Why seek "God"?

[FireDragon76]

Why do people seek "God"?

Buddhism explains our search in terms of dukkha (aka suffering, discontentment, displeasure, etc.). That is, because of dukkha, we seek out god(s), saviors, prophets, psychics, doctors, politicians, love, food, money, sex, sleep, entertainment, etc.

Why not address dukkha itself, as the Lord Buddha taught, instead of seeking to treat its symptoms? Dig out the roots (of dukkha), instead of endlessly snipping its offshoots.

I'd recommend The Unexpected Way by Paul Williams, who was a convert from Tibetan Buddhism to Roman Catholicism, and was a professor at Oxford in Buddhist studies. At one point he realized that he wasn't interested in what was merely therapeutic, but what was objectively true, regardless of how it made him feel. He also said he found that Buddhism made individual human life meaningless.

I think Christianity can give meaning to suffering in a way that Buddhism cannot (and some explanations Buddhists have for suffering potentially denigrate human dignity). For some people, that's appealing.

 

[ananda]

If you have a malignant tumor in your brain which hurts, you could solve the problem with aspirin.

However, is that the desired result?

Similarly, most people don't even know what the desired result to be reached is, because they don't know what problem is being faced.

In your view, what is the human predicament?

The human predicament is dukkha (suffering/discontentment), as I wrote in my OP. Everything is done because of dukkha.

We sleep because we experience dukkha if we stay awake too long. We wake up & get out of bed, because staying in bed too long is also dukkha. We eat, because hunger is dukkha. We stop eating, because overeating is dukkha. We breathe in air, because not having oxygen is dukkha. We breathe out, because having too much carbon dioxide in the lungs is dukkha. We seek entertainment, because boredom is dukkha. We seek other entertainment, because too much of one kind is dukkha. We seek solitude, because too much entertainment becomes dukkha. Many seek saviors or gods, because the prospects regarding death and the cessation of physical life is dukkha. Some seek suicide because the thought of painful, ongoing existence is dukkha. And so on, and so forth, with everything else in our lives.

 

[ananda]

As far as I know I never lost Him.

Why do you need "Him"?

 

[Robban]

Why do you need "Him"?

In a relationship, how would it work out if one party said, "I don't need you?"

 

[ananda]

I'd recommend The Unexpected Way by Paul Williams, who was a convert from Tibetan Buddhism to Roman Catholicism, and was a professor at Oxford in Buddhist studies. At one point he realized that he wasn't interested in what was merely therapeutic, but what was objectively true, regardless of how it made him feel. He also said he found that Buddhism made individual human life meaningless.

I think Christianity can give meaning to suffering in a way that Buddhism cannot (and some explanations Buddhists have for suffering potentially denigrate human dignity). For some people, that's appealing.

Thanks for the book suggestion. IMO Tibetan Buddhism is not authentic Buddhism. Its doctrines deviates far from the earliest Buddhist texts, as I read them. Personally, I've found far more meaning and peace in early Buddhism than I ever did in my three decades in Christianity.

 

[ananda]

In a relationship, how would it work out if one party said, "I don't need you?"

Is it possible to have a relationship with something I cannot perceive?

 

[FireDragon76]

We sleep because we experience dukkha if we stay awake too long. We wake up & get out of bed, because staying in bed too long is also dukkha. We eat, because hunger is dukkha. We stop eating, because overeating is dukkha. We breathe in air, because not having oxygen is dukkha. We breathe out, because having too much carbon dioxide in the lungs is dukkha. We seek entertainment, because boredom is dukkha. We seek other entertainment, because too much of one kind is dukkha. We seek solitude, because too much entertainment becomes dukkha. Many seek saviors or gods, because the prospects regarding death and the cessation of physical life is dukkha. Some seek suicide because the thought of painful, ongoing existence is dukkha. And so on, and so forth, with everything else in our lives.

That's as ridiculous as some Christian fundamentalist accounts of the world I have heard. We eat, sleep, and breath because that's what our bodies do by nature.

As Paul Williams said, Buddhism is like morphine. Others have said this too. Morphine might make you feel better, but if you take it for the wrong illness, it will not actually make you get better.

 

[Robban]

Is it possible to have a relationship with something I cannot perceive?

By connecting.

 

[ananda]

That's as ridiculous as some Christian fundamentalist accounts of the world I have heard. We eat, sleep, and breath because that's what our bodies do by nature.

Do we not suffer, if we don't eat, sleep, and breathe?

