WHO IS BABYLON/HARLOT IN REVELATION?

[His student]

A

..........“Babylon the Great.” ......

As I currently interpolate the pictures given to us in the Book of Revelation - there are two Babylons in the last days.

The first is religious Babylon represented in it's final incarnation as the Roman Catholic Cult and those with whom it has committed adultery such as Islam and the other false religions of this world.

The second is economic Babylon represented in it's final incarnation as the United States of America.

The first will be destroyed by the Anti-Christ and his false prophet and their followers.

The second will likely be destroyed by financial ruin - possibly accompanied by atomic warfare.

I could be wrong. But that's the way I've seen these things for quite some time now.

 

[JerseyChristianSuperstar]

I always felt it was the Catholic Church.

 

[Josheb]

The Pope wears purple and scarlet

The Pope wasn't around in the first century. That idea would have been non-sensical to the first century readers.

 

[Revealing Times]

In Revelation 17:5, the Harlot appears as “Babylon the Great.”

She is repeatedly called “The Great City.”

We then encounter the phrase “the great city” in

Revelation 11:8 “And their dead bodies will lie in the street of THE GREAT CITY which is mystically called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.”

This is kinda sad, I read through the whole thread and not one person understand who the Harlot is. You make the mistake on "MANDATING" that a "GREAT CITY" everywhere its mentioned has to be The Harlot even though the Great City is only one of FOUR DESCRIPTORS, did you realize that ? In Rev. 17:18 the angel pointed John back to his VISION, which was only four verses long, from verse 3-6, and WHAT HE SAW !! He saw Mystery, {COMMA}, Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots AND Abominations of the whole Earth. So not one descriptor but four, you just choose to focus on one and run with it everywhere you see "GREAT CITY" and there were many great cities not one anyway.

A Harlot wore a Headband on her head to identify her to her prospective customers, to identify her to her clients. Likewise this Harlot has FOUR Descriptors to tell us who she is. Solve her NAME TAGS and we can figure out who she is, its really simple once you see what they mean.

Mystery, after Shem killed Nimrod they took these Mystery Religions underground, they are secret societies religions like the Masons etc. etc. plus they are false gods.

Babylon the Great is known for all of her False gods/religions.

The Mother of Harlots, Semiramis, Nimrods mother/wife, gave birth to these false religions.

Abominations of the Earth, God sees the Worship of ANY god but him as an Abomination. Now add all the name tags up and you have the identity of WHO the Harlot is.

The Harlot = ALL FALSE RELIGION of All Time.

The Harlot {False Religion} RIDES the [Gov] Beast. They were co-mingled for eons, every Beast Gov. had FALSE gods they served, thus the Harlot Rides the BEAST !!

Now it all fits, this way she can have the Blood of the Saints {Jews of Old} AND the Martyrs of Christ Jesus on her hands. All False Religion covers ALL Transgressions, no City can kill anyone, serving false gods can be the culprit of these deaths, the RCC wasn't even around until almost 400 AD, so it can't have ALL the blood on its hands. I have an old Thread explaining all this in detail BELOW.

Babylon, The Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast Explained

Those who think its a CITY are wrong, those who think its America are also wrong, those who think its the RCC or a Pope are wrong. It has to be TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES, the Harlot RIDES the Beast !!

In Rev. 17:16 the Kings in league with the Beast KILL OFF the Harlot, because now guess what, the Beast wants to be worshiped as the ONLY god !! There is now no place for Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism or any other god, thus they DESTROY the Harlot after being co-mingled for years and years. Islam being wiped out cover the majority if the 1/4 of all Mankind he kills off, or 2 Billion people, he also kills of the Remnant Church Saints and the Jews. The Kings {REMEMBER THIS} rejoice when the Harlot is burned, but in Rev. 18 when Babylon is burned they act very different, NOTICE THAT ? They CRY and LAMENT her demise, Babylon represents GOVERNMENT, and God uses the Beast and his Kings to judge the Harlot BUT......God Himself via the Seals, Trumpets and Vials judges Babylon.

Babylon = ALL FALSE Governance under Satan's Dark Kingdom on earth. Babylon the Head of Gold represents the Statue that is toppled when it is hit by the Rock {Jesus} in the feet !! Amen.

Babylon means confusion, who is more confused than men fighting against God at Armageddon ?

