Why is this ok when God does it but bad when we(humans) do this?

[brinny]

I'll never be an atheist because I'm fully convinced of God but because of what I stated in my OP I don't trust God at all. I really wish I didn't ask these questions and just trusted but I cant.

It is not possible for us, of our own power/volition, strength, etc. to "trust" Him. Only HE can makd it even possible to trust Him at all. What comes to mind for me is the man in the New Testament who asked Jesus to help his unbelief (in Mark 9:23-24).

God is not angry with you. He is drawing you near to HIM, so that He can minister to you. He is a GOOD God, a delightful Creator, Who loves us with an unfathomable love. It is written that those who heed His Word, and therefore love Him, He will chase them down and overcome them with blessings hahaaa. How delightful is THAT???!!!!

(by the way, your thread, and me delving into it has blessed me. Thank you for starting this thread. i needed to examine the questions you asked.)

This verse below came to mind for me as i was posting this response. Thank you and God bless you. (click on the link).

View attachment 294919

 

[hedrick]

Sooooooo, those worms you speak of are those spoken of by God in eternity?

This is surely an image, not literal. No, I doubt there are eternal worms anywhere. Even in Is 66, where it was a threat that enemies would have literal dead bodies, I doubt that God really intended to preserve the bodies forever.

 

[fhansen]

I feel like I'm at a cross-roads in my faith. I'll always believe in God but I have zero faith that He cares except for those he favors. Anyway, my question(rhetorical one) is this, why is it wrong to bash parents that have kids but fail to care for them?

Immediately people say," They didn't ask to come here, when you have kids you need to provide the best life possible for them." All of this I agree with. I know the answer to this question but with God there's so many of us that didn't ask to be here but people reply with the opposite saying, " God owes you nothing, be grateful and what not"

If I said that to my kid I would be considered toxic. I just think like Why is it ok for God to create millions of people, some that have horrendous lives, Lonely lives, struggle with mental illness and He just watches them struggle?

This along with the verse He has mercy on whomever he wills makes me want to give up on God honestly.

The only way I can make this okay in my head and heart is to cancel out his power. I'd understand if He just couldn't help and was doing the best He could BUT the fact He can and choose not to disturbs me alot.

Idk I need some answers because I just don't see God the same.

There aren't any perfect, pat answers to this question which theologians, thinkers, and regular folk have certainly struggled with forever. But there are several points worthy of consideration here IMO:

1) God allows a very radical degree of freedom, both physically and morally, in this world and freedom, itself, isn't a bad thing even if human moral freedom can be abused and physical tragedies cause much pain in this world.
2) The sufferings in this life are temporary regardless.
3) To a point, hardship and sufferings can cause growth in us, of humility, character, a desire for truth and righteousness and for something better, etc. This comes into play if we consider the state of Adam and Eve in Eden, supposedly a perfect world, where they still apparently didn't appreciate what they had.
4) Even in a messed up world existence itself is inherently and intrinsically good-and, consciously or not, we innately value and cherish our own existence and wish it to continue even in the midst of severe physical or emotional pain until it simply becomes more than we can bear. This is beyond a mere survival instinct but a recognition of the beauty of life even as many forces may strive to oppose that beauty in this fallen world.
5) God, Himself, came down in human flesh to identify with ourselves and our sufferings, which He certainly endured-and endured at the hands of His own creation due to the very sin: the preference for darkness, rejection of truth, hatred of innocence, and the pride/self-righteousness and selfish preference for ourselves and our own agendas that all prevail in this world. Either way He knew suffering-and His own suffering was aimed at ultimately destroying ours, without force but by appealing to our desire for something better than this world has to offer and promising it with the love that He demonstrated and the resurrection to a new and eternal life that He proved in His own flesh.
6) God, alone, knows the beginning from the end and can ultimately bring about an even greater good from the evil that He allows -in a manner in which only He knows. Either way, at the end of the day all shall be made well with the victims of suffering-and we all suffer to one degree or another.

