Who is the 6th King?

claninja

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Revelation 17:9-11
This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

In Romans 17, John describes prostitute sitting on a beast. The beast has 7 heads and 10 horns.

The angel defines the 7 heads as seven hills with which the woman sits on. These 7 heads are also defined as 7 kings: 5 who have fallen, and 1 who is, and 1 yet to come.

Who is this 6th king that existed during the time of John?
 

Theodoric

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Well, there is not one definitive answer to that.

In the "for what it's worth" category, I favor the interpretation of the kings as standing for seven world empires, the one existing at John's time being Roman, the one to come, well, still to come?
 
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Douggg

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Revelation 17:9-11
This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

In Romans 17, John describes prostitute sitting on a beast. The beast has 7 heads and 10 horns.

The angel defines the 7 heads as seven hills with which the woman sits on. These 7 heads are also defined as 7 kings: 5 who have fallen, and 1 who is, and 1 yet to come.

Who is this 6th king that existed during the time of John?

There is debate over whether it is Nero or Domitian - mainly because there is debate on when Revelation was given to John. I go with Nero, who was last of the Julio-Claudian dynasty - the sixth king (leader) of that clan.

The clan, the Caesar family, were in order....

Julius Caesar
Augustus Caesar (Octavian)
Tiberius
Caligula
Claudius
Nero

The end times person who becomes the little horn would be the 7th of that family clan. To do so, he would have to become leader over the EU - when it gets to a final stage of having ten leaders as the executive branch of it's government with one leader over them.
 
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claninja

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There is debate over whether it is Nero or Domitian - mainly because there is debate on when Revelation was given to John. I go with Nero, who was last of the Julio-Claudian dynasty - the sixth king (leader) of that clan.

This makes the most sense and I think I would agree with you.

Nero seems to be the likely candidate of the 6th king.

It just seems to get a little foggy after that: the 7th king and then the 8th, which is also the beast. Plus the 10 kings who have no kingdoms....just doesn’t add up nicely, you know?

The end times person who becomes the little horn would be the 7th of that family clan. To do so, he would have to become leader over the EU - when it gets to a final stage of having ten leaders as the executive branch of it's government with one leader over them.

I guess this confuses me a little more. Why would there be a couple thousand year gap in between the 6th (Nero) and the 7th?
 
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Theodoric

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There is debate over whether it is Nero or Domitian - mainly because there is debate on when Revelation was given to John. I go with Nero, who was last of the Julio-Claudian dynasty - the sixth king (leader) of that clan.

The clan, the Caesar family, were in order....

Julius Caesar
Augustus Caesar (Octavian)
Titus
Caligula
Claudius
Nero

The end times person who becomes the little horn would be the 7th of that family clan. To do so, he would have to become leader over the EU - when it gets to a final stage of having ten leaders as the executive branch of it's government with one leader over them.


Tiberius not Titus. Titus was Flavian, the family that took over after Nero's suicide.

A small point. Other than that, I'm not sure how you trace the seventh Julian Emperor through 2,000 years of history. And to make another small point, Julius was not, I believe, actually crowned emperor. The Julian emperors were only five.

<edit>

No, Nero was not Emperor during the time John wrote Revelation. He'd been dead about 30 years.
 
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Theodoric

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The seven world Empires would have been

Egypt
Assyria
Babylon
Persia
Greece
Rome

and that which is to come. I find this interpretation more logical than the seven Roman kings, but I'm not dogmatic about it.
 
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Theodoric

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There is something which complicates that interpretation, at least for me. Jerusalem has been held by a few other foreign powers since John's day, for example Islam during the middle ages and Britain in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

I'm not sure how that fits into prophecy.
 
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TribulationSigns

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This makes the most sense and I think I would agree with you.

Nero seems to be the likely candidate of the 6th king.

The 7 kings have NOTHING to do with man or a human kings.

Rev 17:9-10
[9] And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
[10] And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

God wanted us to pay attention closely with WISDOM. It obviously requires spiritual discernment, not making some guess work with world history, current events, or how awesome man is. No, this has nothing to do with human leaders or nations here!

