Who is the 6th King?

[TribulationSigns]

What God says about the heads, through the angel, is in the text. And the text says 7 "kings" in Revelation 17:10, which are associated the place where the woman sit featuring 7 mountains.

Sorry. No. Heads are not men. Mountains are not men. kings are not men. These all signify KINGDOM which number 7 means the totality of this kingdom! That is it!

Rome, Roman Empire, Julio-Claudians, the people who destroyed the temp and city.

Nope. The physical temple and city of Jerusalem being destroyed by Roman Titus was not in prophecy. Besides, the temple was NOT holy when it occurred because Christ has already declared it desolate AND that the veil within the temple was already rent the moment Christ died.

Rather the destruction of the temple and the city that Christ talked about, is the FALL of OLD TESTAMENT CONGREGATION as a representative of God's Kingdom on earth the moment the Jews (people of the prince) cut off their Messiah the Prince. This was also when Christ cast out Satan and his messengers of the congregation of Israel (Kingdom of Heaven). The stones that no longer upon other stones signify the professed PEOPLE of the congregation no longer represented God's Kingdom.

That is why Jesus warned that they (the Jews) will destory the temple and in three days Christ will rebuild it. Of course, He was not talking about the literal temple, but his own congregation!

The person as the Antichrist, differently, is associated as being the King of Israel.

You will not witness one supernatural man called "thee" antichrist. Guaranteed!

 

[Douggg]

There was messianic age here on earth THROUGH the CHURCH, expanding God's kingdom. Where we, Elect, were no longer fight God with our sword, but beat it into plowshares to serve God by planting Gospel into the world and reap people into the Kingdom of God. This is what its about.

In the messianic age ,a child will be able to put it's hand in the hole of a snake and not be bite. The wolf will live with the lamb. Isaiah 11:6.

 

[Douggg]

Nope. The physical temple and city of Jerusalem being destroyed by Roman Titus was not in prophecy. Besides, the temple was NOT holy when it occurred because Christ has already declared it desolate AND that the veil within the temple was already rent the moment Christ died.

If it weren't Holy then why was the veil in it ripped down the middle ? That act didn't make it unholy.

Holy means set apart for God. That will be the temple's intended purpose of why the Jews will rebuild the Temple, which the Antichrist will go into and sit. It is unlikely to be a final version of what they want to rebuild because of the compressed time involved. More likely an interim bare bones version of the temple will be built to get the temple sacrifices going as soon as possible. The size of the tent tabernacle of the Holy room and the Most Holy room, were each about 15 ft square each.

On the other hand, if a new temple is built next to the dome of the Rock, it could be a couple of years in the making of a fairly large structure.... before the 7 years even start. I don't know of what the chances of that happen are though.

Nope. The physical temple and city of Jerusalem being destroyed by Roman Titus was not in prophecy.

I don't have a problem with Titus not be any particular person referred to in Daniel 9:26 or 9:27. I don't think the destruction of the city and temple - has anything to do with Titus being the prince who shall come. But the fourth kingdom does.

 

[Douggg]

You will not witness one supernatural man called "thee" antichrist. Guaranteed!

The person in the Antichrist role does nothing supernatural. So I agree.

What the Jews are expecting of their mashiach... (from the Judaism101.org website). The person who becomes the Antichrist is going to seem to meet their expectations.

"The mashiach will be a great political leader [which the leader of the EU would be, TS] descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as "mashiach ben David" (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being."

 

[Douggg]

kings are not men

Kings are not men?

 

[shilohsfoal]

That's actually kind of cool. As I've suggested, I don't have a strong belief in any particular interpretation of Revelation, mainly because there are just too many of them. But that one kind of made me go, "Hmmmmm...."

If you looked in that direction,you might find alot of things that make you go Hmmm.
2000 years ago the king of Israel rode into jerusalem on the foal of an ass.

God has not appointed another to reign over Israel. You look in that direction and you will find the beast.

Everyone in Israel will recieve a mark.Most will recieve this mark by the king they have chosen.
Revelation 13:16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,
A remnant will recieve this mark by the king that has chosen them.
Ezekiel 9:4 and said to him, "Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it."

Look at what happens to those who do not recieve this mark.
Ezekiel 9:6 Slaughter the old men, the young men and women, the mothers and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary." So they began with the old men who were in front of the temple.

