Why do Progressives follow the racist Jim Crow One-Drop rule

Daniel Peres

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I have been confused as to why in America people like Barak Obama, Alicia Keys, Halle Berry, and Meghan Markle are considered black. It seems the racist one-drop rule is still in effect. I was raised by Cubans in a Cuban community and to Cubans, a person who is mixed with black and white do not just disregard their whiteness. Obama, Keys, and Berry were all raised by their single white mothers, yet they and the country consider them black. Just the other day, I was watching Django Unchained (Great Movie) and I noticed the Christoph Waltz character inform Leonardo Dicaprio that Alexandre Dumas (author of the Three Musketeers) was black. The fact is that Dumas had one grandmother that was black. He certainly was proud of his black ancestry, but he also considered himself French. But Quentin Tarantino seems to go by the racist one-drop rule and considers Dumas to have been black.

I just think it's ironic that the so-called "Anti-Racists" are continuing this Jim Crow tradition.
 

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When Barack Obama first emerged as a presidential candidate, I thought of his ethnicity similarly: With a black father and a white mother, he's biracial, equal parts "black" and "white".

What I saw during his presidency, though, was that a significant number of white American citizens were treating him as black, in the negative sense of "he's not one of us", "it's scandalous that a person like him should have power over white people", birther nonsense, etc. If your country is treating you according to the one-drop rule, and has been treating you this way for much of your life, then that's a particular experience you're living, and that experience is different from my life experience as a person with no recent African ancestry.

I'm not surprised that Cuban culture is different on this. Good for them.
 
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tz620q

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When Barack Obama first emerged as a presidential candidate, I thought of his ethnicity similarly: With a black father and a white mother, he's biracial, equal parts "black" and "white".

What I saw during his presidency, though, was that a significant number of white American citizens were treating him as black, in the negative sense of "he's not one of us", "it's scandalous that a person like him should have power over white people", birther nonsense, etc. If your country is treating you according to the one-drop rule, and has been treating you this way for much of your life, then that's a particular experience you're living, and that experience is different from my life experience as a person with no recent African ancestry.

I'm not surprised that Cuban culture is different on this. Good for them.
Still, I think Barack Obama leaned into this identification a lot. I never heard him correct anybody when he was called the first black U.S. president and say, "Well I am actually half white." I think the OP is trying to point to the biological fact of ancestry, not the social constructs of race relations. This becomes quite pertinent when you start talking about giving a group an advantage such as affirmative action based on racial identification. It will be interesting to read the Supreme Court's opinions on the Harvard and UNC cases next summer and see what their take is on this.
 
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I have been confused as to why in America people like Barak Obama, Alicia Keys, Halle Berry, and Meghan Markle are considered black. It seems the racist one-drop rule is still in effect. I was raised by Cubans in a Cuban community and to Cubans, a person who is mixed with black and white do not just disregard their whiteness. Obama, Keys, and Berry were all raised by their single white mothers, yet they and the country consider them black. Just the other day, I was watching Django Unchained (Great Movie) and I noticed the Christoph Waltz character inform Leonardo Dicaprio that Alexandre Dumas (author of the Three Musketeers) was black. The fact is that Dumas had one grandmother that was black. He certainly was proud of his black ancestry, but he also considered himself French. But Quentin Tarantino seems to go by the racist one-drop rule and considers Dumas to have been black.

I just think it's ironic that the so-called "Anti-Racists" are continuing this Jim Crow tradition.
Notice that Obama is "Black" but George Zimmerman whose mother is Latino (Actually she is a mix of Latino and black ) is a newly coined race called "white Hispanic" a term "freshly minted" when that news about Trayvon went to press.
 
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RDKirk

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I have been confused as to why in America people like Barak Obama, Alicia Keys, Halle Berry, and Meghan Markle are considered black. It seems the racist one-drop rule is still in effect. I was raised by Cubans in a Cuban community and to Cubans, a person who is mixed with black and white do not just disregard their whiteness. Obama, Keys, and Berry were all raised by their single white mothers, yet they and the country consider them black. Just the other day, I was watching Django Unchained (Great Movie) and I noticed the Christoph Waltz character inform Leonardo Dicaprio that Alexandre Dumas (author of the Three Musketeers) was black. The fact is that Dumas had one grandmother that was black. He certainly was proud of his black ancestry, but he also considered himself French. But Quentin Tarantino seems to go by the racist one-drop rule and considers Dumas to have been black.

