Why seek "God"?

[Wordkeeper]

Why?

SIGH. You are treating the headache and missing the tumor.

All that needs to be known about God and what he requires of man can be seen in Nature .

It seems that you are inferring "God" from Nature. When I see Nature, I think "Nature".

Animals don't see the futility of their existence. Man sees futility in nature and in his own life. Men feel angst, animals don't. Men turn to God. After all, all men don't have access to Scripture, but the all that can be known about God and his requirements can be seen in nature:


Acts 17
24The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth. He doesn’t live in shrines made by human hands, 25and he isn’t served by peoplek as if he needed anything. He himself gives everyone life, breath, and everything else. 26From one manl he made every nation of humanity to live all over the earth, fixing the seasons of the year and the national boundaries within which they live, 27so that they might look for God,m somehow reach for him, and find him. Of course, he is never far from any one of us. 28For we live, move, and exist because of him, as some of your own poets have said: ‘…Since we are his children, too.’n 29So if we are God’s children, we shouldn’t think that the divine being is like gold, silver, or stone, or is an image carved by humans using their own imagination and skill. 30Though God has overlooked those times of ignorance, he now commands everyone everywhere to repent, 31because he has set a day when he is going to judge the world with justiceo through a man whom he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Likewise, many Christians state love is proof of "God". I say love is proof for love; others infer love as originating from "God". Yet others infer love as originating from Jesus, or Krishna, or Aphrodite. Early Buddhism sees no reason to reach for any of the above inferences.

Nature is proof for Nature. Love is proof for Love. Neither are proofs for "God", Krishna, Aphrodite, Allah, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Nature is the means by which God reveals man's need for fulfilment to the sheep of other flocks, that fulfillment possible only through being in Christ. God leads those who reflect, are not unrepentantly carnal, to Jesus who will in no ways turn them away and they will follow him because they recognise the voice of their shepherd.

Using your analogy: Christianity claims one (or three rulers). Islam claims another ruler, with different characteristics. Hinduism claims yet other ruler(s). Etc. I invite the alleged "ruler" to appear. Until then, I am agnostic to its/his existence.

My personal experience with Reality and its Laws seems to point to the non-existence of "God" as the Abrahamic religions understand it.

Well the head of the IRS puts into the public domain the need for you to pay taxes. Are you going to ask him to come to you to show you where your tax dollars are going?

I believe I do; it is to learn the lesson of dukkha which swings back and forth in front of our faces every second of every day, and those who can observe that fact, should attempt to transcend it.

Dukkha is a rabbit trail. The real predicament is pointless existence. All that blood, sweat and tears, with nothing to show for it.

I believe I addressed this in post 204. I did so, for 30+ years.

What did you ask for in your prayers?

Okay, I see much reinvention in Christianity as well. Do you pray towards Mecca, as God wishes?

That's true. Just as priest craft and traditions of men transformed the basic way, sravakayana, pejoratively labeled hinayana, the lesser vehicle, mahayana and vajrayana transformed early Buddhism. Boundaries shift constantly in the subcontinent. Not so much in hearing directly from the mouth of God. Checks and balances are also built into the system. If a prophet did not have fulfilled prophecies or confirmed persuasions in the old administration, he faced death. In the new, he himself survived but as through fire, because the force of God's word is brought to bear to test the spirits, and his word is like fire, a hammer that breaks even rocks.


Second hand information introduces corruption into the original material. That's why you should not call any man teacher, because you have only one teacher, God. Do your due diligences. It's a light yoke.

No genuflection towards Mecca prescribed or even mentioned when the right texts are studied.

IMO that statement seemingly applies more to disciples of faith-based religions. I stick with what is known ... not preferences.

The IRS lays down the Way. You don't get to choose. You are either compliant or non compliant. The force of the penal law doesn't cater to preferences.

 

[ananda]

SIGH. You are treating the headache and missing the tumor.