 

[Willie T]

Revelation 17:9-11
This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

In Romans 17, John describes prostitute sitting on a beast. The beast has 7 heads and 10 horns.

The angel defines the 7 heads as seven hills with which the woman sits on. These 7 heads are also defined as 7 kings: 5 who have fallen, and 1 who is, and 1 yet to come.

Who is this 6th king that existed during the time of John?

Nero was the Caesar (king) in charge during the writing of that letter.
v9-10: The angel turns to speak of the Dragon’s incarnation in the Beast from the Sea. Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. The “seven mountains” identify the Beast as Rome, famous for its “seven hills”; but these also correspond to the line of the Caesars, for they are seven kings; five have fallen: The first five Caesars were Julius, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, and Claudius. One is: Nero, the sixth Caesar, was on the throne as St. John was writing the Revelation. The other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while: Galba, the seventh Caesar, reigned for less than seven months.

 

[VexingWitness]

I think you're right about the 7 kingdoms being ages. I recall a verse about there being more ages that have passed than are to come. I believe it's in one of the prophets, in the Old Testament.

 

[thesunisout]

Revelation 17:9-11
This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

In Romans 17, John describes prostitute sitting on a beast. The beast has 7 heads and 10 horns.

The angel defines the 7 heads as seven hills with which the woman sits on. These 7 heads are also defined as 7 kings: 5 who have fallen, and 1 who is, and 1 yet to come.

Who is this 6th king that existed during the time of John?

The hard part in discussing these things is getting past the radical differences people have in end time theology. I will pray that God reveals this to you.

 

[VexingWitness]

I often wonder how much it really matters, to me. If I never come to understand it in my lifetime, It won't bother me. My desire is for my daily walk with God. The future can sort itself out. The world is in good hands.

 

[VexingWitness]

And doesn't 2nd Maccabees say that the Ark of the Covenant was taken away and hidden by Jeremiah? No Ark, no real temple. In my opinion.

 

[TribulationSigns]

In the messianic age ,a child will be able to put it's hand in the hole of a snake and not be bite. The wolf will live with the lamb. Isaiah 11:6.

[Staff edit].

But, of course, this is difficult for those indoctrinated into the idea that Isaiah 2 is some future fulfillment where Lambs and Wolves frolic around together in heaven, nevertheless, it is true. The lamb is unafraid of the wolf not because the wolf becomes a herbivore in heaven, but because the Lamb and wolf are synonyms in God's Word for His Servants and those who would devour them. The wolf cannot hurt the lamb because as God declared, "they will not hurt nor destroy in My Holy Mountain." It is because there in this kingdom of Christ is the peace and safety of Israel. Not in strong walls and a great military, only in Christ Jesus.

Luke chapter 10 verses 19 and 20 give us a similar illustration of this same principle of how with the coming of Christ's Kingdom they cannot be hurt by the enemies of God. The Lord sends out 'seventy' (a spiritually significant number) disciples with the gospel to witness in twos (signifying truthful witness) with this information and instruction.

Luke 10:19

• "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you."

Is the Lord giving His servants a power to go around the countryside and be immune to being hurt by enemies that are literal snakes and scorpions? No, not at all! The serpent and Scorpion signify and represent the power of Satan, just as the wolf does. If you walk through the desert, will physical/literal snakes and scorpions clear a path for you and not hurt you because you are a servant of God? Not at all, and this is not what Christ is teaching here. Being bitten by a snake is not the force of the enemy that Christ gives us power over. The power of the enemy Jesus speaks here is the power of that Scorpion from the pit and that old Serpent Satan. Those who are spiritually serpents and scorpions (those of Satan) are the ones who God is teaching cannot harm us. [Staff edit]. The truth is, God has given us safety from the antichrist spirit Satan, who desires to deceive, seduce and devour us.

1st Peter 3:12-13

• ""For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
• And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?"

The answer to this rhetorical question is that there is no one who can hurt or destroy you when you are a follower of Christ. So when we ask, what does the Lamb not being afraid of the Wolf in the Lord's holy mountain mean, it means the servant of God cannot be hurt or deceived by the wolf, nor the wolves in sheep's clothing that are among the lambs. It's not really that difficult to discern because Christ used this same vernacular with us very plainly during His ministry.

Matthew 10:16

• "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."

