Why are most Christians so accepting of magic

[Bible Highlighter]

I just don't understand why you wouldn't want to help others out in explaining the Bible. So the ball is back in your court.

It's not a matter of not wanting to help people. It's a matter of understanding the best way to help them.

So your saying that the Bible is not the best way to help people?
I was talking about explaining the Bible so as to help other readers who came across this forum.
Not explaining certain verses only strengthens my argument in that I am correct.
My verses have gone unchallenged, and there is no explanation given by my opponents on this topic.

If you go up to a Wiccan, and tell them all the Biblical reasons you think they are wrong without even being willing to sit down and get to know them on a personal level, or what they believe, all they are going to do is roll their eyes and walk away. They have likely heard all the arguments before. It will come across to them more as a desire to bully them into submission of what you in particular say, and less as a desire to understand and care for them as human beings. But, if you make an effort to get to know them, to understand where they are coming from (again, without giving up your own convictions), and are willing to be open, then that will do far, far more than just preaching at people. (Most of a preacher's/reverend's/etc's job isn't the preaching itself; it's the ministry to individuals who are hurt or in pain. It's listening to people, not just talking.)

The Bible says: What fellowship does light have with darkness?
Fellowshiping with those of this world is not how we reach the lost.
It's the Word of God that will in time convict them of their sins if they ever will come around to their senses one day in accepting the truth of God's Word. Romans 10:17 says faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God. Faith does not come by us getting to know them better or becoming friends.

Perhaps you are a high-functioning autistic. I have a few friends who are. They have a hard time when it comes to interpersonal dialogue.

Nope. That is not it. I have had close friends over the years, and our conversations were very fruitful.
Again, the reason for why I do not discuss my personal life is because it can potentially causes heated debates. Posting your personal life on the internet can also potentially lead to problems for your life, as well. For not everyone has your best interest at heart. I am here to talk about the Holy Bible and not my personal life.

But the fact is, "No one cares how much you know, until they know how much you care." The most important verses in the Bible are "Love God, and love others as much as you love yourself." You have to be willing to get personal with people before you tell them how much of the Gospel you know.

It is written:

“He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.” (John 21:17).

In other words, Jesus was telling Peter that if he loved Him, he should feed his sheep by teaching them the Word of God. For obviously Jesus was not talking about food. For man shall not live by bread alone but by every Word of God.

To put it simply, you can preach all the Bible knowledge you have all day long, but if you don't actually care about people, they aren't going to care what you have to say.

I can show how I have care for a person without indulging my personal life to them. When a person helps the poor, they don't have to tell them about their life. I believe my personal life is reserved for my close family, and my close brothers and sisters in the Lord. Sure, I may let a few tid bits slip out (without intending it), but I try to keep pretty focused on staying on mission in preaching God's Holy Word here on the forums. It's Christian Forums, and not Facebook, or Twitter. People have gotten fired from their jobs, and or lost relationships because they shared their personal information on Social Media. I am here to talk about the Christian faith (Which is rooted in the Holy Bible). So I will talk about the Holy Bible. That is why I am here. So we can agree to disagree on this point. For you not going to change my mind on this one.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Sure it has something to do with it. In Chapter 3 of the letter to the Colossians, Paul continues on in verse 1 by using a conditional phrase to connect everything you're referring to back to the previous portions I have referred to. And this grammatical connection joins these seemingly independent flows of ideas......together.

You are saying that is what the passage is saying, but I don't see the exact words in that passage being highlighted to prove your point here. Anyone can just throw out a set of verses and then say they mean what they want them to mean. But if the actual verses do not say what they are saying it means, then they are just inserting their own belief into the text.

Y'know, starting out with pejorative language as you're doing here isn't really called for, BH! I'm not "skating around."

Do you think my use of a book on exegesis here, such as A Handbook of New Testament Exegesis by Craig L. Blomberg, is unacceptable? Or is Craig L. Blomberg not Christian enough for you?

Unfortunately, you keep bringing in the notion of sexual sin into this discussion. I think that to do so is an equivocation.

