Who made this a political issue and why?

[ArmenianJohn]

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Just to say that I disagree.

Not sure what all that was meant to say, but you have pictures of children who are coerced into doing things which doesn't prove that they don't avoid responsibilities. They do, it's just that they are relatively easily forced into obedience. And it doesn't mean they 100% of the time avoid responsibilities.

And the other pictures are of adults protesting. Protesting isn't "avoiding responsibilities"; if anything, it's usually taking responsibility to do something about a problem.

So, not sure what you intended with your pictures but they certainly don't disprove what the other poster was saying about children avoiding responsibilities. He's right, and we're seeing anti-maskers behaving like spoiled children.

 

[rturner76]

Absolutely! More than 10 or 20 years ago flat earthers and anti vaxers were unheard of. Today they are actually trying to shape public policy. They are also completely immune to any attempt to reason with them.

I'm going to coin the phrase "reason immunity" to diagnose this condition who's symptoms are believing what feels good, disregarding factual information, and never changing your mind.

Example: "your house is on fire, we'd better get out." "No, it's just a little warm in here, I don't ascribe to any conspiracy theories about burning buildings."

*End Scene

 

[rturner76]

we're seeing anti-maskers behaving like spoiled children.

This is the mentality I was talking about. I could see if there was credible information available that said there was a significant risk in using a mask in public. Now you have an argument to stand on instead of "I don't wanna do what the CDC, WHO, my physician, nor my Governor say because that would make me a follower." Going against "the system" just for the sake of not following the crowd.

Not following the crowd and using your own opinion to make choices about fashion, food, or residence decor etc. is a good thing, to be an individual. It's not good when you put people at risk just so you can feel like an individual. I don't follow the crowd either but the elderly and people with compromised health need to be protected and they can't all afford to stay home

 

[Albion]

This is the mentality I was talking about. I could see if there was credible information available that said there was a significant risk in using a mask in public. Now you have an argument to stand on instead of "I don't wanna do what the CDC, WHO, my physician, nor my Governor say because that would make me a follower."

I don't disagree with that, but you wanted to know why people don't choose to comply. One reason is that the governors who issued the orders do not follow the orders themselves.

That is a strong argument for concluding that the claim and the lockdown cannot be based on medical considerations but on something else.
.......................................................................

That said, what do you suppose that something else could be?

Here's a hint...almost all of the governors who have assumed dictatorial powers in this regard belong to one certain political party that is hoping to keep the economy in a tailspin until after the November election...and there is no doubt of that. If they really cared about the safety of the people and their own families, they would not so flagrantly ignore their own rules.

But because they do, their people have reason to suspect a ruse, and I do not at all think it's just conservatives who do.

 

[The Righterzpen]

Yes, objective truth has been replaced with my truth and your truth or 'alternative facts" "Alternative facts" don't exist unless you are denying the objective truth. An alternative to the truth is literally a lie (or a mistake).

I have never seen such a high percentage of Americans believe obvious lies and half-truths. Forget what 90% of the media says, forget what 90% of scientists say. Why do we need things like the scientific method when we can just go to the Trump team for all the answers about life.

You would think such "independent thinkers" would seek out science that has proven a fact, or given the most widely accepted projections about things like the number of new Covid cases or a weather model based on current data.

DIsmissing objective truth for a politician's lies does not seem like independent thinking to me

The real issue is that it's easier to believe what you want to believe than to actually search for the truth.

Proverbs 22:3

I don't disagree with that, but you wanted to know why people don't choose to comply. One reason is that the governors who issued the orders do not follow the orders themselves.

Most certainly a valid point and why people don't trust the governing bodies or the media. (Social distancing is mandatory unless you want to protest? - There is a real contradiction there.) Yet again, who takes the time to do the research to actually find the truth?

I've been following Covid since February (Yeah, I know some people follow movie stars - I follow a virus - LOL) And based on what I know of medical information and contagions - I make my choices. It's better to be prepared for the worst and it not come; than not to be prepared at all!