 

[brinny]

This is surely an image, not literal. No, I doubt there are eternal worms anywhere.

What has what is written in God's Word got to do with what "we" think? Isn'f that the entire issue with how all of this started? Eve, giving heed to the serpent (Satan), in the first place? She "thought" that she could gain more knowledge than God had given her....she "coveted" it. Just as Lucifer/Satan had "coveted" being "as God". It boils down to that ol' Achilles Heel, "pride" that condemned Satan, and the very same thing that condems us, just as it condemned Eve.

 

[Olivet]

Don't be too hard on yourself for asking these questions. They are there and many Christians struggle with them. Despite the fact I have no knock down answers, I came to faith already asking these question, have struggled with them honestly, and my faith is more robust on account of doing so. I am certain God knows these questions occur, and I know from experience that God has guided me in facing them with faith intact.

How did it get more robuust?

 

[Olivet]

It is not possible for us, of our own power/volition, strength, etc. to "trust" Him. Only HE can makd it even possible to trust Him at all. What comes to mind for me is the man in the New Testament who asked Jesus to help his unbelief (in Mark 9:23-24).

God is not angry with you. He is drawing you near to HIM, so that He can minister to you. He is a GOOD God, a delightful Creator, Who loves us with an unfathomable love. It is written that those who heed His Word, and therefore love Him, He will chase them down and overcome them with blessings hahaaa. How delightful is THAT???!!!!

View attachment 294918

(by the way, your thread, and me delving into it has blessed me. Thank you for starting this thread. i needed to examine the questions you asked.)

This verse below came to mind for me as i was posting this response. Thank you and God bless you. (click on the link).

View attachment 294919

Thank you for the underlined. I totally forgot about that. That truly helps.

 

[th1bill]

I feel like I'm at a cross-roads in my faith. I'll always believe in God but I have zero faith that He cares except for those he favors. Anyway, my question(rhetorical one) is this, why is it wrong to bash parents that have kids but fail to care for them?

Immediately people say," They didn't ask to come here, when you have kids you need to provide the best life possible for them." All of this I agree with. I know the answer to this question but with God there's so many of us that didn't ask to be here but people reply with the opposite saying, " God owes you nothing, be grateful and what not"

If I said that to my kid I would be considered toxic. I just think like Why is it ok for God to create millions of people, some that have horrendous lives, Lonely lives, struggle with mental illness and He just watches them struggle?

This along with the verse He has mercy on whomever he wills makes me want to give up on God honestly.

The only way I can make this okay in my head and heart is to cancel out his power. I'd understand if He just couldn't help and was doing the best He could BUT the fact He can and choose not to disturbs me alot.

Idk I need some answers because I just don't see God the same.

YHWH loves every one of us and as the Loving Father gives us every opportunity to change by repenting and to go to Heaven and be with Him.

 

[brinny]

Thank you for the underlined. I totally forgot about that. That truly helps.

It helps me too. i needed to be reminded of that today too. Your questions prompted me to examine this very thing. i needed to. Thank you.

 

[public hermit]

How did it get more robuust?

When I first came to faith, I studied a lot, especially questions like you're asking. At the time, I assumed I should be able to find clear answers. Over time I realized 1) the more answers I found the more questions I had, and 2) faith did not depend on having the right answers to all my questions (in fact, faith precludes the possibility).

If these questions remain, then trust God and pursue the literature that deals with them. I would always pray, "God, I don't understand this, help me understand what I should and preserve my faith" and then I dove right in. At this point I know the available question, and a good many of the responses. There's no clear answer. Of course, that's true for a lot of theological questions.

My faith has changed. I'm not naive to the difficulties, and yet I get up every morning and seek to trust God. I do believe God is Love, even though I don't have answers to these difficult questions. That is a primary starting point, for me. But it's not a mere assumption. That God is Love, and is reconciling all things back to God, is a primary point of what is being revealed in Christ.