Well, throwing a book around on Exegesis does not prove that you are correct in any way, either. Any person can write a book on what they think Exegesis means to them, but it does not mean they are properly interpreting God's Word and or believing God's Word plainly. He may be one of those types of Christians who ignores what their Bible says in the English or the KJB and he just looks to the original languages (From an interpretive slant on his own biased beliefs that he prefers). Sure, he may be right on interpreting some passages, but this may not always be the case. I don't know. Not every Christian agrees on the point of Exegesis. The Bible is not understood by reading Bible commentaries or Christian books. We are taught by the Anointing and we do not have any need for any man to teach us (See: 1 John 2:27). We compare Scripture with Scripture to gain the truth of what God's Word says.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You are saying that is what the passage is saying, but I don't see the exact words in that passage being highlighted to prove your point here. Anyone can just throw out a set of verses and then say they mean what they want them to mean. But if the actual verses do not say what they are saying it means, then they are just inserting their own belief into the text.



Well, throwing a book around on Exegesis does not prove that you are correct in any way, either. Any person can write a book on what they think Exegesis means to them, but it does not mean they does not mean they are properly interpreting God's Word and or believing God's Word plainly. He may be one of those types of Christians who ignores what their Bible says in the English or the KJB and he just looks to the original languages (From an interpretive slant on his own biased beliefs that he prefers).

You don't sound like you're even willing to engage and think about anything I'm saying, but you do seem to want to swat all of what I'm saying aside and insist that I fully ingest and acculturate to everything that you have to say.

If we're going to have a discussion, you're going to have to allow it to be a two way street, BH.

 

[Isilwen]

there is no explanation given by my opponents on this topic.

I have better things to do than placate you.

I am working today. Last night was right before I was getting ready to retire for the night. Wanted to finish doing some modding of Skyrim, so my attention was elsewhere and not on your demands. Yesterday was my first day off all week. It will be like this every two weeks for a year while my supervisor and his girlfriend are in paramedic school. Will be busy all week long working except for one day. That will be my day to rest and play some video games.

As you can see, my life doesn't revolve around replying to you. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a patient to pick up and a PCR to start.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You don't sound like you're even willing to engage and think about anything I'm saying, but you do seem to want to swat all of what I'm saying aside and insist that I fully ingest and acculturate to everything that you have to say.

If we're going to have a discussion, you're going to have to allow it to be a two way street, BH.

You are not really engaging with the actual passage in what it says in Colossians 2 that you quoted. You just thrown down the verse and gave your thoughts on the verse that does not even line up with what it says. What does Colossians 3:2 even mean to you? How does that work in your Christian life? How does it not extend to how I read that verse by your quoting of the passage of Colossians 2? What specific words in that passage defends you? You have not quoted the exact words so I am just going to assume that this passage does not defend you. You are simply throwing verses around in the hope that it defends you when it really doesn't. That's how I am taking your approach so far unless you prove it with the exact words in the Bible that defends what you are saying here.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You are not really engaging with the actual passage in what it says in Colossians 2 that you quoted. You just thrown down the verse and gave your thoughts on the verse that does not even line up with what it says. What does Colossians 3:2 even mean to you? How does that work in your Christian life? How does it not extend to how I read that verse by your quoting of the passage of Colossians 2? What specific words in that passage defends you? You have not quoted the exact words so I am just going to assume that this passage does not defend you. You are simply throwing verses around in the hope that it defends you when it really doesn't. That's how I am taking your approach so far unless you prove it with the exact words in the Bible that defends what you are saying here.

You don't just cite and quote a verse and assume that it "speaks for itself." Singular verses torn from the Bible typically don't.

Moreover, you don't seem to want to allow me to explain anything and I'm only going to attempt an explanation one step at a time, not in some wholesale, 10,000 word post that no one will read.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You don't just cite and quote a verse and assume that it "speaks for itself." Singular verses torn from the Bible typcallly don't.

Moreover, you don't seem to want to allow me to explain anything and I'm only going to attempt an explanation one step at a time, not in some wholesale, 10,000 word post that no one will read.

