Why is this ok when God does it but bad when we(humans) do this?

[aiki]

I feel like I'm at a cross-roads in my faith. I'll always believe in God but I have zero faith that He cares except for those he favors.

Really? What do you think all the good things He has placed in the world indicate about Him, exactly? Gorgeous sunsets and sunrises, humor, good food, amazing mountain vistas, thunderous oceans, sex, music, literature, the vast, starry sky overhead - these are enjoyed by the wicked and the righteous alike. Why would a God like you describe above, make it possible for such good things to be enjoyed by those who despise and reject Him? Maybe God isn't the way you think He is.

What about Jesus? What about what he did for you and me at the cross of Calvary? The Bible says he atoned for the sins of the World, not just a select few. Why, if God is as you say He is?

Immediately people say," They didn't ask to come here, when you have kids you need to provide the best life possible for them." All of this I agree with. I know the answer to this question but with God there's so many of us that didn't ask to be here but people reply with the opposite saying, " God owes you nothing, be grateful and what not"

God owes us nothing but He gives us the greatest thing in all the universe: Himself. And then He bestows on us all the many good things of this world, too, some of which I already listed.

I just think like Why is it ok for God to create millions of people, some that have horrendous lives, Lonely lives, struggle with mental illness and He just watches them struggle?

But how do you know He "just watches them struggle"? Especially if there are millions of people like this, it is impossible for you to know what God has done in the lives of them all. You are assuming your perception of God is correct but this suggests a prejudice on your part toward God, not anything that is necessarily true of Him.

The corruption, disease, violence and death infecting the world is Man's fault, not God's. God has acted to mitigate the effects of human wickedness, though, through His Son, Jesus. God has given us the freedom to choose evil so that we might be free also to choose Him and His righteousness. To counter every evil choice people make would be to make us prisoners of His will, without genuine freedom to choose and so without the freedom to love Him, which is what He wants. He must allow the fruit of our sin to manifest in all its horribleness, then.

God offers us Himself to the World. All who come to Him will find themselves received by Him with joy. There is no one excluded from His offer of love and transformation. But we must choose Him. The lonely, and depressed, and suicidal may find in Him joy, and peace, and contentment; the sick and weary may find rest in Him; the addicted may find freedom and strength in Him. But God will not force Himself upon us. He draws us, and gives us repentance to the acknowledging of the truth, convicts us of our sin, and imparts to us faith, but we must respond and receive from Him the gift of salvation and redemption in Jesus Christ.

So, God isn't just sitting back watching us all struggle but has been, and is, very active, working to persuade as many of those millions you mentioned to a relationship with Him as possible.

This along with the verse He has mercy on whomever he wills makes me want to give up on God honestly.

Does God not have the right to do as He likes in His universe? Is He not God?

 

[Jackierose]

True but he gives everyone a different measure of grace and that can be seen in people's lives. One person may have a good upbringing, friends, married and still have God. The other abused, lonely, struggling. Why the difference? why would God give one person more blessings and favor than the other. Yes God died for all but the first person I mention has that and a bit more. (Both people are real life examples)

Also, that scripture I mentioned wasn't explained (He has mercy on whom ever he wills) Is that why some people have bad lives and others good lives?

God has mercy on all his creation. Throughout history, it has always been the chosen people that rejected God and followed their own path.
Isaiah 65:2 All day long I have held out My hands to an obstinate people who walk in the wrong path, who follow their own imaginations.
Matt 23:37 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

 

[Olivet]

God definitely favours some and causes others a hard time. What I cant say is whether He just leaves them to Satans attack or is actively involved, but there are definitely Christians out there who suffer misfortune and suffering that goes far beyond simple chance.
And people use Job as an example of someone who god has allowed to suffer, but in reality he was someone who was greatly blessed by God and most importantly protected by God for nearly all his life. He only suffered for a short time when Satan came to God to ask God to remove the hedge of protection He had put around Job. And after this short while of suffering God blessed him more than before. So for nearly all his life Job received direct protection from God and was given great success in life. Job to me is someone I see as greatly blessed by God. Why does God choose to bless people like he blessed Job?
The only comfort I can give to people who God allows to suffer constantly is the rich man and Lazarus. Im just hoping the people who suffer in this life get the greatest blessing in the next.