I know I could be wrong about God. But I go forward in faith, based in Christ, even though I don't have all the answers. That, my friend, is when faith gets real. Faith that parades itself as certainty, and yet has never struggled with the hard questions, is fine, but it doesn't take a risk. Not everyone struggles, may God bless them. Those who struggle and persist know the risk. All that being said, I will always be willing to risk on the side of love. If I'm wrong, so be it.

 

[hedrick]

What has what is written in God's Word got to do with what "we" think? Isn'f that the entire issue with how all of this started? Eve, giving heed to the serpent (Satan), in the first place? She "thought" that she could gain more knowledge than God had given her....she "coveted" it. Just as Lucifer/Satan had "coveted" being "as God". It boils down to that ol' Achilles Heel, "pride" that condemned Satan, and the very same thing that condems us, just as it condemned Eve.

For better or worse, detecting metaphor and symbolism requires judgement. How do we know that Jesus isn't literally a door? Because the literal makes no sense. Christianity seems to lead some people to abandoning normal ways of understanding language. (The weirdest is transsubstantiation, I think.) I don't think that's a good thing. Why do I think eternal worms are non-literal? Because in the initial occurrence in Is 66, it was bodies of people lying in the field of battle, decaying. There's no sign that Isaiah intended miraculous eternal worms. It's a judgement, but one that seems pretty obvious.

 

[brinny]

For better or worse, detecting metaphor and symbolism requires judgement. How do we know that Jesus isn't literally a door? Because the literal makes no sense. Christianity seems to lead some people to abandoning normal ways of understanding language. (The weirdest is transsubstantiation, I think.) I don't think that's a good thing. Why do I think eternal worms are non-literal? Because in the initial occurrence in Is 66, it was bodies of people lying in the field of battle, decaying. There's no sign that Isaiah intended miraculous eternal worms. It's a judgement, but one that seems pretty obvious.

Speaking of "judgement", if it's "of God", meaning "wisdom", as it is written: "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Without bonafide wisdom, we bob around on the ocean like an unanchored, tossed-around boat, or tumble about like a tumbleweed.

It is also written that God's thoughts. are not as ours. His are infinitely above ours. Ours are finite and therefore limited and fallible, just as we are.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

True but he gives everyone a different measure of grace and that can be seen in people's lives. One person may have a good upbringing, friends, married and still have God. The other abused, lonely, struggling. Why the difference? why would God give one person more blessings and favor than the other. Yes God died for all but the first person I mention has that and a bit more. (Both people are real life examples)

Also, that scripture I mentioned wasn't explained (He has mercy on whom ever he wills) Is that why some people have bad lives and others good lives?

Romans 9:16-18 can be read wrongfully from a Calvinistic perspective.

It says:

“So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” (Romans 9:16-18).​

Who or what is this passage in context to? The Jews who rejected their Messiah, and who hold to a false works ALONE based system of religion that did not include being saved by God's grace through Jesus Christ.

“I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.” (Romans 9:1-5).​

This is the context in reference to who Paul is talking about. He is not referring to any kind of Calvinistic perspective.

Calvinism in my view is as about as bad as believing in a Flat Earth. There is no evidence for it whatsoever. Sure, certain verses can be ripped out of context to defend Calvinism (like Romans 9), but that does not make it true. Take for example the story of Jonah. Jonah preached that the Ninevites were going to be destroyed in 40 days. But that did not happen. Why? It was because they cried out unto God (i.e. sought forgiveness with Him), and the had forsaken their evil ways. In fact, Jonah 3 tells us that when God had seen that the Ninevites had forsaken their wickedness, that is when He decided to no longer bring wrath or judgment upon them anymore. So it was the Ninevites changing the situation and it was not God electing them to salvation or electing them to reprobation. Calvinism is crazier than a bag of cats. Why would God give us commands if we are elected to be a certain way? My Bible says draw near to God and he will draw near to you. Genesis 6 talks about how God was grieved by those who commited sin during Noah's time. Why would God be grieved with His own choice to make them reprobate? These things do not sound consistent with Calvinism. In fact, many of these statements are made in the Bible that you have to actually take a black magic marker and cross out tons of verses like these in order to make Calvinism work.