You don't have to provide a 10,000 word commentary. I am looking for you to prove your point by HIGHLIGHTING the exact words in Colossians 2 that defends your viewpoint in what you said so far (Note: You can bold the words, or underline them, etc.). Words in that passage should say the same thing you said, but I simply do not see that at all. Also, how does Colossians 3:2 apply to your life? You don't have to write a book on the topic. You can give us a quick 2-3 word sentence summarizing how that verse applies to your life. Does your summary line up with what the verse actually says?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You don't have to provide a 10,000 word commentary. I am looking for you to prove your point by HIGHLIGHTING the exact words in Colossians 2 that defends your viewpoint in what you said so far (Note: You can bold the words, or underline them, etc.). Words in that passage should say the same thing you said, but I simply do not see that at all. Also, how does Colossians 3:2 apply to your life? You don't have to write a book on the topic. You can give us a quick 2-3 word sentence summarizing how that verse applies to your life.

Ok then. As I mentioned above a few posts back, if we look at verse 1 in chapter 3, we find Paul saying:

If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. (NKJV)
​

The 'If then' indicates that the previous thoughts which Paul was discussing up to that point connect to those that then follow afterward in chapter 3; thus the commands in chapter 3 are posed in contraposition to those problems stated in Chapter 2.

So, seeking what is 'above where Christ sits' is what we're to do rather than looking to legalistic measures by which we think we're being "more holy" (e.g. imposing rules of "do not touch, do not taste, do not handle").

Instead of rules, we're to look to Christ and do our best to alleviate ourselves of actual participation in sins.

One additional sin that Paul doesn't mention here is the failure to handle the Word of God so as to avoid tearing it apart from its varous contexts.

With that said, I'm still in essential agreement with you that we should be wary of various media and do our best to be discerning about what the world through its media creations tries to advance into our minds and behaviors. I agree that some ideals given by the World do work against the Christian faith and in our awareness of these non-Christian ideals, we should be most cautious. But on the other hand, not everything the world produces is fraught through and through with lies. Even pagans can sometimes get some things right.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Ok then. As I mentioned above a few posts back, if we look at verse 1 in chapter 3, we find Paul saying:

If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. (NKJV)
​

The 'If then' indicates that the previous thoughts which Paul was discussing up to that point connect to those that then follow afterward in chapter 3; thus the commands in chapter 3 are posed in contraposition to those problems stated in Chapter 2.

So, seeking what is 'above where Christ sits' is what we're to do rather than looking to legalistic measures by which we think we're being "more holy" (e.g. imposing rules of "do not touch, do not taste, do not handle").

Instead of rules, we're to look to Christ and do our best to alleviate ourselves of actual participation in sins.

One additional sin that Paul doesn't mention here is the failure to handle the Word of God so as to avoid tearing it apart from its varous contexts.

With that said, I'm still in essential agreement with you that we should be wary of various media and do our best to be discerning about what the world through its media creations tries to advance into our minds and behaviors. I agree that some ideals given by the World do work against the Christian faith and in our awareness of these non-Christian ideals, we should be most cautious. But on the other hand, not everything the world produces is fraught through and through with lies. Even pagans can sometimes get some things right.

The “do not touch, do not taste” was in reference to the Old Law that is no more. Colossians 2:16 says we are not to let others judge us if we don’t keep the Sabbaths, dietary laws, and holy days of the OT, etc.

This is not in reference to the commands given to us by Christ and His followers.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The “do not touch, do not taste” was in reference to the Old Law that is no more. Colossians 2:16 says we are not to let others judge us if we don’t keep the Sabbaths, dietary laws, and holy days of the OT, etc.

This is not in reference to the commands given to us by Christ and His followers.

Right. And I didn't say that it was in reference to the commands given to us by Christ and His followers.

However, I disagree with you in how you reference sexual immorality and imply that the use of contemporary Playboy philosophy in various media perfectly parallel (somehow) something like the casual, occasional reading of a Hobbit book or a Dr. Strange comic-book.

A Hobbit novel isn't a XXX inappropriate content flick, so maybe let's not talk like they're one and the same, because they're not.