 

[rturner76]

I don't disagree with that, but you wanted to know why people don't choose to comply. One reason is that the governors who issued the orders do not follow the orders themselves.

That is a strong argument for concluding that the claim and the lockdown cannot be based on medical considerations but on something else.
.......................................................................

That said, what do you suppose that something else could be?

Here's a hint...almost all of the governors who have assumed dictatorial powers in this regard belong to one certain political party that is hoping to keep the economy in a tailspin until after the November election...and there is no doubt of that. If they really cared about the safety of the people and their own families, they would not so flagrantly ignore their own rules.

But because they do, their people have reason to suspect a ruse, and I do not at all think it's just conservatives who do.

Hmm, I hesitate to say the requirements should be the same for a governor as an everyday citizen. I admit I have no knowledge of which governors are violating the rules and under what circumstances. My "feeling" (not fact) is that in some circumstances the governor has a properly disinfected office/car and their security/staff gets tested regularly.

But like I say, I don't know where they are being seen unprepared. Another "feeling" is that there is some psychology involved with the decision. Meaning possibly projecting that the Governor is surrounded by a safe environment may on an unconscious level be reassuring that things are getting better.

Then again, the previous two paragraphs could be complete tripe. Even so for me, I can't go by a Governor's personal choice to be exposed unnecessarily. Anything but quarantine is taking some risk. I wasn't aware that the Governors were making masks mandatory in a partisan way. That would actually explain most of the reasons why this denial is happening. If you have a governor (or a President) that doesn't take the risk seriously why should you?

The interesting thing about that is the red states in the south have the highest number of total cases (per capita), deaths, and new cases. It shows that people are being led to the wrong choice rather than making an educated decision. As if listening to your local conservative politician who has absolutely no (credible) data to show that masks aren't working. Just a feeling or notion.

 

[hedrick]

FYI, here’s a list of restrictions by state. List of Coronavirus-Related Restrictions in Every State It’s not just Democratic governors. States with Democratic governors got hit first, but now it’s in other states.

 

[The Righterzpen]

Then again, the previous two paragraphs could be complete tripe. Even so for me, I can't go by a Governor's personal choice to be exposed unnecessarily. Anything but quarantine is taking some risk. I wasn't aware that the Governors were making masks mandatory in a partisan way. That would actually explain most of the reasons why this denial is happening. If you have a governor (or a President) that doesn't take the risk seriously why should you?

The interesting thing about that is the red states in the south have the highest number of total cases (per capita), deaths, and new cases. It shows that people are being led to the wrong choice rather than making an educated decision. As if listening to your local conservative politician who has absolutely no (credible) data to show that masks aren't working. Just a feeling or notion.

Yes, and here is why that as a responsible citizen you HAVE to do your own research. Better to find out for yourself than to take someone else at their word when you don't know if they are being truthful or not.

Both sides of the politic fence here in the US have their own agendas. And in this case, it is just as important that people are able to go to work as that they are protected from this virus. All the nations of the world right now are "doing the Covid dance" so to speak.

Because in the end your #1 goal is to keep your hospital systems functioning. If your medical infrastructure crashes because of too many pandemic patients, then there is a whole domino effect of issues that produces a chain of bad outcomes. And that affects everything; including your nation's economy.

 

[Albion]

I admit I have no knowledge of which governors are violating the rules and under what circumstances. My "feeling" (not fact) is that in some circumstances the governor has a properly disinfected office/car and their security/staff gets tested regularly.

I think I assumed that you've seen some of the news coverage of these events already. No, we are not referring to any "properly disinfected car, etc." Instead we are dealing with them being out in public, arm in arm with unmasked protesters, at political rallies, and elsewhere.

All of this is after they've threatened ordinary citizens and gone on and on about the necessity if we want to contain Covid-19. They're hypocrites, which in turn makes any sensible person conclude that the purpose for the lockdowns is something other than what's claimed by the leaders.

 

[rturner76]

I think I assumed that you've seen some of the news coverage of these events already. No, we are not referring to any "properly disinfected car, etc." Instead we are dealing with them being out in public, arm in arm with unmasked protesters, at political rallies, and elsewhere.

