Why Buddhism Is True (by Robert Wright)

[leftrightleftrightleft]

I recently read the book "Why Buddhism Is True" by Robert Wright. In the book, he outlines why and how various ideas in Buddhism align very well with modern psychology and neurology. As we learn more about how the brain functions, it seems that science regularly confirms some basic notions of Buddhism:

1) The world our brains construct is illusory, incomplete, and tends to delude us;
2) These illusions and delusions lead us to make decisions that cause suffering;
3) By letting go of these illusions, we get a clearer picture of reality and we are happier because of it.

One simple example he offers is that our brains over-inflate the joy we will experience upon indulging in some short term pleasure like eating ice cream and this is the root cause of many addictions. Scientific studies consistently show that people think they will enjoy something more than they actually do. Hence, in some sense, this is considered a "delusion". This results in some small amount of suffering and disappointment and, in the example of ice cream, perhaps a sense of guilt about being unhealthy or, in worse case scenarios, physical health issues from over-eating. From a Buddhist perspective, the goal is then to recognize this illusion and train our minds to no longer desire these illusory and temporary things in life. Instead, the goal is to seek the real, timeless and unchanging parts of the universe.

What is the Christian response to this?

It seems to me that, at its core, Christianity is founded on historical facts (e.g. the resurrection) rather than testable ideas (e.g. do our brains construct illusory narratives?). So there is no similar book that a Christian could write as a counter-point to Wright's book. Would a Christian response to the ice cream overeater would be to pray to Jesus? It seems shallow and simplistic compared to the detailed psychology laid out by Wright backed up by scientific experiment.

It feels like Buddhism and Christianity occupy different spaces entirely. When I read the writings of Buddhists it seems like they are talking about a whole different set of ideas that, while not necessarily contradictory to Christian theology, are simply ideas which Christians don't bother to discuss.

Does Christianity propose any testable ideas? One testable idea I could think of is "Following Jesus will improve your life and/or make you more moral". There aren't many scientific studies on this so all we have to go on is mostly anecdotes for which you can find both good and bad examples. Some studies suggest that there is very little correlation with religiosity and morality. Are religious people more moral?

 

[Tom 1]

Would a Christian response to the ice cream overeater would be to pray to Jesus? It seems shallow and simplistic compared to the detailed psychology laid out by Wright backed up by scientific experiment.

The bible talks about the same issues, it’s the language that is different not the ideas - the deceitfulness of sin, the influence of the body on the mind etc. It’s language that can grate, but it addresses the same ideas you raise in the OP.
For someone with an overeating problem pursuing some abstract notions about what isn’t part of their particular understanding of what is ‘real and timeless’ in the universe is unlikely to be of much help. It might work for the odd person who really ‘gets into it’ and substitutes one obsession for another, but it won’t ‘cure’ the problem.
A deeper understanding of the influence of Judeo-Christian teachings on Western society would be a good place to start in trying to understand their influence on current ideas of morality. The problem with these kind of arguments is that they don’t even scratch the surface of any area of biblical teaching. To get some idea of the psychology of the bible, Henry Cloud is worth reading, as a starting point.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It feels like Buddhism and Christianity occupy different spaces entirely. When I read the writings of Buddhists it seems like they are talking about a whole different set of ideas that, while not necessarily contradictory to Christian theology, are simply ideas which Christians don't bother to discuss.

Simply in Scripture, all paganism, and the ways of the world, and the ways of the heathen ,
are forbidden to study. That's why followers of Jesus saved by Him do not study nor talk about them.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Buddhism follows the "little gods" that Adam and Eve became after they ate the fruit and disobeyed God. Man decided, in rebellion against God, they they would be gods to decide what was good and what was evil. This is where humanism comes from - that the answer to everything is with man. Buddhism is a humanist religion. It sides with rebellion against the Living God. There is nothing good in it, and those who adopt or even approve of any part of it are joining in the rebellion against God and unless they repent they will be lost.

 

[Not David]

There is Eastern Christianity which has a more mystical side. I don't know much about Buddhism so I can not comment that much.