All that needs to be known about God and what he requires of man can be seen in Nature .

Animals don't see the futility of their existence. Man sees futility in nature and in his own life. Men feel angst, animals don't. Men turn to God. After all, all men don't have access to Scripture, but the all that can be known about God and his requirements can be seen in nature:


Acts 17
24The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth. He doesn’t live in shrines made by human hands, 25and he isn’t served by peoplek as if he needed anything. He himself gives everyone life, breath, and everything else. 26From one manl he made every nation of humanity to live all over the earth, fixing the seasons of the year and the national boundaries within which they live, 27so that they might look for God,m somehow reach for him, and find him. Of course, he is never far from any one of us. 28For we live, move, and exist because of him, as some of your own poets have said: ‘…Since we are his children, too.’n 29So if we are God’s children, we shouldn’t think that the divine being is like gold, silver, or stone, or is an image carved by humans using their own imagination and skill. 30Though God has overlooked those times of ignorance, he now commands everyone everywhere to repent, 31because he has set a day when he is going to judge the world with justiceo through a man whom he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”



Nature is the means by which God reveals man's need for fulfilment to the sheep of other flocks, that fulfillment possible only through being in Christ. God leads those who reflect, are not unrepentantly carnal, to Jesus who will in no ways turn them away and they will follow him because they recognise the voice of their shepherd.





Well the head of the IRS puts into the public domain the need for you to pay taxes. Are you going to ask him to come to you to show you where your tax dollars are going?





Dukkha is a rabbit trail. The real predicament is pointless existence. All that blood, sweat and tears, with nothing to show for it.




What did you ask for in your prayers?



That's true. Just as priest craft and traditions of men transformed the basic way, sravakayana, pejoratively labeled hinayana, the lesser vehicle, mahayana and vajrayana transformed early Buddhism. Boundaries shift constantly in the subcontinent. Not so much in hearing directly from the mouth of God. Checks and balances are also built into the system. If a prophet did not have fulfilled prophecies or confirmed persuasions in the old administration, he faced death. In the new, he himself survived but as through fire, because the force of God's word is brought to bear to test the spirits, and his word is like fire, a hammer that breaks even rocks.


Second hand information introduces corruption into the original material. That's why you should not call any man teacher, because you have only one teacher, God. Do your due diligences. It's a light yoke.

No genuflection towards Mecca prescribed or even mentioned when the right texts are studied.





The IRS lays down the Way. You don't get to choose. You are either compliant or non compliant. The force of the penal law doesn't cater to preferences.

Your root cause: "pointless existence" does not explain all of man's activity.

The difference between a government department and "God" is that I have the option to go see for myself the government buildings and its administrators. I cannot observe for myself an intelligent, almighty, eternal being. Experience actually teaches me that there can be no being with such attributes.

Finally, adherence to the Laws of Nature is the essence of early Buddhism.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Your root cause: "pointless existence" does not explain all of man's activity.

It does. Even if you manage to dispose of your assorted dukkhas the predicament of pointless existence remains.

The difference between a government department and "God" is that I have the option to go see for myself the government buildings and its administrators. I cannot observe for myself an intelligent, almighty, eternal being. Experience actually teaches me that there can be no being with such attributes.

The point is you don't set the rules. If the IRS allows you to physical confirmation before payment, that's fine. Even there you don't st the condition of the IRS needing to appear before you. You need to go to them.

In the domain of the requirements of God, the level of confirmation is words and works. God didn't appear to the Israelites.

You can't blame God if some disbelieve. God even says that when hearts are hardened, no amount of evidence is proof. Even sending a man back from the dead wouldn't work. Good considered the written record of the Old Testament sufficient:

Luke 16
31“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

Matthew 11
17"'We played the pipe for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.'

It's the ruler who decides what proof is sufficient to convince and he will judge accordingly.

Finally, adherence to the Laws of Nature is the essence of early Buddhism.