Rev. 16: 19 tells us who Babylon the Great is..........

19 And the great city was divided into three parts {Earthquake/Jesus lands on Mt. Zion}, and the cities of the nations fell {God defeats all the Nations at Armageddon}: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath {God calls those Nations He defeats Babylon the Great}.

So who did Jesus defeat ? Well the 6th Vial tells us....we have to know how to follow these leads.

Rev. 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

So Babylon the Great who God defeats = the Kings of the WHOLE WORLD !!

Babylon = Satan's Dark Kingdom on Earth. Satan told Jesus in Luke ch. 4 that all these kingdoms were his to do whatsoever he willed with !!

Babylon in Rev. 18 is the whole world getting destroyed by Gods Judgments. In verse 2 we see God says Babylon is Fallen and that it has become the Habitation of devils. Well that fits, Satan and his demons have been cast out of Heaven and Apollyon and his hordes of demons have been released from the bottomless pit via the First Woe. By the way, Apollyon is the Scarlet Colored Beast of Rev. 17, thus he has NO CROWNS at all, whereas the Beasts of Rev. 12 {7 CROWNS on 7 Heads} and Rev. 13 {10 CROWNS on 10 Horns} both have Crowns !!

In verse 4 we see God ask his people to come out of her lest she receive of Babylon {Worlds} plagues, and that is just God calling the Jews who repented to Flee Judea {see Matt. 24:15-17} and to flee unto Petra it seems.

Of course Babylon's Merchants are crying, the WHOLE WORLD {Babylon} is being destroyed by God's Judgments. The Seals kill 2 billion people, Satan is cast to earth, the Trumps burn ALL the grasses and 1/3 of the trees, 1/3 of the sea is turned to blood and 1/3 of the fish/shrimp die, 1/3 of the ships/planes/cars are destroyed, 1/3 of the fresh waters are poisoned, and the three Woes are up next, the 200 Million Angelic Army slays about 1.5 billion people and the 3rd Woe is ALL 7 Vials. So of course the Merchants are devastated by these events.

Verse 8 says her {Babylon/Worlds} Judgment is come in ONE DAY and then verse 10 says her Judgment is come in ONE HOUR and we know both = 42 Months. The Day of the Lord lasts 42 months and we see in Rev. 17:12 that the Kings rule for ONE HOUR {42 Months} with the Beast. So its the whole World that is getting Judged by the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments.

The Harlot RIDES the Beast...........until he kills her off, demands to be worshiped as the ONLY god, then God eventually Judges the Anti-Christ Beast by casting him and the False Prophet into hell.

 

[martymonster]

This is kinda sad, I read through the whole thread and not one person understand who the Harlot is. You make the mistake on "MANDATING" that a "GREAT CITY" everywhere its mentioned has to be The Harlot even though the Great City is only one of FOUR DESCRIPTORS, did you realize that ? In Rev. 17:18 the angel pointed John back to his VISION, which was only four verses long, from verse 3-6, and WHAT HE SAW !! He saw Mystery, {COMMA}, Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots AND Abominations of the whole Earth. So not one descriptor but four, you just choose to focus on one and run with it everywhere you see "GREAT CITY" and there were many great cities not one anyway.

A Harlot wore a Headband on her head to identify her to her prospective customers, to identify her to her clients. Likewise this Harlot has FOUR Descriptors to tell us who she is. Solve her NAME TAGS and we can figure out who she is, its really simple once you see what they mean.

Mystery, after Shem killed Nimrod they took these Mystery Religions underground, they are secret societies religions like the Masons etc. etc. plus they are false gods.

Babylon the Great is known for all of her False gods/religions.

The Mother of Harlots, Semiramis, Nimrods mother/wife, gave birth to these false religions.

Abominations of the Earth, God sees the Worship of ANY god but him as an Abomination. Now add all the name tags up and you have the identity of WHO the Harlot is.

The Harlot = ALL FALSE RELIGION of All Time.

The Harlot {False Religion} RIDES the [Gov] Beast. They were co-mingled for eons, every Beast Gov. had FALSE gods they served, thus the Harlot Rides the BEAST !!