Right this is true, He was blessed before and after. I don't have answers either I'm just spouting off I guess.

Dear Olivet,
Don’t rebel against God. Don’t defy Him.
I understand that you are discouraged but don’t speak that you will regret.

Many gets discouraged but many find strength through accepting their own weaknesses, inabilities, and spiritual poverty.
Then start relying on His strength.

Dear olivet,
I understand that you are disturbed.
Calm yourself and sort through.

Though you don’t understand God, don’t hate Him or rebel against Him. It won’t do good.

Repent and seek help to understand what you don’t understand about God.

Eventually, you will appreciate love from God the way you should.

Im sorry but I don't feel love for God. I just know without a shadow off a doubt He exists.I don't understand why he's so elusive in my life if Im honest I truly wish he'd give me my hearts desire so I can finally be happy and I won't bother him again because I can't trust Him for not being there for me and just watching me be miserable.

Really? What do you think all the good things He has placed in the world indicate about Him, exactly? Gorgeous sunsets and sunrises, humor, good food, amazing mountain vistas, thunderous oceans, sex, music, literature, the vast, starry sky overhead - these are enjoyed by the wicked and the righteous alike. Why would a God like you describe above, make it possible for such good things to be enjoyed by those who despise and reject Him? Maybe God isn't the way you think He is.

What about Jesus? What about what he did for you and me at the cross of Calvary? The Bible says he atoned for the sins of the World, not just a select few. Why, if God is as you say He is?



God owes us nothing but He gives us the greatest thing in all the universe: Himself. And then He bestows on us all the many good things of this world, too, some of which I already listed.



But how do you know He "just watches them struggle"? Especially if there are millions of people like this, it is impossible for you to know what God has done in the lives of them all. You are assuming your perception of God is correct but this suggests a prejudice on your part toward God, not anything that is necessarily true of Him.

The corruption, disease, violence and death infecting the world is Man's fault, not God's. God has acted to mitigate the effects of human wickedness, though, through His Son, Jesus. God has given us the freedom to choose evil so that we might be free also to choose Him and His righteousness. To counter every evil choice people make would be to make us prisoners of His will, without genuine freedom to choose and so without the freedom to love Him, which is what He wants. He must allow the fruit of our sin to manifest in all its horribleness, then.

God offers us Himself to the World. All who come to Him will find themselves received by Him with joy. There is no one excluded from His offer of love and transformation. But we must choose Him. The lonely, and depressed, and suicidal may find in Him joy, and peace, and contentment; the sick and weary may find rest in Him; the addicted may find freedom and strength in Him. But God will not force Himself upon us. He draws us, and gives us repentance to the acknowledging of the truth, convicts us of our sin, and imparts to us faith, but we must respond and receive from Him the gift of salvation and redemption in Jesus Christ.

So, God isn't just sitting back watching us all struggle but has been, and is, very active, working to persuade as many of those millions you mentioned to a relationship with Him as possible.



Does God not have the right to do as He likes in His universe? Is He not God?

1. God likes nice things

2. If I told my son I owed him nothing I'd be the biggest a-hole in the world. When people say that about God it makes me dislike him more.

3. See 2nd response.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Right this is true, He was blessed before and after. I don't have answers either I'm just spouting off I guess.


Im sorry but I don't feel love for God. I just know without a shadow off a doubt He exists.I don't understand why he's so elusive in my life if Im honest I truly wish he'd give me my hearts desire so I can finally be happy and I won't bother him again because I can't trust Him for not being there for me and just watching me be miserable.


1. God likes nice things

2. If I told my son I owed him nothing I'd be the biggest a-hole in the world. When people say that about God it makes me dislike him more.

3. See 2nd response.

Jesus (GOD) paid the price for the majority of the world's sins. So God has given us something available to us that is very very precious if we so choose to accept it of our own free will. It is the free gift of eternal life and the gift of the Holy Spirit. We receive the gift of eternal life if we come to the Lord and seek forgiveness of our sins with Jesus and believe that He died for our sins and He was buried, and He was risen three days later on our behalf for salvation. We will then receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, and thus as a result, we will have the fruits of love, joy, peace, etc.

