Why Buddhism Is True (by Robert Wright)

[FireDragon76]

I do zazen so I can be more effective in life (family, work, money, leisure). i could care less if that's buddhism or not. i care more about effectiveness then labels. but hey, if the side effect of all my meditation is ending the cycle of rebirth, that's cool too, but it's not my primary motivation for Buddhist practice.

but i do think the primary purpose of Buddhism is to end suffering. cosmically that could be the rebirth stuff, but in our current situation, it's all about chilling out.

That's a very liberal, even ahistorical interpretation. It sells books and gets white people to go to meditation retreats, though.

It's sort of like the liberal Jew that might think of tikkun olam as throwing a paper cup into the recycling bin. Well, in some ways its actually worse, since at least the liberal Jew is doing something to improve the world. Meditation can be used to evil ends, as the Slovenian philosopher Slavoj Zizec points out frequently in criticizing this sort of Buddhism.

 

[TheOldWays]

That's a very liberal, even ahistorical interpretation. It sells books and gets white people to go to meditation retreats, though.

I'm ok with that. Although I only bought one book and would never go to a meditation retreat.

Meditation can be used to evil ends, as the Slovenian philosopher Slavoj Zizec points out frequently in criticizing this sort of Buddhism.

not really my concern.

 

[Zoness]

Hey hey zoness

How was your trip? We never got to finish our discussion.

It was good, thanks for asking. I don't think I much that's very interesting to say.

 

[RickardoHolmes]

Many aspects of Buddhism have been very positive for me. Meditation, with it's plethora of health benefits is one. Non-materialism has helped me more than I can describe here. Living a more simple life has become so uplifting and the detachment from wanting material goods, from seeking happiness in the material, has been of great benefit.
I have found ways to become a more peaceful and loving person, helping those in my community.

I have always maintained that Buddhism is compatible with Christianity. My life is proof enough of that. Anyone who doubts it is obviously unknowledgeable in either Buddhism, Christianity, or both.

But at the risk of sounding conceited, the journey into such is a higher consciousness voyage, and many have neither the insight nor the resources to undertake it.

 

[juvenissun]

Does Christianity propose any testable ideas?

If you care to know some sciences, then yes, there are many many many.

And, scientific ideas in the Bible is the only thing that everyone can agree upon.

 

[zippy2006]

What is the Christian response to this?

This book might be a part of it for those who are interested.

@ananda

 

[ananda]

This book might be a part of it for those who are interested.

@ananda

Thanks for the recommendation; I read the book quite some time ago, but didn't find it convincing.

 

[FireDragon76]

I recently read the book "Why Buddhism Is True" by Robert Wright. In the book, he outlines why and how various ideas in Buddhism align very well with modern psychology and neurology. As we learn more about how the brain functions, it seems that science regularly confirms some basic notions of Buddhism

Another good book is "Buddha's Brain".

https://www.amazon.com/Buddhas-Brain-Practical-Neuroscience-Happiness/dp/1572246952/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=buddha's+brain&qid=1560585518&s=gateway&sr=8-1

Revolutionary psychotherapeutic modalities like dialectic behavioral therapy have opened-up because of scientific engagement with Buddhist practices.

What is the Christian response to this?

It seems to me that, at its core, Christianity is founded on historical facts (e.g. the resurrection) rather than testable ideas (e.g. do our brains construct illusory narratives?). So there is no similar book that a Christian could write as a counter-point to Wright's book.

Would a Christian response to the ice cream overeater would be to pray to Jesus? It seems shallow and simplistic compared to the detailed psychology laid out by Wright backed up by scientific experiment.

Christianity is like Hinduism, it deals with reality on the mythic level. That does not make it illegitimate, as people like Carl Jung have exposed the power of myth to western audiences to tap into the deeper states of our consciousness. But fundamentalist religion distorts the nature of faith and causes religious and secular conflicts.

It feels like Buddhism and Christianity occupy different spaces entirely. When I read the writings of Buddhists it seems like they are talking about a whole different set of ideas that, while not necessarily contradictory to Christian theology, are simply ideas which Christians don't bother to discuss.

I think that's true, they are generally looking at reality in completely different ways. As close as you get to Zen Buddhism in Christianity is in medieval mysticism, and especially the mysticism of Jakob Boehme and the Ungrund.