The heads are biblical imagery that signifies "AUTHORITY" of the kingdom - Satan's spiritual kingdom. Nothing to do with particular man or physical kingdom. The number 7 signifies the completeness or "totality" of whatever is in view. Thus the totality of this rule or authority lasts for 7. And since 5 of these 7 were placed BEFORE the Cross, and two come after, the chronology is clear. They are also pictured in Revelation as seven mountains, which "again" reiterates or confirms that it signifies THEIR REIGN or RULE. Because mountains used in the apocalyptic language of Scripture symbolizes KINGDOM or RULES. So we have a certain Biblical fact which has to be considered in this interpretation. First, when the text was written, 5 of these authorities or rules of this beast had already ruled and had fallen when they were cast out of the congregation of Israel (Old Testament congregation). The 5th is the last, which fell when Christ dealt Satan a deathblow at the Cross. This is the ONE HEAD, the authority of Satan, that was wounded unto death. This is why Christ restrained Satan's power and authority so that he could build His Church.

Rev 13:2-3
[2] And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
[3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

One of his heads, the 5th one, was wounded to Death by Christ when He went to the Cross. This was predicted by David when he wrote a Messianic Psalm:

Psa 68:20-21
[20] He that is our God is the God of salvation; and unto GOD the Lord belong the issues from death.
[21] But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.

David detailed Christ's defeat of Satan and His freeing the captivity in the New Covenant Dispensation:

Jer 31:23
[23] Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; As yet they shall use this speech in the land of Judah and in the cities thereof, when I shall bring again their captivity; The LORD bless thee, O habitation of justice, and mountain of holiness.

Or again:

Rev 13:1
[1] And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Rev 13:3
[3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

This is the SAME BEAST with seven heads and ten horns as we see in Revelation 17. This head wounded is Satan's AUTHORITY (to deceive the nations) at the time of the fall of Old Testament Congregation of Israel along with the death of their Messiah the Prince, Jesus Christ (Dan 9:26). Christ dealt Satan's kingdom a deathblow, and that was his 5th head falling. Satan's authority to deceive the nations was crippled, as Satan was chained and bound (restrained) by Christ for 1,000 symbolic years - the whole Church age.

That was the last of the 5 heads fallen.

Now the 6th head was present at the time of John was writing because though Satan was defeated by Christ, he still goes about in the world as a roaring lion, working through unsaved people. That is the kingdom that is. And the one head or king that was yet to come is when the head is HEALED. That is when Satan having been bound at the Cross, is loosed NOW to rule once again. Why, because the purpose of the building of God's kingdom through the church has fulfilled their purpose to seal all people God wanted to seal has been sealed. THEN Satan is loosened from the bottomless pit as the 7th head, or authority, which will introduce the great tribulation in the future (which I believe is right now) that lasts for a SHORT SPACE.

Rev 17:10
[10] And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

The "short space" is the SAME as Revelation chapter 20 reveals that Satan must be loosed for a "little season." That little season is the short space of this last king's rule. If we want to know what these kings are, I believe that a careful study the Scripture will show that they (these heads) were PART of the beast that has been around since before the Cross and represents his periods of AUTHORITY over man. This is what I believe on the basis of interpreting Scripture by Scripture, based on biblical history, not world history, which the heads are not something we can identify with physical empires, nations, or human kings.

The Preterists and Premillennialists (and their cousins) are busy looking for famous or popular like Nero, Dominion, Gorbachev, or Trump thinking they are the one God talked about. NO! They totally misunderstood what God actually talked about here!
 
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Theodoric

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Or, there's what Tribulationsigns said. And who would argue with that?

Why I'm an amillenialist, exhibits A through F. What I truly believe is, Revelation will become more clear to the generation that needs to know these things. Until that time, you'll have arguments such as, "Nero is the sixth king", "No, only if Revelation was written prior to 68 A.D."

In other words, things that don't matter.
 
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I guess this confuses me a little more. Why would there be a couple thousand year gap in between the 6th (Nero) and the 7th?

Let stop for a moment and read what Douggg wrote:

The end times person who becomes the little horn would be the 7th of that family clan. To do so, he would have to become leader over the EU - when it gets to a final stage of having ten leaders as the executive branch of it's government with one leader over them.

What?! What Douggg was trying to do with his private interpretation is to connect the heads, the horns, the mountains, and the little horn with men, assume we need to figure out who will be human leaders in the future (or in the past), based on WORLD HISTORY. This is a no-no. It is a wrong way of interpretation. This is not what God talked about. God does not need us to figure out which men based on history or current event fulfill God's prophecies. BECAUSE God has already defined the horns in His Holy Word which we must search it out FIRST! The Scripture has defined the horns as POWER! Not man! Period! God was not talking about "end time person" to show up after ten world leaders at all!

