Why I fear Church

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Why don’t you two start a new thread. This is the OP’s thread.

While masturbation is soooo interesting, the OP needs advice.

I didn't start the conversation regarding masturbation, I only gave a comment

 

[Andrew77]

I am kind of scared to go to church. I struggle with same-sex attraction and I know that homosexuality is sin. I do not live the lifestyle but I still struggle with lust, which the Bible calls adultery and idolatry. My biggest fear is that the people inside the church will not be very kind to me. I see so many threads of people fighting about homosexuality and most people don't understand the struggles. I know that same-sex attraction is very unnatural and it makes people uncomfortable.

You have many people who are very uncomfortable with homosexuals in the church, but then those of us who want to obey God and be Christians who struggled with the desire see all the fighting and quarreling that the church is having about homosexuality. And some people seem very unmerciful. Yeah, they are your speaking the truth about Sin but they seem very nasty about it. I don't know. It makes me not want to go to church. Not because I am afraid of hearing the truth because I already know the truth and I know what scripture says about it, but because people seem to speak the truth without love.

The question is am I wrong about that?

Say that you have a professor who is very intelligent. He is your instructor and he will be your instructor for the rest of the school year. When you do your school work, you want to know if you are doing it right or if you are getting it wrong. But every time he corrects your mistakes he makes you feel like a complete stupid. You want to know what you're doing wrong but you just hate the way that he is correcting your mistakes.

Will it be better to be homeschooled and teach yourself or to continue to be taught by this guy that makes you feel stupid every time he corrects correct your mistakes, even though you are learning from him?

That's the way it seems sometimes with Christians. They do speak the truth about Sin but sometimes they just don't seem very loving about it.

I am not going around saying they are all so judgemental. We are all judgemental in many ways. I just sometimes wish that people could be less harsh in their judgments.

I don't know. Maybe I am completely in the wrong. I don't know what advice you can give me to be perfectly honest.

I just don't want to go to church and make people uncomfortable. But I also don't want to go to church and feel condemned.

Will God still accept me if I just stay at home and worship him?

I don't think so. Perhaps it's just me, but "not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near." Hebrews 10:25 seems to indicate that a Christian should meet with Christians for worship.

It doesn't say you are doomed if you don't go... but.... (you'll have to wrestle with that on your own)

Obviously there is nothing inherently evil about studying the bible on your own.

I guess I'm confused about two things.

1. How are you getting these response from people? Do you walk into church, and Tammy walks by "HI john! By the way, Homosexuality is a sin and evil! See you after Church!"?

I guess my real question is, are you instigating these responses? Because I've been going to church for 20 years. I can count the number of times homosexuality has come up in Church, on one hand. I think if you include bible study groups, and other church functions, maybe hands and feet. Maybe 20 times in 20 years.

Perhaps your church is different. Or perhaps you are over sensitive? Or perhaps you are bringing this subject up? I'm just confused by this.

There have been times where I struggled with lust. I never had someone come up and tell me lust is evil and wrong, and it didn't bother me the once or twice in a whole year that the pastor preached that lust was wrong.

2. You say that their response is true, but doesn't seem loving. What exactly do you expect from them?

As a Christian, in a Christian church, if I asked about homosexuality, I would expect them to quote from the Christian bible. The Christian Bible doesn't have any good things to say about homosexuality. So I don't know what the "loving" answer is.

Beyond the universal loving answer that all Christians know, and is the basis of our entire belief system. 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

We know that if we turn away from what is evil, then our wonderful and loving father, will forgive us.

But if you are simply asking people about homosexuality, what 'loving' answer is there? There is none. The loving answer is to repent and turn away from it.

I guess I'm just confused as what you think their answer should be.

Because if I was in my bible group at church (which years ago I was), and I told people that the pastors wife was smoking hawt, and sometimes I thought about having sex with her (which she was, but I did not think about having sex with her).... I would not expect a 'loving' response to that evil.

I would expect to hear verses like Hebrews 13:4 "Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. "

What else would I expect from Christians in a Christian church?

Now... to be fair, I wouldn't expect them to start screaming hate at me. If that is what they are doing, that's different. But you didn't say that.

