Why Are We Divided and Can We Fix It (With the Holy Ghost)?

Monksailor

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Denominations are not what define Christianity and Christianity is not divided on foundational truths of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit is the one who will preserve the body of Christ, not man.

If people have left the truth of the Bible, they are simply not Christian.

There is one Church and one Faith and it crosses many denominational lines.
I agree with what you said, except "If people have left the truth of the Bible, they are simply not Christian." I simply cannot dismiss the parable of "The Prodigal Son" and what Jesus explained it to mean. Neither can I forget how Peter, the Rock himself, betrayed and turned his back on Jesus three times but Jesus remained in the love relationship and did NOT turn His back on Peter. At the same time we must NEVER forget Romans 6:1. NEVER.
 
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rockytopva

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I believe in the seven churches as congregations...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

Messianic, Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Catholicism, Protestantism, Methodist/Brethren/Nazarene, Pentecostal/Charismatic... Lots of denominations! Most denominational birds are well studied in their doctrines and are unwilling to budge.

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. - John 10:16

I believe that there will be one fold in the afterlife. I also believe that there will be many surprised people to find a variety in heaven!
 
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eleos1954

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This is a very serious question I have concerning denominations. Denominations are NOT scriptural. Schisms and differing doctrines (from the one given by the Apostles in their teachings and letters) are to be avoided. How did we get to have over 3000 denominations? How could we fix this? Do people want to fix this? Could a full on ALL Christians ecumenical council occur to join us at least almost fully together? Is this idea of One Church and One Faith a pipe dream until He returns?


Is this idea of One Church and One Faith a pipe dream until He returns?

Sadly - Yes, it is a pipe dream.

How did we get to have over 3000 denominations? Go read about the History of Christianly. Misunderstandings, confusion, disagreements, knowledge of God's Holy word.

I'll be so glad when the Lord returns. Amen
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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Don't the free masons go higher than 33? I had an old parchment certificate with gold seals attached and multiple signatures and such for a higher level like 36 or 37, I think. It belonged to a relative from whom I inherited all of his books and papers and it was mixed in it all. The person it was awarded to was not my relative as it was a totally different name. He must have been holding it for him or such. My relative was in in a highly regarded profession.
HI you are right their are higher degrees that can be reached. A master mason is one who has climbed to 33rd degree. After that there are other orders and degrees. I found many years ago some 100 year old masonic robes that included a 32nd and 33rd degree hand embroidered ones that were very creepy. One had a bull on it and was very dark in a occult sense. That next few days I studied Mansonic teaching like Albert Pike and Manly P Hall who both openly admit they serve Lucifer in their writings. I read a testimony of a 33rd degree Mason who got out and exposed many of the oaths and beliefs. These facts were consistent in many other exposes by others who have left and in Masonic books which were discovered too. So I ran into a man who had a giant gold masonic ring on right after studying this. I warned him that the Masonic stuff was dangerous and he said why. I told him as you progress they will eventually tell you Lucifer is the light bearer. This man was a very high ranking mason and he defended Lucifer as the light bearer and even cursed Jesus.
Its amazing to me that with Jesus the 1st level brings you to the highest level and that is forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit and the promise of eternal life. The gospel is the highest truth you can have. If we are to be united it would be on a message of repentance and believe in the Gospel and to love and serve one another.
 
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aiki

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This is a very serious question I have concerning denominations. Denominations are NOT scriptural. Schisms and differing doctrines (from the one given by the Apostles in their teachings and letters) are to be avoided. How did we get to have over 3000 denominations? How could we fix this? Do people want to fix this? Could a full on ALL Christians ecumenical council occur to join us at least almost fully together? Is this idea of One Church and One Faith a pipe dream until He returns?

"Denominations are not scriptural"? Well, they don't appear in Scripture, no, but neither do cinnamon buns, or dishwashers, or running shoes. Are these things, therefore, to be rejected and forsaken? No, that would be silly. A thing is not evil simply because it is not scriptural.

Many denominations exist for reasons of cultural heritage rather than doctrine. In my city, for example, we have Swedish Baptists and German Baptists. They have formed separate organizations for reasons pertaining to language and culture, not doctrinal differences. Many denominations exist as a consequence of geography, too, or as a result, not of varying doctrine, but of degree of emphasis. Some denominations put more emphasis on healing, for instance, like the Missionary Alliance denomination, but on the essentials of the faith their doctrinal statement is practically identical to a Baptist's or to that of the Evangelical Free denomination. The existence of denominations, then, does not necessarily always equal difference of doctrine and disagreement.