 

[Tomm]

I recently read the book "Why Buddhism Is True" by Robert Wright. In the book, he outlines why and how various ideas in Buddhism align very well with modern psychology and neurology. As we learn more about how the brain functions, it seems that science regularly confirms some basic notions of Buddhism:

1) The world our brains construct is illusory, incomplete, and tends to delude us;
2) These illusions and delusions lead us to make decisions that cause suffering;
3) By letting go of these illusions, we get a clearer picture of reality and we are happier because of it.

One simple example he offers is that our brains over-inflate the joy we will experience upon indulging in some short term pleasure like eating ice cream and this is the root cause of many addictions. Scientific studies consistently show that people think they will enjoy something more than they actually do. Hence, in some sense, this is considered a "delusion". This results in some small amount of suffering and disappointment and, in the example of ice cream, perhaps a sense of guilt about being unhealthy or, in worse case scenarios, physical health issues from over-eating. From a Buddhist perspective, the goal is then to recognize this illusion and train our minds to no longer desire these illusory and temporary things in life. Instead, the goal is to seek the real, timeless and unchanging parts of the universe.

What is the Christian response to this?

It seems to me that, at its core, Christianity is founded on historical facts (e.g. the resurrection) rather than testable ideas (e.g. do our brains construct illusory narratives?). So there is no similar book that a Christian could write as a counter-point to Wright's book. Would a Christian response to the ice cream overeater would be to pray to Jesus? It seems shallow and simplistic compared to the detailed psychology laid out by Wright backed up by scientific experiment.

It feels like Buddhism and Christianity occupy different spaces entirely. When I read the writings of Buddhists it seems like they are talking about a whole different set of ideas that, while not necessarily contradictory to Christian theology, are simply ideas which Christians don't bother to discuss.

Does Christianity propose any testable ideas? One testable idea I could think of is "Following Jesus will improve your life and/or make you more moral". There aren't many scientific studies on this so all we have to go on is mostly anecdotes for which you can find both good and bad examples. Some studies suggest that there is very little correlation with religiosity and morality. Are religious people more moral?

If I say something right about life, that doesn't mean the rest of what I say are also right. Buddhism is right about something about life, but those are all observable by normal persons, none of them are related to the supernatural.

In fact, Buddhism is not a good religion, some of its teachings are evil.

 

[Lost4words]

One book that can counter the book you seem attached to is the 'BIBLE'.

 

[Sparagmos]

I recently read the book "Why Buddhism Is True" by Robert Wright. In the book, he outlines why and how various ideas in Buddhism align very well with modern psychology and neurology. As we learn more about how the brain functions, it seems that science regularly confirms some basic notions of Buddhism:

1) The world our brains construct is illusory, incomplete, and tends to delude us;
2) These illusions and delusions lead us to make decisions that cause suffering;
3) By letting go of these illusions, we get a clearer picture of reality and we are happier because of it.

One simple example he offers is that our brains over-inflate the joy we will experience upon indulging in some short term pleasure like eating ice cream and this is the root cause of many addictions. Scientific studies consistently show that people think they will enjoy something more than they actually do. Hence, in some sense, this is considered a "delusion". This results in some small amount of suffering and disappointment and, in the example of ice cream, perhaps a sense of guilt about being unhealthy or, in worse case scenarios, physical health issues from over-eating. From a Buddhist perspective, the goal is then to recognize this illusion and train our minds to no longer desire these illusory and temporary things in life. Instead, the goal is to seek the real, timeless and unchanging parts of the universe.

What is the Christian response to this?

It seems to me that, at its core, Christianity is founded on historical facts (e.g. the resurrection) rather than testable ideas (e.g. do our brains construct illusory narratives?). So there is no similar book that a Christian could write as a counter-point to Wright's book. Would a Christian response to the ice cream overeater would be to pray to Jesus? It seems shallow and simplistic compared to the detailed psychology laid out by Wright backed up by scientific experiment.

It feels like Buddhism and Christianity occupy different spaces entirely. When I read the writings of Buddhists it seems like they are talking about a whole different set of ideas that, while not necessarily contradictory to Christian theology, are simply ideas which Christians don't bother to discuss.