I just think it's ironic that the so-called "Anti-Racists" are continuing this Jim Crow tradition.

First, the "one drop rule" even as a court legality has only passed out of effect since the 1980s. Remember that it's only been since 1967--when I was a teenager--that interracial marriage has even been legal throughout the US. The vast majority of light-skinned black people were a matter of light-skinned blacks marrying light-skinned blacks. There were very few interracial marriages because the social consequences were so profoundly negative. "Biracial" has only been a thing in the US since the 1990s.

Up until the 1970s, white people who "married black" effectively lost their "white cards." They lost their jobs, they lost their families, they even may have lost their homes. They lost their "white privileges"...being treated the same as black people, if not worse, by racist whites. That didn't turn around until the 1980s.

What that means is that bi-racial people in the US who are about 45 or older will tend to identify as "black" because that's how they were treated as children and how they were raised, it's how their white mothers taught them to survive.

What's happening now, though, is actually worse than the one-drop rule. Before, we had black and white. Recognizing bi-racials as an entirely separate category has not reduced racial tension, it's actually multiplied it. Like South Africa, we now have a "Colored" class. White people still don't accept them as white, but now black people don't accept them as black either. And for the first time, white people are actually treating them as though they were a group separate from blacks.

My daughter happens to be light skinned (a matter of how our genetic dice rolled...my DNA reveals that I'm 20% Scottish and my wife is 40% English, although you can't tell that by looking at us). Although my daughter's facial features and hair are distinctly Afroid, her skin is as light as, say, Halle Berry's skin.

She was a teenager in Nebraska and then central Illinois when that "biracial" breakout was beginning in the 90s, and suffered from being too dark for the whites and too light for the blacks (although she had been in Hawaii--like Obama--in her elementary school years, where her skin tone and facial features had fit right in).

She has recently discovered that in today's the workplace, she's unknowingly "enjoyed" bi-racial privilege. She discovered that when the CEO invited her into his office for a chat and began talking about his own biracial grandchildren. She realized, "Wait...he thinks I'm biracial. Is that how I got this job?"

As I said, it's only been since 1967 (when I was a teenager) that interracial marriage has even been legal in all the states. Don't expect the consequences of that to be erased while Boomers are still alive. It may even take the demise of the Millennial generation.
 
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RDKirk

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When Barack Obama first emerged as a presidential candidate, I thought of his ethnicity similarly: With a black father and a white mother, he's biracial, equal parts "black" and "white".

What I saw during his presidency, though, was that a significant number of white American citizens were treating him as black, in the negative sense of "he's not one of us", "it's scandalous that a person like him should have power over white people", birther nonsense, etc. If your country is treating you according to the one-drop rule, and has been treating you this way for much of your life, then that's a particular experience you're living, and that experience is different from my life experience as a person with no recent African ancestry.

I'm not surprised that Cuban culture is different on this. Good for them.

I've spoken to some dark-skinned Cubans about that. Cuban culture isn't different, they just don't display it in the same way. But what we call "colorism" (discrimination within the race by skin tone) is rampant in Cuba.
 
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I have been confused as to why in America people like Barak Obama, Alicia Keys, Halle Berry, and Meghan Markle are considered black. It seems the racist one-drop rule is still in effect. I was raised by Cubans in a Cuban community and to Cubans, a person who is mixed with black and white do not just disregard their whiteness. Obama, Keys, and Berry were all raised by their single white mothers, yet they and the country consider them black. Just the other day, I was watching Django Unchained (Great Movie) and I noticed the Christoph Waltz character inform Leonardo Dicaprio that Alexandre Dumas (author of the Three Musketeers) was black. The fact is that Dumas had one grandmother that was black. He certainly was proud of his black ancestry, but he also considered himself French. But Quentin Tarantino seems to go by the racist one-drop rule and considers Dumas to have been black.