Now it all fits, this way she can have the Blood of the Saints {Jews of Old} AND the Martyrs of Christ Jesus on her hands. All False Religion covers ALL Transgressions, no City can kill anyone, serving false gods can be the culprit of these deaths, the RCC wasn't even around until almost 400 AD, so it can't have ALL the blood on its hands. I have an old Thread explaining all this in detail BELOW.

Babylon, The Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast Explained

Those who think its a CITY are wrong, those who think its America are also wrong, those who think its the RCC or a Pope are wrong. It has to be TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES, the Harlot RIDES the Beast !!

In Rev. 17:16 the Kings in league with the Beast KILL OFF the Harlot, because now guess what, the Beast wants to be worshiped as the ONLY god !! There is now no place for Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism or any other god, thus they DESTROY the Harlot after being co-mingled for years and years. Islam being wiped out cover the majority if the 1/4 of all Mankind he kills off, or 2 Billion people, he also kills of the Remnant Church Saints and the Jews. The Kings {REMEMBER THIS} rejoice when the Harlot is burned, but in Rev. 18 when Babylon is burned they act very different, NOTICE THAT ? They CRY and LAMENT her demise, Babylon represents GOVERNMENT, and God uses the Beast and his Kings to judge the Harlot BUT......God Himself via the Seals, Trumpets and Vials judges Babylon.

Babylon = ALL FALSE Governance under Satan's Dark Kingdom on earth. Babylon the Head of Gold represents the Statue that is toppled when it is hit by the Rock {Jesus} in the feet !! Amen.

Babylon means confusion, who is more confused than men fighting against God at Armageddon ?

Rev. 16: 19 tells us who Babylon the Great is..........

19 And the great city was divided into three parts {Earthquake/Jesus lands on Mt. Zion}, and the cities of the nations fell {God defeats all the Nations at Armageddon}: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath {God calls those Nations He defeats Babylon the Great}.

So who did Jesus defeat ? Well the 6th Vial tells us....we have to know how to follow these leads.

Rev. 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

So Babylon the Great who God defeats = the Kings of the WHOLE WORLD !!

Babylon = Satan's Dark Kingdom on Earth. Satan told Jesus in Luke ch. 4 that all these kingdoms were his to do whatsoever he willed with !!

Babylon in Rev. 18 is the whole world getting destroyed by Gods Judgments. In verse 2 we see God says Babylon is Fallen and that it has become the Habitation of devils. Well that fits, Satan and his demons have been cast out of Heaven and Apollyon and his hordes of demons have been released from the bottomless pit via the First Woe. By the way, Apollyon is the Scarlet Colored Beast of Rev. 17, thus he has NO CROWNS at all, whereas the Beasts of Rev. 12 {7 CROWNS on 7 Heads} and Rev. 13 {10 CROWNS on 10 Horns} both have Crowns !!

In verse 4 we see God ask his people to come out of her lest she receive of Babylon {Worlds} plagues, and that is just God calling the Jews who repented to Flee Judea {see Matt. 24:15-17} and to flee unto Petra it seems.

Of course Babylon's Merchants are crying, the WHOLE WORLD {Babylon} is being destroyed by God's Judgments. The Seals kill 2 billion people, Satan is cast to earth, the Trumps burn ALL the grasses and 1/3 of the trees, 1/3 of the sea is turned to blood and 1/3 of the fish/shrimp die, 1/3 of the ships/planes/cars are destroyed, 1/3 of the fresh waters are poisoned, and the three Woes are up next, the 200 Million Angelic Army slays about 1.5 billion people and the 3rd Woe is ALL 7 Vials. So of course the Merchants are devastated by these events.

Verse 8 says her {Babylon/Worlds} Judgment is come in ONE DAY and then verse 10 says her Judgment is come in ONE HOUR and we know both = 42 Months. The Day of the Lord lasts 42 months and we see in Rev. 17:12 that the Kings rule for ONE HOUR {42 Months} with the Beast. So its the whole World that is getting Judged by the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments.

Babylon RIDES the Beast...........until he kills her off, demands to be worshiped as the ONLY god, then God eventually Judges the Anti-Christ Beast by casting him and the False Prophet into hell.

And how exactly do you figure, that the harlot is all false religion? Since when were any other people apart from christians, ever betrothed to Jesus Christ? I don't remember hearing of any other religions claiming Christ's name?

Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

This commandment is not about using the Lord's name as a cuss word, as most supposed it, but about those who take Christ's last name Christians) and yet go around committing spiritual fornication. That is why she is a harlot. A woman who plays the harlot, is not faithful to her husband, is she.

 

[Revealing Times]

And how exactly do you figure, that the harlot is all false religion? Since when were any other people apart from christians, ever betrothed to Jesus Christ? I don't remember hearing of any other religions claiming Christ's name?

Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

This commandment is not about using the Lord's name as a cuss word, as most supposed it, but about those who take Christ's last name Christians) and yet go around committing spiritual fornication. That is why she is a harlot. A woman who plays the harlot, is not faithful to her husband, is she.

Serving ANY god save God Almighty is Harlotry. God is a jealous God as He told Israel, he loves ALL his creation and wants none to perish. Any worship of any god but God is Harlotry.

I understand, saying Oh my God {without purpose} is in vain. God sees all creation has His creation, not just the Church. I follow the clues, not other men's traditions. I hate to disappoint people who follow Armstrong and his RCC ideas or Joel Richardson and his Islamic ideas, or the people who see the Harlot as Jerusalem, Babylon Proper, NYC, America or Rome, but its just not true.

The Harlot RIDES the Beast. Government and Religion.

 

[pasifika]

Throughout the Bible a pure “woman” is a symbol of God’s true church while a harlot represents a corrupt church. Hosea 1:2; Ezekiel 16; 2 Corinthians 11:2.

Not a city

Please let Revelation 17 tells us who the woman is.....
Revelation 17:18..." The woman you saw is the "great city" that rules over the kings of the earth...

 

[martymonster]

Serving ANY god save God Almighty is Harlotry. God is a jealous God as He told Israel, he loves ALL his creation and wants none to perish. Any worship of any god but God is Harlotry.

I understand, saying Oh my God {without purpose} is in vain. God sees all creation has His creation, not just the Church. I follow the clues, not other men's traditions. I hate to disappoint people who follow Armstrong and his RCC ideas or Joel Richardson and his Islamic ideas, or the people who see the Harlot as Jerusalem, Babylon Proper, NYC, America or Rome, but its just not true.

The Harlot RIDES the Beast. Government and Religion.

Who told you that?

 

[Daniel C]

The Pope wasn't around in the first century. That idea would have been non-sensical to the first century readers.

Peter was here and Catholics would say that Peter was the first Pope.

Revelation is a futuristic book although it doesn't say Babylon could be a present day church. The beast is already here but being restrained for future events.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Please let Revelation 17 tells us who the woman is.....
Revelation 17:18..." The woman you saw is the "great city" that rules over the kings of the earth...

What city does the other woman in rev represent?

Revelation 12:4
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Revelation 12:6
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12:13
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

"great city"
Revelation Identifies Babylon | Rome is Babylon

The word Vatican is derived from the words vatis, which means “diviner,” and can, which means “serpent.” Vatican City and St. Peter’s Basilica were built on the ancient pagan site called in Latin vaticanus mons, which means “hill of prophecy.”

Coins minted in Vatican City often bear the inscription CITTÁ DEL VATICANO, which means “City of Prophecy.” The Church of Rome thus applies the title of “City” to its structure. The full title of the Vatican State is Stato Delle Cittá Del Vaticano, which is the combination of church and state.

There is also a woman on the reverse side of the coin, and at her feet is her title, FIDES, which means faith. This woman is symbolic of the Roman Catholic Church, which claims power over all governments on Earth.

And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18).

Rome claims to control all governments on Earth. The Jesuit oath says this:

…by the virtue of the keys binding and loosing, given to his Holiness by my Saviour, Jesus Christ, he has power to depose heretical kings, princes, states, commonwealths and governments, all being illegal without his sacred confirmation, and they may be safely destroyed.i

The description of the woman of Revelation 17 fits all the aspects of Rome. We are told in Revelation 17:1 that she “sits on many waters” (NKJV). These waters represent the nations of the world:

And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues (Revelation 17:15).

The fallen Church, represented by the woman, must therefore be a universal Church. The word "catholic" actually means "universal." The Roman Catholic Church claims to be the universal or worldwide Church and, as we have seen, she claims to have authority over all nations.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

as further proof

In Defense of the Church: CHRISTIANS may become ONE -- SOON!
In Defense of the Church: CHRISTIANS may become ONE -- SOON!
Jul 11, 2015Pastor Warren, founder of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, spoke with members of the international press in St. Peter's Square, saying, "Protestants, as a people, have a long history of heresy. The time for reconciliation is now in order to ensure a full and dogmatic transition into the folds of the Church."