A few weeks ago I became aware of an inner barrenness, a lack of being in touch with my feelings, not feeling sad exactly but never feeling happy. I was feeling like real life was slipping me by. Worst yet, I had a ruminating inner dialogue that sometimes would drive me crazy. So I bought an emWave biofeedback machine and started working with it, and it has really reawakened me to that perspective on life. It is what Thitch Nhat Hanh calls "the miracle of mindfulness".

Does Christianity propose any testable ideas?

One testable idea I could think of is "Following Jesus will improve your life and/or make you more moral". There aren't many scientific studies on this so all we have to go on is mostly anecdotes for which you can find both good and bad examples. Some studies suggest that there is very little correlation with religiosity and morality. Are religious people more moral?

I think exoteric Christianity has benefits for some people but it can also have a shadow side, and it's important to realize that not all forms of Christianity are spiritually healthy. Religious fundamentalism in particular is actual a denial of real faith. For instance, check out this Buddhist's perspective on faith:

https://tricycle.org/magazine/born-again-buddhist-2/

Many Christians in our culture do not have that perspective. They believe they alone must be right in their beliefs. It's different from the Jodo Shinshu perspective that a person's faith in the Amida Buddha is their own, and is not dependent on anything like external verification, reasoned argument, but simply on faith itself that arises naturally out of our experience. As close as you get in Christianity to this perspective are some mainline Protestants influenced by existentialism, or those with a great deal of personal mystical experience who have moved beyond a strictly dogmatic stage of religious experience.

There is actually a saying by a Church Father that I like, Gregory of Nyssa - "Ideas lead to idolatry, only wonder leads to knowing". The notion that our immediate experience of reality precedes human language is something that has been recognized East and West, but our culture has tended to forget this ever since we became enamored with rationalism in the medieval era.

 

[Lukaris]

The thing is we are confronted with choosing life or death ( Deuteronomy 30:11-20). How we live our lives affects our outcome; the Lord promises anyone who has done good will have eternal life ( John 5:22-30) even those who may not have known Him.

If one does not know Him there is no sense of assurance of salvation. We cannot know whether we have done good or not ( Matthew 19:16-19). Kind of a coin toss option.

It seems as if human existence is an important gateway for coming to realization of bridging the reincarnation-transmigration thing. What if this world is destroyed? It is prophesied as such ( 2 Peter 3:7-13) & whether one believes St. Peter or not, it could happen. Some believe in other worlds, but this is unproven.

 

[dlamberth]

One of the best studies of Christian Mysticism and Zen-Buddhism that I've come across is William Johnston's "The Inner Eye of Love: Mysticism and Religion."

From the back cover:
William Johnston, an Irish Jesuit, is the former director of the Institute of Oriental Religions and Professor of Religious Studies at Sophia University.

Copied from Amazon's Review:
"He explains what mysticism is and is not, and how it is inextricably bound up with love. It is at the level of mysticism, he maintains, that the two traditions of East and West can at last understand one another and begin to work together to heal a broken world. The Inner Eye of Love escorts the reader through the stages of the mystical journey, from initial call to final enlightenment. Johnston compares and contrasts the Oriental and Christian experience, continually revealing new points of commonality The much discussed dark night of the souls seen here in a positive way, as an emptying preliminary to the over brimming of the soul with the knowledge and love of God. Finally, the author considers the often misunderstood relation between mysticism and practical action."

 

[FireDragon76]

One of the best studies of Christian Mysticism and Zen-Buddhism that I've come across is William Johnston's "The Inner Eye of Love: Mysticism and Religion."

From the back cover:
William Johnston, an Irish Jesuit, is the former director of the Institute of Oriental Religions and Professor of Religious Studies at Sophia University.

Copied from Amazon's Review:
"He explains what mysticism is and is not, and how it is inextricably bound up with love. It is at the level of mysticism, he maintains, that the two traditions of East and West can at last understand one another and begin to work together to heal a broken world. The Inner Eye of Love escorts the reader through the stages of the mystical journey, from initial call to final enlightenment. Johnston compares and contrasts the Oriental and Christian experience, continually revealing new points of commonality The much discussed dark night of the souls seen here in a positive way, as an emptying preliminary to the over brimming of the soul with the knowledge and love of God. Finally, the author considers the often misunderstood relation between mysticism and practical action."

I find those sorts of books unhelpful. It's better to understand eastern religions on their own terms, rather than comparing them to Christianity and trying to synthesize them into a western religious paradigm.

Buddhists are non-theists. Though many forms of Buddhism do speak of the Buddha as a cosmic being, this is understood as a provisional concept and not as reified as Abrahamic understandings of God.