I just think it's ironic that the so-called "Anti-Racists" are continuing this Jim Crow tradition.
Maybe because most of the US has never really had the idea of mulatto. New Orleans may have, maybe some settlements that were French owned at one point, but not most of the US. That makes it a cultural thing. Don't know why.
 
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RDKirk

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Maybe because most of the US has never really had the idea of mulatto. New Orleans may have, maybe some settlements that were French owned at one point, but not most of the US. That makes it a cultural thing. Don't know why.

We do now, and as I've said, it is not a good thing.
 
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tz620q

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No, it's not. But here's a question: why be obsessed with race at all? At work, we're required to record race, but everyone's money is the same color.
I work a lot with people from Europe. They get a good chuckle out of how Americans can recite our heritage as 1/4 this and 1/4 that. I agree with RDKirk though. The slave owner mentality of grading people by how "black" they are needs to be a bad relic from our past.
 
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RDKirk

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I work a lot with people from Europe. They get a good chuckle out of how Americans can recite our heritage as 1/4 this and 1/4 that. I agree with RDKirk though. The slave owner mentality of grading people by how "black" they are needs to be a bad relic from our past.
In Hawaii, people are proud and pleased to be able to recite their racial mixture, and often the more complex the mixture, the better. Race and racism has a very different dynamic in Hawaii from the Mainland. People can joke about each other's racial stereotypes and take it all in good humor.

There certainly can be hurtful racism, but it's a very different kind of thing from the way it is on the Mainland. I think it's because there isn't a single demographically dominant race, and the culturally dominant race (native Hawaiians) is one of the smallest demographic groups. On the Mainland, it would be as though native American culture was the dominant culture that everyone aspired to emulate...but native Americans themselves are a very small demographic. If that were the case, the difference between being black or white would be mitigated by both blacks and whites wishing they were native Americans.

My point, though, is that you can see in Hawaii a way that people can see color (acknowledge it, talk about it) and yet it not matter. I don't believe, don't trust the idea of "I don't see color." Of course you see the color.

The question is, do you make a snap judgment of a person's character and worth according to their color?

And, to be frank, there is certainly something for people to do within themselves to make sure that their color is not, in fact, a reliable indication of their character. A prejudice is not a prejudice if it is, in fact, statistically true.
 
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RDKirk

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No, it's not. But here's a question: why be obsessed with race at all? At work, we're required to record race, but everyone's money is the same color.

No, it's not. But here's a question: why be obsessed with race at all? At work, we're required to record race, but everyone's money is the same color.

I'm continually surprised that people with red hair are discriminated against in the UK. I'm continually surprised that a person born in England is not considered English if his ancestral heritage is from someone else.
 
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FreeinChrist

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I have been confused as to why in America people like Barak Obama, Alicia Keys, Halle Berry, and Meghan Markle are considered black. It seems the racist one-drop rule is still in effect. I was raised by Cubans in a Cuban community and to Cubans, a person who is mixed with black and white do not just disregard their whiteness. Obama, Keys, and Berry were all raised by their single white mothers, yet they and the country consider them black. Just the other day, I was watching Django Unchained (Great Movie) and I noticed the Christoph Waltz character inform Leonardo Dicaprio that Alexandre Dumas (author of the Three Musketeers) was black. The fact is that Dumas had one grandmother that was black. He certainly was proud of his black ancestry, but he also considered himself French. But Quentin Tarantino seems to go by the racist one-drop rule and considers Dumas to have been black.

I just think it's ironic that the so-called "Anti-Racists" are continuing this Jim Crow tradition.
I think you misunderstand. It is not a "progressive" thing to follow that rule. The director/writer had it in the movie because of the time period that the story in the movie takes place in.
 
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FreeinChrist

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Notice that Obama is "Black" but George Zimmerman whose mother is Latino (Actually she is a mix of Latino and black ) is a newly coined race called "white Hispanic" a term "freshly minted" when that news about Trayvon went to press.
Not true about the "freshly minted" comment. When there are boxes to check in forms like government or medical ones, the ethnic choices have included "White - NonHispanic" and ""White Hispanic" before Trayvon Martin and Zimmerman hit the news.
 