I'm taking about the motifs. If work demands results in all of nature, why is it that human life, which is our main concern, does not reflect this motif?

 

[ananda]

It does. Even if you manage to dispose of your assorted dukkhas the predicament of pointless existence remains.

No, it doesn't. I can reasonably claim "people eat because they experience dukkha if they don't eat". I cannot see how it can be reasonably claimed that "people eat because they have a 'pointless existence'".

The point is you don't set the rules. If the IRS allows you to physical confirmation before payment, that's fine. Even there you don't st the condition of the IRS needing to appear before you. You need to go to them. In the domain of the requirements of God, the level of confirmation is words and works. God didn't appear to the Israelites. You can't blame God if some disbelieve. God even says that when hearts are hardened, no amount of evidence is proof. Even sending a man back from the dead wouldn't work. Good considered the written record of the Old Testament sufficient:

Luke 16
31“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

Matthew 11
17"'We played the pipe for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.'

It's the ruler who decides what proof is sufficient to convince and he will judge accordingly.

I agree there are laws governing Reality. What I don't know is if there is a "who" behind those laws. Until this alleged ruler compels me to submit to its judgment, I have no reason to believe that "he" is indeed the "ruler" - as opposed to Allah, Zeus, Brahman, Krishna, Ahura Mazda, Osiris, etc.

I'm taking about the motifs. If work demands results in all of nature, why is it that human life, which is our main concern, does not reflect this motif?

I know that it does, from my own experience.

 

[Wordkeeper]

No, it doesn't. I can reasonably claim "people eat because they experience dukkha if they don't eat". I cannot see how it can be reasonably claimed that "people eat because they have a 'pointless existence'".

Lay it out like this:

"people eat because they experience dukkha if they don't eat".

"but even when people eat because they experience dukkha if they don't eat, there is nothing they can do using Buddhism to avoid the ultimate dukkha of pointless existence ".

Only Christianity solves the dukkha of pointless existence as in :

" people seek Christ because they experience dukkha of pointless existence if they don't seek Christ "

I agree there are laws governing Reality. What I don't know is if there is a "who" behind those laws. Until this alleged ruler compels me to submit to its judgment, I have no reason to believe that "he" is indeed the "ruler" - as opposed to Allah, Zeus, Brahman, Krishna, Ahura Mazda, Osiris, etc.

You can know if he is the ruler because he confirmed it by raising Christ from the dead. Since Christ lives in me, the ruler continues to ensure Christ continues to be raised, as in when some one goes out on a limb like Moses, and is lifted up.

I know that it does, from my own experience.

Your experience is transient. Mine is eternal

 

[afishamongmany]

How long does it take to gain that direct knowledge of God?

Not gained but given.
As long as it takes to take what is given. After the repenting-believing-recieving then you can start to think about growing and increase of knowledge.
John5:24
John4:42
Hebrews11:6
1John1:1-4
Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies. And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him.
1Corinthians 8:1-3
Go well ananda, go wisely,
><>

 

[ananda]

Lay it out like this:

"people eat because they experience dukkha if they don't eat".

"but even when people eat because they experience dukkha if they don't eat, there is nothing they can do using Buddhism to avoid the ultimate dukkha of pointless existence ".

That is where we disagree. Buddhism does provide a purpose, as I've reiterated in multiple posts in this thread, though you probably disagree with its purpose.

Only Christianity solves the dukkha of pointless existence as in : " people seek Christ because they experience dukkha of pointless existence if they don't seek Christ "

This is an answer, but it is not a verifiable solution.

You can know if he is the ruler because he confirmed it by raising Christ from the dead. Since Christ lives in me, the ruler continues to ensure Christ continues to be raised, as in when some one goes out on a limb like Moses, and is lifted up.

I have not personally experienced or witnessed Christ rising from the dead, or the life of Moses.

