WHO IS BABYLON/HARLOT IN REVELATION?

[d taylor]

It is Rome

Revelation 11:8 has nothing to do with Revelation 17

 

[pasifika]

still waiting for you to support you claim that a woman represents a physical city in prophecy.

What city does the other woman in rev represent?

Yes, revelation 18 gives what type of city ie, a city is superior in terms of beauty, splendor and luxury none other city that can compare to her...revelation 18:3,9,18...Probably the most beautiful city ever build in the history of mankind...A city who is centre in technology wares which traded to other countries for their riches eg, gold, silver, precious stones etc revelation 18:12-13..

A city built close to a coastline...

A modern city within the Babylonian empire territory...so she is the resurgence of the Old Babylonian in modern times....

So, the Old testament prophets prophesied about her try match info in Revelation to the old testament then you will get a clear understanding of who is the harlot in revelation....by the way Jesus also mentioned her to the people of those town who did not repented....Matthew, Luke....

 

[Revealing Times]

I will believe what is stated in scripture. This is not about what I or you want to believe; it is about what scripture directs us to believe. So please don't assert red herrings.

The position the book of Revelation is not based on "one scripture" and everyone, not just you and I, ought to pay attention to the fact of harmony you just acknowledged. So please don't assert straw men.

And additional fact of scripture is the mentions of "this generation" found throughout the gospels all refer to the generation of Jesus' immediate audience. Look it up. There's not just "one scripture;" there's a pile of them! Look them up. Accept the facts of scripture as scripture itself prsents them as written plainly stated and plainly read.

You miss what GENERATION is being pointed unto. For instance in Matt. 24, Jesus is pointing to the Generation that sees ALL THESE THINGS, and thus only the Generation that sees them all, INCLUDING the Sun and Moon going dark {during the 70th week troubles} can be THE GENERATION, which means its the Generation that is alive during the End Times Tribulation period. And the some people here will see me coming in my kingdom reference was about John, who SAW the Vision of Jesus returning, and of course Jesus went to offer the Sacrifice to the Father and then returned for 40 days. Its just a bad understanding, real bad, to claim the book of Revelation is not a future event.

The facts of Revelation are as I have stated them:

> The Levitical priesthood wore purple and scarlet. That is what the first century reader would have understood.

Now Google Scarlet and Purple like I have and do some in depth research. Its not about the RCC, nor about the Levitical Priests, you both get it wrong, because you both think you already have it figured out, and neither one of you are correct.

In my first post above I point to the truths, the Harlot {False Religions} RIDE the [Gov] Beasts.

Who wore Scarlet and Purple and WHY ? Well, Religious Orders AND the Royals wore these colors because they were EXCLUSIVE, and EXPENSIVE to create. It even sheds light on why, one comes from a small seed that needs to be crushed or it might have been from a small bug. Anyway, the point is, it was expensive to create these colors, so the Royals {Beasts} and the Religious Orders {False Religions} wore these colors, from the Levitical Priests of God to the RCC and many Religious Orders in between. Many, many Royals wore these colors also.....Pssstttt, its not about the RCC or the Levitical Priests, its about the Harlot {False Religions} who RIDE the [Gov] Beasts, which stands for Religious Orders {ALL} and Governments under Satan {See Luke ch. 4, Satan tells Jesus ALL the Kingdoms of the whole world are his to do as he wills with.}

This is what is called going down rabbit holes. So anyone that looks at the Scarlet and Purple colors and jumps to conclusions without studying it in full, can indeed come up with bad understandings.

> Jerusalem, like Rome, is built on seven hills/mountains.

