Why Buddhism Is True (by Robert Wright)

[Robban]

Faith is not a power in itself. Faith is a dependence on something tangible. I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow morning, because the conclusive evidence is that it rises every morning. I could adopt a belief that the sun won't rise tomorrow morning and if I was a subscriber to existential faith, then I would expect there to be no sunrise, because I have decided to believe it.

I can believe that if I take a lotto ticket I have a chance of winning a prize. This is substantial faith. But if I decided to believe that if I take a lotto ticket I will win first prize in next Saturday's draw, that is faith without a foundation. It is true for me because I believe it, not because it would be objectively true based on substantive evidence. I might win on Saturday and then because the odds of winning in my country are 3.5 million to one, it is not likely.

Faith is the root,

"For man is a tree of the field" (Deuteronomy 20:19)

Our roots are our faith and commitment,
our trunk and branches are our learning and character,
and our deeds are our fruits.

(Lubavitcher Rebbe)

 

[dlamberth]

Faith is not a power in itself. Faith is a dependence on something tangible. I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow morning, because the conclusive evidence is that it rises every morning. I could adopt a belief that the sun won't rise tomorrow morning and if I was a subscriber to existential faith, then I would expect there to be no sunrise, because I have decided to believe it.

I can believe that if I take a lotto ticket I have a chance of winning a prize. This is substantial faith. But if I decided to believe that if I take a lotto ticket I will win first prize in next Saturday's draw, that is faith without a foundation. It is true for me because I believe it, not because it would be objectively true based on substantive evidence. I might win on Saturday and then because the odds of winning in my country are 3.5 million to one, it is not likely.

I'd like to start off by quoting what Robban wrote as a memory point. I've highlighted in bold what I'm responding to as it relates to your post.

"Which is faith that transcends intellect,
this concept cannot be grasped intellectually,
but only through faith."

The way I read Robban words is that he's pointing towards a state Faith that really isn't dependent upon anything tangible at all. It's a Faith that goes deeper into the Soul than that. It's beyond intellect. I don't know if Robbin would say this, but I see it as drawing closer to pure Consciousness. And isn't that in a lot of ways what God is?

 

[Robban]

I'd like to start off by quoting what Robban wrote as a memory point. I've highlighted in bold what I'm responding to as it relates to your post.

"Which is faith that transcends intellect,
this concept cannot be grasped intellectually,
but only through faith."

The way I read Robban words is that he's pointing towards a state Faith that really isn't dependent upon anything tangible at all. It's a Faith that goes deeper into the Soul than that. It's beyond intellect. I don't know if Robbin would say this, but I see it as drawing closer to pure Consciousness. And isn't that in a lot of ways what God is?

Well, it is about the soul connecting with it,s source.

The Godly soul can be seen as a princess who has left the palace and longs to return, nothing of this world can make her happy,

Because nothing here can compare with what she is used to in the palace.

 

[Robban]

613 connections, or a rope with 613 strands, starting with one strand and for each added the rope becomes stronger.

Just as the human body consists of 248 organs and 365 blood vessels,
corresponding to Torahs 248 positive commandments and 365
prohibitive commandments

The soul similarly comprises 613 organs.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I'd like to start off by quoting what Robban wrote as a memory point. I've highlighted in bold what I'm responding to as it relates to your post.

"Which is faith that transcends intellect,
this concept cannot be grasped intellectually,
but only through faith."

The way I read Robban words is that he's pointing towards a state Faith that really isn't dependent upon anything tangible at all. It's a Faith that goes deeper into the Soul than that. It's beyond intellect. I don't know if Robbin would say this, but I see it as drawing closer to pure Consciousness. And isn't that in a lot of ways what God is?

That is what existential faith actually is. It is a blind leap of faith without any substance to base the faith on except a personal belief that something is true.

Christian faith is nothing like it.

Christian faith is based on definite promises that God has communicated to us through the Bible. If a person says they have faith but do not acknowledge that the Bible is God's communication to mankind, then their faith is not in the Living God of the Bible, but if they say they have faith in "God" then it is a god of their own imagination.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Well, it is about the soul connecting with it,s source.

The Godly soul can be seen as a princess who has left the palace and longs to return, nothing of this world can make her happy,

Because nothing here can compare with what she is used to in the palace.

I think that your faith has more substance than that of an atheist because you believe the Law and the Prophets as contained in the Torah.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

I don't know of anyone in any other religion except Christianity that has a person to person fellowship with God in which they talk to God and God talks back to them. Moses talked with God face to face as one friend to another. No other person in any other religion ever had that encounter with their god. No other person other than Jesus has ever mixed with people, healed the sick, cast out demons, and said to his followers, "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father", in other words those who see him are seeing the Living God. The reason why Jesus was crucified is that the Jewish religious leaders objected to Him referring to Himself as God.