The beast is a body of believers who serves Satan, a spirit. The number ten signifies fullness of whatever is in view. And don't forget the horn signifies power. So after Satan/beast being loosened from bottomless pit, that will be when the kingdom having a fullness of power in the time of the end after Two Witnesses has finished their 1,260 symbolic days of testimony to bring Gospel to the world, Revelation 11:7, AFTER THIS, the SAME BEAST, Satan, will emerge as the 8th King but is of the same 7th Himself which SPECIFICALLY shows that he will have short space of power (little horn) to rule, but guess where? New Testament Cngregation of Israel, the Church which is the temple and holy place on this side of the Cross! This is HOW and WHEN he is "REVEALED" to us, Elect. He is revealed THROUGH the false prophets and Christs who are coming after HIS working.

2Th 2:3-4
[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
[4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2Th 2:8-10
[8] And then shall that Wicked [8th king/Little Horn] be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
[9] Even him [individiuals of the false prophets and christs], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

[Staff edit].

Mat 24:15
[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand )
 
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shilohsfoal

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The seven world Empires would have been

Egypt
Assyria
Babylon
Persia
Greece
Rome

and that which is to come. I find this interpretation more logical than the seven Roman kings, but I'm not dogmatic about it.

All these have one thing in common,Israel.
There was yet one more world empire to come in which "Israel"was gathered under.During the British mandate of Palestine,and then Great Britain was no more.
The beast is of the seven.
 
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Theodoric

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All these have one thing in common,Israel.
There was yet one more world empire to come in which "Israel"was gathered under.During the British mandate of Palestine,and then Great Britain was no more.
The beast is of the seven.

That's actually kind of cool. As I've suggested, I don't have a strong belief in any particular interpretation of Revelation, mainly because there are just too many of them. But that one kind of made me go, "Hmmmmm...."
 
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claninja

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The seven world Empires would have been

Egypt
Assyria
Babylon
Persia
Greece
Rome

and that which is to come. I find this interpretation more logical than the seven Roman kings, but I'm not dogmatic about it.

I tried looking at this view as well, but the problem that I keep running into is daniel 2 and 7.

God promised, through a vision given to Nebuchadnezzar and Daniel, that He would set up an everlasting kingdom during the time of the 4th kingdom (Rome)

Daniel 2:44 “In the days of those kings (4th kingdom) the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever

Daniel 7:27 ‘Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.’
_________________________________________________________________________

I believe the kingdom promised in Daniel is the same Kingdom that Jesus talked about:

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Luke 17:20-21 When asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God will not come with observable signs. Nor will people say, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘There it is.’ For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

Luke 19:12 So He said, “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to lay claim to his kingship and then return.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world; if it were, My servants would fight to prevent My arrest by the Jews. But now, My kingdom is not of this realm.”
___________________________________________________________________________

I believe when Jesus died, resurrected, and ascended to the Father, He claimed his kingdom and fulfilled Daniel 7:13-14. This would have occurred during the 4th empire (Rome).

I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man,
and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. And to him was given 1) dominion
and 2.) glory and a 3.) kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.

1.) Ephesians 1:20 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.

2.) Luke 24:26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?”

3.) Luke 19:26 So He said, “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to lay claim to his kingship and then return. Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
________________________________________________________________________________

Jesus now sits at the right hand of God with all authority over heaven and earth. The heavens are his and the earth is his. His kingdom consists of all things created by him and stretches through his created universe.

And we are his kingdom of priests, serving him through the sacrifice of our lips (praises) and service to the least of these.

1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.
Revelation 1:6 who has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father

So whether we are on this earth (which is his) or in heaven (which is his) we are citizens of the kingdom of heaven.


 
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claninja

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There is something which complicates that interpretation, at least for me. Jerusalem has been held by a few other foreign powers since John's day, for example Islam during the middle ages and Britain in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

I'm not sure how that fits into prophecy.


I guess I would look at Israel by covenants:

Old covenant Israel (specifically Jerusalem) was trampled by Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome.
The old covenant's end began with the 1st coming of Christ and ended with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

Once the old covenant ended, physical earthly Jerusalem no longer mattered. So whether earthly physical Jerusalem is trampled by Islam or Britain or any country after the the old covenant ended doesn't really matter because we now come to the true Jerusalem which is Heavenly:

Galatians 4:24-31
These things serve as illustrations, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery: This is Hagar. Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present-day Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. For it is written: “Rejoice, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have never travailed;
because more are the children of the desolate woman, than of her who has a husband.”b Now you,c brothers, like Isaac, are children of the promise. 29At that time, however, the son born by the flesh persecuted the son born by the Spirit. It is the same now. But what does the Scripture say? “Expel the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”d Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.
 