Does Christianity propose any testable ideas? One testable idea I could think of is "Following Jesus will improve your life and/or make you more moral". There aren't many scientific studies on this so all we have to go on is mostly anecdotes for which you can find both good and bad examples. Some studies suggest that there is very little correlation with religiosity and morality. Are religious people more moral?

I think you make a good point.

Christianity is a religion and Buddhism is a philosophy.

I think that some people can be helped a lot by Buddhism.

I grew up in a very religious household. My father was a minister. If I went to my parents with a problem, or a question about the world, they always tried to answer with scripture or teaching directly from scripture. It was almost never helpful outside of providing comfort when I was suffering in some way. Scripture tells us to love each other, but not enough about how.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I think you make a good point.

Christianity is a religion and Buddhism is a philosophy.

I think that some people can be helped a lot by Buddhism.

I grew up in a very religious household. My father was a minister. If I went to my parents with a problem, or a question about the world, they always tried to answer with scripture or teaching directly from scripture. It was almost never helpful outside of providing comfort when I was suffering in some way. Scripture tells us to love each other, but not enough about how.

That's exactly how the founder of Buddhism said it was - not a religion but a philosophy. He also refused to have statues of himself made. It was only after his death that the statues of him were made and worshipped. It was the ones who came after him who turned his philosophy into a religion.

 

[Tom 1]

I think you make a good point.

Christianity is a religion and Buddhism is a philosophy.

I think that some people can be helped a lot by Buddhism.

I grew up in a very religious household. My father was a minister. If I went to my parents with a problem, or a question about the world, they always tried to answer with scripture or teaching directly from scripture. It was almost never helpful outside of providing comfort when I was suffering in some way. Scripture tells us to love each other, but not enough about how.

I think it’s important to remember that the language of the bible isn’t exactly user friendly for modern, Western ears, and to remember also that it is all set within a context of action and community. Unfortunately the general approach of different church leaders is often to try and make it all bend into manageable shapes and to maintain the illusion that all you need to do is to fit yourself into that shape. It takes a bit more effort and time to really tease out the example and teachings of Christ and others who followed them - or sometimes the counter example of those who follow him - but it’s all in there. Henry Cloud’s series of books are enlightening as to how ideas can be connected through an understanding of the original context and language. Philip Yancey is good to read also, as someone who asks difficult questions and pursues them with an open mind.

 

[holo]

Buddhism and Christianity have some similarities in that they both present a way out of suffering. The main difference being that Buddhism focuses on the here and now, while in Christianity it's not necessarily something you'll see in this lifetime. They both also deal with the issue of sin, but in very different ways. In Buddhism there isn't really such a thing as sin, only more or less compassion, more or less skillfull acts, etc. While in Christianity sin is very real and must be paid for.

Originally, to my understanding, Buddhism says nothing whatsoever about the afterlife or whether or not we have souls etc. But like Christianity, when it spread it absorbed elements from the cultures around it, like reincarnation. But Buddhism at its "core" isn't metaphysical and therefore not necessarily at odds with Christianity. It's perfectly possible to practice Buddhism as a Christian, because it's more of a psychology, or lifestyle, or philosophy, than a religion in that sense. That's certainly true for the secular version(s) of Buddhism anyway, which is what Wright is writing about.

For someone with an overeating problem pursuing some abstract notions about what isn’t part of their particular understanding of what is ‘real and timeless’ in the universe is unlikely to be of much help. It might work for the odd person who really ‘gets into it’ and substitutes one obsession for another, but it won’t ‘cure’ the problem.

Actually, contemplating the nature of reality, what is real, what is illusion, what am I sensing here and now, etc, is a great way to combat things like eating disorders. Everybody has a lot to gain by just sitting down and breathe for even just a few minutes.

 

[holo]

Buddhism follows the "little gods" that Adam and Eve became after they ate the fruit and disobeyed God. Man decided, in rebellion against God, they they would be gods to decide what was good and what was evil. This is where humanism comes from - that the answer to everything is with man. Buddhism is a humanist religion. It sides with rebellion against the Living God. There is nothing good in it, and those who adopt or even approve of any part of it are joining in the rebellion against God and unless they repent they will be lost.