So, either Jesus was mad, a liar, or He was telling the truth about himself. No other religion has had a human being claim to be the Living God and then proving it by countless miraculous acts, and then coming back from the dead, which was witnessed by 500 people at the time, and then fellowshiped with His disciples for 40 days afterward and then rose to disappear into the clouds, saying that He will come again one day in the same manner as He rose up into the clouds.

I have a question to ask you. When Jesus was put in the tomb and was there for three days, and then the witnesses saw the tomb empty with the grave clothes neatly folded, who actually moved the stone to allow Him to come out?

Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yogananda includes claims of divinity, resurrection, direct connection to God, miraculous healings, miraculous events etc. According to the book the guru known as Babaji is the incarnate God.

It was written in the 1950s (very recent). Many people knew Paramahansa Yogananda personally and some people that knew him are still alive today and follow him.

Either Paramahansa was mad, a liar or he was telling the truth. What do you think?

In the case of the Bible, it is not Jesus directly writing an autobiography so there are many more possibilities. Jesus could be mad, a liar, telling the truth, or the people that wrote the Bible could be mad, liars, telling the truth, mis-recording events, unknowingly exaggerating events, knowingly exaggerating events, relying on unreliable witnesses, etc.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

That is because you have never sought Him with all your heart. Unless you do, you will never find Him.

No True Scotsman

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

The principles of Buddhism may work well for a person in this life. But death has to come to us all. What then? Will it take you out into eternity to a bright and joyful future there?

No one knows.

Better to live life focusing on the life you actually have right now (and the lives of those around you) rather than the possible afterlife you may or may not have after death.

If dying means going to eternal bliss in heaven with God, then death is the ultimate gift and life is just an annoying chore. The lame opening band before the headliner. The sooner you die the better, right? I don't like this idea at all because it de-values the one real life we actually know for sure that we have.

 

[dlamberth]

Those words look like speaking in tongues to me. My doctor once made a diagnosis of a condition I had and he expressed it in medical language. I told him that he was speaking in tongues and I would try those words in church next Sunday!! He has a sense of humour and we had a chuckle about it.

Yes, I can see how seeing God in this Creation can seem like another language. In a way it is because it's certainly a different reality than this material one most of us are in. And coming from a different reality means a different language to draw upon. And talking about Panenthesim as the Divine being Immanent is an example.

 

[Silmarien]

Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yogananda includes claims of divinity, resurrection, direct connection to God, miraculous healings, miraculous events etc. According to the book the guru known as Babaji is the incarnate God.

Avatar of Shiva, not incarnate God, as far as I can tell. But the avatar system is a pretty well established aspect of Hinduism, so it's not terribly surprising to see stuff like this. Claims of divinity, direction connection, and miracles are also really nothing outside of the ordinary in Hinduism, given its monistic concept of God. I would be careful trying to fit it too closely to Christian claims, since there are significant differences between the two.

Other than that, I mostly agree with you. Speaking of which:

I don't know of anyone in any other religion except Christianity that has a person to person fellowship with God in which they talk to God and God talks back to them. Moses talked with God face to face as one friend to another. No other person in any other religion ever had that encounter with their god.

Hinduism actually has something like this. The entire Bhaghavad Gita is about a person to person discussion between Prince Arjuna and Krishna, an avatar of Vishnu who is quite explicitly portrayed as the Supreme Creator (Hinduism is a bit odd with the monistic polytheism). So it's really not true that nobody in any other religion has had face-to-face encounters with God.

 

[jacknife]

Avatar of Shiva, not incarnate God, as far as I can tell. But the avatar system is a pretty well established aspect of Hinduism, so it's not terribly surprising to see stuff like this. Claims of divinity, direction connection, and miracles are also really nothing outside of the ordinary in Hinduism, given its monistic concept of God. I would be careful trying to fit it too closely to Christian claims, since there are significant differences between the two.

Other than that, I mostly agree with you. Speaking of which:



Hinduism actually has something like this. The entire Bhaghavad Gita is about a person to person discussion between Prince Arjuna and Krishna, an avatar of Vishnu who is quite explicitly portrayed as the Supreme Creator (Hinduism is a bit odd with the monistic polytheism). So it's really not true that nobody in any other religion has had face-to-face encounters with God.

The avatar system? Can you expand on that I'm unfamiliar with it.

 

[Silmarien]

The avatar system? Can you expand on that I'm unfamiliar with it.