 

[Revealing Times]

Who told you that?

Read the bible, that is God's instruction book for us. The problem is men hear other men's ideas, then they incorporate them into their thoughts and get tunnel vision, like the RCC being the Harlot, even though that is impossible according to the clues, or they call the Harlot Jerusalem, even though that is not possible. Men's Traditions take people down rabbit holes.

Too many men try to say what something is without getting a word of knowledge from God. That's why we have 100's of ideas, God has ONE IDEA, not 100's on a subject. The book of Revelation is full of symbolism, one has to understand its symbolism and the CODES that are in the Old Testament also have to be dug out.

I mean it should be logical that God loves all mankind and that Jesus came to save all mankind, not just Israel and/or the Church which after all is vastly Gentile. Any person that serves any god save God is committing an Abomination according to God's own laws in Leviticus. Thou shalt have no other gods before me, it is an abomination.

The biggest problem I see is people read OTHER MEN'S IDEAS, then fall in line, and they then try to move heaven and earth to force their understanding to fit !! That's wrong headed.

Read the bible, let God lead you unto all truth, not men like Armstrong and his RCC ideas, or Joel Richardson and his Islam ideas, or those that try to say Jerusalem is the Harlot, Jerusalem can't kill people and will not be burned. Its Metaphoric, the Harlot that is judged by the 10 Kings is what ? WHAT MAKES SENSE ? Think a little !! What does the Beast do during the end times ? He mandates that ALL MEN worship him or die, thus what needs to be done away with ? Jerusalem ? The RCC ? or ALL RELIGIONS {thus by nature they are False Religions}. Read the very next verse and it tells us God placed it in their hearts to do this.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Jesus rules from Jerusalem, its not going to be burned. The RCC will lose all cred if the Pope is not Raptured, the Anti-Christ is never in league with the RCC or the Pope, the False Prophet is a Jewish High Priest, not a Pope. This always makes my SMH to be honest.

Jason was a High Priest Antiochus appointed, have you ever read about him ? Hes the TYPE False Prophet just like Antiochus was the TYPE Anti-Christ, he bribed Antiochus who then killed Jason's brother, a Pious High Priest named Onias III, and appointed Jason {real name Yeshua} who tried to Hellenize the Jews, which led to the Maccabean Revolt !! To Hellenize means he tried to get the Jews to turn to the Greek ways which means he tried to get them to serve the Greek gods. The coming False Prophet does the same does he not ? He places an IMAGE of the Beast in the Temple of God and MANDATES that all men worship him as god or die !! {Rev. 13}.

Hes not a Pope, hes a Jewish High Priest, thus he looks like a Lamb with two horns, but speaks like a Dragon.

 

[Josheb]

Peter was here and Catholics would say that Peter was the first Pope.

And they would be wrong to do so. Scripture tells us James was the first head of the apostolic council and Peter submitted himself and Paul to he and that council. The RC also acknowledges that fact.

And the comment is off-topic. The op-relevant facts of scripture are as I have stated and you are not engaging those facts.

Revelation is a futuristic book although it doesn't say Babylon could be a present day church. The beast is already here but being restrained for future events.

No, it is not a "futuristic book. The book itself quite plainly state the events described in that revelation would happen quickly because the time was near. The word "near" mean what it means and what it means is near. It is never used in scripture to mean anything but near. The book opens and closes with the same qualifier. One of the most basic of rules in sound exegesis is to first understand the text as it would have been understood by its author and its original readership. To say the book is futuristic, especially any futurism 20 centuries in the future renders the text meaningless for the first century Christian to whom it was written! Furthermore, there are events described in the book, such as the birth of Christ in chapter 12, were past not future events in the first century.

Look it up.


The harlot is Jerusalem and the Levitical priesthood. Jesus declared them dead in Matthew 23, told them their house was left to them desolate, and told them the long-awaited judgment they deserved would come upon that generation.

And it did.


It was future for the first century reader of Revelation but it is not futuristic for the 21st century reader. As a consequence there are timeless principles for all Christians of any error to learn, understand, and apply until such a time as Christ returns to conclude history.

