Why are most Christians so accepting of magic

[BryanJohnMaloney]

Food is a necessity to live. Eating a piece of meat sacrificed to an idol also had restrictions, too. You could not eat such meat around certain individuals.

Food is a creation of God. No man change food so as to be sinful on a atomic level. But when men create a movie, and put their sinful ideas within them, then it is a sinful creation of man. They promote sin within these movies without any correction of such sins. Like hanging out with worldly old buddies that still sin, a secular movie, book, video game, comic book, or song can promote ideas of sin upon you and influence you to sin. I remember when I was a kid and I played Dungeons and Dragons. By my playing that game, I was influenced to wanting to cast a real spell. Good thing the Lord protected me from my brief desire at that time in my life from going down a wrong path, but sin being promoted in secular entertainment has a way of making you to want to sin in real life. It's just like hanging out with people who sin. It is no different. What fellowship does light have with darkness?

You're splitting hairs merely to rationalize your prejudices. I played D&D, and I wasn't weak-minded. I never felt the desire to "cast a real spell". Thus, you merely prove my reference to I Corinthians 8 to be correct. The weak-minded must be looked after and their weaknesses considered. What is no hazard to those who are strong of mind and strong in the faith can be a threat to the weak.

 

[mlepfitjw]

Jesus Christ has paid for my sins though. All of them for the world. It’s subjective.

Tell the details of a story of sex outside of marriage, drunkenness, or child abuse, (without any correction of such sins), and you tell a story that promotes sin. Yes, I know. It is hard in our entertainment driven culture to accept that worldly secular entertainment is actually sinful, but it is. If you go out with some buddies that do sinful things, those sinful things can rub off on to you. It's no different with a sinful movie. Watch a movie with women showing their butts up against the screen and a man can lust and fall under condemnation in Matthew 5:28-30.

Take the sin you find most offensive, and imagine you read a similar story like that of Narnia without all the sorcery and witchcraft. But instead of magic, it was replaced with the sin that you hate the most instead. This sin was thrown in your face and never corrected and it was used as a backdrop to the story. Then to make it worse, they call it Christian because it has some Christian elements in the theme of the story all while the sin is silently being promoted in the background that you hate (without any correction of that sin being wrong).

At this point, if you do not see what I am talking about it is because this is a spiritual matter. Many here in America have made movies, books, comic books, video games, and music as their personal idols. Even many Christians are still hooked into this trap. I could not see it entirely myself until October of 2016. It was the month that I decided to put away secular entertainment out of my life for good. When I did so, the Lord opened my eyes to the evil of secular worldly entertainment. For many years I was a Christian and could not see it before.

The Lord will either one day show you the truth on this in your love for Him, or your love for the things of this world will take precedence over our Lord. One will have to give way.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Instead of being aware of the real dangers of the real occult

Real occult, real magic, real spells, real witches.

So nobody ever wonders why we never have any magician or witch on YouTube casting spells and being filthy rich ?

Nobody ever wonders why none of these magicians and witches go and grab few supernatural testing prizes ?

List of prizes for evidence of the paranormal - Wikipedia

Dozens of prizes from a period lasting a century. All unclaimed. Why would that be ?

There is no evidence at all of witchcraft or magic working to do anything at all apart from some psychological effects.

And people worry about “casting a spell” in a video game.

Peculiar.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus Christ has paid for my sins though. All of them for the world. It’s subjective.

Here is a snippet from an article you should check out:

“Evangelical members believe that in order to be saved, the only thing which we should do is to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and personal Savior by faith. And once you accepted Him through faith, you have now an assured salvation in heaven. No need of good works or following the commandments of God, but through faith alone, we will be saved according to them.

Sorry to say this, but I think this kind of belief is not just unbiblical but shameful, careless and dirty in its entire content. Imagine a person who thinks he was already saved and destined to heaven no matter what he will do, whether he do evil or not. Remember what happened in LA Fitness Gym in Pennsylvania on August 4, 2009? When a man named George Sodini fired 50 rounds into an aerobic class before turning the gun on himself. The shooting resulted four deaths (including Sodini himself) and nine injured. George Sodini was a member of the Tetelestai Church where he sat quietly for many years, listening to the deceptions of his preacher. Talking about the pastor of his Church, Sodini wrote in his blog dated Dec. 31, 2008,

“this guy” (Alan “Rick” Knapp) “teaches (and convinced me) you can commit mass murder then still go to heaven. Ask him.“

And in a post dated August 3, 2009, Sodini said;

“Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for every sin, so how can I or you be judged by GOD for a sin when the penalty was already paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.