As Paul Williams said, Buddhism is like morphine. Others have said this too. Morphine might make you feel better, but if you take it for the wrong illness, it will not actually make you get better.

Good thing Paul Williams is not authoritative, in my eyes. As far as all my personal experience and knowledge confirms, Buddhism is making me into a better, healthier person.

 

[ananda]

By connecting.

With what, if I can't perceive it?

 

[~Anastasia~]

The human predicament is dukkha (suffering/discontentment), as I wrote in my OP. Everything is done because of dukkha.

We sleep because we experience dukkha if we stay awake too long. We wake up & get out of bed, because staying in bed too long is also dukkha. We eat, because hunger is dukkha. We stop eating, because overeating is dukkha. We breathe in air, because not having oxygen is dukkha. We breathe out, because having too much carbon dioxide in the lungs is dukkha. We seek entertainment, because boredom is dukkha. We seek other entertainment, because too much of one kind is dukkha. We seek solitude, because too much entertainment becomes dukkha. Many seek saviors or gods, because the prospects regarding death and the cessation of physical life is dukkha. Some seek suicide because the thought of painful, ongoing existence is dukkha. And so on, and so forth, with everything else in our lives.

Reducing everything down to that actually seems rather dismal to me. The summit experience is life is avoidance of various kinds of suffering?

Why even live at all? In such a paradigm, loss of life should be the ultimate avoidance of the suffering that IS life.

 

[Robban]

With what, if I can't perceive it?

What do you mean with "percieve "?

I cannot see the wind but I can feel it.

 

[ananda]

Reducing everything down to that actually seems rather dismal to me. The summit experience is life is avoidance of various kinds of suffering?

Why even live at all? In such a paradigm, loss of life should be the ultimate avoidance of the suffering that IS life.

Well, it may not be pretty, but wouldn't you agree that everything we do is motivated by dukkha? It seems obvious to me. Can you point out the error in my analysis?

Dukkha doesn't only mean suffering; it also suggests discontentment, displeasure, pain, dissatisfaction. Discontentment brings motivation to do something, or change something, about it - activity. Contentment brings stillness and peace - inactivity.

 

[ananda]

What do you mean with "percieve "?

I cannot see the wind but I can feel it.

Feeling is a form of touch perception.

I do not see, hear, taste, smell, or touch "Him".

 

[FireDragon76]

Good thing Paul Williams is not authoritative, in my eyes. As far as all my personal experience and knowledge confirms, Buddhism is making me into a better, healthier person.

You have no objective standard to say you actually are a better person. You just feel better, and that's the problem from a Christian POV. You are left with a religious system that traps you inside your own subjectivity.

Christianity involves belief in a real world with real persons that relate to each other ideally in love.

 

[Robban]

Feeling is a form of touch perception.

I do not see, hear, taste, smell, or touch "Him".

And yet there is no where He is not.

 

[ananda]

You have no objective standard to say you actually are a better person. You just feel better, and that's the problem from a Christian POV.

How can I prove any objective standards outside of what I know directly for myself, and my own experience?

 

[ananda]

And yet there is no where He is not.

I'm not sure I understand your statement.

 

[FireDragon76]

How can I prove any objective standards outside of what I know directly for myself, and my own experience?

Do you believe in logic or reason? Don't you think it is logical that there was a first cause to existence?

 

[~Anastasia~]

Well, it may not be pretty, but wouldn't you agree that everything we do is motivated by dukkha? It seems obvious to me.

Dukkha doesn't only mean suffering; it also suggests discontentment, displeasure, pain, dissatisfaction. Discontentment brings motivation to do something, or change something, about it - activity. Contentment brings stillness and peace - inactivity.

No, I don't agree that this is my only motive.

Sometimes - often in fact - I NEED to do a thing I would rather avoid, or someone else needs me to do it, or it is the right or loving thing to do. I might selfishly WANT to do something quite different, but I don't do what I want to do.

Overall I have a very great peace and contentment. But it isn't brought about by my daily choices sometimes. And I would submit that if I DID try to find peace and contentment through those means, I would constantly changing means, as you describe. A thing feels good, but only for a while, then a new or even opposite thing is needed.

No, I have peace and contentment in whatever situation I face. And believe me, that has been brought home to me very much this last year, as I was diagnosed with cancer and have been undergoing surgeries and treatments. There is no easy eat/don't eat/sleep/get up/entertain oneself away from that situation. Yet I do not exaggerate to say it has been a very blessed year st the same time.