Not having a centralized, universal organization under which all Christians operate prevents the sort of totalitarian abuses of which the Roman Catholic Church has been historically guilty. Consider the Inquisition, for instance. The current de-centralized, non-uniform character of the Church is the single greatest preventative against the dictatorial monstrosities that always develop when religious power is consolidated under an elite few. The only One who can be trusted with such authority and power is Christ himself. I will wait until he returns for the proper and full unification of His Bride, the Church, under his perfect Lordship.
 
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aiki

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I would add that the truth is also divisive and exclusivistic. Christ makes this point very clearly:

Matthew 10:32-36
32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.
33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
35 For I have come to 'set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law';
36 and 'a man's enemies will be those of his own household.'


Christ, who is the Truth (John 14:6), divides people. Truth generally has this divisive, exclusivistic quality. If 3+3=6, then it cannot equal any other number. The true sum of this equation excludes all other sums. If a ball is entirely red, it cannot also be yellow, or blue at the same time. The red color of the ball means the ball is not any other color. When a person says, "This is true," they necessarily exclude other things as false. It is not surprising, then, that when people believe they know the truth of Scripture, that one of the unavoidable consequences is division and exclusion. This is simply the natural result of making a truth claim. But I would rather have two people differing in their belief about what is true than two people who are willing to abandon their beliefs at every turn for the sake of unity. How does the saying go? "A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."
 
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Yarddog

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This is a very serious question I have concerning denominations. Denominations are NOT scriptural. Schisms and differing doctrines (from the one given by the Apostles in their teachings and letters) are to be avoided. How did we get to have over 3000 denominations? How could we fix this? Do people want to fix this? Could a full on ALL Christians ecumenical council occur to join us at least almost fully together? Is this idea of One Church and One Faith a pipe dream until He returns?
Not sure if full communion can be reached. Do you think that most would be willing to return to the Catholic Church and that the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church can return to the time of the Great Schism? Maybe we should stop judging each other and do as the scripture says.
Romans 14:
1 But him that is weak in faith receive ye, [yet] not for decision of scruples.
2 One man hath faith to eat all things: but he that is weak eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth set at nought him that eateth not; and let not him that eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest the servant of another? to his own lord he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be made to stand; for the Lord hath power to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord: and he that eateth, eateth unto the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, unto the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and none dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; or whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ died and lived [again], that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 But thou, why dost thou judge thy brother? or thou again, why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment-seat of God.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, to me every knee shall bow, And every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then each one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge ye this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock in his brother's way, or an occasion of falling.
14 I know, and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean of itself: save that to him who accounteth anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15 For if because of meat thy brother is grieved, thou walkest no longer in love. Destroy not with thy meat him for whom Christ died.
16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
18 For he that herein serveth Christ is well-pleasing to God, and approved of men.
19 So then let us follow after things which make for peace, and things whereby we may edify one another.
20 Overthrow not for meat's sake the work of God. All things indeed are clean; howbeit it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21 It is good not to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [to do anything] whereby thy brother stumbleth.
22 The faith which thou hast, have thou to thyself before God. Happy is he that judgeth not himself in that which he approveth.
23 But he that doubteth is condemned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith; and whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
 
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Hawkins

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This is a very serious question I have concerning denominations. Denominations are NOT scriptural. Schisms and differing doctrines (from the one given by the Apostles in their teachings and letters) are to be avoided. How did we get to have over 3000 denominations? How could we fix this? Do people want to fix this? Could a full on ALL Christians ecumenical council occur to join us at least almost fully together? Is this idea of One Church and One Faith a pipe dream until He returns?

First, the 3000 is an exaggerated effect. We may have more than that but they are not in equal influence and equal popularity. Basically our earthly church sticks close to the Apostle's Creed to stand.

Second, the 3000 variance may not be about the salvation. From this perspective, the Bible can be divided into the salvation message and knowledge. Most denominational variance is not a variance in terms of salvation, it is a variance in knowledge interpreted differently instead. On the other hand, if it is a variance in the salvation message, then it's a heresy.

So legitimate denominations all share the same single one message of salvation.