For you need to remember that GOD so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but they shall have everlasting life. GOD so love the world. His Son suffered very much because He wanted us to be in His kingdom and to share in His love here in this Earth.

For it was not the nails that kept Jesus upon the cross. At any moment, He could have said, “I am out of here” and He could have been off the cross by His own power in a nano second. So what truly held Jesus upon the cross was His love for you and me.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

" God owes you nothing, be grateful and what not"

I always hated that answer, 90% given by Calvinists, around notions of Absolute Depravity etc. It's technically true, but often unhelpful, and I think it tempts people into wanting to believe that God is something like the Gnostic Demiurge. It reminded me of an uncle who said believed in "the Golden rule" but it wasn't the one of the Bible, but "the person with the gold makes the rules".


I have been ruminating on some areas of past myself, as far as long standing problems, complaints etc. that have lasted decades or all of my life. But in reflecting on that, I remember someone like Abraham. For being the Chosen one, he sure waited a long time for the promise. He was 70 when he was called by God. I'm sure he thought that moment would immediately change his situation about not having a son or any heir. But he ended up waiting another 30 years to be a father, when people if they were lucky to live that long would be at least Great Grand Parents.


And this thing is not that unique to just Abraham. Many people had to wait a long time for their salvation, or to see their promise, or inheritance. There were lots of people who lived in slavery, or exile that never got to see it, only believe in the future of it someday for their descendants.

 

[aiki]

1. God likes nice things

As I said, why, if God was as you described Him, would He make these "nice things" available to all and not just to Himself and His own?

God certainly didn't need to make things the way He did, or to make anything at all, for that matter. He was perfect prior to Creation and is not in any way improved by having made the universe and all the wonderful things in it that you and I enjoy. Chocolate, and good music, and laughter are all things He made possible for our sakes, to enrich our existence, not to enrich His.

2. If I told my son I owed him nothing I'd be the biggest a-hole in the world. When people say that about God it makes me dislike him more.

But you aren't God. You're making what's called a category error in your thinking. God is not a human; He's in a category of being all by Himself. Comparing yourself to Him, then, or extrapolating from your experience to His, as though your experience somehow shapes and confines God's, is inappropriate. God possesses divine prerogatives as the Creator and Sustainer of Everything that you don't and this shows up in how God deals with us and in the fact that He doesn't owe us anything.

And the fact is, as I already pointed out, God takes far greater pains to care for us than you seem to want to give Him credit for. Your unwillingness to admit this just points to a prejudice toward God that you hold, not to some genuine deficiency in God.

 

[SANTOSO]

Right this is true, He was blessed before and after. I don't have answers either I'm just spouting off I guess.


Im sorry but I don't feel love for God. I just know without a shadow off a doubt He exists.I don't understand why he's so elusive in my life if Im honest I truly wish he'd give me my hearts desire so I can finally be happy and I won't bother him again because I can't trust Him for not being there for me and just watching me be miserable.


1. God likes nice things

2. If I told my son I owed him nothing I'd be the biggest a-hole in the world. When people say that about God it makes me dislike him more.

3. See 2nd response.

Dear Olivet,
Have you considered why this is written:

Many are the sorrows of the wicked, but steadfast love surrounds the one who trusts in the LORD. -Psalms 32:10

We must learn to trust God’s steadfast love in many areas of our life, then the manifestation of that steadfast love surround us !

May you draw closer to God through Christ.

 

[Robin Mauro]

Olivet, sorry to bug you. You have been on my mind. Not sure if you are still following this, but I wanted to share a couple more things with you. The "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy" scripture, also relates back to Pharoh, and God hardening his heart. What many people miss in this I think, is that Pharoh had already hardened his own heart; God just hardened it further, for His own purposes, and His own glory. God knew he (Pharoh) was not going to choose to change; not going to choose to do the right thing.
Also, read 2 Timothy 2:20 & 21.
Someone in another thread pointed this out recently, so I can't believe I forgot to mention it. I had not made the connection before.
Vessels can choose to change.

21, vessels of honour and dishonour...22 If any man therefore shall cleanse himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour; sanctified and profitable to the Lord, prepared unto every good work."
God is nothing if not just, and thankfully, He is not only just, He is also merciful.
I've been praying for you. Please pray for me too.