 

[MBM888]

Ok, nipping this in the bud now, because I've finally gotten back to what we were discussing in the first place after going around the world.

I can show how I have care for a person without indulging my personal life to them....

That's fine, and I completely understand. I'm not asking you to. You're more concerned about that than I am.

We were discussing magic in fiction. I don't remember your exact words, but you didn't seem to approve of people who play games or watch movies that contain fictional magic. That's fine. However, as the spouse of a gamer, I disagree with you. How would one spouse keep another from doing something their beloved enjoys, especially if the first one doesn't see anything wrong with it? And if it is wrong, how would they convince the other person of that? What's more, why would they, if the only person they know of who didn't approve is someone online that they don't know IRL?

None of the scriptures listed had anything to do with that kind of situation. It was a great deal of telling individuals what they should do (in your opinion), and not helping with the real conversation a spouse would have to have about that.

If someone hasn't been in a romantic relationship in a while, or ever, then it would make sense to me why that person would be more comfortable with a black-and-white view of marriage.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Right. And I didn't say that it was in reference to the commands given to us by Christ and His followers.

You mentioned how Colossians 2 is in reference to how it is generally wrong to approach the Bible from a legal or rule based perspective. Yet, Colossians 2:14-17 is clearly dealing with the Old Law. In addition, there are many commands given to us in the New Testament, and Jesus said that if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). So the problem is not approaching the Bible in seeking to obey God's commands (which goes against your words that suggest that we cannot approach God's Word from a legal standpoint). The Bible has many facets to it. It is a book of grace, but it is not at the expense of God's laws, either. Colossians 3:2 still means plainly what it says. You have not still yet explained how my normal reading of Colossians 3:2 is somehow undone by your quote of Colossians 2. No words in Colossians 2 undoes the plain and normal reading that I have taken from Colossians 3:2.

However, I disagree with you in how you reference sexual immorality and imply that the use of contemporary Playboy philosophy in various media perfectly parallel (somehow) something like the casual, occasional reading of a Hobbit book or a Dr. Strange comic-book.

A Hobbit novel isn't a XXX inappropriate content flick, so maybe let's not talk like they're one and the same, because they're not.

So witchcraft is less of a sin than say sexual immorality? God told the Israelites to stone those who practice witchcraft. In the OT, they were told not to suffer a witch to live. While God does not call NT believers to carry out justice by their own hands like He did in the OT, God has not changed His stance on the sin of witchcraft in it being a serious and horrible sin. Sorcery and witchcraft is even worse in my view than say sexual immorality because one is tapping into demonic powers to accomplish things and not God. This is what you fail to understand. All forms of magic... the concept of magic does not exist in a good way within our real life universe. To say that such a sin does not exist in a fictional or fantasy setting is pure deception. That would be like creating a novel or comic whereby sexual immorality was considered normal in such a ficitional setting and saying that there is a good form of sexual immorality that is okay. That is what you have to do with fantasy stories that promote witchcraft. In that universe, you have to say that such a thing is okay and is not condemned by God.

Please read Matthew 5:28-30. It basically says that you cannot fantasize about a woman and if you do, your whole body is in danger of hellfire. This is a mind sin. Jesus basically said that fantasizing (i.e. fantasy) about a woman is just as much of sin that condemns as the real act of adultery. So if committing real sorcery condemns a person, then surely fantasizing about sorcery could potentially condemn a person, as well (Based on Matthew 5:28-30). That is what you fail to understand, my friend. I mean, why is it a problem? Because God hates sin. To fantasize about something God hates and to say there is a good version of this sin in a fictional world (with no condemnation of that sin) is to promote that such a sin is okay.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Ok, nipping this in the bud now, because I've finally gotten back to what we were discussing in the first place after going around the world.



That's fine, and I completely understand. I'm not asking you to. You're more concerned about that than I am.

We were discussing magic in fiction. I don't remember your exact words, but you didn't seem to approve of people who play games or watch movies that contain fictional magic. That's fine. However, as the spouse of a gamer, I disagree with you. How would one spouse keep another from doing something their beloved enjoys, especially if the first one doesn't see anything wrong with it? And if it is wrong, how would they convince the other person of that? What's more, why would they, if the only person they know of who didn't approve is someone online that they don't know IRL?