I'm sorry, but this is all just untrue.

 

[Tom 1]

Actually, contemplating the nature of reality, what is real, what is illusion, what am I sensing here and now, etc, is a great way to combat things like eating disorders. Everybody has a lot to gain by just sitting down and breathe for even just a few minutes.

Not eating disorders, while mindfulness practices (whether rooted in Buddhist philosophy or not) can be effective for some less serious problems it takes a lot more to get a person past a clinical eating disorder. Sure, mindfulness, meditation, controlled breathing etc can have real effects on mental and physical wellbeing, but they aren’t a panacea, and require a relatively stable and motivated starting point even within an overall therapeutic program.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If I say something right about life, that doesn't mean the rest of what I say are also right. Buddhism is right about something about life, but those are all observable by normal persons, none of them are related to the supernatural.

In fact, Buddhism is not a good religion, some of its teachings are evil.

Yes , if anyone puts their trust in something like Buddhism that's not right,
in fact that is opposed to Jesus,
will they find life ? Or will they be prevented from finding life, as Buddhism attempts to do ?

 

[dlamberth]

Yes , if anyone puts their trust in something like Buddhism that's not right,
in fact that is opposed to Jesus,
will they find life ? Or will they be prevented from finding life, as Buddhism attempts to do ?

I've never found Buddhism and Christ as opposed to each other. In fact, I find them complementary. I have no problem putting my trust into each. I learn from both, my spiritual attitude is fed by both, I respect both trajectories and I've become a better Human Being as a result.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I've never found Buddhism and Christ as opposed to each other. In fact, I find them complementary. I have no problem putting my trust into each. I learn from both, my spiritual attitude is fed by both, I respect both trajectories and I've become a better Human Being as a result.

The very act or thought of the Truth having ANY fellowship with darkness
is anti-Christ, anti-Scriptural, and keeps or attempts to keep people from turning to God to be saved. (If they are lost, then are told by lies like this that they don't have to be saved, they might not seek to be saved, ever)

 

[ananda]

... Christianity is founded on historical facts (e.g. the resurrection) rather than testable ideas (e.g. do our brains construct illusory narratives?). ... It feels like Buddhism and Christianity occupy different spaces entirely. When I read the writings of Buddhists it seems like they are talking about a whole different set of ideas that, while not necessarily contradictory to Christian theology, are simply ideas which Christians don't bother to discuss. Does Christianity propose any testable ideas? One testable idea I could think of is "Following Jesus will improve your life and/or make you more moral". There aren't many scientific studies on this so all we have to go on is mostly anecdotes for which you can find both good and bad examples. Some studies suggest that there is very little correlation with religiosity and morality. Are religious people more moral?

I agree, the two religions come from radically different starting points.

Early Buddhism is based on the idea of fully understanding and working with what can be observed (and thus tested) in the here & now.

Most other religions - mainstream/orthodox Christianity included - is based on the idea of faith and trust in supposed past events, things which cannot truly be observed in the here & now.

Therefore - to answer your question - the latter cannot be tested.

 

[dlamberth]

The very act or thought of the Truth having ANY fellowship with darkness
is anti-Christ, anti-Scriptural, and keeps or attempts to keep people from turning to God to be saved. (If they are lost, then are told by lies like this that they don't have to be saved, they might not seek to be saved, ever)

Where your seeing darkness, I'm seeing Light. I'll follow the Light. And as I mentioned, I'm a better Human Being as a result. That's what matters to me...becoming a more human, Human Being. I'm not at all about after death beliefs. But I am about becoming a better Human Being.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Jesus is the Light, that came into the world, and Buddhism along with all the world rejected Him... even His Own people rejected Him....

When people see evil, and call it good (light), this also is addressed in God's Word.

 

[dlamberth]

The very act or thought of the Truth having ANY fellowship with darkness
is anti-Christ, anti-Scriptural, and keeps or attempts to keep people from turning to God to be saved. (If they are lost, then are told by lies like this that they don't have to be saved, they might not seek to be saved, ever)

In regards to Buddhism, what your saying is counter to any of my experiences. And that's what I have to draw upon.