Daniel 12:4 (NIV2011)
But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”

We have more than 6 billion human brains in this planet. They all think that they are scientifically and rationally and critically equipped. Seeking knowledge is thus a characteristic of the time of the end. The more the denominations, it could be that the more people can find one to suit for himself. This is not a bad thing at all, as long as most denominations share the same salvation message preached by our earthly church which can basically be identified the the faith statements in Apostle's Creed.
 
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Shempster

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You can look at it from another perspective to get some insight on it.
Look at the Amish community. They are Christians who have a different worldview than the rest of us so they separate from the rest and form sects. Then over time, discussions of doctrine are disagreed with and subgroups splinter off. The longer time goes on, the more splintering there will be.
The Christian church is exactly like this.

The issue is that the source where we get our doctrines from seems to have numerous interpretations. The oddity is that it claims that there is only one interpretation that no individual interpretation can trump.

So what is the correct interpretation, one might ask?
The answer is always the same...."it is MY groups interpretation" :lost:
 
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Monksailor

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I believe in the seven churches as congregations...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

Messianic, Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Catholicism, Protestantism, Methodist/Brethren/Nazarene, Pentecostal/Charismatic... Lots of denominations! Most denominational birds are well studied in their doctrines and are unwilling to budge.

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. - John 10:16

I believe that there will be one fold in the afterlife. I also believe that there will be many surprised people to find a variety in heaven!
I know one thing, according to Jesus there will be many surprised people basing their salvation upon their good deeds and works, even casting demons out in Jesus' name, who thinking they are definitely on their way to heaven in eternity will encounter a detour with the words, "Depart from Me, I knew you Not!" with a fiery glow in the distance above the path. As far as Revelations goes, all of the cryptic decoding of the 7 churches, colors, animals, and such I'll leave that for the Lord to show me when I get there; solely based upon what He did for me leading to and upon the cross.
 
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Archivist

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Unification is easy. Let's all (except me) throw our beliefs away, and let everybody accept mine.

You don't like that? Thought not.
Well said Radagast. I’ve already had people in CF tell me that I cannot be saved because I was baptized as an infant and I was sprinkled not immersed. I’ve had another tell me that I cannot be saved because my church uses wine for holy communion, not grape juice. Some denominations won’t even allow those who are not part of their denomination to take communion in their church. How do we compromise and come together as one when some hold such views?
 
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TaiKamiya720

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So where do your beliefs fall, traditional, new age, dispensationalism, ect. Your beliefs would probably fall into one catorgory of a denomination therefor I do not accept a person saying that they are non-denominational.

If you were to list your beliefs then I am sure that the folks reading would understand what denomination you are following wheather you belong to that denomination or not.
Even if someone claims to just being a non denominational bible believing Christian, I can tell which Tradition he or she holds to by judging by their individual beliefs. For instance, if a "Bible believing" non denominational Christian holds to a belief in free will, then I could tell that person must be Arminian.
Isn't it ironic how non denominational Protestants and the Church of Christ claim that they supposedly reject denominational man made traditions and creeds, but yet hold to some tradition to at least some degree themselves. So even the Church of Christ is a denomination themselves.
 
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rockytopva

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Even if someone claims to just being a non denominational bible believing Christian, I can tell which Tradition he or she holds to by judging by their individual beliefs. For instance, if a "Bible believing" non denominational Christian holds to a belief in free will, then I could tell that person must be Arminian.
Isn't it ironic how non denominational Protestants and the Church of Christ claim that they supposedly reject man made traditions, but yet hold to some tradition to at least some degree themselves. Even the Church of Christ, which also claims to supoosedly reject all denominational traditions and creeds, are a denomination themselves.

Protestants were not the only ones to reject tradition....

1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. - Matthew 15
 
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rockytopva

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I believe in the seven churches as congregations...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

Messianic, Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Catholicism, Protestantism, Methodist/Brethren/Nazarene, Pentecostal/Charismatic... Lots of denominations! Most denominational birds are well studied in their doctrines and are unwilling to budge.

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. - John 10:16

I believe that there will be one fold in the afterlife. I also believe that there will be many surprised people to find a variety in heaven!

If I have understood the seven churches correctly... We all have issues... And the issue with my congregation...

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: - Revelation 3:12

In otherwords, we are in revival... And then out of revival. The main gripe against my own congregation is that we could not keep the revival going... Which is a big gripe!

The Merrimac Pentecostal Holiness church in its heyday. They would have many revivals a year, some going for weeks! My grandfather use to attend revivals and sometimes not come home until the wee hours of the morning, but would have no trouble arising for work the next day!