 

[pasifika]

What city does the other woman in rev represent?

Revelation 12:4
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Revelation 12:6
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12:13
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

"great city"
Revelation Identifies Babylon | Rome is Babylon

The word Vatican is derived from the words vatis, which means “diviner,” and can, which means “serpent.” Vatican City and St. Peter’s Basilica were built on the ancient pagan site called in Latin vaticanus mons, which means “hill of prophecy.”

Coins minted in Vatican City often bear the inscription CITTÁ DEL VATICANO, which means “City of Prophecy.” The Church of Rome thus applies the title of “City” to its structure. The full title of the Vatican State is Stato Delle Cittá Del Vaticano, which is the combination of church and state.

There is also a woman on the reverse side of the coin, and at her feet is her title, FIDES, which means faith. This woman is symbolic of the Roman Catholic Church, which claims power over all governments on Earth.

And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18).

Rome claims to control all governments on Earth. The Jesuit oath says this:

…by the virtue of the keys binding and loosing, given to his Holiness by my Saviour, Jesus Christ, he has power to depose heretical kings, princes, states, commonwealths and governments, all being illegal without his sacred confirmation, and they may be safely destroyed.i

The description of the woman of Revelation 17 fits all the aspects of Rome. We are told in Revelation 17:1 that she “sits on many waters” (NKJV). These waters represent the nations of the world:

And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues (Revelation 17:15).

The fallen Church, represented by the woman, must therefore be a universal Church. The word "catholic" actually means "universal." The Roman Catholic Church claims to be the universal or worldwide Church and, as we have seen, she claims to have authority over all nations.

Hello, please read the description of the harlot in revelation 17...then see if fits the woman in revelation 12...Remember that the woman in revelation 12 gives birth to child which represent Jesus Christ so that cannot be Rome...the two woman are not the same but you have to find out which one is the woman in revelation 17, its in the bible..but we need wisdom from God to identify her....

 

[Daniel C]

And they would be wrong to do so. Scripture tells us James was the first head of the apostolic council and Peter submitted himself and Paul to he and that council. The RC also acknowledges that fact.

And the comment is off-topic. The op-relevant facts of scripture are as I have stated and you are not engaging those facts.

No, it is not a "futuristic book. The book itself quite plainly state the events described in that revelation would happen quickly because the time was near. The word "near" mean what it means and what it means is near. It is never used in scripture to mean anything but near. The book opens and closes with the same qualifier. One of the most basic of rules in sound exegesis is to first understand the text as it would have been understood by its author and its original readership. To say the book is futuristic, especially any futurism 20 centuries in the future renders the text meaningless for the first century Christian to whom it was written! Furthermore, there are events described in the book, such as the birth of Christ in chapter 12, were past not future events in the first century.

Look it up.


The harlot is Jerusalem and the Levitical priesthood. Jesus declared them dead in Matthew 23, told them their house was left to them desolate, and told them the long-awaited judgment they deserved would come upon that generation.

And it did.


It was future for the first century reader of Revelation but it is not futuristic for the 21st century reader. As a consequence there are timeless principles for all Christians of any error to learn, understand, and apply until such a time as Christ returns to conclude history.

I disagree it was written only to that generation based on one scripture that can be harmonized but believe what you want.

In scripture God designed the levitacal priests uniforms so to say they are unHoly is blasphemous. The Pope and his garments however are completely absent in scripture and an invention of the Catholic church.

 

[Josheb]

I disagree it was written only to that generation based on one scripture that can be harmonized but believe what you want.

I will believe what is stated in scripture. This is not about what I or you want to believe; it is about what scripture directs us to believe. So please don't assert red herrings.

The position the book of Revelation is not based on "one scripture" and everyone, not just you and I, ought to pay attention to the fact of harmony you just acknowledged. So please don't assert straw men.

And additional fact of scripture is the mentions of "this generation" found throughout the gospels all refer to the generation of Jesus' immediate audience. Look it up. There's not just "one scripture;" there's a pile of them! Look them up. Accept the facts of scripture as scripture itself prsents them as written plainly stated and plainly read.

The facts of Revelation are as I have stated them:

> The Levitical priesthood wore purple and scarlet. That is what the first century reader would have understood.

> Jerusalem, like Rome, is built on seven hills/mountains.