All of this is after they've threatened ordinary citizens and gone on and on about the necessity if we want to contain Covid-19. They're hypocrites, which in turn makes any sensible person conclude that the purpose for the lockdowns is something other than what's claimed by the leaders.

I don't watch a lot of news or track headlines much. I mostly search for news outlets for information I want to know about. That way I don't feel like I'm being spoon-fed so much crapola. Big issues end up being posted about everywhere so I track some things like that over different news outlets to try and get the whole picture.

But yes, under the circumstances you described, governors are trying to score points on both sides. Satisfying one group by requiring masks in public and playing to the others by supporting their protests of mandatory mask-wearing. You know I would not be 100% against businesses being given the choice if they require masks or not if they post their stance on the front door. Something like "mask required" or "mask optional" and people can make their own choice who they will do business with.

The downside would be the possible strain on local medical resources if there is a spike due to infected employees exposing a massive number of people (like McDonald's or public schools). I man the right infected person in the right location can expose thousands of people over just a couple of days.

Thank you. Between you and someone else, I believe I understand the circumstances of this backlash against requiring masks in public buildings. I will continue to wear mine until this thing has been brought under some level of control.

 

[Albion]

Thank you. Between you and someone else, I believe I understand the circumstances of this backlash against requiring masks in public buildings. I will continue to wear mine until this thing has been brought under some level of control.

I think you and I approach this in about the same way. I wear my mask, if only to be respectful of other people. I am not sure if it will protect me at all, but it probably does some good for other people.

But in my latest posts here, my point was only to give one answer to the question about why people might object. They have reason to doubt the rationale that was laid on them by these governors since the governors don't abide by their own rules.

So that's one explanation I thought worth mentioning, but there certainly are others too.

 

[rturner76]

But in my latest posts here, my point was only to give one answer to the question about why people might object. They have reason to doubt the rationale that was laid on them by these governors since the governors don't abide by their own rules.

That is probably the most rational notion I have heard about not masking. Doing it just to not follow the crowd I think is less relevant to the issue than a hypocritical politician's instructions who has no credibility when it comes to following their own rules.

That does make it a political issue for some people where I thought that there was no place for politics when it comes to health and safety. Our politicians made it political. It saddens me to see so much hypocrisy from the people in whom we have placed so much trust but it's been like that since the Greeks and probably before that!

Politicians must appear to be honorable while they do the ugliest things behind closed doors to get elected or re-elected seems even worse. 2 years of work and 2 years of campaigning for re-election so 1/2 the work gets done.

 

[iluvatar5150]

This story is a couple months old, but I just came across it now:
Nebraska governor threatens to withhold coronavirus relief funds from counties that require masks
Governor Pete Ricketts tells local Nebraska officials they can't require face masks if they want federal coronavirus-relief funding - CNNPolitics
Gov: Nebraska would have sued to stop Omaha mask mandate
Ricketts tells local governments they won't get federal COVID-19 money if they require masks

How does anybody defend that?

 

[jgarden]

CORONAVIRUS - AUGUST 13, 2020

UNITED STATES
**********************************************
New Cases Daily - 55,364

Deaths Attributed to COVID-19 - 1,284


CANADA
********************************************
New Cases Daily - 390

Deaths Attributed to COVID-19 - 9


UNITED STATES vs CANADA COMPARISON
(with adjusted figures to allow for direct comparisons)
**************************************************************************************
New Cases Daily - America (55,364) vs Canada (390 X 8.7 = 3,493.0)

Deaths Attributed to COVID-19 - America (1,284) vs Canada (9 X 8.7 = 78.3)

Coronavirus Update (Live): 21,319,131 Cases and 762,159 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer
*********************************************************************************************************************************************
Given that the United States shares 5,250 miles of border with Canada and that both have the same limited medical toolkit when it comes to combating COVID-19, just how do the supporters of this President account for such a marked discrepancy - based on the facts as recent as yesterday?