None of the scriptures listed had anything to do with that kind of situation. It was a great deal of telling individuals what they should do (in your opinion), and not helping with the real conversation a spouse would have to have about that.

If someone hasn't been in a romantic relationship in a while, or ever, then it would make sense to me why that person would be more comfortable with a black-and-white view of marriage.

You need to address the verses I brought up so far in this thread. You need to also present your case for your view with the Bible. If your not going to do that, then it is time to move on. I am not interested in your opinion about you feel is right. I want the Word of God on this matter because it is the Bible that is the authority for all matters of faith and practice.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You mentioned how Colossians 2 is in reference to how it is generally wrong to approach the Bible from a legal or rule based perspective. Yet, Colossians 2:14-17 is clearly dealing with the Old Law. In addition, there are many commands given to us in the New Testament, and Jesus said that if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). So the problem is not approaching the Bible in seeking to obey God's commands (which goes against your words that suggest that we cannot approach God's Word from a legal standpoint). The Bible has many facets to it. It is a book of grace, but it is not at the expense of God's laws, either. Colossians 3:2 still means plainly what it says. You have not still yet explained how my normal reading of Colossians 3:2 is somehow undone by your quote of Colossians 2. No words in Colossians 2 undoes the plain and normal reading that I have taken from Colossians 3:2.

May I ask which books and/or references you use for doing solid exegesis of the New Testament? I need to know this before I move on in any further discussion with you.

Thank you, brother BH!

 

[MBM888]

You need to address the verses I brought up so far in this thread.

No, I don't, actually. I will, to the best of my ability, but need? No, no I do not. You want me to, but I don't need to.

Especially since so many other people have already discussed these things with you, and a great many of them are severely off-topic. (I generally agree with others who have replied to you here.)

You need to also present your case for your view with the Bible.

I already have. (I think it was in this thread. I can't remember.) In general, I go with the Apostle's Creed and the Great Commission, as understood by the Greatest Commandment.

I am not interested in your opinion about you feel is right. I want the Word of God on this matter because it is the Bible that is the authority for all matters of faith and practice.

You say that, but you're unwilling to pay attention to the heart of it. That's my frustration. "Love the Lord your God above all others, and love others as much as you love yourself." That's the one that I feel we understand very differently.

 

[MBM888]

The Bible says: What fellowship does light have with darkness?
Fellowshiping with those of this world is not how we reach the lost.
It's the Word of God that will in time convict them of their sins if they ever will come around to their senses one day in accepting the truth of God's Word. Romans 10:17 says faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God. Faith does not come by us getting to know them better or becoming friends.

This is where we vastly disagree. Even scripture disagrees with this point.

Jesus Himself, as well as His Disciples, went into people's homes who were labeled as sinners to eat with them, to fellowship with them, and to teach them. He healed the sick and fed the hungry if they asked, regardless of their sin status.

Matthew 9:11-13, ESV:

11 And when the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 12 But when he heard it, he said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 Go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”

In his first letter to the Corinthians, Paul makes an important distinction:

1 Corinthians 5:9-11, ESV

9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.

Faith does come from hearing...but what about after that? After the person accepts Christ? That's not the end of the journey; that's the beginning! That's why we are commissioned to fellowship with other believers, and strengthen our faith with them. (A whole slew of verses supporting this.)

It is written:

“He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.” (John 21:17).

Exactly. Feed them. And then Peter, Paul, and the rest spent the majority of their time left on earth going around and encouraging people in the church, as well as lovingly preaching the Gospel.

Ok, this is as far as we go on these. I know you quoted a great deal more, but again, none of this has anything to do with the original discussion. (I've made a separate topic for what I was looking for anyways, though, so I think this convo is at an end.)

Online ministry definitely has it's limitations. Once again, I agree with you that being careful with personal info online is important. That being said, being super-cagey also hurts a ministry, in my opinion. It's fine for intellectual conversation, but not for life-changing ministry.