 

[Robin Mauro]

True but he gives everyone a different measure of grace and that can be seen in people's lives. One person may have a good upbringing, friends, married and still have God. The other abused, lonely, struggling. Why the difference? why would God give one person more blessings and favor than the other. Yes God died for all but the first person I mention has that and a bit more. (Both people are real life examples)

Also, that scripture I mentioned wasn't explained (He has mercy on whom ever he wills) Is that why some people have bad lives and others good lives?

I have known people who struggled their whole lives, one bad thing after another, and they are the deepest, wisest, most loving and generous people I know.
And I have known people who are rich, born with a silver spoon in their mouth, and they were the most shallow people who did not care about others or the deep things of life and God at all.
Who is better off, in an eternal sense, and even here and now?
My dsughter was dating a guy with a lot of money years ago. He bought her a very expensive pair of boots. Well my girl knew a number of people who were homeless, and she gave those boots away to one of them, her friend, with the same size feet.
I had never been so proud of my girl as that day. She didn't have money, and she could've used those boots. But her friend who was homeless needed them more.
The guy was furious, and that was the end of that relationship (thankfully).
At a later time, when I was questioning God about so many suffering, and so many homeless, my daughter reminded me that God takes care of those who are homeless too.
(We as a society should too... There should be noone homeless)
But God is in the details, and we don't always see what He is doing. He brings us to a certain point then tests our trust, our faith.
I don't suppose you live near Grass Valley, Ca. ? I could use some Christian fellowship.
Take good care Olivet.
Love to you,
Robin

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

I feel like I'm at a cross-roads in my faith.............. I just don't see God the same.

Your post deals with pain and suffering in this life. Questions of the human experience - Why the suffering? Where is the love? Where's the justice?? etc..

A grieving mother of two adult sons talked to me about it years after.
She said "Well, you want answers. But, there aren't any".
I assume she meant explanations (biblical or philosophical), advice, bible verses, motivational talks from christians - none of it satisfies the grief.

I will break my own rule here and post this scripture.
"...You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life..."
I think it means that - even if you got the answers to the questions you're asking - they wouldn't satisfy the pain and grief.

I use the following to help me deal with hellish experiences on earth;

• Purpose to suffering. I believe we have an important job to do in eternity - for God's kingdom. To qualify us, we need to experience this worldly life - otherwise, we would be bad judges. I don't think we grieve or suffer in vain. I think it's leading up to an important job in the next life.
• Relationships. Where explanations fail - good, quality friendships can help. You're friends won't have the answers or the wisdom. It's not their answers that help anyway - it's simpler than that. It's 1) They love you. 2) They are with you.
• Faith. I think this might look like "Who you think God is" and "How you react to that". Never mind what you're told about God - Who do you really think God is? My faith is this:
  • God is love.
  • God loves me personally.
  • God likes me personally.
  • God looks at my views on Christianity / Faith / Religion / Reality and thinks, I don't know what I'm talking about. God finds that lovingly amusing and intends on teaching me, but it will take time. My education from God will culminate in developing a spirit/mind/consciousness/strength that can handle and contain His reality. Thor Odinson expressed the sentiment well, except he was talking about special weapons haha "Thor : No. You simply lack the strength to wield them. Your bodies would crumble as your minds collapsed into madness."
  • If I suffer, God might not shield me, because, He has big plans for me (all of us). I can't imagine what that might be, but I reckon it's BIG.
  • Hope. I hope for better days to come. I pray for them. I do think God is good and better days are in my destiny - this life or the next (Both I hope).
  • Sense of Humour. We take ourselves and life too seriously !! A sense of humour can help us relax and have a little fun.

In summary, the intellectual might not be the best place to look for satisfactory answers. You'll likely end up pointlessly swapping bible verses and finding contradictions. The spirit world might have better answers (relationships, loving/being loved, loving God, finding out who God is, being hopeful, cultivating a good sense of humour, finding purpose in hardship, enjoying being liked by God etc etc).
I'd try hard to deal with God directly and determine for myself who I think God is. Contemplative Prayer? Really look for God.

Hope that helps?? Let me know if so??