Your experience is transient. Mine is eternal

I would say otherwise: mine is grounded in verifiable reality in the here-and-now, while yours appears to be built on the unstable foundation of an imaginary future & unverifiable past.

 

[ananda]

Not gained but given.
As long as it takes to take what is given. After the repenting-believing-recieving then you can start to think about growing and increase of knowledge.
John5:24
John4:42
Hebrews11:6
1John1:1-4
Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies. And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him.
1Corinthians 8:1-3
Go well ananda, go wisely,
><>

We have perhaps 70-90 years on this Earth, on average. I've already spent more than a third of that seeking the Christian god, but did not gain any direct knowledge of him.

Are you claiming that I should continue to maintain faith in a system which I could not verify until the exhaustion of my years, even though there are a multitude of religious systems, competing for my attention, which hold similar claims? Would you approve of a Zoroastrian giving similar advice to another Zoroastrian disciple, that the latter should continue to hold blind faith for decades until Ahura Mazda grants him direct knowledge? How do you propose that a man should explore all of the world's faith-based religions, given his limited physical lifespan, before finding the correct one?

 

[Wordkeeper]

That is where we disagree. Buddhism does provide a purpose, as I've reiterated in multiple posts in this thread, though you probably disagree with its purpose.

Your purpose is to treat the headache, missing out on the tumor. People die when critical issues are not dealt with.

This is an answer, but it is not a verifiable solution.

The are many ways of verification. Falsification, empirical, probability, etc. It depends on the subject: science, art, philosophy, etc.

God has given a process. He raises people from the dead, figuratively. (IN SOME CASES MIRACULOUS RESCUES HAVE TAKEN PLACE). When his messengers provide proof, it is in the form of being placed in a difficult situation and emerging unscathed. If this happens for his messengers today, it proves it happened for his messengers in the past. Needing appropriate response from you.

I have not personally experienced or witnessed Christ rising from the dead, or the life of Moses.

Yet you couldn't kill me, bring me to a dead stop.

I would say otherwise: mine is grounded in verifiable reality in the here-and-now, while yours appears to be built on the unstable foundation of an imaginary future & unverifiable past.

The experiences you've had can be replicated using mind altering drugs. They also do not address the predicament of pointless existence.

My method addresses that predicament. Proof lies in being rescued from being terminated. Verifying the past records.

Acts 17
24The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth. He doesn’t live in shrines made by human hands, 25and he isn’t served by peoplek as if he needed anything. He himself gives everyone life, breath, and everything else. 26From one manl he made every nation of humanity to live all over the earth, fixing the seasons of the year and the national boundaries within which they live, 27so that they might look for God,m somehow reach for him, and find him. Of course, he is never far from any one of us. 28For we live, move, and exist because of him, as some of your own poets have said: ‘…Since we are his children, too.’n 29So if we are God’s children, we shouldn’t think that the divine being is like gold, silver, or stone, or is an image carved by humans using their own imagination and skill. 30Though God has overlooked those times of ignorance, he now commands everyone everywhere to repent, 31because he has set a day when he is going to judge the world with justiceo through a man whom he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Will this proof force that response from you? Doubtful. Scripture says people don't change their minds, meta noia , because they love the darkness.

 

[ananda]

Your purpose is to treat the headache, missing out on the tumor.

What you consider the "headache", I consider the "tumor", as evidenced by my plain reasoning.

People die when critical issues are not dealt with.

Do you fear death?

The are many ways of verification. Falsification, empirical, probability, etc. It depends on the subject: science, art, philosophy, etc. God has given a process. He raises people from the dead, figuratively. (IN SOME CASES MIRACULOUS RESCUES HAVE TAKEN PLACE). When his messengers provide proof, it is in the form of being placed in a difficult situation and emerging unscathed. If this happens for his messengers today, it proves it happened for his messengers in the past. Needing appropriate response from you.

How does this account for miracles allegedly performed by deities and followers of other religions? Does it verify their deity? How do miracles verify that the one who performed the miracle is almighty and infinite?