Another conclusion that is just wrongheaded all because we have predetermined conclusions. There is NO SUCH THING as 7 Hills. A little logic would tell us this straight away. The 7 Headed Beast is about the 7 Mediterranean Sea Beasts, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome AND the coming Anti-Christ/MAN/Beast. So please explain how this means 7 Hills in ONE PLACE ? I doesn't nor can it mean that, I can tell you what it means. It explains how the LAST BEAST HEAD will be a MAN and not a Kingdom. All of the former Beasts were Kingdoms, passed from one man to another, the Last Beast will never pass his Kingdom on, thus God......GET THIS......REDUCES the Kingdoms to Kings who have FALLEN........Thus we get 7 Kings who ARISE {Mountains/Powers} and we also get 7 Kings who FALL. Only the Last King both ARISES and FALLS {Rev. 19:20 says he is cast into hell, Daniel 7:11 says the Beast is killed and cast into hell}, so he is not like any other Beasts, they were Kingdoms, but he is a MAN !! Thats the whole point, Rev. ch. 13 agrees, he is a MAN and his number is 666. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with 7 hills !!!!!!!

> The book opens and closes with the qualifying "time stamps" of "quickly" and "near." While the "quickly" may be interpretable, the "near" is not. This is especially so if and when we examine how scripture uses the term; it never uses "near" to mean "2000 or more years in the future."

When it says he comes soon or quickly, its referring to Jesus returning FAST or IN HASTE....Not soon as you suppose, the Greek word TACHOS is used, where we get tachometer from. The word EN is used also, that means a state of TIME.........So it means when the Father sends me, at a future point in time, I will come IN HASTE.

Get with the studying man.

 

[Josheb]

I think you quoted someone else with my signature.

If so then I regret doing so and ask your forgiveness. I'll endeavor to track that down and correct the error. Can you tell me in which post that error occurred?

PS.: I tracked that post down and have corrected the error. Thx for letting me know.

 

[Josheb]

The word Vatican is derived from the words vatis, which means “diviner,” and can, which means “serpent.” Vatican City and St. Peter’s Basilica were built on the ancient pagan site called in Latin vaticanus mons, which means “hill of prophecy.”

Coins minted in Vatican City often bear the inscription CITTÁ DEL VATICANO, which means “City of Prophecy.” The Church of Rome thus applies the title of “City” to its structure. The full title of the Vatican State is Stato Delle Cittá Del Vaticano, which is the combination of church and state.

There is also a woman on the reverse side of the coin, and at her feet is her title, FIDES, which means faith. This woman is symbolic of the Roman Catholic Church, which claims power over all governments on Earth.

How and why would any Christian in the first century understood that?

 

[Josheb]

You miss what GENERATION is being pointed unto. For instance in Matt. 24, Jesus is pointing to the Generation that sees ALL THESE THINGS, and thus only the Generation that sees them all...

Nope. Not only is that not what the text states but the conjugation of Matthew 24's "this generation" is near demonstrative. It cannot be made to mean "that generation."

And your argument does not change the fact "near" means near.


Be as critical of your sources as you are of my posts. They taught you wrong. Look it up.


Look it up.

 

[Josheb]

Now Google Scarlet and Purple....

I don't look to Google over scripture to interpret scripture.

It's informative that you do look to Google, though. Scripture first renders scripture, RT. What scripture states is purple and scarlet were worn by the Jewish priests. What scripture states is the future events of Revelation were near. What Revelation recounts is past, present-to-the-first-century, and future to the first century events were going to come quickly because the time was near. What scripture does with the word "near" is always use it in its ordinary definition; "near" means near.

That is what the scriptures state. That is not what I or some other Christian teacher made it say.


So are going to begin with scripture as written plainly read? Or are you going to rely on those who clearly do not begin with scripture as written and plainly read.


Note: If you are a Dispensational Premillennialist who adheres to the hermeneutic wherein prophesy is to be read literally then you are not practicing your own hermeneutic. "Near" literally means near.

Google it.