However, I wouldn't expect people to come give me a hug after saying something like that. And I wouldn't say something to instigate a response to begin with.

So I guess what I'm saying is, based on what little you have shared with us, it 'appears'... to me that you might be a little unreasonable.

I could be wrong.

My advice is, keep going to church, but don't bring up homosexuality, and if you do, or someone else does, don't expect a non-bible related response. The Bible has nothing good to say about homosexuality. So asking Bible believers about homosexuality is not going to have a warm fuzzy loving response.

 

[Sabertooth]

@Andrew77 ,
I don't have any experience with gay attraction, but I've been around different churches (in my travels).

• A mature congregation will view homosexuality on the same level as heterosexual adultery/fornication.
• An immature congregation tends to classify sins in a man-made hierarchy, where hetero-sin is seen as more natural (read excusable) and homosexuality is seen as more unnatural (read inexcusable). They put more requirements on the latter than just repentance.

My reading of the OP is that our brother has had some run-ins with the latter.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Well church is supposed to be the "hospital" for the "spiritually" sick.People do tend to judge without understanding that Jesus promoted love and forgiveness.If you're serious about going to church then go. My prayer is that you'll find one that promotes love instead of hate.It might take some time but don't give up.
Blessings.

It’s not hate when the Bible itself does not promote or agree with it.

I think people throw around ‘hate’ like people hate people, but if it’s a theological issue you either agree with God’s Word or you don’t.

That’s not hate.

 

[Introverted1293]

I don't think so. Perhaps it's just me, but "not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near." Hebrews 10:25 seems to indicate that a Christian should meet with Christians for worship.

It doesn't say you are doomed if you don't go... but.... (you'll have to wrestle with that on your own)

Obviously there is nothing inherently evil about studying the bible on your own.

I guess I'm confused about two things.

1. How are you getting these response from people? Do you walk into church, and Tammy walks by "HI john! By the way, Homosexuality is a sin and evil! See you after Church!"?

I guess my real question is, are you instigating these responses? Because I've been going to church for 20 years. I can count the number of times homosexuality has come up in Church, on one hand. I think if you include bible study groups, and other church functions, maybe hands and feet. Maybe 20 times in 20 years.

Perhaps your church is different. Or perhaps you are over sensitive? Or perhaps you are bringing this subject up? I'm just confused by this.

There have been times where I struggled with lust. I never had someone come up and tell me lust is evil and wrong, and it didn't bother me the once or twice in a whole year that the pastor preached that lust was wrong.

2. You say that their response is true, but doesn't seem loving. What exactly do you expect from them?

As a Christian, in a Christian church, if I asked about homosexuality, I would expect them to quote from the Christian bible. The Christian Bible doesn't have any good things to say about homosexuality. So I don't know what the "loving" answer is.

Beyond the universal loving answer that all Christians know, and is the basis of our entire belief system. 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

We know that if we turn away from what is evil, then our wonderful and loving father, will forgive us.

But if you are simply asking people about homosexuality, what 'loving' answer is there? There is none. The loving answer is to repent and turn away from it.

I guess I'm just confused as what you think their answer should be.

Because if I was in my bible group at church (which years ago I was), and I told people that the pastors wife was smoking hawt, and sometimes I thought about having sex with her (which she was, but I did not think about having sex with her).... I would not expect a 'loving' response to that evil.

I would expect to hear verses like Hebrews 13:4 "Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. "

What else would I expect from Christians in a Christian church?

Now... to be fair, I wouldn't expect them to start screaming hate at me. If that is what they are doing, that's different. But you didn't say that.

However, I wouldn't expect people to come give me a hug after saying something like that. And I wouldn't say something to instigate a response to begin with.

So I guess what I'm saying is, based on what little you have shared with us, it 'appears'... to me that you might be a little unreasonable.

I could be wrong.

My advice is, keep going to church, but don't bring up homosexuality, and if you do, or someone else does, don't expect a non-bible related response. The Bible has nothing good to say about homosexuality. So asking Bible believers about homosexuality is not going to have a warm fuzzy loving response.

No, I am not instigating these responses. I don't even talk to Christians about it, except online when the subject is brought up usually by other people. I bring it up after it is brought up.