Excerpt From Sodini's Blog

After the horrible incident in Pennsylvania, Pastor Knapp’s deacon, Jack Rickard commented on Sodini’s death and said;

“George is going to heaven, but he’s not going to get his rewards,” (SOURCE )

Kenneth Nally, another believer of this unscrupulous doctrine, committed suicide in 1980 after he was taught that even self-murder would not stop a person once saved from going to heaven.”

​

Source:
O.S.A.S. – THE WATCHMAN'S CRY

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You're splitting hairs merely to rationalize your prejudices. I played D&D, and I wasn't weak-minded. I never felt the desire to "cast a real spell". Thus, you merely prove my reference to I Corinthians 8 to be correct. The weak-minded must be looked after and their weaknesses considered. What is no hazard to those who are strong of mind and strong in the faith can be a threat to the weak.

You miss the point. I am living proof that people can fall into the temptation of sin by the promotion of sin within secular entertainment. Just because you did not falter does not mean others cannot. I mean, you would not take a child to a topless joint just because it may not affect you in any way.

Within the game: Instead of the sin of witchcraft, insert into the blank with say the sin of porn, or the sin of child abuse, or the sin grizzly murder, etc. Do we have a liberty in Christ to fantasize about these sins? I don't believe that this is related to eating meat sacrificed to idols. So you are trying to connect two things together that do not actually relate in order to justify something that is wrong. But believe as you wish. Only God can reveal such a thing to you if you are truly seeking to follow the Lord and His good ways and not the ways of this world.

“Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.” (Philippians 4:8).​

How can one obey this above verse and yet fill their minds with sinful things all the time from secular worldly entertainment?

We are told by Paul to think on the following things: whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

What is helpful in understanding 1 John 1:8 is looking at its immediate context. 1 John 1:10 says if we say we have not sinned. 1 John 1:10 switches gears from 1 John 1:8 in regards to time; John talks about the declaration on committing sin in verse 8 (which is present tense) to a declaration on committing sin being a past declaration (with verse 10). Verse 10 is saying there are people who said they have not sinned (past tense). This is clearly a gnostic belief. Why? Well, most believers today hold to the idea that they have sinned as a part of their old life before coming to Christ (Regardless of whether they are “OSAS,” a “Sin and still be saved” type believer, or a “Conditional Salvationist”). So this clearly is a “gnostic belief” that John was warning the brethren about (See 1 John 2:26). 1 John 1:8 is a present declaration of sin. It is saying if we say we have no sin when we do sin (present tense). This has to be the interpretative understanding of this verse because 1 John 2:4 says if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us. The OSAS's interpretation on 1 John 1:8 does not work because it conflicts with a normal reading on 1 John 2:3-4. You cannot always be in sin (breaking God's commands) as a part of 1 John 1:8 and yet also fulfill 1 John 2:3 that says we can have an assurance of knowing Him if we keep His commandments. Especially when 1 John 2:4 says we are a liar and the truth is not in us if we break his commandments. In other words, if the OSAS interpretation on 1 John 1:8 was true, then I would be damned if I do by obeying God's commands (1 John 1:8) and yet I would be damned if I don't by not obeying God's commands (1 John 2:4).

In fact, the New English Translation says this for 1 John 1:8,

"If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8 NET).​

In other words, this verse is saying that if a person sins and says they do not bear the guilt of sin (in the sense that they will not have to face any wrath or Judgment from God over their sin) then they would be deceiving themselves and the truth would not be in them. This is exactly what the Eternal Security proposes. They are saying that they do not bear the guilt of any sin (destruction of their soul and body in hell fire) if they do sin because they believe their future sins are paid for by Jesus. They are saying, they do not bear the guilt or the punishment of sin at the final Judgment because of their belief on Jesus. In short, 1 John 1:8 is a denial of the existence of sin on some level. “If we say we have no sin (in the sense that it does not exist) we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8). Christian Scientists think sin is an illusion and does not exist at all. So this verse would apply to them. Eternal Security Proponents and those who deny that “Sin Can Separate a Believer from God” deny the existence of sin partially. They believe sin exists physically but they do not believe sin exists for them on a spiritual level because Jesus has forgiven them of all their sin by their belief on Jesus. In fact, to see just how silly your argument actually is for 1 John 1:8, you would have to believe that you are sinning right now at this very moment in order for such a verse to be true because 1 John 1:8 is speaking in the present tense.

