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Who Reigns On Earth In The Millenial Kingdom?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Minister Monardo, Jul 29, 2020.

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  1. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    Whether it is the establishment of apostate Israel in Palestine, or the millennium (Y2K), Premils make up the dating as they go. When it doesn't work out they move the goalposts. It is contrary to Scripture, it undermines the sacred text and brings great confusion within the body. Premil has rightly lost a lot of credibility because of it. Date setting is wrong.
     
  2. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Jacks or better to open

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    I can answer those questions easily, but why didn't you answer mine?

    Yes the two witnesses are resurrected in the first resurrection. In fact they ascend into heaven in the cloud which is caused by the abomination that causes desolation.
    As for your first question. John is upon earth when he sees the thrones and those who are resurrected. We know John is upon earth because he states that he sees an angle coming down from heaven.We also know these same saints who are resurrected are still upon earth when they are surrounded by Gogs military at Jerusalem when fire comes down from heaven and destroys Gog.

    Revelation 20:9 KJV: And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

    Now how about you tell me if you believe the rest of the dead live not again till the 1000 years are completed?

    Revelation 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection.

    Do you believe the rest of the dead do not live again till the 1000 years are completed or do you believe this verse is false?

    How long will you avoid this question?
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
  3. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Since the 1,000 years of Revelation 20 is symbolic of the entire Church Age, and it ends at the future Second Coming of Christ, the answer would be...
    "Yes. The bodily resurrection of the dead is at the end of Revelation 20".

    The bodily resurrection, and judgment of the dead occurs at the appearing of Christ, as confirmed by Paul in 2 Timothy 4:1.
    This happens when the fire comes, and the judgment of the dead occurs at the end of Revelation 20.


    We know this because the time of the judgment of the dead is found in Revelation 11:18, which proves the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.


    .
     
  4. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Jacks or better to open

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    Revelation 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection.

    Sounds like you don't believe this verse also.

    So you believe the resurrected saints who are reigning with Christ from Jerusalem when Gog Invades Israel is destroyed and the age of that church ends at that time?Seeing that Christ and those saints are reining in Jerusalem when Gog invades, how do you say this church in Jerusalem ends when Christ comes when scripture shows they are reigning with Christ in Jerusalem when Gog invades?

    Revelation 20:9 KJV: And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

    What makes you think the age of this church ends when Gog invades Israel?
    Or do you believe this church is destroyed by God along with Gog and his military and that is how the age of this church at Jerusalem ends?
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
  5. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    You are not wrong that it is the end of many things. It is not the end of the earth. Revelation 20 clearly states that those who do not take the mark, which is a single one time event. The mark itself describing the definition of this 1000 years. The mark that can only come after the end of all things. All your points have to end. Except God gives Satan 3.5 years of unbridled reign. This 3.5 years is the only point in time the mark, being sent by God Himself will come into play. This is your 3.5 years of pure Calvinism. All those with the mark are not elect and cannot be found in the Lamb's book of life. The only ones who make it out alive will be those who get their head chopped off before the mark appears on their foreheads. So there is a 1000 years, and it is only for those who get their heads chopped off before the mark brands them into the lake of fire. It is also for the sheep and wheat gathered in the harvest at the end of time. The end of the church time, and the end of Adam's 6000 years of punishment. Some claim to know what this mark is. It is simply the expiration date on Adam's descendants. Punishment is over.

    Those in Satan's 3.5 years have past their expiration to work. Yet they will work on being their own savior, which is impossible. They are so deceived by Satan it does not matter. They worship Satan and in Solidarity continue to work because buying, selling and trading is all they know, or want to know. That is what Revelation 13 states. The punishment is carried out in Revelation 15 - 19. Revelation 20 is the physical resurrection for those just harvested in the last 6 years. As you clearly stated these people lived past the end of the church and Adam's punishment. They will rule with Christ, because it is the Lord's Day. That is what God does on a Lord's Day. He allows this earth to produce and multiple as God intended from the beginning.

    There was a Lord's Day for the first 1000 years. There will be a Lord's Day for the last 1000 years. Humans had 6000 years of punishment and could never lift themselves up out of their sinful fallen nature. But God planned that HE Himself would have 2 Lord's Days set aside for God alone. In the Law we were supposed to Remember the first Sabbath, the first Lord's Day. It was commanded that we work six days like God did, but we were not to forget that first Lord's Day. But we have forgotten, and now we get a chance to remember it once again.
     
  6. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    It is amazing how many time measurements are in God`s word regarding the tribulation and beyond.
     
  7. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    I have already answered your question, but I will try again.

    Because we have the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18, we know the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

    This is confirmed by Christ returning as a thief at Armageddon in Revelation 16:15-16.

    Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


    .
     
  8. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Jacks or better to open

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    Yes Christ comes at the time of Armegeddon, which is the war in which the beast is destroyed.
    The same beast that killed the saints who died for thier testimony of Christ and who did not worship the beast or receive his mark.
    They are resurrected when Christ comes and the live and reign with Christ inJerusalem. That's what revelation 20 says.

    Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

    So Christ ce and destroyed the beast and resurrected these saints and they live and reign with Christ in Jerusalem for 1000 years.
     
  9. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Based on 2 Timothy 4:1, and Revelation 11:15-18, the time of the judgment of the dead comes at the Second Coming of Christ.


    .
     