Yet you couldn't kill me, bring me to a dead stop.

I am not sure what this means, in context of my statement.

The experiences you've had can be replicated using mind altering drugs. They also do not address the predicament of pointless existence. My method addresses that predicament. Proof lies in being rescued from being terminated. Verifying the past records.

I consider the goal of eliminating dukkha to be a worthy purpose.

Acts 17
24The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth. He doesn’t live in shrines made by human hands, 25and he isn’t served by peoplek as if he needed anything. He himself gives everyone life, breath, and everything else. 26From one manl he made every nation of humanity to live all over the earth, fixing the seasons of the year and the national boundaries within which they live, 27so that they might look for God,m somehow reach for him, and find him. Of course, he is never far from any one of us. 28For we live, move, and exist because of him, as some of your own poets have said: ‘…Since we are his children, too.’n 29So if we are God’s children, we shouldn’t think that the divine being is like gold, silver, or stone, or is an image carved by humans using their own imagination and skill. 30Though God has overlooked those times of ignorance, he now commands everyone everywhere to repent, 31because he has set a day when he is going to judge the world with justiceo through a man whom he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Will this proof force that response from you? Doubtful. Scripture says people don't change their minds, meta noia , because they love the darkness.

What do you believe this proves?

 

[TheOldWays]

SIGH. You are treating the headache and missing the tumor.

From what I can see, YOU are missing the tumor and treating the headache.

It does. Even if you manage to dispose of your assorted dukkhas the predicament of pointless existence remains.

Why is that a predicament? Does one need to feel like their life is 'special' to enjoy it? Feeling the need to seek meaning to our existence is not a good thing in my opinion.

Of course, that doesn't mean that Buddhism means a pointless existence. Even a very basic understanding of the various forms of Buddhism will show that. If you choose to ignore that, then so be it.

 

[Wordkeeper]

What you consider the "headache", I consider the "tumor", as evidenced by my plain reasoning.

In your dreams maybe. In the real world, everyone accepts that the life of this world isn't worth living considering the pain and suffering involved. Judaism calls it chayei sha'a fleeting life, opposed to chayei olam, eternal life.

Do you fear death?

Only ignorant people fear death. People who study know that death is release from pain and suffering for no payback. Christians know that to live is Christ (picking up our cross daily, subduing the earth) and death is gain (being with Christ.)

How does this account for miracles allegedly performed by deities and followers of other religions? Does it verify their deity? How do miracles verify that the one who performed the miracle is almighty and infinite?

By their fruit will you know them.

I am not sure what this means, in context of my statement.

I went out on a limb, because no outcome of any discussion is certain. All your efforts to cut the ground under my feet in this discussion failed.

I consider the goal of eliminating dukkha to be a worthy purpose.

Death reduces your work to a nullity.

What do you believe this proves?

That the message to leave working for the world for perishable wealth to join God to work for eternal wealth is true.

 

[Wordkeeper]

From what I can see, YOU are missing the tumor and treating the headache.

In your dreams maybe. In the real world, everyone accepts that the life of this world isn't worth living considering the pain and suffering involved. Judaism calls it chayei sha'a fleeting life, opposed to chayei olam, eternal life.

Why is that a predicament? Does one need to feel like their life is 'special' to enjoy it? Feeling the need to seek meaning to our existence is not a good thing in my opinion.

That's like saying finding out your job pays nothing wasn't a good thing.

Of course, that doesn't mean that Buddhism means a pointless existence. Even a very basic understanding of the various forms of Buddhism will show that. If you choose to ignore that, then so be it.

What is the payback that survives death?

What is the proof.

 

[ananda]

In your dreams maybe. In the real world, everyone accepts that the life of this world isn't worth living considering the pain and suffering involved. Judaism calls it chayei sha'a fleeting life, opposed to chayei olam, eternal life.