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Still, I think Barack Obama leaned into this identification a lot. I never heard him correct anybody when he was called the first black U.S. president and say, "Well I am actually half white." I think the OP is trying to point to the biological fact of ancestry, not the social constructs of race relations. This becomes quite pertinent when you start talking about giving a group an advantage such as affirmative action based on racial identification. It will be interesting to read the Supreme Court's opinions on the Harvard and UNC cases next summer and see what their take is on this.
He actually did say he was half white many times in his campaigns. He made it clear that his father left him and he was raised by his white mother.
However, a huge amount of people in the US saw him as black. He was the first biracial president as far as I know.
 
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Daniel Peres

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Notice that Obama is "Black" but George Zimmerman whose mother is Latino (Actually she is a mix of Latino and black ) is a newly coined race called "white Hispanic" a term "freshly minted" when that news about Trayvon went to press.
You make a good point. However, Hispanics have always been white. It is the non-white Hispanics that are new. From 1911 - the 1950's, the US Gov't used a certain book to classify races and ethnicities of the world. The book, which you can find for free online, is called the Dictionary of Races and Peoples. In that book Cubans and Mexicans are only people of pure Spanish ancestry. Any Cubans and Mexicans that were black or native American were not considered Cuban or Mexican. This was also true for the rest of Latin America whose people the U.S. Gov't called Spanish Americans as long as they did not have Black or Indian ancestry.
 
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Daniel Peres

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I've spoken to some dark-skinned Cubans about that. Cuban culture isn't different, they just don't display it in the same way. But what we call "colorism" (discrimination within the race by skin tone) is rampant in Cuba.
I didn't mean to make Cubans to be saints. There certainly is racism and colorism. However, consider the following:

1) inter-racial marriage was never illegal.
2) When Cubans arrived in the United States, they used to love to torment bus drivers by sitting in the back of the bus with black people.
3) Cuban culture has always combined different racial cultures. I am not black but I do own a conga drum. We even have some words that are pure African. I have spoken with Africans and learned that we some words that African. A good example is the word we use for "twin" unlike other spanish-speaking cultures we use the word Jimagua (Pronounced heemagwa) which is an African word.
4) Many white Cubans are not Christians and actually practice a pagan African religion.

As for colorism, it does exist in Cuban culture as it does exist in the U.S. I am an olive-skinned white person while my sister looks like an Irish girl. She is definitely higher on the totem pole than me. This is also true in the U.S., all of us Mediterranean Looking whites are very often told we are not white at all. And it's not just skin-tone. My high-school girlfriend was a redneck with brown hair, and she had a serious inferiority complex regarding blond, white women.

Colorism also happens in other races as well. The "High Yellow" blacks get treated better even among blacks. Asians have told me the same thing happens in their cultures too. Don't even get me started about the Asian Indians.

Personally, I love mixing the races. My wife, and a consequence my son, have a Pilipino ancestor, and I think that makes them very attractive.
 
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Daniel Peres

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I work a lot with people from Europe. They get a good chuckle out of how Americans can recite our heritage as 1/4 this and 1/4 that. I agree with RDKirk though. The slave owner mentality of grading people by how "black" they are needs to be a bad relic from our past.
Well French passports include their ancestry, so it’s not all Europeans.
 
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Daniel Peres

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Maybe because most of the US has never really had the idea of mulatto. New Orleans may have, maybe some settlements that were French owned at one point, but not most of the US. That makes it a cultural thing. Don't know why.
New Orleans was so racist that it actually has the record for the largest mass lynching. But it wasn’t blacks who were hanged. It was 11 Italians. The people of New Orleans did not even consider Italians to be white. After the incident Teddy Roosevelt wrote that the Mass lynching was a good thing.
 
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Daniel Peres

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I think you misunderstand. It is not a "progressive" thing to follow that rule. The director/writer had it in the movie because of the time period that the story in the movie takes place in.
I disagree. Southern whites at the time would not have mentioned a black person that can write novels. Furthermore, the character that said it was the German.
 
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