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LDS Why do Mormons think all Christians are in apostasy?

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mmksparbud

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my answer to your question

because mormons are taught that all christians are apostates. without this belief mormons have no religion. that's the same with JW's and SDA.

God bless

Speaking only for SDA's---Baloney--We have differences in interpretation of scriptures---we do not believe that all Christians are apostates!! Never heard of such a thing! You have it backwards--You guys think we are apostates and heretics!
 
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ToBeLoved

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my answer to your question

because mormons are taught that all christians are apostates. without this belief mormons have no religion. that's the same with JW's and SDA.

God bless
That is an interesting point in the fact that these false prophets had to say that Christians were apostates, otherwise why would their people follow them? They would just follow Christianity.

That makes a lot of sense.
 
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alexsonofmatthew

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Speaking only for SDA's---Baloney--We have differences in interpretation of scriptures---we do not believe that all Christians are apostates!! Never heard of such a thing! You have it backwards--You guys think we are apostates and heretics!

ellen white and sda teach that under Emperor Constintine christianity became corrupted and this resulted in the Catholic Church (you can add Orthodox Church in here as well).

Sda also teach that other Protestants do not have the entire truth and that ellen white was send by God as his final day prophetess to reveal this forgotten truth to mankind and more importantly Christendom. In essence it's the same as Mormons, JW's. Interestingly all these cults were formed in the same time period in the US and each can be traced back to the freemasons.

God bless
 
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alexsonofmatthew

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NYCGuy

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Thanks for that book rec, I've seen it many times, guess I should read it now.

Also from the Catholic perspective, you may be interested in reading "Continuity of the Catholic Church"-http://www.transporter.com/Mormonism/continuity.html

"
A Bishop shows that Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church and refutes theories of Apostasy in early Christianity. The Most Reverend Duane G. Hunt D.D. wrote this brilliant book while he was Catholic Bishop of Salt Lake City. It was written to counter Mormon claims that there was an apostasy in the early centuries of the Church and a loss of Divine authority."

It shows, based on the Bible and history, including other ancient Christian writings, that the Mormon claim of a total apostasy of Christ's Church simply is an untenable claim, not based in scripture nor history.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Does anyone care that Mormons do NOT think other Christians are Hellbound sinners? But rather othe Christians are viewed genuine disciples of Christ following the Lord the best they know how, with a very real possibility of being with Him in the eternities?
That is not what the LDS site says. It says that one must believe that JS is a prophet and that the LDS is the only true church.

I wish you would stop misrepresenting your faith. The LDS is trying to 'Christianize' themselves to seem more palpable, but the information is already out there and I am not fooled.
 
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ToBeLoved

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In essence it's the same as Mormons, JW's. Interestingly all these cults were formed in the same time period in the US and each can be traced back to the freemasons.

God bless

That is true. I posted this photo in another thread but I will post it again here.This is the older temple wear. You can also see the masonic sign. Notice the apron.
View media item 53797
*******
A significant number of leaders in the early Latter Day Saint movement were Masons prior to their involvement in the movement. Notable examples include Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball, John C. Bennett, Hyrum Smith and Joseph Smith, Sr.

In the early 1840s, a Masonic Lodge was formed by Latter Day Saints who were Freemasons. Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum became members of the newly formed Nauvoo lodge. It appears that John C. Bennett had a particularly strong influence in the spread of Freemasonry among the Mormons, and soon over 1,500 Mormon men in the city of Nauvoo were practicing Masons. Mormon historian Reed Durham writes:

"By 1840, John Cook Bennett, a former active leader in Masonry had arrived in Commerce and rapidly exerted his persuasive leadership in all facets of the Church, including Mormon Masonry. ... Joseph and Sidney [Rigdon] were inducted into formal Masonry ... on the same day..." being made "Masons on Sight" by the Illinois Grandmaster.("Is There No Help for the Widow's Son?" by Dr. Reed C. Durham, Jr., as printed in "Joseph Smith and Masonry: No Help for the Widow's Son", Martin Pub. Co., Nauvoo, Ill., 1980, p. 17.) (This freed Joseph from having to complete the ritual and memorization necessary to work one's way through the first three degrees.) Making one "A Mason on Sight" is generally reserved as an honor and is a rarity in occurrence.

In 1842 Smith became a Master Mason, as indicated by in the History of the Church:

Tuesday, [March] 15. — I officiated as grand chaplain at the installation of the Nauvoo Lodge of Free Masons, at the Grove near the Temple. Grand Master Jonas, of Columbus, being present, a large number of people assembled on the occasion. The day was exceedingly fine; all things were done in order, and universal satisfaction was manifested. In the evening I received the first degree in Freemasonry in the Nauvoo Lodge, assembled in my general business office. History of the Church, by Joseph Smith, Deseret Book, 1978, Vol.4, Ch.32, p.550–1.)

Smith was raised to the third degree of master mason "on sight" by Grand Master Jonas of the Grand Lodge of Illinois. This was fully within Jonas' right of office, but was a fairly rare procedure.[1]

Wednesday, March 16. — I was with the Masonic Lodge and rose to the sublime degree. (History of the Church, Vol. 4, Ch.32, p. 552)

In The Mormon Church and Freemasonry (2001), Terry Chateau writes:

[The Joseph Smith family] was a Masonic family which lived by and practiced the estimable and admirable tenets of Freemasonry. The father, Joseph Smith, Sr., was a documented member in upstate New York. He was raised to the degree of Master Mason on May 7, 1818 in Ontario Lodge No. 23 of Canandaigua, New York. An older son, Hyrum Smith, was a member of Mount Moriah Lodge No. 112, Palmyra New York.