Take for example 2 Thessalonians 2:10. It says:

“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.” (2 Thessalonians 2:10).​

What is the reason why certain folks in this above verse are perishing? Is it because God did not elect them to salvation? No. Those who are perishing are doing so because they received not the love of the truth that they MIGHT be saved. So there is a possibility that they can be saved. 2 Thessalonians 2:10 uses the word MIGHT in relation to being saved. In Calvinism, there is no such thing as MIGHT be saved. So we have to look at the whole counsel of God's Word and not just read verses like Romans 9:16-18 out of context. This is why you may be angry at God right now. But you are not angry at the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible does not teach Calvinism.

 

[Ietermagog]

This reminds me of the part where Jesus talks about the weeds. That Jesus sowed His seeds and then then Satan also went and sowed seeds on the same cropland.

I read in the Bible a part where Job referred to God as the Slayer of the Leviathan. When I tried to find out more I came across Sumerian mythology. According to those the human race was actually supposed to have ended in the flood. Not survived. Thus God saved us from extinction and through Jesus and the power of the Holy Ghost we are promised salvation from this world and allowed passage into His Kingdom in the heavens, free from this pain and suffering.
Before Jesus all souls went to hell. And Jesus said it's through the Holy Ghost that he banishes evil spirits out of the living. The Holy Ghost being the Ghost of His Father. Which I believe was being talked about as God's Spirit gliding across the empty oceans during the time of creation on earth. Thus all of Jesus' power comes from The Spirit of God. The reason I say this is I also a while ago started having problems with my faith and did not quite understand what the Holy Ghost was and I started feeling like I was going insane, because I thought I blasmphemed against the Holy Ghost in my thoughts with profanity and I felt like there was no purpose anymore to continue living. I was in pain and depression for a long time and my sanity started going backwards so my thoughts became real hard too control which eventually lead to that situation.
I then started looking for the slimmest chance at redemption and forgiveness and read online that blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is not profanity, but denying the Holy Ghost's power. Which is where all of Jesus' power came from as it is The Spirit of God.
I'm mentioning this, as the moment I realized this I felt cured. All of the dark thoughts started leaving me.
I still had doubts. Then when I realized Jesus went to hell and came back through the power of the Holy Ghost I realized that the Holy Ghost was there before creation on earth and all the evil spirits. Thus the Holy Ghost has power over all. The Holy Ghost is what saves us from hell and keeps evil spirits from posesing us.
So I just added my experience as a warning. Blashmpheming against the Holy Ghost is denying it's power. So you can choose not to worship God, but denying His power is something far more dangerous. As I just had doubts about the Holy Ghost, because I couldn't understand what the Holy Ghost was at that time and I slowly became fearful of every little I did and had things constantly go through my mind that made me later want to try and find a Catholic priest, even though I'm Protestant,

 

[GirdYourLoins]

God definitely favours some and causes others a hard time. What I cant say is whether He just leaves them to Satans attack or is actively involved, but there are definitely Christians out there who suffer misfortune and suffering that goes far beyond simple chance.
And people use Job as an example of someone who god has allowed to suffer, but in reality he was someone who was greatly blessed by God and most importantly protected by God for nearly all his life. He only suffered for a short time when Satan came to God to ask God to remove the hedge of protection He had put around Job. And after this short while of suffering God blessed him more than before. So for nearly all his life Job received direct protection from God and was given great success in life. Job to me is someone I see as greatly blessed by God. Why does God choose to bless people like he blessed Job?
The only comfort I can give to people who God allows to suffer constantly is the rich man and Lazarus. Im just hoping the people who suffer in this life get the greatest blessing in the next.