I don't know exactly know what church life is like. I haven't been involved in church in years. I have as a kid but as an adult not so much. But I have seen Christians and how they respond to homosexuality, and they seem more angry about homosexuality the than any other sin. Some of them even call homosexuals reprobate, and they are Beyond Redemption. Sorry about the capital letters I am talking through my phone.

Look at how many arguments there are concerning homosexuals. People want to know if it's the worst sin or if it's just like any other sin. And then I saw the polls on how Christians feel about homosexuals. Most of them are very uncomfortable around them.

I don't really have to go around telling people that I am gay for people to wonder if I am gay. I mean, I am single and I don't have a girlfriend. I'm not very masculine. All those things already make people wonder about me.

And yes, I will tell somebody that tries to get to know me and tries to become my friend. I cannot be friends with someone that hates homosexuals. Because if they hate homosexuals then they will hate me. And homosexuality is an extremely big topic right now.

People tell me that I don't need to go around telling people that and that is correct. I don't go out to strangers and tell them that I am gay. But sexuality seems like a topic that always brought up.

Now, you say that people in the church don't really talk about it all that much. Well, I didn't know that. Like I said, I haven't been to church in years. But the topic of homosexuality on Christian forums, and on the news concerning Christians and Christianity keep coming up. And so that is how I've been seeing the church. I have been seeing them through the media's eyes, and from what I've seen on the forums. But I don't know what church is like personally because I haven't been to church in years. I remember it as a kid and of course as a kid my experience would be different then as an adult.

But I also bring it up so I can get prayer to overcome my same-sex attraction.

What do I expect from the church? To be perfectly honest I don't really expect anything anymore.

 

[Introverted1293]

It’s not hate when the Bible itself does not promote or agree with it.

I think people throw around ‘hate’ like people hate people, but if it’s a theological issue you either agree with God’s Word or you don’t.

That’s not hate.

Well, I wasn't really saying that it seemed like the church was is hateful simply because they speak the truth about Sin.

It's just that Christians seem more angry when talking about homosexuality then when they talk about any other sin. I know why they say that they are angry. Because of all the Prides and suing a business and all of that, but sometimes it seems like it's much more than just that.

 

[Introverted1293]

@Andrew77 ,
I don't have any experience with gay attraction, but I've been around different churches (in my travels).

• A mature congregation will view homosexuality on the same level as heterosexual adultery/fornication.
• An immature congregation tends to classify sins in a man-made hierarchy, where hetero-sin is seen as more natural (read excusable) and homosexuality is seen as more unnatural (read inexcusable). They put more requirements on the latter than just repentance.

My reading of the OP is that our brother has had some run-ins with the latter.

Well, not usually in churches because I haven't been in church in years but from what I've seen on the forums and being around other Christians like at work or something, yeah that is completely true.

 

[Sabertooth]

And yes, I will tell somebody that tries to get to know me and tries to become my friend. I cannot be friends with someone that hates homosexuals. Because if they hate homosexuals then they will hate me. And homosexuality is an extremely big topic right now.

Do you tell them that you are homosexual, or an ex-homosexual? (That will make a difference in some circles.)

 

[teresa]

your op makes me cry introverted

(((HUGS)))

 

[Introverted1293]

your op makes me cry introverted

(((HUGS)))

Sorry

I didn't mean to.

I am actually happy. I didn't mean to make anyone sad. I actually have no problem not attending a church, but my fear is that it is going to anger God. I am not oppressed or anything at all. My life is good. I apologize if I made myself out to be some kind of martyr. I am not. I was just afraid to go to church.

But thank you again for your concern. God bless you @hope

 

[Introverted1293]

Do you tell them that you are homosexual, or an ex-homosexual? (That will make a difference in some circles.)

That's a good question

I usually tell them that I am, even though I don't engage in that lifestyle.

 

[Sabertooth]

I usually tell them that I am, even though I don't engage in that lifestyle.

If you have chosen to repent, you are no longer gay. You might still struggle with temptation, but it is no longer your identity.

If you still embrace it as your identity, you are communicating that you have not repented (even if that isn't your intention). That will definitely evoke some backlash.

 

[Introverted1293]

If you have chosen to repent, you are no longer gay. You might still struggle with temptation, but it is no longer your identity.