And especially if you're going to tell married folks what they should do with their spouses, you need to be open to admitting whether you yourself are married, or have been, or are at least a licensed marriage counselor. (Though since there's a whole category for marrieds on this site, I can just go there if I truly have any problems.)

People are simple. We need reasons to trust someone before listening to what they have to say. That's just the way things are.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This is where we vastly disagree. Even scripture disagrees with this point.

Jesus Himself, as well as His Disciples, went into people's homes who were labeled as sinners to eat with them, to fellowship with them, and to teach them. He healed the sick and fed the hungry if they asked, regardless of their sin status.

Matthew 9:11-13, ESV:

11 And when the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 12 But when he heard it, he said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 Go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”

You quote a Modern Translation that defends your view that they are sinners, and that's it.

The King James Bible says in verse 13,

“But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” (Matthew 9:13).

Jesus was among them to evangelize them, and not to be buddy buddy them in their sins.

In his first letter to the Corinthians, Paul makes an important distinction:

1 Corinthians 5:9-11, ESV

9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.

Mark 6:11 says,
“And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.”

So the purpose of being among an unbeliever is to evangelize them. If they do not hear your Word, you are to shake the dust of your feet and move on to yet another house.

Faith does come from hearing...but what about after that?

Faith is not just a one time act. Faith is believing the entirety of all of the Holy Bible. It's not an overnight thing to just say I believe it without knowing what it says. We need to know what God's Word says in order to have faith in those words that God has given us. For a person may have faith in John 3:16, but if they did not study or read say the letter to the Ephesians, they would not really have faith in that book because they have no idea what it says. Sure, they may believe it is true, but they don't know the words. Faith is accepting the words of God into our heart like in the Parable of the Sower. The seed is the Word of God (Luke 8:11), and the sower is the Son of Man (Matthew 13:37).

For Hymenaeus and Philetus taught that the resurrection is past already and thus as a result, they have overthrown the faith of some by this false teaching.

“And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.” (2 Timothy 2:17-18).

After the person accepts Christ? That's not the end of the journey; that's the beginning! That's why we are commissioned to fellowship with other believers, and strengthen our faith with them. (A whole slew of verses supporting this.)

I am not against fellowship with other like minded believers who truly are interested in following Jesus Christ vs. their wanting to follow the world and the lusts thereof.

Exactly. Feed them. And then Peter, Paul, and the rest spent the majority of their time left on earth going around and encouraging people in the church, as well as lovingly preaching the Gospel.

“And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.” (Mark 1:15).

“Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?” (Matthew 23:33).

“There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.” (Luke 3:1-3).

Ok, this is as far as we go on these. I know you quoted a great deal more, but again, none of this has anything to do with the original discussion. (I've made a separate topic for what I was looking for anyways, though, so I think this convo is at an end.)

Online ministry definitely has it's limitations. Once again, I agree with you that being careful with personal info online is important. That being said, being super-cagey also hurts a ministry, in my opinion. It's fine for intellectual conversation, but not for life-changing ministry.

And especially if you're going to tell married folks what they should do with their spouses, you need to be open to admitting whether you yourself are married, or have been, or are at least a licensed marriage counselor. (Though since there's a whole category for marrieds on this site, I can just go there if I truly have any problems.)

People are simple. We need reasons to trust someone before listening to what they have to say. That's just the way things are.

Once you open the flood gates of your personal life, then that is what one will do. It then takes importance over the point of sharing God's Word with people who are simply looking for the truth and not a biography. While I have shared personal things on rare occasion here on the forums, it has to be a God moment in order to do that. For I am nothing, and Christ is everything. The life that I want to live is not my own, but it is Christ living in me and shining a light unto others via by pointing them to His Holy Word that can transform their hearts and lives. The personal details of my life is really not going to do that. My personal life is shared for those in whom I trust. Social Media has not been good for people. Kids have sometimes been known to post on social media to each other while they are all sitting in the same room. They have not become unplugged from the internet. They live in a digital world, when they need to take a step outside and play with kids and build real relationships in person.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

May I ask which books and/or references you use for doing solid exegesis of the New Testament? I need to know this before I move on in any further discussion with you.