Only ignorant people fear death. People who study know that death is release from pain and suffering for no payback. Christians know that to live is Christ (picking up our cross daily, subduing the earth) and death is gain (being with Christ.)

By their fruit will you know them.

I went out on a limb, because no outcome of any discussion is certain. All your efforts to cut the ground under my feet in this discussion failed.

Death reduces your work to a nullity.


That the message to leave working for the world for perishable wealth to join God to work for eternal wealth is true.

Thanks for sharing your speculations.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Thanks for sharing your speculations.

There is no proof great enough to surmount the accusation of speculation. However, different contexts accept the adequacy of certain levels of authentication to be considered sufficient proof.

I'm travelling the opposite way, having been born in a Chan Buddhist family, mostly nominal. However I've spent time studying Pureland, and can manage with the original script and Sanskrit. Mostly studied to compare the exercises involved with kundalini, the Desert Fathers and Buddhism.

 

[ananda]

There is no proof great enough to surmount the accusation of speculation. However, different contexts accept the adequacy of certain levels of authentication to be considered sufficient proof.

I've thought about that quite a bit myself. It stands beyond reason to me that an allegedly infallible, almighty, eternal, infinite, and intelligent deity would choose to deliver its message through fallible formats and fallible intermediaries.

An almighty, eternal, infinite deity should surely ensure that his chosen prophet(s) are infallible; the prophet's writings (the holy books, the language chosen, and their copies) must also be infallible, imperishable, and eternally intelligible; those who come after and preserve those books must also be infallible; those who translates those books must also be infallible; those who expound the content of those books must also be infallible; and finally, those who hear or read the books or the translations (the disciple) must also be infallible in their individual capacity to interpret those writings. If there is any failure in that chain, it seems to me that it inherently proves that the imagined originator (the alleged deity) is imperfect and fallible. I do not see any hint of this chain of infallibility in any of the major faith-based world religions.

If, on the other hand, I was forced to conjecture a "perfect" god, it would not use fallible formats, nor would it find a need for intermediaries (like prophets or a priesthood). IMO the only way possible to fulfill these requirements is to embed and fix its message into the very laws of Reality itself. Such laws cannot be misinterpreted, nor would they require intermediaries, since those universal laws are directly and personally authenticatable, being immediately and directly observable throughout time and space, by the wise with vision to see.

Early Buddhism comes closest to the latter ideal, IMO. We focus on the laws of Reality and harmony with those laws, and on those things which we can immediately and directly observe - such as the law of cause and effect (kamma), the law of (ongoing) rebirth (based on the law of kamma), and dukkha and its resolution. Neither do we possess intermediaries: every individual is called to arahatta after having directly appropriated these truths for himself, just like the Buddha. Finally, walking the Buddhist Path is inherently revelatory: the further I progress in jhana, the more I directly learn and gain knowledge about - and control over - the deeper layers of Reality that were previously hidden. (For example, personal achievement of the fourth jhana is said to gain the practitioner the divine eye and ears, the capacity to personally observe the past and the future, and other capabilities.) Consideration of whether or not there exists an intelligent "God" at the end of the road is irrelevant at this stage in my journey, and it seems like that's just the way it's meant to be.

I'm travelling the opposite way, having been born in a Chan Buddhist family, mostly nominal. However I've spent time studying Pureland, and can manage with the original script and Sanskrit. Mostly studied to compare the exercises involved with kundalini, the Desert Fathers and Buddhism.

We must all walk the road that we personally observe - considering our personal circumstances - fits us best. If Christianity and faith in an unobserved higher power empowers you towards less long-term dukkha, then perhaps that is the way you must walk for now, and I wish you all the best in your walk.

 

[TheOldWays]

In your dreams maybe. In the real world, everyone accepts that the life of this world isn't worth living considering the pain and suffering involved. Judaism calls it chayei sha'a fleeting life, opposed to chayei olam, eternal life.

Yikes. An unfortunate way to live.

