Why seek "God"?

[FireDragon76]

I would say it's not personal experience so much as corporate experience.

 

[ananda]

A corporate experience ... experienced by the individual?

 

[dlamberth]

Can you point me to a faith-based religion which possesses such a path consisting of intermediary steps (similar to above) by which a disciple, in his current lifetime, can progressively & directly experience knowledge of this intelligent ultimate?

I point towards the Mystics of the various spiritual traditions who do exactly what your asking.

 

[FireDragon76]

A corporate experience ... experienced by the individual?

Buddha was an individualist... I am not.

 

[dlamberth]

Buddha was an individualist... I am not.

Because of Buddha's concern with suffering, I'm unable to see him as an individualist.

 

[Arthra]

I hadn't posted in this thread as yet and so will now do so. My perspective is from my experience as a Baha'i. The question as posed in the title of the thread is "Why seek God?"

In my Faith there is a brief prayer that is very well known and recited at noon by many Baha'is around the world in various languages of course... The prayer was revealed by Baha'u'llah the Prophet Founder of the Baha'i Faith. Before reciting the prayer we perform ablutions washing the face and hands and stand facing the Qiblih of our Faith in Bahji the Holy Land (Israel).

The prayer follows:

"I bear witness, O my God, that Thou hast created me to know Thee and to worship Thee.

I testify, at this moment, to my powerlessness and to Thy might, to my poverty and to Thy wealth.

There is none other God but Thee, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting."

So we acknowledge that God has created us.. and the reason for our creation is to know and worship God. We also acknowledge our own weakness and recognize that God is all powerful..that we are poor and God is abundance and wealth... and finally that God is "the Help in Peril" and is "Self Subsisting."

When we worship God we do so with all our heart mind and soul... We believe God loves us and that we must return that love as best we can. It is also mentioned in our Writings that love is of four kinds.. (1) Love of God for the creation (humanity)...and (2) a reflection of that love from the creation (humanity) back to God... (3) Love of man for man.. such as love for our neighbor(s) and fellows and (4) Love of God for God...

Another brief verse from the Baha'i Writings follows:

Love Me that I may love thee...
If thou lovest Me not
My love can in no wise reach thee..
Know this oh servant!

 

[ananda]

I point towards the Mystics of the various spiritual traditions who do exactly what your asking.

Indeed, the early Buddhist path can be considered mystical, though it proposes and supposes nothing more than a supreme bliss at the "end of the road"; also, it does not conjecture on the presence or lack of intelligence at that end.

In this prior post, I wrote about the main problem I see regarding mystical paths which allege that their way can provide contact with an intelligent almighty.

 

[ananda]

Buddha was an individualist... I am not.

I don't believe that was an answer to my question. A corporation cannot experience anything, as it does not possess any sense ability. It is sensing individuals which compose the corporation that animates the latter.

 

[ananda]

I hadn't posted in this thread as yet and so will now do so. My perspective is from my experience as a Baha'i. The question as posed in the title of the thread is "Why seek God?"

In my Faith there is a brief prayer that is very well known and recited at noon by many Baha'is around the world in various languages of course... The prayer was revealed by Baha'u'llah the Prophet Founder of the Baha'i Faith. Before reciting the prayer we perform ablutions washing the face and hands and stand facing the Qiblih of our Faith in Bahji the Holy Land (Israel).

The prayer follows:

"I bear witness, O my God, that Thou hast created me to know Thee and to worship Thee.

I testify, at this moment, to my powerlessness and to Thy might, to my poverty and to Thy wealth.

There is none other God but Thee, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting."

So we acknowledge that God has created us.. and the reason for our creation is to know and worship God. We also acknowledge our own weakness and recognize that God is all powerful..that we are poor and God is abundance and wealth... and finally that God is "the Help in Peril" and is "Self Subsisting."

When we worship God we do so with all our heart mind and soul... We believe God loves us and that we must return that love as best we can. It is also mentioned in our Writings that love is of four kinds.. (1) Love of God for the creation (humanity)...and (2) a reflection of that love from the creation (humanity) back to God... (3) Love of man for man.. such as love for our neighbor(s) and fellows and (4) Love of God for God...

Another brief verse from the Baha'i Writings follows:

Love Me that I may love thee...
If thou lovest Me not
My love can in no wise reach thee..
Know this oh servant!

Thanks for sharing.

If I my ask: why not address the weakness itself, instead of attempting to explain it with one dogma or another?

 

[dlamberth]

Indeed, the early Buddhist path can be considered mystical, though it proposes and supposes nothing more than a supreme bliss at the "end of the road"; also, it does not conjecture on the presence or lack of intelligence at that end.

In this prior post, I wrote about the main problem I see regarding mystical paths which allege that their way can provide contact with an intelligent almighty.

Just to make sure that I went back to the correct referenced "prior post", was that post #250?

 

[ananda]

Just to make sure that I went back to the correct referenced "prior post", was that post #250?

Post #252

 

[dlamberth]

Given this possibility, how can we be sure that the Orthodox, and other western monastics and mystics aren't simply encountering an intermediate being such as Maha-Brahma?