 

[Josheb]

Another conclusion that is just wrongheaded all because we have predetermined conclusions. There is NO SUCH THING as 7 Hills. A little logic would tell us this straight away. The 7 Headed Beast is about the 7 Mediterranean Sea Beasts, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome AND the coming Anti-Christ/MAN/Beast. So please explain how this means 7 Hills in ONE PLACE ? I doesn't nor can it mean that, I can tell you what it means. It explains how the LAST BEAST HEAD will be a MAN and not a Kingdom. All of the former Beasts were Kingdoms, passed from one man to another, the Last Beast will never pass his Kingdom on, thus God......GET THIS......REDUCES the Kingdoms to Kings who have FALLEN........Thus we get 7 Kings who ARISE {Mountains/Powers} and we also get 7 Kings who FALL. Only the Last King both ARISES and FALLS {Rev. 19:20 says he is cast into hell, Daniel 7:11 says the Beast is killed and cast into hell}, so he is not like any other Beasts, they were Kingdoms, but he is a MAN !! Thats the whole point, Rev. ch. 13 agrees, he is a MAN and his number is 666. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with 7 hills !!!!!!!

Yes, the mountains of Revelation 1 are kings. That is clearly stated in the text. That doesn't change the fact Jerusalem, like Rome sits atop seven mountains and was known as such in the first century.... for all those who think Rome is the city in question.

Note that five of the kings have (already) fallen at the time of the vision, and an additional one has come and gone. It was earlier claimed Revelation was futurist when clearly here is another example of something in the book that is past-tense. You've negated your own claim.



I read an appeal to the book of Daniel. Note that Daniel was told to seal the prophesies because the time was then not yet at hand but in Revelation John is told to leave the prophesies unsealed because the time was then close at hand.

"Near" means near. "Near" does not mean "20 or more centuries from now."

Look it up.

 

[Josheb]

When it says he comes soon or quickly, its referring to Jesus returning FAST or IN HASTE....Not soon as you suppose, the Greek word TACHOS is used, where we get tachometer from. The word EN is used also, that means a state of TIME.........So it means when the Father sends me, at a future point in time, I will come IN HASTE.

Yeo. It is completely reasonable to interpret "tachei" in such a manner. No argument there. No dissent was posted to that effect. You're arguing a red herring.

The events that would occur will happen quickly because..... "the time is near."

Period.

The word "near" means near. The Greek word "engys" means near. That conjugation of that word is used thirty times in the NT and in every single usage it means near. It mean near in nearly every modern English translation not dependent upon the KJV tradition.

Look it up.

The book opens that way and it concludes that way.

Look it up.

 

[Revealing Times]

Nope. Not only is that not what the text states but the conjugation of Matthew 24's "this generation" is near demonstrative. It cannot be made to mean "that generation."

And your argument does not change the fact "near" means near.


Be as critical of your sources as you are of my posts. They taught you wrong. Look it up.


Look it up.

This proves why you are confused about the Book of Revelation {BoR}. I don't have to look them up, as a preacher of over 30 years I know them well, but for discussions sake I will copy and paste. I have done an extensive exegesis on the whole book Matt. 24. After Jesus tells them about the 70 AD event {Matt. 24:4-6} we get the Church Age Events in verses 7-14. Then in verses 15-31 we get the 70th week Tribulation events. During THIS END TIME, is what Jesus is speaking of below via his parable of the Fig Tree.

Matt. 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

What are ALL THESE THINGS ? Well look back at Jesus' lecture to the Disciples !! The Temple will be destroyed,{CHECK} There will be false christ via 70 AD {CHECK}, there will be Wars, Famines, Pestilence, Earthquakes {CHECK} the Disciples will be killed {CHECK} there will be false prophets during the Church Age {CHECK}, the gospel will be preached unto the ends of the earth, {CHECK} The AoD is placed in the temple {CHECK}. the Jews who Repent Flee Judea {CHECK}, there will be TROUBLES like never seen before {CHECK}, THE Anti-Christ and False Prophet show up in verse 24 {CHECK}, they try to trick the Jews into coming out of Petra but Jesus says BEHOLD I have forewarned you of all these things and you will see me coming out of the EASTERN SKIES {CHECK}, and just before this Second Coming the sun and moon will turn dark and the stars will fall from heaven, THEN you will see the Son of Man coming from the Eastern Skies !!