If you still embrace it as your identity, you are communicating that you have not repented (even if that isn't your intention). That will definitely evoke some backlash.

I know that is true.

I also might be the cause of some of the negativity in my life.

 

[Joe 73]

I am kind of scared to go to church. I struggle with same-sex attraction and I know that homosexuality is sin. I do not live the lifestyle but I still struggle with lust, which the Bible calls adultery and idolatry. My biggest fear is that the people inside the church will not be very kind to me. I see so many threads of people fighting about homosexuality and most people don't understand the struggles. I know that same-sex attraction is very unnatural and it makes people uncomfortable.

You have many people who are very uncomfortable with homosexuals in the church, but then those of us who want to obey God and be Christians who struggled with the desire see all the fighting and quarreling that the church is having about homosexuality. And some people seem very unmerciful. Yeah, they are your speaking the truth about Sin but they seem very nasty about it. I don't know. It makes me not want to go to church. Not because I am afraid of hearing the truth because I already know the truth and I know what scripture says about it, but because people seem to speak the truth without love.

The question is am I wrong about that?

Say that you have a professor who is very intelligent. He is your instructor and he will be your instructor for the rest of the school year. When you do your school work, you want to know if you are doing it right or if you are getting it wrong. But every time he corrects your mistakes he makes you feel like a complete stupid. You want to know what you're doing wrong but you just hate the way that he is correcting your mistakes.

Will it be better to be homeschooled and teach yourself or to continue to be taught by this guy that makes you feel stupid every time he corrects correct your mistakes, even though you are learning from him?

That's the way it seems sometimes with Christians. They do speak the truth about Sin but sometimes they just don't seem very loving about it.

I am not going around saying they are all so judgemental. We are all judgemental in many ways. I just sometimes wish that people could be less harsh in their judgments.

I don't know. Maybe I am completely in the wrong. I don't know what advice you can give me to be perfectly honest.

I just don't want to go to church and make people uncomfortable. But I also don't want to go to church and feel condemned.

Will God still accept me if I just stay at home and worship him?

We aren't supposed to Judge, that's God's job, he knows the heart.
I struggle with it as well. The simple answer is that people are varied and imperfect. However, as a catholic, I have not seen anyone acting judgementally about gay people. There was some immaturity in younger people, like in highschool, but in general, people have been concerned about how they can love people while still affirming catholic beliefs.

We need fellowship. Christian fellowship. I don't think staying at home is a good idea. IF you look up, "The 4T's and the Church", its a pretty interesting website, challenging social taboos, talking about same sex intimacy and stuff.

 

[Introverted1293]

We aren't supposed to Judge, that's God's job, he knows the heart.
I struggle with it as well. The simple answer is that people are varied and imperfect. However, as a catholic, I have not seen anyone acting judgementally about gay people. There was some immaturity in younger people, like in highschool, but in general, people have been concerned about how they can love people while still affirming catholic beliefs.

We need fellowship. Christian fellowship. I don't think staying at home is a good idea. IF you look up, "The 4T's and the Church", its a pretty interesting website, challenging social taboos, talking about same sex intimacy and stuff.

Thank you very much.

 

[Sister glorious]

It’s not hate when the Bible itself does not promote or agree with it.

I think people throw around ‘hate’ like people hate people, but if it’s a theological issue you either agree with God’s Word or you don’t.

That’s not hate.

Okay.I get it.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Well, I wasn't really saying that it seemed like the church was is hateful simply because they speak the truth about Sin.

It's just that Christians seem more angry when talking about homosexuality then when they talk about any other sin. I know why they say that they are angry. Because of all the Prides and suing a business and all of that, but sometimes it seems like it's much more than just that.

I think that Christians get more angry when talking about homosexuality for two reasons. Reason #1, they don't personally struggle with that sin and lack compassion and reason #2 is because many believe it is a choice.

 

[Sal Robinson]

I personally don’t feel that homosexuality is part of God’s plan for us, but I don’t know what it’s like to be you, but I know you deserve to be loved, and you deserve to have people around you who support you….and you have to support them
It’s a two way street.
Start building other people up too.

 

[akaDaScribe]

If you go to a church and they mistreat you, give the name of that place.