I think the question needs to be turned around by asking: What IS the experience of the Mystics? Exploring that question is the trajectory I suggest if one truly does desire an understand of Mysticism. For the Buddhist, the way through the illusion may very will be Maha-Brahma. What do they experience there? For the Sufies a beginner might start with Fanna fi Shaikh but as they spiritually mature, eventually end up at Fanna fi Allah. What are they experiencing? For the Christian Mystics that would be Jesus Christ. Catholic Mystics also work with Mother Mary. For someone like myself, it would be the animating life force that is manifested in the natural world that infuses all of Creation with life and vitality.

 

[ananda]

I think the question needs to be turned around by asking: What IS the experience of the Mystics? Exploring that question is the trajectory I suggest if one truly does desire an understand of Mysticism. For the Buddhist, the way through the illusion may very will be Maha-Brahma. What do they experience there? For the Sufies a beginner might start with Fanna fi Shaikh but as they spiritually mature, eventually end up at Fanna fi Allah. What are they experiencing? For the Christian Mystics that would be Jesus Christ. Catholic Mystics also work with Mother Mary. For someone like myself, it would be the animating life force that is manifested in the natural world that infuses all of Creation with life and vitality.

Thanks for sharing; I think it all boils down to personal experience. I cannot see how can a mystic in a faith-based religion can refute the claims of an intermediate (but still extremely powerful) being who may claim that they are the "Almighty"/Infinite/Eternal/Omniscient/Omnipotent one. I would also question whether or not the things they experience can be interpreted as originating from the "Almighty".

For example, you may experience an "animating life force", but how do you know that it originates from an intelligent Almighty?

 

[dlamberth]

Thanks for sharing; I think it all boils down to personal experience. I cannot see how can a mystic in a faith-based religion can refute the claims of an intermediate (but still extremely powerful) being who may claim that they are the "Almighty"/Infinite/Eternal/Omniscient/Omnipotent one. I would also question whether or not the things they experience can be interpreted as originating from the "Almighty".

For example, you may experience an "animating life force", but how do you know that it originates from an intelligent Almighty?

Perhaps, (I don't know, just suggesting) we are talking past each other. So for clarification, when you write "intelligent Almighty", what concepts of God are you thinking?

I tend to look through the lens of Panentheism where life and creation itSelf has intelligence as well as consciousness. As such, I'm not able to separate the Divine source from anything that exist, both the seen and unseen. If you ever choose to look at the mystics, you will find that they tend to sit outside of the mainstream faiths. Some have been killed as heretics because of their spirituality.

 

[TheOldWays]

The most interesting thing about mystics is that they come from a variety of religions, but always have a common belief with other mystics. Like a Christian mystic would probably agree more with a sufi mystic then a Baptist.

I like what dlamberth says, but it's just not a path for me, but I see he is a guy that understands the idea of 'God' better then most.

 

[ananda]

Perhaps, (I don't know, just suggesting) we are talking past each other. So for clarification, when you write "intelligent Almighty", what concepts of God are you thinking?

I tend to look through the lens of Panentheism where life and creation itSelf has intelligence as well as consciousness. As such, I'm not able to separate the Divine source from anything that exist, both the seen and unseen. If you ever choose to look at the mystics, you will find that they tend to sit outside of the mainstream faiths. Some have been killed as heretics because of their spirituality.

When I speak of an "intelligent almighty", I think of the characteristics commonly associated with "God" such as intelligence, will, omnipotence, and (especially) volition and its associated attachments.

I question the notion of an "intelligent almighty", because, in my own practice of the Buddhist Path, my experience is that the higher I ascend into more rarefied states of mind, the more bliss I encounter, but I find myself possessing progressively less volition. Therefore, the conclusion I must reach is that the highest state/goal possesses no volition or force at all (two words I associate with "intelligence" and "almightiness") - contrary to mainstream ideas about "God".

 

[Arthra]

Thanks for sharing.

If I my ask: why not address the weakness itself, instead of attempting to explain it with one dogma or another?

Thanks "Ananda"! I hope your days are blissful... I was sharing how Baha'is would respond to the question posed in the thread: "Why seek God?"

 

[Noxot]

Indeed, the early Buddhist path can be considered mystical, though it proposes and supposes nothing more than a supreme bliss at the "end of the road"; also, it does not conjecture on the presence or lack of intelligence at that end.

In this prior post, I wrote about the main problem I see regarding mystical paths which allege that their way can provide contact with an intelligent almighty.

bliss implies intelligence.

 

[habibii zahra]

Why do people seek "God"?

Buddhism explains our search in terms of dukkha (aka suffering, discontentment, displeasure, etc.). That is, because of dukkha, we seek out god(s), saviors, prophets, psychics, doctors, politicians, love, food, money, sex, sleep, entertainment, etc.

Why not address dukkha itself, as the Lord Buddha taught, instead of seeking to treat its symptoms? Dig out the roots (of dukkha), instead of endlessly snipping its offshoots.

we seek god because we seek our perfection and you cannot reach perfection until we believe in the true god...well who makes you think that god of Buddhists don't believe in the true god as Christians muslims and jews??? there is one god for all people....even Buddhist believe in god so what cant this god be ours??
god is the image of mercy beauty and compassion ..the god whom you worship maybe same as ours

 

[TheOldWays]

the god whom you worship maybe same as ours

most Buddhists don't worship gods as they don't see them as eternal.