> The book of Revelation contains more than 340 OT references in it, thereby evidencing its context is Jewish, not Roman, and most definitely not American.

> At the time Revelation was written the chief persecutor of the saints, the sacred holy witnesses of Jesus was first Jerusalem and the Levitical priesthood, not Rome. That did change, as evidenced by John's being exiled on Patmos, but that was not the conditions of the first century Christian reader of John's revelation.

> The book opens and closes with the qualifying "time stamps" of "quickly" and "near." While the "quickly" may be interpretable, the "near" is not. This is especially so if and when we examine how scripture uses the term; it never uses "near" to mean "2000 or more years in the future."

> The book of Revelation contains content that is about the past, the present, and the future of the first century Christian reader.​

Now there is a lot more I could write relevant of the identity of the harlot of Revelation but so far I cannot get you to engage what evidence has already been posted, especially not with appeals to various fallacies.

In scripture God designed the [Levitical] priests uniforms so to say they are unHoly is blasphemous

Off-topic. Noted as such and ignored accordingly.


Whatever the colors were "designed for" they were in fact the colors of the Levitical priesthood at the time the book of Revelation was written and that is what the first century follower of Christ would have understood. There was no institutional Roman Catholic Church at the time and Christian leaders did not wear special robes. All Christians were consider royal priests in God's holy nation according to 1 Peter. 2:9. First century followers of Christ would have understood that as well.

The Pope and his garments however are completely absent in scripture and an invention of the Catholic church.

Then why bring them up?

Why not instantly disregard the teaching of any Christian who asserts something "completely absent from scripture" into scripture?




Now, can you engage the op-relevant content I have posted in an op-relevant manner or not? If so then please do so. If not then please say so and I will change my expectations accordingly.

 

[zoidar]

And they would be wrong to do so. Scripture tells us James was the first head of the apostolic council and Peter submitted himself and Paul to he and that council. The RC also acknowledges that fact.

And the comment is off-topic. The op-relevant facts of scripture are as I have stated and you are not engaging those facts.

No, it is not a "futuristic book. The book itself quite plainly state the events described in that revelation would happen quickly because the time was near. The word "near" mean what it means and what it means is near. It is never used in scripture to mean anything but near. The book opens and closes with the same qualifier. One of the most basic of rules in sound exegesis is to first understand the text as it would have been understood by its author and its original readership. To say the book is futuristic, especially any futurism 20 centuries in the future renders the text meaningless for the first century Christian to whom it was written! Furthermore, there are events described in the book, such as the birth of Christ in chapter 12, were past not future events in the first century.

Look it up.


The harlot is Jerusalem and the Levitical priesthood. Jesus declared them dead in Matthew 23, told them their house was left to them desolate, and told them the long-awaited judgment they deserved would come upon that generation.

And it did.


It was future for the first century reader of Revelation but it is not futuristic for the 21st century reader. As a consequence there are timeless principles for all Christians of any error to learn, understand, and apply until such a time as Christ returns to conclude history.

I think you quoted someone else with my signature.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Hello, please read the description of the harlot in revelation 17...then see if fits the woman in revelation 12...Remember that the woman in revelation 12 gives birth to child which represent Jesus Christ so that cannot be Rome...the two woman are not the same but you have to find out which one is the woman in revelation 17, its in the bible..but we need wisdom from God to identify her....

I already identified both women as the true church and the harlot church if you have read my post completely which your post indicates you have not.

In the end it is all about worship not the Jews or Jerusalem.

Revelation 13:4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Revelation 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Hello, please read the description of the harlot in revelation 17...then see if fits the woman in revelation 12...Remember that the woman in revelation 12 gives birth to child which represent Jesus Christ so that cannot be Rome...the two woman are not the same but you have to find out which one is the woman in revelation 17, its in the bible..but we need wisdom from God to identify her....

still waiting for you to support you claim that a woman represents a physical city in prophecy.

What city does the other woman in rev represent?

 

[pasifika]

I already identified both women as the true church and the harlot church if you have read my post completely which your post indicates you have not.

In the end it is all about worship not the Jews or Jerusalem.

Revelation 13:4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Revelation 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Hello, I don't think worship is only refers to a "church"...someone can live there lives on the love of materials things like money, wealth, fame etc as someone who worship those things but it doesn't called a church....