There is the answer to the relevant question concerning the mountain of the Lord, and also the passages that follow verses 2 and 3. Christ didn't send us out among wolves to be hurt, He assures that they will not hurt nor destroy us as we abide in His Holy Mountain. Again, not because the wolf has a new nature, but because we are sealed, secured in Christ and cannot be spiritually hurt (deceived) by Satan or his minions and their poison, the false doctrines. The kingdom reign and peace prophesied in Isaiah is the peace of Christ, and the cessation of the sword of warfare, turned into another job of cultivating the Lord's plantings, is by the New Spirit of Christ within us as we are reconciled with God as I have explained before.

 

[TribulationSigns]

If it weren't Holy then why was the veil in it ripped down the middle ? That act didn't make it unholy.

Wow. Don't you understand the purpose and meaning of the veil in the temple? And why did God Christ rent it from the top, not the bottom as if it was man's doing?

 

[TribulationSigns]

"The mashiach will be a great political leader [which the leader of the EU would be, TS] descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5).

Stop with antichrist nonsense, please.

Again, the little horn represents power, but not long, only for a little, and the man of sin "is" the man of lawlessness through whom Satan rules. So while they are intimately connected in that the Antichrist spirit Satan is given that power to rule the Gentiles a short time, they are not literally the same picture. The little horn is illustrating Satan's power to rule a little season, and the man of sin or lawlessness is illustrating through whom he rules. It will be through sinful Man (or the man of sin).

Daniel 7:8

• "I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things."

In this particular little horn, God references the eyes (Luke 11:34) of man in this power because the power of Satan to rule will come by man speaking great things that deceive. This is the false prophets and christs that comes with false teachings against God's people in God's congregation! Where is the inconsistency? The man of sin is not any man in particular, but the man of lawlessness or sin in general. Anyone with a spirit of disobedience or lawlessness. The lawlessness and sin is the same. Even as David also described the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputed righteousness without works (Romans 4:6), so the man of unrighteousness is the man accursed. As the Apostle Paul was the man of Righteousness with the Spirit of God in him, while Judas was the Man of Sin (unrighteousness) with the spirit of Antichrist in him. One the son of the free woman and one the son of the bond woman. One the son inheriting the land of promise and one the son inheriting perdition or desolation. One of Christ and one of Antichrist.

2nd Thessalonians 2:3

• "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

The sinful man is revealed in the falling away or "apostasy" in the Church. Not one man, but many false prophets and Christs found in God's congregation. This great forsaking of God in the holy temple (church) is where the Antichrist sits to rule for a little season. So yes, I forcefully contended that Daniel’s little horn is the little power that Satan has to rule near the end of time, AND he rules through the man of sin or lawlessness. It is through his spirit the apostasy or forsaking comes! And the Antichrist is "anyone" who has the spirit of Antichrist. Period. And there are many Antichrists, not just one. Not one popular political leader. If we go looking for one man or one Church system to fulfill the qualification, we are looking in the wrong place, sir!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Kings are not men?

Let me clarify something here. The kings are not men you like to base on qualification like how nice he is, how influence he is, or how handsome he is. And he must be from Europe to fit your doctrine. This is not how we understand the kings here.

Let me explain here...

Revelation 17:9

• "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth."

Here is the interpretation based on the mind of Christ, the only wise mind. For example, interpretations allowing God's Word to interpret God's Word. That is wisdom. Not our private interpretation based on a flavor of the month gentleman qualified to be king or antichrist.

Listen, in Scripture, the mountains represent Kingdoms/Rules, and in this context, of this beast. Satan had already ruled for 5, then there was 1 where he was presently ruling (at the time of John's writing). For example, he "is not", and "yet is", because he was bound by Christ for His Church's sake!. Selah! And we read 1 was yet to come, which makes a total of 7 in all, signifying the completeness of time that Satan will rule. It is clear that the 10 kings didn't exist at the time of the writing, they arise in the later days, which I believe is today, just before the end of time. That is what it means in saying that the 10 kings of the Beast have no kingdom yet. That means the power of this beast to give them rule hadn't occurred. Get it? Okay, these kings are "men" ruling through the power of Satan. Not "ten men", but many false prophets and christs. No man lives 2000 years, but this spirit within them does. This spirit of Satan to rule in man in the fullness of this power, which the ten horns signify, cannot occur until a short period just before the Lord's Second Coming.

Revelation 17:10

• "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space."