 

[rturner76]

Statistics mean nothing to the average Trump supporter. In my experience, Trump seems to be the arbiter of truth, even when it's an alternative truth.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Every day online I am seeing more and more people supporting the idea that we don't need to use the required preventative measures put forward by each state to slow down the covid virus.

I am posting this in the American Politics forum because the other thing I noticed is the people who are "anti-mask" have virtually all on the conservative side of politics. So that begs the question, how is this an issue of politics? It seems to me it's an issue of health and safety.

Why are only conservatives taking this stance? Why would only this demographic take a stand against HELPING society slow this virus down by masking up? How does it fulfill conservative principles to ignore all of the nonpolitical medical community's recommendations about prevention?

Children avoid their responsibilities. Adults do what is required of them. Has that been your experience or just mine?

Im a conservative and I support wearing masks as well as every single conservative friend I can think of. I don’t know, maybe this is an area issue. Perhaps outside of metroplex areas.

 

[BNR32FAN]

CORONAVIRUS - AUGUST 13, 2020

UNITED STATES
**********************************************
New Cases Daily - 55,364

Deaths Attributed to COVID-19 - 1,284


CANADA
********************************************
New Cases Daily - 390

Deaths Attributed to COVID-19 - 9


UNITED STATES vs CANADA COMPARISON
(with adjusted figures to allow for direct comparisons)
**************************************************************************************
New Cases Daily - America (55,364) vs Canada (390 X 8.7 = 3,493.0)

Deaths Attributed to COVID-19 - America (1,284) vs Canada (9 X 8.7 = 78.3)

Coronavirus Update (Live): 21,319,131 Cases and 762,159 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer
*********************************************************************************************************************************************
Given that the United States shares 5,250 miles of border with Canada and that both have the same limited medical toolkit when it comes to combating COVID-19, just how do the supporters of this President account for such a marked discrepancy - based on the facts as recent as yesterday?

Your comparing a country of 37 million population with a country of 326 million population. Of course the numbers are going to be much higher in a population that is almost 10 times larger because of population density.

 

[rturner76]

Im a conservative and I support wearing masks as well as every single conservative friend I can think of. I don’t know, maybe this is an area issue. Perhaps outside of metroplex areas.

It could be, it could also be that the conservatives I have encountered online are an anomaly and the liberals who don't believe in wearing masks are just silent on the issue. I haven't seen any reliable polling data. I don't know that I believe what polls say anyway.

What I CAN say the people I have encountered on this particular site who are against mask wearing regulations have all been conservative. 25-40% of that group also believes that if a Democrat is elected this year, the antichrist will reveal himself and begin to rule the Earth under the Great Tribulation while conservative Christians are whisked off to heaven by Jesus. (Ok, I'm exaggerating the percentage of conservatives that have enlightened me with this information but I'm positive that at LEAST 5 have informed the forum of this upcoming calamity).

The same people also know for an indisputable fact that the entire universe as we know it was created in 6 days.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It could be, it could also be that the conservatives I have encountered online are an anomaly and the liberals who don't believe in wearing masks are just silent on the issue. I haven't seen any reliable polling data. I don't know that I believe what polls say anyway.

What I CAN say the people I have encountered on this particular site who are against mask wearing regulations have all been conservative. 25-40% of that group also believes that if a Democrat is elected this year, the antichrist will reveal himself and begin to rule the Earth under the Great Tribulation while conservative Christians are whisked off to heaven by Jesus. (Ok, I'm exaggerating the percentage of conservatives that have enlightened me with this information but I'm positive that at LEAST 5 have informed the forum of this upcoming calamity).

The same people also know for an indisputable fact that the entire universe as we know it was created in 6 days.

Well I certainly hope so I’m ready to go home any time now.

 

[Pommer]

Your comparing a country of 37 million population with a country of 326 million population. Of course the numbers are going to be much higher in a population that is almost 10 times larger because of population density.

That’s. What. His post was exactly about, explaining how, even after correcting for population differences, the USA’s COVID19 cases/deaths far exceed what we’d see if Canada’s population was 370 million.

But see what you wanna see, I guess.