Merrimac_zps2a25944e.jpg
 
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SBC

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This is a very serious question I have concerning denominations. Denominations are NOT scriptural. Schisms and differing doctrines (from the one given by the Apostles in their teachings and letters) are to be avoided. How did we get to have over 3000 denominations? How could we fix this? Do people want to fix this? Could a full on ALL Christians ecumenical council occur to join us at least almost fully together? Is this idea of One Church and One Faith a pipe dream until He returns?

3,000 denominations?

Approx 80% of the US population identifies themselves as Christian.
The very basics of one identifying themselves as a Christian is established in Scripture ~

Belief ~ Confession

1 John 4
  1. [2] Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Different denominations? <---- that simply exceeds the basic belief - to HOW they elect to personally organize and dictate what is acceptable to them.

Have a water baptismal pool in the sanctuary, allow dancing, playing cards, make up, cutting hair, wearing hair long, women only in dresses, gambling allowed or not, listening to music, certain types of music, watching TV, going to movies, dating protocol, marriage protocol, eating of certain foods, not eating certain foods, types of education public, private, or jointly with mixed gender or not, involved in politics, allowed to drink or not, allowed to participate in the military or not, can or can not smoke, use pharmaceuticals, watch or participate in sports, and their understanding of SIN, and Jesus' beginning of eternal being without beginning; and on and on and on, whatever one can dream up, to allow or disallow, as a member of their denomination, they have decided is suitable or not, and people join, according to their own acceptance or not of such beliefs - ALL in addition to the very basic belief that is constant -

1 John 4
  1. [2] Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
Is this idea of One Church and One Faith a pipe dream until He returns?

no.

One Church is Christ's Church, that He established the foundation thereof -

Christ is established as, the Rock, THEE foundation of His Church.

The building of His Church is being "built" daily, as new members are joined in FAITH -

Believing in full FAITHFULNESS ~

Matt 16:
[16] ... Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.


Christ's Church is not a mason, brick, mortar, stick frame VISIBLE BUILDING.
His Church IS SPIRITUAL.
All members of His Church are SPIRITUALLY converted, by their individual CHOICES, for Christ to SPIRITUALLY and internally, forgive, cleanse, sanctify, anoint, restore, quicken, justify, new members within His Church to forever be alive and with the Lord, as a one body of congregants in ONE FAITH and ONE LORD and ONE Church body.

All the different "Christian" "denominations", are not about FAITH, but simply personal preferences, they elect to incorporate as their own standing /mission, of how to teach and effect congregants personal life-styles, that they belief are beneficial in serving the Lord in an honorable / acceptable /glorifying way.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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Original Happy Camper

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Even if someone claims to just being a non denominational bible believing Christian, I can tell which Tradition he or she holds to by judging by their individual beliefs. For instance, if a "Bible believing" non denominational Christian holds to a belief in free will, then I could tell that person must be Arminian.
Isn't it ironic how non denominational Protestants and the Church of Christ claim that they supposedly reject denominational man made traditions and creeds, but yet hold to some tradition to at least some degree themselves. So even the Church of Christ is a denomination themselves.

I do not believe there is such a thing as non denominational. Every person claiming to be a christian has doctrine that they believe and that doctrine will fall into one denomination or another.

So where do non denominational people go to worship the LORD as a corporate body, a denominational church?
 
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I believe in the seven churches as congregations...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

Messianic, Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Catholicism, Protestantism, Methodist/Brethren/Nazarene, Pentecostal/Charismatic... Lots of denominations! Most denominational birds are well studied in their doctrines and are unwilling to budge.

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. - John 10:16

I believe that there will be one fold in the afterlife. I also believe that there will be many surprised people to find a variety in heaven!

***
"I believe that there will be one fold in the afterlife. I also believe that there will be many surprised people to find a variety in heaven!"

After all is done on earth, definitely one fold in heaven, no doubt there.

Seems to me, although the seven church messages applied to the experiences of the specific churches they were written to in their day, they are also prophetic of the experiences of the Church through the centuries. Each of the letters also contains admonishments appropriate to God's people in every age.

Regarding to John 10:16

Since we have a personal relationship with Jesus I also believe there will be saved people there that never attended or rarely attended, "organized church" on earth. His people are all over the earth. Yeah I would agree it's going to be a surprise for sure not only who is there, but who is not there. Regardless "they shall hear my voice" and Amen to that.
 
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