 

[Ietermagog]

I accidently posted the reply while typing and can't find the edit button, sorry.

The point I'm trying to make is all of Jesus' power comes from the Holy Ghost. Which is God's Spirit. The moment I had doubts about what the Holy Ghost was, because I did not remember scripture, I got hit hard with thoughts that went through my mind that almost broke me. I had no more will to live. Best way to describe it would be like being under constant siege with thoughts that tries to mislead you and make you give up your faith. As that thought crossed my mind a lot nearing the end. As the misleading thoughts filled me with extreme pain which came from fear of having done sins that would keep me out of heaven. And one of the solutions to end the pain was to just turn my back on God or give up. But I feared that even more, as I really wanted to be with my Father and Jesus one day in their Kingdom. The Holy Ghost tries to lead us there. Which to me was a good thing because it kept me from giving up a lot of times and from suicide several times.

My point is you might start too expiernce an increasing amount of misleading thoughts that want you to doubt and forget God's power and then renounce God. Which opens you up to the next phase, which is possession. As it's the Holy Ghost that keeps evil spirits out. And what saved me was realizing that blashmphemy against the Holy Ghost is denying the absolute power of the Holy Ghost, by saying that the Holy Ghost doesn't hold any power. Which means it comes down to faith. Which is the end goal of Satan and the other evils. As, like I said, the Holy Ghost is The Spirit of God, through which Jesus did all His miracles, banish evil spirits from people and which brought Jesus back from hell. Thus the Holy Ghost holds power over all the evil spirits and all in hell. Which is why Satan first attacks you with doubts which leads to renouncing your faith. Jesus said he came to save the lost, not ones already on the right path who are saved and before He healed people they had to undergo a test of faith. Satan tries to mislead those on the right path, those in doubt are prime targets. You speak of crossroads, Jesus spoke of the narrow road and the wide road. Most paintings I see portray them as roads leading parralel towards different ends. Remember that roads always leads somewhere even when it appears as nowhere.

 

[SANTOSO]

I feel like I'm at a cross-roads in my faith. I'll always believe in God but I have zero faith that He cares except for those he favors. Anyway, my question(rhetorical one) is this, why is it wrong to bash parents that have kids but fail to care for them?

Immediately people say," They didn't ask to come here, when you have kids you need to provide the best life possible for them." All of this I agree with. I know the answer to this question but with God there's so many of us that didn't ask to be here but people reply with the opposite saying, " God owes you nothing, be grateful and what not"

If I said that to my kid I would be considered toxic. I just think like Why is it ok for God to create millions of people, some that have horrendous lives, Lonely lives, struggle with mental illness and He just watches them struggle?

This along with the verse He has mercy on whomever he wills makes me want to give up on God honestly.

The only way I can make this okay in my head and heart is to cancel out his power. I'd understand if He just couldn't help and was doing the best He could BUT the fact He can and choose not to disturbs me alot.

Idk I need some answers because I just don't see God the same.

Dear Olivet,
Don’t rebel against God. Don’t defy Him.
I understand that you are discouraged but don’t speak that you will regret.

Many gets discouraged but many find strength through accepting their own weaknesses, inabilities, and spiritual poverty.
Then start relying on His strength.

Dear olivet,
I understand that you are disturbed.
Calm yourself and sort through.

Though you don’t understand God, don’t hate Him or rebel against Him. It won’t do good.

Repent and seek help to understand what you don’t understand about God.

Eventually, you will appreciate love from God the way you should.

 

[Jackierose]

I've wrestled with similar questions too. What you said reminded me of Job's faith in the midst of trials - When troubles were light, Job was still able to praise God (Job 1:21 Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will depart. The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away; may the name of the Lord be praise) but when troubles intensified, his faith really struggled and was put to the test (Job 3:1 After this Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth, Job 7:16-20 If I have sinned, what have I done to you O watcher of men? Why have you made me your target? Have I become a burden to you?, Job 21:7 why do the wicked prosper, growing old and increasing in power?). However, God never abandoned Job and when Job overcame his trials, God blessed the latter part of his life more than the first.