Taken from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_Freemasonry
******
 
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NYCGuy

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Does anyone care that Mormons do NOT think other Christians are Hellbound sinners? But rather othe Christians are viewed genuine disciples of Christ following the Lord the best they know how, with a very real possibility of being with Him in the eternities?

Sure Mormons may not claim that, perhaps because Mormons have a different understanding of what "Hell" is than others.

However, it is clear from Mormon teaching that to receive eternal life, one must be a Mormon, whether in this life or the next. So sure, Mormons may views others as being Christians, genuine disciples of Christ, but that discipleship is not the path to eternal life, since they would eventually have to join "the true church".
 
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fatboys

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Sure Mormons may not claim that, perhaps because Mormons have a different understanding of what "Hell" is than others.

However, it is clear from Mormon teaching that to receive eternal life, one must be a Mormon, whether in this life or the next. So sure, Mormons may views others as being Christians, genuine disciples of Christ, but that discipleship is not the path to eternal life, since they would eventually have to join "the true church".
If you don't believe that we can become like our Father then if you follow what you believe to be true and follow it to the best of your ability you will gain the reward you believe you will get. We are just saying there is more.
 
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NYCGuy

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If you don't believe that we can become like our Father then if you follow what you believe to be true and follow it to the best of your ability you will gain the reward you believe you will get. We are just saying there is more.

As a Catholic, I believe in deification, also known as theosis.

I would assume that other Christians believe that eternal life is living in the eternal presence of God. So, in the Mormon view, would that person get to live in the eternal presence of the Father, if that is the reward they believe they will get?
 
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fatboys

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As a Catholic, I believe in deification, also known as theosis.

I would assume that other Christians believe that eternal life is living in the eternal presence of God. So, in the Mormon view, would that person get to live in the eternal presence of the Father, if that is the reward they believe they will get?
Since you do not believe in eternal progression and you believe that Jesus is also God the Father then yes
 
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Jane_Doe

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That is not what the LDS site says. It says that one must believe that JS is a prophet and that the LDS is the only true church.

Yes, the LDS view themselves as the only true church,

AND

View other Christians are viewed genuine disciples of Christ following the Lord the best they know how, with a very real possibility of being with Him in the eternities.


Sure Mormons may not claim that, perhaps because Mormons have a different understanding of what "Hell" is than others.

However, it is clear from Mormon teaching that to receive eternal life, one must be a Mormon, whether in this life or the next. So sure, Mormons may views others as being Christians, genuine disciples of Christ, but that discipleship is not the path to eternal life, since they would eventually have to join "the true church".

Yes, Mormons do believe that by the time of Final Judgement everyone will know the full truth (found in the Mormon church).

I've been told by Catholics that they believe quite similarly: that in the eternities that the full truth (taught be the the Catholic Church) will be known and accepted by all. Is that correct?
 
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NYCGuy

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Since you do not believe in eternal progression and you believe that Jesus is also God the Father then yes

No, I don't believe that Jesus is God the Father. That is a non-Trinitarian heresy known as modalism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabellianism

So, I think it is clear that no, the Christian that believes they will receive eternal life and live in the eternal presence of the Persons of the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), what Catholics would call the "beatific vision", would not do so in the Mormon view.
 
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NYCGuy

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Yes, the LDS view themselves as the only true church,

AND

View other Christians are viewed genuine disciples of Christ following the Lord the best they know how, with a very real possibility of being with Him in the eternities.




Yes, Mormons do believe that by the time of Final Judgement everyone will know the full truth (found in the Mormon church).

I've been told by Catholics that they believe quite similarly: that in the eternities that the full truth (taught be the the Catholic Church) will be known and accepted by all. Is that correct?


Catholics do not believe that one must be Catholic to receive eternal life. Indeed, we accept as valid baptisms (which we view as salvific) in various other Christian churches.
 
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fatboys

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As a Catholic, I believe in deification, also known as theosis.

I would assume that other Christians believe that eternal life is living in the eternal presence of God. So, in the Mormon view, would that person get to live in the eternal presence of the Father, if that is the reward they believe they will get?
Since you do not believe in eternal progression and you believe that Jesus is also God the Father then yes
Catholics do not believe that one must be Catholic to receive eternal life. Indeed, we accept as valid baptisms (which we view as salvific) in various other Christian churches.
why
 
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NYCGuy

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alexsonofmatthew

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If you don't believe that we can become like our Father then if you follow what you believe to be true and follow it to the best of your ability you will gain the reward you believe you will get. We are just saying there is more.


This is purely satanic! sounds like something from the theosophical society, gnosticism or better yet the same lie from the Serpent in the garden of Eden.

Genesis 3:5
5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
 
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ToBeLoved

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Sure Mormons may not claim that, perhaps because Mormons have a different understanding of what "Hell" is than others.

However, it is clear from Mormon teaching that to receive eternal life, one must be a Mormon, whether in this life or the next. So sure, Mormons may views others as being Christians, genuine disciples of Christ, but that discipleship is not the path to eternal life, since they would eventually have to join "the true church".
It's really all smoke and mirrors.

They use Christian words but then assign a different meaning to them. They know full well what we are saying, we make it very clear. They duck and jab, duck and jab
 
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