  10. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Jacks or better to open

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    Yes the second coming takes place during the war of Armegeddon when Christ destroys the beast who killed these saints. At the same time Christ kills the beast he resurrects the saints who the beast killed and they live and reign with Christ in Jerusalem.

    Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

    The rest of the dead live not again till the 1000 years are finished

    Revelation 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection.

    They reign with Christ on his throne in Jerusalem as he promised them.They overcame the beast.

    Revelation 3:21 To the one who overcomes, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.


    When the 1000 years are completed Gog and his military surround them at Jerusalem.And fire comes down from heaven from God and destroys Gog and his military.

    Revelation 20:9 And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. But fire came down from heaven and consumed them.


    This chapter is written beautifully.

    It corresponds with the book of Daniel which says the kingdom of the beast is consumed and then given to these saints forever.
    It also corresponds with the book of Ezekiel who spoke of the earth recovering from the war before Gog invades Israel.The land recovered from war is in reference to the war of Armegeddon when the saints are resurrected and receive this kingdom.

    Ezekiel 38:8 NIV: After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
  11. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are missing the New Testament teaching by Apostle Paul about the change at the twinkling of an eye to a "spiritual body" on the "last trump". The last trump means the 7th trumpet, and it shows all the kingdoms of this present world then become those of The Father and His Son Jesus Christ.

    Thus Christ's future 1,000 years reign of Rev.20 will not be with a world of flesh like our present world. The Isaiah 65:20 idea is an expression. The day when Jesus returns will be with a different world for man. He will bring His asleep saints back with Him, and all still alive on earth will be changed. This is hinted at in the Isaiah 25 Scripture where Apostle Paul got the idea of death being swallowed up in victory.
     
  12. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Jacks or better to open

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    Did Paul know everything God knows?
    I'm asking this because the revelation of Jesus Christ was given to Christ and delivered to us by John. Not Paul.
    It's possible Paul didn't know everything God knows and did not know everything contained in the revelation given to Christ by God.

    Revelation 1:1 This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants what must soon come to pass. He made it known by sending His angel to His servant John,

    Personally, I don't believe Paul knows everything God knows.If I'm correct, Paul may not have understood or even heard of many of the things in Revelation.

    1 Corinthians 13:12 KJV: For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
     
  13. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are not presenting a valid argument.

    What Apostle Paul taught about the end aligns with what ALL of God's Word teaches, which of course includes Christ's Revelation given through Apostle John.
     
  14. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Jacks or better to open

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    No, Paul's words don't completely align with revelation. I also don't believe Paul knew everything that God gave to Christ.

    1 Corinthians 13:12 KJV: For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

    Paul admitted he didn't know everything. He was human after all.
     
  15. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What Apostle Paul taught aligns perfectly... with the Book of Revelation.

    1 Cor 5:4-5
    4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

    5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    KJV

    That "day of the Lord Jesus" is about Christ's future 1,000 years reign of Revelation 20. In that future time, no one will still be in a flesh body. Even the wicked that are left will be in the resurrection type body but still subject to the "second death". Paul is showing to put away that brother who sinned with having intercourse with his mother so that his spirit, not his flesh, might be saved at Christ's future 1,000 years reign.

    2 Tim 1:16-18
    16 The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain:
    17 But, when he was in Rome, he sought me out very diligently, and found me.
    18 The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well.

    KJV

    The time of "mercy of the Lord in that day" is about Christ's future 1,000 years reign of Revelation 20.

    Apostle Paul also often quoted the Old Testament prophets when preaching Christ Jesus.

    Like I said, your argument isn't valid.
     
  16. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Jacks or better to open

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    And what did Paul say about Gog invading Isreal and encompassing the camp of the saints and God destroying Gog and his military at the end of that 1000 years?

    Revelation 20:7 When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison,
    Revelation 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.
    Revelation 20:9 And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. But fire came down from heaven and consumed them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
  17. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Yes. it is beautifully written, but it is not in chronological order with the rest of the Book of Revelation.

    We know this, because you keep trying to ignore the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18.



    .
     
  18. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Jacks or better to open

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    Revelation 20 is in chronological order from beginning of the chapter to the end.
    But it does come after revelation 11:18.
    The nations mentioned in Revelation 11:18 that is said to destroy the earth is the beast and its kingdom.
    The entire world is not destroyed but the beast and its kingdom is destroyed by fire. Then that kingdom is given to the saints of God forever.
    It will be interesting seeing what the world will be like after all the promised land is destroyed and given to whom it was promised, the seed of Abraham.

    Say goodbye to Islam.
     
  19. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Some brethren just can't keep their imaginations from affecting their understanding of God's Word. What that especially shows is their lack of Bible study...

    Isa 19:23-25
    23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.

    24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:


    25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt My people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel Mine inheritance.
    KJV


    That is God declaring His future Kingdom on earth, with His Highway running out of Egypt all the way up into Assyria. Egypt, Assyria, and Israel will EACH represent one third in His future Kingdom on earth.
     
  20. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Jacks or better to open

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    I think it's the eastern side of the Nile that is part of the promised land. At least 5 cities in Egypt are part of the kingdom.

    Isaiah 19:18 In that day five cities in the land of Egypt will speak the language of Canaan and swear allegiance to the LORD of Hosts. One of them will be called the City of the Sun.

    But yes, from the Nile to the euphrates river.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
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