Thank you, brother BH!

I believe there are certain...

Things that are needed in order for a person to understand His Word:

#1. A person must be born again both by the Spirit (receive a new heart by the Spirit), and by water (Note: I believe being "born by water" is accepting that there is a perfect Word of God, and that it was Scripture by which helped to save you with God's Spirit and that the Holy Bible alone is the only words of God for believers today. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine and instruction in righteousness so that the man of God may be perfect unto all good works - 2 Timothy 3:16-17; And Proverbs 30:5 says, "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.").

#2. We must ask God for the understanding on His Word (i.e. The "Anointing" teaches us so that we do not ultimately need any man to teach us - 1 John 2:27).

#3. We must study to show ourselves approved unto God (2 Timothy 2:15) (Note: I believe number 2, and number 3 is buying the milk (the Word) without price as mentioned in Isaiah 55:1; Others think the Word or the milk must come with a price like going to a Bible school or something; Yet 1 Corinthians 2:13 says "we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.").

#4. We must accept the plainness of the words of what God's Word says. Just read it, and believe it. Habakkuk 2:2 says, "And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it."; Many today do not just read and believe their Bible plainly and they think that their Bible sometimes says something different because they think they are Biblical Hebrew and Greek experts (When in reality they are not). Sometimes a person may not like what a verse says so then they throw down the “original languages card” to try and explain away what that verse plainly says in the English. I believe God's Word preserved His Words for all generations and that they are pure words (Psalms 12:6-7). Why? Because that is what His Word says plainly.

#5. We must look at the whole counsel of God's Word (Acts of the Apostles 20:27). Look at the context and cross references to determine what a verse is saying. The Bereans were more noble because they compared the spoken Word of God with the written Word of God (Acts of the Apostles 7:10-11).

#6. We need to obey God's Word otherwise we will deceive our own selves (James 1:22). Paul said that if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). Meaning: If any man does not act in accordance with doing the things Jesus said, or in living holy by the instruction of God's Word, they are proud and they have no real knowledge. They just let the seed of the Word of God enter the heart, and let it get quickly snatched out of their heart as they hope the Pastor finishes his sermon faster so they can watch sports at home, and or they can go out drinking with their buddies. In other words, a person cannot justify sin on some level, and understand God's Word. They cannot think God's grace is a safety net to sin in some way.

#7. We cannot think unjust things about the character of GOD from popular teachers throughout popular candy coated Christianity. I believe if we think GOD is capable of doing unjust things, this can greatly hinder or prevent the Lord from giving us the understanding of His Word. No offense if anyone believes in the following things: But in my opinion an example of this would be Calvinism (Especially Unconditional Election), and Eternal Conscious Torment. God is good. God is fair, just, and holy in everything He does.

Side Note 1:

This does not mean we are not capable of changing our minds on certain doctrines or beliefs in our continued study of God's Word. I believe we sometimes need to mature in our study of God's Word.

Check out this CF thread here:

What theological things were you mistaken about in your growing knowledge of God's Word?

Side Note 2:

But what teachers have been helpful for me? I like some of Kerrigan Skelly's videos (i.e. Pinpoint Evangelism).

This particular video here was truly an eye opener for me, and he simply read through the Scriptures and explained things as he went along in an easy to understand way.

Granted, I have not watched all his videos and or believe everything he teaches. I just happened to resonate with a few of the videos he has posted.

 

[MBM888]

@Bible Highlighter , I'm not comfortable with our conversation any longer. It's clear that we're not going to agree about anything, and the conversation has run its course. I've said all I had to say, and I'm not interested in continuing debates here that have nothing to do with the original topic. (Bible versions, etc.) I wish you the best.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Bible Highlighter , I'm not comfortable with our conversation any longer. It's clear that we're not going to agree about anything, and the conversation has run its course. I've said all I had to say, and I'm not interested in continuing debates here that have nothing to do with the original topic. (Bible versions, etc.) I wish you the best.

May God bless you (even if we disagree strongly over the Scriptures).