John prescribes that we do not think that sin is an illusion, and we are automatically saved, but John is telling us to "sin not" and go to our advocate Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1), and confess our sins so as to be forgiven of sin and to be cleansed of all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). How can you confess and be forgiven of sin if all your future sin is paid for? It makes no sense.

You can say that John is talking about a break of fellowship by one's sins and not a loss of salvation, but that would not be consistent with Scripture. 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life.

 

[mlepfitjw]

Doesn’t matter @Bible Highlighter. It is still subjective. What some find offensive material some may not. It’s not even worth fighting about because all sin has been paid for my dude. By the Lord Jesus, for the whole world. I am on to tend in the thinking of let God be God and the judge of our hearts. Now what we judge what is right or what is wrong.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Doesn’t matter @Bible Highlighter. It is still subjective. What some find offensive material some may not. It’s not even worth fighting about because all sin has been paid for my dude. By the Lord Jesus, for the whole world. I am on to tend in the thinking of let God be God and the judge of our hearts. Now what we judge what is right or what is wrong.

Unfortunately what you believe here is not what the Bible teaches.
You are confusing “Provisional Atonement” with “Justification.”

There are 4 different aspects of salvation described in the Scriptures.

#1. Provisional Atonement (not "Limited Atonement").
(A 100% Work of God alone that can only be applied personally to an individual's life via by Justification and Sanctification).
This is Jesus paying the price for the sins of the entire world so as to offer mankind the free gift of salvation (if they so choose to accept it); Note: Christ's resurrection (to give us a new body not tainted by sin one day), and the ascension to the Father (after Christ telling Mary not to touch Him), and his entering the holy temple by his blood (to be our Heavenly High Priest) is also included in the Provisional Atonement, too. (For Provisional Atonement verses, see: John 1:29, 1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:6, 2 Corinthians 5:19, Romans 5:6-8.).

#2. Justification (Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation).
(The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer).
Justification is the entrance gate to salvation, and it is the foundation of our salvation (by faith) upon which we stand. Justification is believing the gospel (Which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes it - Romans 1:16). According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: The gospel is you believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, He was buried, and He had risen again three days later for your salvation (Note: Do not let anyone sell you on another gospel besides this one). Depending on a person’s access or exposure to the Word: Justification will also generally include receiving Jesus as your Savior (John 1:12), and calling upon the name of the Lord (i.e. confessing with your mouth the words: “Lord Jesus” or similar equivalent - Romans 10:9) as a part of seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 15:18-21) (Luke 18:9-14). This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace and His redemptive work. As a result: One is born again spiritually (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures - Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:23)). A person is foundationally or ultimately saved by God’s grace because if they happen to sin on rare occasion in their Christian walk, they do not do a good work to absolve that sin, but they confess of their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (Hebrews 4:16) (For Justification verses, see: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-6, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 18:9-14, Romans 5:1-2).

#3. Sanctification (The Next Step or Phase in the Salvation Process).
(The 2nd synergistic work of God done in a believer).
Sanctification is the next step or phase in Salvation for a believer who lives out their faith; This is the work of God moving in a believer's life so as to help them to live holy, and to do good works and to put away the lusts of the flesh. These good works are the works of God done through the believer, and so all boasting or praise is given to the Lord. Therefore, there is no boasting in one's own work because they are ultimately the works of God done through the believer. A believer today who obeys the Lord looks to the commands of Jesus and His followers within the New Testament primarily. For believers today are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole package deal (even though certain laws have carried over into the New Testament). Basically all ceremonial laws and judicial laws in the Old Testament no longer apply. For example: Believers do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, animal sacrifices, holy days, etc.; However, believers must keep God's Moral Laws like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, do commit adultery, etc.; Two of the greatest commands that we should focus on daily is to love God and love our neighbor which is more fully described in Mark 12:29-31. We need to worship or adore the Lord our God, preach the gospel, help the poor, love the brethren, love our enemies, and live holy lives, etc. (For Sanctification verses, see: James 2:24, James 2:17-18, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 12:14, Romans 8:1 (KJV), 1 Corinthians 16:22, Romans 8:13, etc.).

