Gods will or choose to do your own. God bless

So in your philosophy do you think man can keep God's commandments??? Can you keep God's commandments? God's commandments are holy BUT You and me are Not...Romans 7:14..the law is 'spiritual' BUT I am 'unspiritual', sold as a slave to Sin...

Romans 7:12..So then the law is holy, and the commandments is holy, righteous and good...AND...according to God We are Not righteous, good and holy...Romans 3:9-12...There is No One righteous, No one who seek God, No one who does Good etc...

God gave the commandments so Israel can see their sinful, wretched nature in order for them to seek God and Believe that He (God) can be able to fulfilled the requirements of the law that is to be Righteous...Romans 3:20..through the law we become conscious of our Sin..

For Gentile who do not have the law(written) have their conscience (thoughts) which accused them or defending them which is law for themselves...Romans 2

 

[DamianWarS]

"Lord of the Sabbath" names a day of the week. Mark 2:28
"the Sabbath is the Holy Day of the Lord" Is 58:13 names a day of the week

Do you have a text where "Lord's Day" is naming week-day-1 so then "week-day-1 is the Lord's Day"??

Lord of the Sabbath is declaring authority and it is not saying "The Lord's Day".

Is 58:13 says the "holy of YHWH" not the "holy day of the Lord". The speptuigent says the same "hagios ho theos" or "Holy of God". Day (and Lord) perhaps implied but absent and weakens this case.

I understand that abstractly the Sabbath may be called the God/YHWH/Lord's Day and there is nothing wrong with this. But as for finding a scriptural connection of Rev 1:10 use of "The Lord's Day" uniquely with the Sabbath it's speculation that is resisting historical record. It makes more sense to look at the historical use of the term to confirm its meaning than it does doing this English word search in the Bible. This is not about attacking or changing the Sabbath it is simply identifying the expression "the Lord's Day" in the context of Rev 1:10 (the only biblical reference) and consistent with the early church record points to Sunday.

 

[Lukaris]

I came across a post from an Ethiopian Orthodox Christian in an Orthodox forum. The poster says that they observe (among many Jewish traditions) the sabbath & the Sunday worship ( see #9 in the list):

Matt 5:17 - “I did not come to abolish the Law”

1. We have Ark Processions year-round
2. We abstain from all unclean food (Halal, pork, shrimp, crab, etc)
3. We do no enter church if we are unclean (men and women)
4. We wear all white shawls (Netelas) as a symbol of Christ’s Resurrection and spiritual purity
5. We have a shoeless entry (not just during communion)
6. We abstain from any modern instruments (piano, guitar, etc)
7. We have 81 books in the Bible
8. We go of Halachic Jewish Time (Fasting entry and exits are based of our sun and star movements (Twilight) and our hours are reversed (12=6, 9=3)
9. We observe Friday evening and Saturday as the Sabbath (in addition to Sunday)
10. Women after giving birth have to wait 40 days or 80 days to enter church. ( Lev 12)

The EOTC is the only orthodox nation who incorporates 4000 year old Jewish customs (Judeo-Christianity) and Jewish forms of worship and tradition into its faith.

While other orthodox nations (Egypt, Armenia, Syrian, Indian, Greece, Russia, etc) were worshiping pagens and practicing cults , Ethiopia was the only to- be orthodox nation that was strictly observing Judaism and worshiping the God of Israel. 2000 years of Judaism and 2000 years of Christianity is the history of Ethiopia. We were the only ones that came into Christianity from its former faith, hence why we have stricter laws and ways of worship.

 

[pasifika]

As do we all .. But the question here is whether God's commandment matters when it comes to "the seventh is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" Ex 20:10 a day where no secular activity or planning is expected according to Is 58:13. A day of "holy convocation" according to Lev 23:3

Well, unless you can prove that God spoke to All mankind from the beginning to keep His 7th day Sabbath?

And also show me that OT (law & Prophets) writings were given to Gentile Nations Not just Israel before the time of Jesus?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So in your philosophy do you think man can keep God's commandments??? Can you keep God's commandments? God's commandments are holy BUT You and me are Not...Romans 7:14..the law is 'spiritual' BUT I am 'unspiritual', sold as a slave to Sin...

Romans 7:12..So then the law is holy, and the commandments is holy, righteous and good...AND...according to God We are Not righteous, good and holy...Romans 3:9-12...There is No One righteous, No one who seek God, No one who does Good etc...

God gave the commandments so Israel can see their sinful, wretched nature in order for them to seek God and Believe that He (God) can be able to fulfilled the requirements of the law that is to be Righteous...Romans 3:20..through the law we become conscious of our Sin..

For Gentile who do not have the law(written) have their conscience (thoughts) which accused them or defending them which is law for themselves...Romans 2

It seems like your argument keeps changing, but let me ask you this question- do you think God is greater than our sin? Or do you think sin is greater than our God? If we are willing to obey Him and want to, He gives us the Holy Spirit to help keep His commandments John 14 15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Apparently, there are some who do keep his commandments according to scriptures.

Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

The question is are you willing to do His will?

 

[BobRyan]

So I worship God anytime, anywhere, any day as long as my heart is willing...

As do we all .. But the question here is whether God's commandment matters when it comes to "the seventh is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" Ex 20:10 a day where no secular activity or planning is expected according to Is 58:13. A day of "holy convocation" according to Lev 23:3

Well, unless you can prove that God spoke to All mankind from the beginning to keep His 7th day Sabbath?

And also show me that OT (law & Prophets) writings were given to Gentile Nations Not just Israel before the time of Jesus?