There are two sides to the suffering we experience in the world - The fact is that the people closest to God throughout history have suffered greatly but not without reason. "Blessed is the man whom God corrects; so do not despise the discipline of the Almighty". The other side to this is that the influence of Satan is very real and pervasive, and he is the reason for all the evil in this world and not because God "allows" this to happen. He puts us through trials to strengthen our faith so that we can overcome Satan. This is why Jesus felt the need to warn his disciples (Jn 16:33 I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.)

 

[Guojing]

True but he gives everyone a different measure of grace and that can be seen in people's lives. One person may have a good upbringing, friends, married and still have God. The other abused, lonely, struggling. Why the difference? why would God give one person more blessings and favor than the other. Yes God died for all but the first person I mention has that and a bit more. (Both people are real life examples)

Also, that scripture I mentioned wasn't explained (He has mercy on whom ever he wills) Is that why some people have bad lives and others good lives?

This reminds me of what Jesus said to Israel in Matthew 25

14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.

19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Do you notice the same praise was given to the one with 5 and the one with 2? So the point is don't worry if you happen to see yourself as less "endowed" by God than other Christians.

It is all based on how faithful you are with what you have been given.

 

[Hanging by a Thread]

I feel like I'm at a cross-roads in my faith. I'll always believe in God but I have zero faith that He cares except for those he favors. Anyway, my question(rhetorical one) is this, why is it wrong to bash parents that have kids but fail to care for them?

Immediately people say," They didn't ask to come here, when you have kids you need to provide the best life possible for them." All of this I agree with. I know the answer to this question but with God there's so many of us that didn't ask to be here but people reply with the opposite saying, " God owes you nothing, be grateful and what not"

If I said that to my kid I would be considered toxic. I just think like Why is it ok for God to create millions of people, some that have horrendous lives, Lonely lives, struggle with mental illness and He just watches them struggle?

This along with the verse He has mercy on whomever he wills makes me want to give up on God honestly.

The only way I can make this okay in my head and heart is to cancel out his power. I'd understand if He just couldn't help and was doing the best He could BUT the fact He can and choose not to disturbs me alot.

Idk I need some answers because I just don't see God the same.

I know how you feel. I'm at a cross-roads too. But at least we're here asking questions and trying to find our way back, right?

(Can't Find My Way Home - Blind Faith)

 

[Leaf473]

I feel like I'm at a cross-roads in my faith. I'll always believe in God but I have zero faith that He cares except for those he favors. Anyway, my question(rhetorical one) is this, why is it wrong to bash parents that have kids but fail to care for them?

Immediately people say," They didn't ask to come here, when you have kids you need to provide the best life possible for them." All of this I agree with. I know the answer to this question but with God there's so many of us that didn't ask to be here but people reply with the opposite saying, " God owes you nothing, be grateful and what not"

If I said that to my kid I would be considered toxic. I just think like Why is it ok for God to create millions of people, some that have horrendous lives, Lonely lives, struggle with mental illness and He just watches them struggle?

This along with the verse He has mercy on whomever he wills makes me want to give up on God honestly.

The only way I can make this okay in my head and heart is to cancel out his power. I'd understand if He just couldn't help and was doing the best He could BUT the fact He can and choose not to disturbs me alot.

Idk I need some answers because I just don't see God the same.

Hi Olivet I'm glad you're here!
I don't know if this will help or not, but
I like to use the "best of all possible worlds idea".

The world is the way it is because we have free will, the ability to choose our actions. Some people choose to hurt others, and that's why there's evil. But if God were to remove our ability to choose, our existence wouldn't be as good of an experience, we'd be more like robots.

I believe God fixes everything, rewards the good and punishes the evil, after we die. This world is not "the real life", it's more like a waiting room while we wait to enter "real life".