#4. Glorification (The Future Salvation of the Truly Faithful Believer).
(A 100% Work of God alone that can only be applied personally to an individual's life via by Justification and Sanctification).
Glorification is when God takes the believer home to be with Him in His kingdom and He gives Him a new resurrected body that is not tainted by sin. This process of salvation (in being taken home) is a by product automatically for those believers who properly applied Justification and Sanctification to their lives (For Glorification verses, see: 1 Peter 5:4, 1 Peter 1:4, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, Romans 13:11, Philippians 3:20-21, Hebrews 9:28).


Conclusion:

Justification, and then Sanctification is what we as believers need to be focused on. For if we are justified, and sanctified (which is only made possible by the Provisional Atonement), then we will be glorified.

If things are as you say, then we would have a very small New Testament. There would be no warnings against sin, and no commands, etc. We would see all believers in the NT justify sin with God approving. But that is not what we read in the New Testament.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Doesn’t matter @Bible Highlighter. It is still subjective. What some find offensive material some may not. It’s not even worth fighting about because all sin has been paid for my dude. By the Lord Jesus, for the whole world. I am on to tend in the thinking of let God be God and the judge of our hearts. Now what we judge what is right or what is wrong.

I would say it does matter because if you care about what is good, you would not brush off what George Sodini did. George Sodini believed the lie of Eternal Security and the lie that his future sin was paid for and he ended up killing a bunch of people, and then he killed himself (thinking he was saved). In fact, after he did this horrible incident, his own church said he was saved (despite what he did). That is the fruits of this kind of teaching. With this kind of belief: People will think they can sin and still be saved. If you don't care about that which is good or in doing good and it really doesn't matter and what George Sodini did, then we are done talking. I cannot rationalize with a person who does not understand the seriousness of the basics of right and wrong.

God is good.

 

[mlepfitjw]

0K have a nice day brother, may grace of our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

it was nice talking to you.

I would say it does matter because if you care about what is good, you would not brush off what George Sodini did. George Sodini believed the lie of Eternal Security and the lie that his future sin was paid for and he ended up killing a bunch of people, and then he killed himself (thinking he was saved). In fact, after he did this horrible incident, his own church said he was saved (despite what he did). That is the fruits of this kind of teaching. With this kind of belief: People will think they can sin and still be saved. If you don't care about that which is good or in doing good and it really doesn't matter and what George Sodini did, then we are done talking. I cannot rationalize with a person who does not understand the seriousness of the basics of right and wrong.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

0K have a nice day brother, may grace of our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

it was nice talking to you.

Thank you for the kind words, but I do hope you understood where I was coming from with the problem of George Sodini. Do a Google search on him using the keywords “George Sodini OSAS.”

 

[Archivist]

With this kind of belief: People will think they can sin and still be saved. If you don't care about that which is good or in doing good and it really doesn't matter and what George Sodini did, then we are done talking. I cannot rationalize with a person who does not understand the seriousness of the basics of right and wrong.

No we all sin. If we say we have no sin the truth is not in us. That is why we confess our sins.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No we all sin. If we say we have no sin the truth is not in us. That is why we confess our sins.

You just keep telling yourself if that makes you feel better; But it's not what the Bible teaches and you know it deep down.

 

[Archivist]

You just keep telling yourself if that makes you feel better; But it's not what the Bible teaches and you know it deep down.

No, it is exactly what the Bible teaches. If you say you are without sin you deceive yourself.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No, it is exactly what the Bible teaches. If you say you are without sin you deceive yourself.

I already explained 1 John 1:8 in what it is saying based on the context and real life. There is no need to repeat what I already stated. Those who have ears to hear and eyes to see will see and hear.