The 10 kings arise as part of the final rule of Satan depicted in the image. They rule 1 hour (a short period) with this final manifestation of this Beast's power. [Staff edit].

Also seen in Revelation 20 of Satan being loosed a short period. Then Satan will be allowed to move these kings (false prophets and christs) be seated IN THE CHURCH (temple of God on this side of the Cross) and rule one hour (not literally but symbolically), which is this little season before God's judgment. This is what little horn signify! A little time of power (horn) when Satan is loosed (by God), he musters this army of false prophets and christs all over the world and GIVES THEM THIS POWER of Antichrist, unto judgment. God uses them to judge his unfaithful congreation all over the world, Gog and Magog! For God has always brought judgment on His people first.

Jeremiah 25:29

• "For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts."

Christians who think the Church can never be judged are not reading scriptures carefully! Or not seeing what they are reading. One or the other. They are blind, unable to see the judgment takes place. IN other words, they will not be able to "see" the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place (Church) for what it is! While the Elect, with a spirit of Christ, "can see" and flee accordingly to avoid being deceived by the false doctrines that comes out of them mouths of fasle prophets and christs.

[Staff edit].

As for the imagery symbols, the number 10 in scripture signifies the fullness of whatever is in view, the horns in scripture signify power, and that these horns are "kings" signify they rule. And so the 10 Horns/kings will be given full Power/to Rule in the Church to fulfill God's will against rebellion. But their power or influence and authority is FROM the Beast, not the Cherubim. They rule in the Churches by the spirit of Antichrist, not Christ. But ultimately we read that it is God who has sent them as judgment. As He has done to His congregation many times before.

Ezekiel 9:6

• "Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house."

Deja Vu! So it will be when the New Testment Congregation, the Church, is judged. And I am not talking about TRUE Church (Elect), but the corporate or external church (professed Christians) who are being judged by God. The professed Christians are the one who buy and sell the false doctrines of the beast in order to receive the mark (ownership) of the Dragon! Only the Elect with the mark of God's name spiritually written on their foreheads will be spared, but the rest of congregation without it shall be as Babylon and made desolate.

Selah!

 

[Douggg]

And the Antichrist is "anyone" who has the spirit of Antichrist. Period. And there are many Antichrists, not just one. Not one popular political leader. If we go looking for one man or one Church system to fulfill the qualification, we are looking in the wrong place, sir!

No, there is only one person to become the AntiChrist, just as their is one Jesus the true Christ. John likened them in his day who were departing the faith, to the coming Antichrist by saying that there were already many antichrists.

None of those John likened to coming Antichrist were ever anointed the King of Israel (instead of and against the rightful King of Israel - Jesus).

The person has to be also believed by the Jews to be descended from King David. And perhaps he will indeed be. Because in Isaiah 14:18-20, God kicks the person out of the grave in disdains for him because he destroys his land and his people, likening him to being an abominable branch. Jesus was the righteous branch.

 

[Douggg]

[Staff edit].

Listen, in Scripture, the mountains represent Kingdoms/Rules, and in this context, of this beast.

That is the same sort of rationale that SDA use to claim that 1260 days is 1260 years - because a day equals a year for Ezekiel laying on his side. In similitude, you find a place in the bible that suits your purpose and misapply it to other places in the bible. From there you jump off on some esoteric explanation that has no constraints of what you can come up with. I reject that method of interpretation completely.

 

[TribulationSigns]

No, there is only one person to become the AntiChrist, just as their is one Jesus the true Christ.

Okay, I think its time that we agree to disagree. My posts are here as a public record for anyone who read.

Good luck finding your "one" antichrist.

 

[Douggg]

Okay, I think its time that we agree to disagree. My posts are here as a public record for anyone who read.

No problem.

 

[TribulationSigns]

[Staff edit].

That is the same sort of rationale that SDA use to claim that 1260 days is 1260 years - because a day equals a year for Ezekiel laying on his side.

Huh? Of course, SDA is wrong. I never teach 1,260 days = 1,260 years. You are trying to label me with some groups so you will refuse to consider my testimony. Not smart.

From there you jump off on some esoteric explanation that has no constraints of what you can come up with. I reject that method of interpretation completely.

Okay, that is your prerogative. I leave all to the Holy Spirit to decide whether you will see the truth or not. I am only a witness to what Gospel says.