That's like saying finding out your job pays nothing wasn't a good thing.

It wouldn't be a good thing. I need money to pay for things.

What is the payback that survives death?

Rebirth in the Pureland. Escape from the samsara. All good things.

What is the proof.

Just like you. There is no hard proof, only faith, and the results of ones chosen path made manifest in our current incarnations.

 

[Rajni]

In the real world, everyone accepts that the life of this world isn't worth living considering the pain and suffering involved.

By "real world" do you mean clinical depression?
Because that sounds like clinical depression's view of life.

-

-

 

[Khalliqa]

I've thought about that quite a bit myself. It stands beyond reason to me that an allegedly infallible, almighty, eternal, infinite, and intelligent deity would choose to deliver its message through fallible formats and fallible intermediaries.

An almighty, eternal, infinite deity should surely ensure that his chosen prophet(s) are infallible; the prophet's writings (the holy books, the language chosen, and their copies) must also be infallible, imperishable, and eternally intelligible; those who come after and preserve those books must also be infallible; those who translates those books must also be infallible; those who expound the content of those books must also be infallible; and finally, those who hear or read the books or the translations (the disciple) must also be infallible in their individual capacity to interpret those writings. If there is any failure in that chain, it seems to me that it inherently proves that the imagined originator (the alleged deity) is imperfect and fallible. I do not see any hint of this chain of infallibility in any of the major faith-based world religions.

If, on the other hand, I was forced to conjecture a "perfect" god, it would not use fallible formats, nor would it find a need for intermediaries (like prophets or a priesthood). IMO the only way possible to fulfill these requirements is to embed and fix its message into the very laws of Reality itself. Such laws cannot be misinterpreted, nor would they require intermediaries, since those universal laws are directly and personally authenticatable, being immediately and directly observable throughout time and space, by the wise with vision to see.

Early Buddhism comes closest to the latter ideal, IMO. We focus on the laws of Reality and harmony with those laws, and on those things which we can immediately and directly observe - such as the law of cause and effect (kamma), the law of (ongoing) rebirth (based on the law of kamma), and dukkha and its resolution. Neither do we possess intermediaries: every individual is called to arahatta after having directly appropriated these truths for himself, just like the Buddha. Finally, walking the Buddhist Path is inherently revelatory: the further I progress in jhana, the more I directly learn and gain knowledge about - and control over - the deeper layers of Reality that were previously hidden. (For example, personal achievement of the fourth jhana is said to gain the practitioner the divine eye and ears, the capacity to personally observe the past and the future, and other capabilities.) Consideration of whether or not there exists an intelligent "God" at the end of the road is irrelevant at this stage in my journey, and it seems like that's just the way it's meant to be.

We must all walk the road that we personally observe - considering our personal circumstances - fits us best. If Christianity and faith in an unobserved higher power empowers you towards less long-term dukkha, then perhaps that is the way you must walk for now, and I wish you all the best in your walk.

All.... of... this...

 

[cloudyday2]

Why do people seek "God"?

Buddhism explains our search in terms of dukkha (aka suffering, discontentment, displeasure, etc.). That is, because of dukkha, we seek out god(s), saviors, prophets, psychics, doctors, politicians, love, food, money, sex, sleep, entertainment, etc.

Why not address dukkha itself, as the Lord Buddha taught, instead of seeking to treat its symptoms? Dig out the roots (of dukkha), instead of endlessly snipping its offshoots.

Maybe suffering/discontentment is a good thing, because it motivates people to fulfill their needs? Imagine Buddhism as an appetite suppressant. People without appetite might not eat enough to stay healthy. Maybe the purpose of life is to find something such as God? The Buddhist focuses on not feeling the need for God when he/she should be trying to find God. The times when I think that God might interact with me are often the times when I hit rock bottom psychologically and feel the greatest suffering over God's apparent absence and indifference. Sometimes it seems that God gives me a little encouragement at those times.