Then we get the PARABLE ABOVE that you misdiagnose as being of the Disciples Generation, Jesus CLEARLY SAYS that The Generation that SEES ALL THESE THINGS will see his Second Coming or will see all these things fulfilled, and BY READING we can see all these things being fulfilled means the Second Coming !! So THE GENERATION, that sees all these things has to see the very LAST THING Jesus mentioned, the sun and moon going dark during the 6th Seal Event which is in the 70th week tribulation. I feel I need to open up a class room!! Geeeze, this is simple stuff man. Come on brother, pick it up, we need you to teach others the Gospel.

 

[Revealing Times]

I don't look to Google over scripture to interpret scripture.

This is purely self defeating. So you don't know the facts because you close your eyes to the facts.

It's informative that you do look to Google, though. Scripture first renders scripture, RT. What scripture states is purple and scarlet were worn by the Jewish priests.

And by nearly all Religious Orders and Royals. Go look at Daniel chapter 5, the Mene, Mene, Tekel chapter. Rev. 17 is basically lifted from that chapter where Belshazzar sees the handwriting on the walls. He profaned God by drinking from the Cups that belonged to the Temple of God and by worshiping gods made of silver, gold, brass and wood. Babylon fell that very day.

What scripture states is the future events of Revelation were near. What Revelation recounts is past, present-to-the-first-century, and future to the first century events were going to come quickly because the time was near. What scripture does with the word "near" is always use it in its ordinary definition; "near" means near.

Revelation is all future save Rev. 2 and 3. There is really no use in even discussing that.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Josheb]

This proves why you are confused...

This is purely self defeating. So you don't know the facts because you close your eyes to the facts.

I will gladly return to the conversation when you repent from personally derisive content and post evidence of some ability to keep the posts about the posts and not the posters. The ad hominem content is self-indicting and fallacious with which there will be no collaboration. Consider your methods, not just your content. Until then the scriptures speak for themselves and don't need anyone to interpret them contrary to what is plainly stated.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Eloy Craft]

The Incarnation triggered a public display of the harlot and the beast . Enemies of God they are. A harlot is a married woman, and an adultress. This is a symbol of religious leaders who have abandoned. God for to chase as after another. The Jewish leaders who rejected Jesus and plotted to o kill Him were doing that to God to His face.

The Corrupt Jewish leaders manipulated the Roman government into carrying out their will to murder Jesus. The harlot took the reigns of the beast to destroy God.

John 19

He said to the Jews, “Here is your King!” 15 They cried out, “Away with him! Away with him! Crucify him!” Pilate asked them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but the emperor.” 16 Then he handed him over to them to be crucified.

Jesus is the bridegroom who's bride hated Him in spite of His love.

Hossea offers a sense of the idolatrous history of Israel as a harlot and that history comes to a head in Jerusalem.


Revelation gives a clue of the origin of the harlot. Mother of harlots.

"And in you was found the blood of prophets and of saints,
and of all who have been slaughtered on earth.”

All who have been slauhtered on earth?

Mother of harlots.

 

[zoidar]

If so then I regret doing so and ask your forgiveness. I'll endeavor to track that down and correct the error. Can you tell me in which post that error occurred?

PS.: I tracked that post down and have corrected the error. Thx for letting me know.

Hey, don't worry about it!

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Yes, revelation 18 gives what type of city ie, a city is superior in terms of beauty, splendor and luxury none other city that can compare to her...revelation 18:3,9,18...Probably the most beautiful city ever build in the history of mankind...A city who is centre in technology wares which traded to other countries for their riches eg, gold, silver, precious stones etc revelation 18:12-13..

A city built close to a coastline...

A modern city within the Babylonian empire territory...so she is the resurgence of the Old Babylonian in modern times....

So, the Old testament prophets prophesied about her try match info in Revelation to the old testament then you will get a clear understanding of who is the harlot in revelation....by the way Jesus also mentioned her to the people of those town who did not repented....Matthew, Luke....

answer the question please.

You state that the harlot is the city Jerusalem so you are saying that in prophecy a women represents a physical city.

What city does the other woman in rev represent?