Isaiah 56:6-8 makes it clear that Sabbath keeping gentiles are specifically singled out for blessing.
Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.

Mark 2:27 "Sabbath was made for MANKIND"

Matthew 19 Jesus tells us to "KEEP the Commandments"

Which includes that Law where as Paul reminds us - the "first commandment with a promise" is the 5th Commandment.

 

[BobRyan]

I came across a post from an Ethiopian Orthodox Christian in an Orthodox forum. The poster says that they observe (among many Jewish traditions) the sabbath & the Sunday worship ( see #9 in the list):

Matt 5:17 - “I did not come to abolish the Law”

1. We have Ark Processions year-round
2. We abstain from all unclean food (Halal, pork, shrimp, crab, etc)
3. We do no enter church if we are unclean (men and women)
4. We wear all white shawls (Netelas) as a symbol of Christ’s Resurrection and spiritual purity
5. We have a shoeless entry (not just during communion)
6. We abstain from any modern instruments (piano, guitar, etc)
7. We have 81 books in the Bible
8. We go of Halachic Jewish Time (Fasting entry and exits are based of our sun and star movements (Twilight) and our hours are reversed (12=6, 9=3)
9. We observe Friday evening and Saturday as the Sabbath (in addition to Sunday)
10. Women after giving birth have to wait 40 days or 80 days to enter church. ( Lev 12)

The EOTC is the only orthodox nation who incorporates 4000 year old Jewish customs (Judeo-Christianity) and Jewish forms of worship and tradition into its faith.

While other orthodox nations (Egypt, Armenia, Syrian, Indian, Greece, Russia, etc) were worshiping pagens and practicing cults , Ethiopia was the only to- be orthodox nation that was strictly observing Judaism and worshiping the God of Israel. 2000 years of Judaism and 2000 years of Christianity is the history of Ethiopia. We were the only ones that came into Christianity from its former faith, hence why we have stricter laws and ways of worship.

Thanks for sharing that

There was a time on CF when my signature line said this -

=============================

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm all TEN of the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

 

[pasifika]

It seems like your argument keeps changing, but let me ask you this question- do you think God is greater than our sin? Or do you think sin is greater than our God? If we are willing to obey Him and want to, He gives us the Holy Spirit to help keep His commandments John 14 15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Apparently, there are some who do keep his commandments according to scriptures.

Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

The question is are you willing to do His will?

Hello, how can my argument keeps changing?

Yes, God is greater than our Sins, thats why the Good news was given to All mankind so they can believe in Him...Not the law ( which was added later at time of Moses)

John 14:15 is referring to obedience to His teaching.."Anyone who loves me obey my teaching" John 14:23

So can you show me in any of Jesus teaching affirming the church to keep the 7th day Sabbath?

 

[pasifika]

As do we all .. But the question here is whether God's commandment matters when it comes to "the seventh is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" Ex 20:10 a day where no secular activity or planning is expected according to Is 58:13. A day of "holy convocation" according to Lev 23:3



Isaiah 56:6-8 makes it clear that Sabbath keeping gentiles are specifically singled out for blessing.
Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.

Mark 2:27 "Sabbath was made for MANKIND"

Matthew 19 Jesus tells us to "KEEP the Commandments"

Which includes that Law where as Paul reminds us - the "first commandment with a promise" is the 5th Commandment.

Hello Bob, the 7 th day Sabbath commandment was given specifically to Israel in Sinai Exodus 20..There is No such commandment for mankind regarding 7th day Sabbath..

God's Sabbath can Only be kept when we Believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ...Hebrews 4

So Isaiah is speaking about those who keep the Sabbath through believing in the Gospel...

Yes, the Sabbath was made for man...Only if man 'Believe' then he will enter...

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob, the 7 th day Sabbath commandment was given specifically to Israel in Sinai Exodus 20

1. The Ten Commandments are listed in Exodus 20 ... not just the 4th commandment.
2. Jer 31:31-34 the New Covenant - is given just to Israel in Judah - unchanged in Heb 8:6-12. Because we are Israel according to the end of Romans 2.

3. The fact that the entirety of the Ten Commandments is included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the New Covenant is a Bible fact admitted to by both sides of that debate.

..There is No such commandment for mankind regarding 7th day Sabbath..

Isaiah 66:23 "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"
Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was made for MANKIND not mankind MADE for the Sabbath"

So Isaiah is speaking about those who keep the Sabbath through believing in the Gospel...

1. Only ONE Gospel - Gal 1:6-9
2. That Gospel was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8

All TEN of God's TEN Commandments apply to all mankind -- for the lost they are the law that condemns mankind as sinners Rom 3:19-20, Rom 3:23


For the saved - they are written on the heart and mind Jer 31:31-34, Hebrews 8:6-12, Rom 3:31

 

[BobRyan]

John 14:15 is referring to obedience to His teaching..

John 14:15 "If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"

Matt 19:17...
if you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?”
And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not give false testimony; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

Heb 8:6-12 tells us that it is Christ speaking His Commandments at Sinai

Which includes the TEN where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment according to Paul in Eph 6:1-2.

And also includes commandments not listed in this post like..
"do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7

 

[SabbathBlessings]

John 14:15 "If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"

Matt 19:17...
if you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?”
And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not give false testimony; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

Heb 8:6-12 tells us that it is Christ speaking His Commandments at Sinai

Which includes the TEN where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment according to Paul in Eph 6:1-2.

And also includes commandments not listed in this post like..
"do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20