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God promised, through a vision given to Nebuchadnezzar and Daniel, that He would set up an everlasting kingdom during the time of the 4th kingdom (Rome)

Why did you believe the 4th Kingdom need to be Roman Empire? What do the toes with a mixture of iron and clay represent? And who do you believe the first three kings were?
 
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Riberra

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Rev 17:10
[10] And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

The "short space" is the SAME as Revelation chapter 20 reveals that Satan must be loosed for a "little season."
The SHORT SPACE refer to the 42 months reign of the Beast Revelation 13:3-5 who shall ascend out of the Bottomless pit mentioned in Revelation 17:8 that the whole Earth shall wonder .....Angel Abaddon Revelation 9:11

While the little season when Satan will be released will happen 1,000 years later
Revelation 20:1-3
1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and cast him into the abyss, and shut [it], and sealed [it] over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be loosed for a little time.
 
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claninja

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Why did you believe the 4th Kingdom need to be Roman Empire?

Jesus died, rose again, and ascended to heaven during the Roman Empire. He was the nobleman that received his kingdom while Old covenant Israel was under Roman rule. The Old covenant ended while Israel was under roman rule. The rock came during the 4th empire.

What do the toes with a mixture of iron and clay represent?

A kingdom that is partly strong and partly brittle

Daniel 2:42
As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle.

And who do you believe the first three kings were?

Babylon was the 1st kingdom:

Daniel 2:38 You (babylon) are that head of gold.

Persian was the 2nd Kingdom:

Daniel 2:39 After you (babylon), another kingdom will arise, inferior to yours.
2 Chronicles 36:20 He carried into exile to Babylon the remnant, who escaped from the sword, and they became servants to him and his successors until the kingdom of Persia came to power.

Greece was the 3rd Kingdom:

Daniel 2:39 Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over the whole earth.
Daniel 8:20-21 The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between its eyes is the first king

Rome was the 4th Kingdom:

Daniel 2:40 Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom,
 
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The SHORT SPACE refer to the 42 months reign of the Beast Revelation 13:3-5 who shall ascend out of the Bottomless pit mentioned in Revelation 17:8 that the whole Earth shall wonder .....Angel Abaddon Revelation 9:11

While the little season when Satan will be released will happen 1,000 years later
Revelation 20:1-3
1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and cast him into the abyss, and shut [it], and sealed [it] over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be loosed for a little time.

Actually, both are speaking of the same event. The short space and little season refer to the same period. The dragon and the beast are the same because the beast is a body, Satan personified.
 
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Jesus died, rose again, and ascended to heaven during the Roman Empire. He was the nobleman that received his kingdom while Old covenant Israel was under Roman rule. The Old covenant ended while Israel was under roman rule. The rock came during the 4th empire.

I understand. But that is not what I meant. The question is why must you label the fourth king as Rome? Is it because you count the number of kingdoms after Babylon?

And you believe that the next two kingdoms were Persia and Greece. Okay, tell me how do you think these kingdoms were inferior to Babylon? Historically, these are actually stronger and larger than Babylon, do you realize that? Perhaps it was not really Persia and Greece God talked about, but rather the authority of Satan's spiritual kingdom?

As for final kingdom, not only I ask you to explain the legs of Iron, but also the feet and ten toes mixed with partly iron and partly potters' clay if you believe Jesus Christ established His Kingdom at that time? What do these really represent the moment Christ established His kingdom at His First Coming?

Babylon was the 1st kingdom:

Daniel 2:38 You (babylon) are that head of gold.

Okay, let focus on this first kingdom for now...

Why do you think Daniel interpreted King Nebuchadnezzar as "king of kings" who was given a kingdom, power, strength, and glory wheresoever the children of men dwells, beasts of the field, fowls of heaven, and made him ruler over them all?

Do you really think Daniel was talking about Nebuchadnezzar? Did he qualify? Or did Daniel talked about Satan, the spiritual ruler of that time?

Didn't Satan have a kingdom, (Matthew 12:25-26) which was given to him and become the ruler of them all that Adam and Eve lost through disobedience?

For example, when Satan took Jesus up into the mountain to tempt him, Satan said:

Mat 4:8-9
[8] Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
[9] And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

What do you think?
 
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