 

[Saint JOHN]

no .. ITS ROME !!!
9 And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. (Rome on seven !!) she had sway over many kings (heads) preaches false blasphemous doctrine(whoredoms) ( blind lead the blind both fall ) (many offshoot style churches mother of harlots );
beast was etc came back..Rome military (thought destroyed ..Visigoths etc ) back as religious Rome !
responsible for tortures and deaths of many TRUE Christians (see mark 16v16+)..666 number of a man !!
the guy who runs the mob at the moment(past and present)..they crucify Christ over and over not only with there idols ! ( God says none of it..man say yes but !!! NO BUTS) but by the deaths and tortures of true Christians..
same type of religious blasphemy Jesus had to put up with when he was around !

Mt 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

 

[Revealing Times]

Yes, the mountains of Revelation 1 are kings. That is clearly stated in the text. That doesn't change the fact Jerusalem, like Rome sits atop seven mountains and was known as such in the first century.... for all those who think Rome is the city in question.

If the verse is about Kings, and it is, and its about Kings who HAVE FALLEN {or WILL FALL in the Anti-Christ's case, or in Rome's situation where they WAS....meaning a King would fall soon} and each King {besides the Anti-Christ} was a part of a larger Kingdom, and those Kingdoms were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome......please tell me how those 7 Mountains pertain to ONE CITY ANYWHERE !! This drives me crazy, when people don't get the very verses they are reading, then try to pass them on as such and such, just because they heard it somewhere from OTHER MEN.

Its not about Rome or Jerusalem AND NEVER WAS !! Its about 7 Kings who fall from 7 different PLACES !! Good Grief Charlie Brown. The Harlot is about ALL FALSE RELIGION of ALL TIME. The City Rev. 17:18 points to is Babylon, just like the name on her head says. It says the city YOU SAW, and John saw Babylon on her Head. He also saw Mystery, Mother of Harlots and Abominations of all the Earth. These are the Harlots NAMES TAGS........her IDENTIFIERS...... her DESCRIPTORS. Now all we have to do is add them up, which I did above, but people have tunnel vision.

MYSTERY................................Mystery Religions and Secret Societies.
BABYLON THE GREAT...............The City renowned for FALSE GODS, Astrology etc. etc.
Mother of Harlots.....................Semiramis gave birth to these FALSE RELIGIONS.
Abominations of all the Earth.....Any worship of any god but God is an Abomination !!

The CLUES/Descriptors spell it out for you, if people will just follow the bread crumbs. What do ALL FOUR CLUES Spell out ? FALSE RELIGION !!

This isn't that hard man, especially when its being explained in drips.

Note that five of the kings have (already) fallen at the time of the vision, and an additional one has come and gone. It was earlier claimed Revelation was futurist when clearly here is another example of something in the book that is past-tense. You've negated your own claim.

Anyone that thinks Revelation has come and gone is pretty much hopeless, and a waste of time to engage with tbh, its a fruitless venture.

I read an appeal to the book of Daniel. Note that Daniel was told to seal the prophesies because the time was then not yet at hand but in Revelation John is told to leave the prophesies unsealed because the time was then close at hand.

"Near" means near. "Near" does not mean "20 or more centuries from now."

Look it up.

You biggest problem is you don;t study the Root Hebrew and Greek words, and you seemingly don't understand the Old English ways of writing.

Yeo. It is completely reasonable to interpret "tachei" in such a manner. No argument there. No dissent was posted to that effect. You're arguing a red herring.

The events that would occur will happen quickly because..... "the time is near."

Period.

The word "near" means near. The Greek word "engys" means near. That conjugation of that word is used thirty times in the NT and in every single usage it means near. It mean near in nearly every modern English translation not dependent upon the KJV tradition.

Look it up.

The book opens that way and it concludes that way.

I can clearly KNOCK DOWN each verse you cite, but not unless you cite the verses where I can prove you wrong, that would then make my endeavor fruitful, but just talking over each other is not fruitful.

Spell it out, cite the verses, and I will knock them all down where you can't keep saying these things with any confidence.