 

[Archivist]

I already explained 1 John 1:8 in what it is saying based on the context and real life. There is no need to repeat what I already stated. Those who have ears to hear and eyes to see will see and hear.

So you are living without sin. I guess you just keep quiet during confession.

I am a poor sinner, saved by the Blood of the Lamb. That doesn’t mean I don’t sin, it means my sins are forgiven.

You are entitled to your interpretation of scripture but it is just that, your interpretation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So you are living without sin. I guess you just keep quiet during confession.

I am a poor sinner, saved by the Blood of the Lamb. That doesn’t mean I don’t sin, it means my sins are forgiven.

You are entitled to your interpretation of scripture but it is just that, your interpretation.

May God bless you.

 

[Jermayn]

I believe this comes down to personal conviction, like the eating of meat discussed by Paul (I think it was in Corinthians). I know it's not real so I don't really have any conviction for watching things like Harry Potter, but others may, and if they are at my house, I will refrain from watching those things so as not to offend them.

 

[MBM888]

I know this is something of an older post, but I registered just so I could read it and reply.

I'm posting this in January of 2021, so my reply will probably be different than what came before.

IMO, a lot of people who are into fantasy fiction know the difference between what's real and what isn't. Witches don't really fly on brooms, you can't shoot fire from your wand or fingertips, and mandrake doesn't scream when pulled from the ground. That's the main difference.

That being said, I think most Christians are pretty discerning, and not everything affects everyone's faith in the same way. The OP said the Holy Spirit convicted him or her of this, but the HS hasn't done that with every other Christian. Why? I have no idea; God works in mysterious ways. But He has made it clear that not everything will affect everyone of faith in the same way.

Add to that the big scares in the 80s and 90s of very ridiculous things by "Christian" groups saying things like Dungeons and Dragons was wrong and occultish, when it's nothing of the sort. (It's a board game, like Monopoly or Sorry! or Uno.) So a lot of us Christian geeky and nerdy types have a hard time taking someone seriously who's scared of Harry Potter.

Anyroad, that's my viewpoint on it. If it's not your thing, that's fine; you don't have to watch those things, or participate in them. But I think telling others that they are bad for going to the movies to watch something like that may be taking things a bit too far. And if you're a parent who would freak out because their kid is secretly reading a fantasy novel with fantasy magic in it, then that's not great, either.

 

[MBM888]

(I'm still aware the reply was well over a year ago. A year and a half, I think.)

So, I'm married to a gamer. He's in his mid-40s. He's also a Christian. I'm also a Christian, and casual gamer.

Not everything has to be 100% Godly for God to be okay with us enjoying it. That's straight from my very conservative Baptist preacher. My fuzzy socks have Jack Skellington on them. They were bought for me for Christmas by conservative Church of Christ friends.

I would never, ever tell my hubby that he wasn't allowed to play any FF game; he loves those things! He loves a lot of game franchises, as do I! (I can't tell you how many hours I put into Skyrim! lol) Also, the FF games are very Japanese, so you have to take it all with a grain of salt.

If you are in a position where no one in your family plays video games or is interested in fantasy or sci fi, and everyone only wants to watch the purest of the pure (or nothing at all), then that's great and fine and dandy. But, if you have a spouse or kid or parent or friend who is interested in that stuff, then you can't be super-judgmental when that's their hobby they need to relax.

It's okay to have a non-spiritual hobby, is what I'm saying. Whether it's fixing a car, or building birdhouses, or collecting and playing games...it's all good. (Unless your hobby is murdering prostitutes and collecting their hair or something, that is. Clearly, there's a limit.)

It may be great by worldly standards, but not by Godly standards. Final Fantasy VII doesn't honor God in the slightest, and this is my point. It contains a wide array of spiritual aspects like the lifestream which gives life to all on the planet, Sephiroth wanting to absorb the energy of the lifestream in order to become like a god, magic materia which is basically just casting spells and more. You see, it's the spiritual truths that lie behind the ideas that is my problem, not necessarily the game itself. I, like you, enjoyed Final Fantasy VII a lot and it was a big part of my childhood, but as a Christian I can't turn a blind eye and let negative spiritual influences into my life if I'm to live by Godly standards.

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Romans 12:2