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Olivet

I disagree with those Christians who say that God does not owe us anything. It is in the very nature of God to love and care for us. God takes care of even the birds.

“Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?” (Matthew 6:26).

Even the poor are fed by Christians.
You have to think there are others out there who have it far worse than you do.
There are Christians in China who are in prison and they suffer greatly for the faith.
There are Christians who are persecuted and tortured because of Jesus.

The question is.... what are we loving more?
Are we seeking only a comfortable life only? Or are we looking to live for Jesus Christ because He loved us so much that He died for you and me? Whether we live or die, it is unto the Lord. For the sufferings of this present world shall not compare to the glory that shall be revealed in us.

For we also have to understand that sin can destroy a person's life, as well. The sinful things we done here can affect our lives. Psalms 37:25 says, “I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.” So if bad things are happening to us, we must look to ourselves to blame and not GOD. Our sin can cause problems for us. We need to repent and return to the Lord our God. We need to draw near to GOD and He will draw near to us. But it may not be sin. It may be a lack of faith. For if we abide in GOD or the Lord Jesus Christ by faith we will have everything we need. We will have a peace, and a joy, and a love so powerful and so comforting that anything in this outside world will not affect us. For we will be moved to want to love GOD and others by faith. We will want to read His Word and we will want to pray to GOD every day. We will walk by faith and not by sight. Why? Because without faith it is impossible to please God. This means trusting in God beyond our outside circumstances and or what we see. When we take that step of faith in believing God's Word we will then be able to see. We will be able to have the experience of GOD and the comfort He brings. For do not look to outside things to give you comfort, but look to GOD who is unseen to bring you comfort and joy in this life.

Colossians 3:2 says, “Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.”

Is not those things that bring you suffering something here upon this Earth? Set your affections on things above and they will bring you joy and comfort. Christians who can suffer and be persecuted for their faith can even praise God admist of their suffering and pain. How is that? Because GOD lives in them and the joy GOD brings them is their rock, and their comfort. The promises of GOD in being in His kingdom gives them a reason to rejoice.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Olivet

Here are some videos of encouragement.

 

[Rosalie37]

God loves us all and died for each of us. He never lets go of us, but it us who let go of Him. He favors those who love Him, except Him, have faith in Him and obey. God is a God of love and seek Him with all your heart and ye shall find.

A lot of people are the way they are because they let go of God or never knew Him. Satan is very busy indeed, but God gives us all free will to choose. Choose God, satan wins the war but loses the battle.

Don’t give up. God bless.

luke 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the paris shuttle airport transfers died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Hello, I would like to share with you something very important, life without Jesus without prayer is equivalent to a dead life that does not even deserve to be lived! Let's honor God with all we have today! peace

 

[The Transcendentian]

I feel like I'm at a cross-roads in my faith. I'll always believe in God but I have zero faith that He cares except for those he favors. Anyway, my question(rhetorical one) is this, why is it wrong to bash parents that have kids but fail to care for them?

Immediately people say," They didn't ask to come here, when you have kids you need to provide the best life possible for them." All of this I agree with. I know the answer to this question but with God there's so many of us that didn't ask to be here but people reply with the opposite saying, " God owes you nothing, be grateful and what not"

If I said that to my kid I would be considered toxic. I just think like Why is it ok for God to create millions of people, some that have horrendous lives, Lonely lives, struggle with mental illness and He just watches them struggle?

This along with the verse He has mercy on whomever he wills makes me want to give up on God honestly.

The only way I can make this okay in my head and heart is to cancel out his power. I'd understand if He just couldn't help and was doing the best He could BUT the fact He can and choose not to disturbs me alot.

Idk I need some answers because I just don't see God the same.

Don't take my word for it because I don't have the answers to difficult questions, but here is what I think:

God can do no wrong because He defines right and wrong, His will and His commands are what make right and wrong. God owns everything and everyone that exists and has the right to do with them as He will.

God works all things for the good of those who love Him. This doesn't mean He makes people feel good or even feel alright. Often times most likely I think the suffering that God allows us to endure is what He knows is best for us. God doesn't want us to have the kind of life we want to have, He wants us to have the kind of life we need to have.

 

[HARK!]

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