It's a bit tricky, since Hinduism has a handful of different traditions within it (most of which I know nothing about, since I'm only really interested in Vedanta). The avatar doctrine is specifically associated with Vaishnavism, which is the branch of Hinduism that considers Vishnu as the Supreme God. The idea is that Vishnu has descended to earth a number of times--whenever the cosmos is out of balance, an avatar appears to reestablish what is correct. Rama and Krishna are two of the major incarnations of Vishnu, and sometimes the Buddha will get wrapped into the system as yet another incarnation.

Of course, we have to keep in mind that in Hinduism, even a god like Vishnu is really more of a manifestation of Ultimate Reality than being that Ultimate Reality itself. Which is where things get really fun, since if Vishnu is a culturally informed way of relating to God and can have incarnate avatars, then Christianity is actually very easily fit into the Hindu system--Jesus is the avatar of the Hebrew aspect of God, and not exactly unique. Have fun, apologists.

 

[Lukaris]

Being Christian is all about living this life by following the Lord’s commandments to love God & neighbor. How to do this in struggling with our own sins,in a fallen world, & uncertain life span is not some waiting game of self assurance.

This involves hoping as many as possible are saved (alongside hoping for our own). Since it is how we live out this life we cannot give credence to minds going through transmigrations & caste systems.

 

[jacknife]

It's a bit tricky, since Hinduism has a handful of different traditions within it (most of which I know nothing about, since I'm only really interested in Vedanta). The avatar doctrine is specifically associated with Vaishnavism, which is the branch of Hinduism that considers Vishnu as the Supreme God. The idea is that Vishnu has descended to earth a number of times--whenever the cosmos is out of balance, an avatar appears to reestablish what is correct. Rama and Krishna are two of the major incarnations of Vishnu, and sometimes the Buddha will get wrapped into the system as yet another incarnation.

Of course, we have to keep in mind that in Hinduism, even a god like Vishnu is really more of a manifestation of Ultimate Reality than being that Ultimate Reality itself. Which is where things get really fun, since if Vishnu is a culturally informed way of relating to God and can have incarnate avatars, then Christianity is actually very easily fit into the Hindu system--Jesus is the avatar of the Hebrew aspect of God, and not exactly unique. Have fun, apologists.

That's actually pretty intresting, I think a lot of ideas in spirituality overlap and are compatible. More so then we usually give them credit for. Maybe this is because of simple human psychology or because spirituality is more diverse then most think. Probably a bit of both.

 

[dlamberth]

That's actually pretty intresting, I think a lot of ideas in spirituality overlap and are compatible. More so then we usually give them credit for. Maybe this is because of simple human psychology or because spirituality is more diverse then most think. Probably a bit of both.

I go with the spirituality is more diverse than most think. We tend to get struck into tribes thinking that our tribes spirituality is the only true way.

 

[jacknife]

I go with the spirituality is more diverse than most think. We tend to get struck into tribes thinking that our tribes spirituality is the only true way.

I tend to think it's more human psychology but you have a point, people strive to belong. I had a person try to convert me to christianity recently who has never read the bible. She converted just from watching passion of the christ" but she tries so hard to belong. On a unrelated note happy new years dlamberth.

 

[dlamberth]

On a unrelated note happy new years dlamberth.

Thank YOU!!

And Happy New Years to you!

 

[Silmarien]

That's actually pretty intresting, I think a lot of ideas in spirituality overlap and are compatible. More so then we usually give them credit for. Maybe this is because of simple human psychology or because spirituality is more diverse then most think. Probably a bit of both.

I'm not sure it's either of those two things in this particular instance, since whereas incarnational theology has a long history in the East, I'm not familiar with anything similar in the West aside from Christianity. It doesn't seem to be the result of a psychological or spiritual process in the Abrahamic tradition--people just suddenly started saying that it had happened. I'm fond of the idea that other traditions, rather than just Judaism, prefigured and foresaw what would become historical instead of just mythological in Christianity. I think it's a form of pluralism that makes orthodox Christian beliefs more interesting and plausible, rather than less.

But yeah, there's a lot more overlap than people usually realize. And a lot of ideas that repeat and repeat over time as well, always coming back. There are differences between the Western and Eastern conception of God, but they're not nearly as distinct as most people assume.

Happy New Years, guys.

 

[Robban]

Abrahams gifts to the east (India)
Over time they were drawn down many wrong paths by that wisdom.


"And to the sons of abrahams concubines, Abraham gave gifts,
and he sent them away from his son Isaac while he (Abraham) was still alive, eastward to the land of the east."
(Genesis 25:6)

There is a need to be on guard.