Which Catholic doctrine do you object to the most?

[dqhall]

Again, this is NOT a debate, this is a poll, I want to know which Catholic doctrine Protestants and other non-catholics have difficulty with the most. I've already decided what my next topic for a debate with Protestants will be, but I'm not going to be doing it for a very long time. Maybe if things go extraordinary well this summer, I'll start up the debate this August, but that's only if things go extraordinarily well with my other plans, I'd personally prefer to wait and plan on it as much as possible. That debate will be last free-style debate I'm having on here, after that I'm sticking to formal debates only, but I'm getting off topic here.

Anyways, please select which Catholic doctrine you have the biggest issues with in the poll, you can expand on it in the comment section, but NO inflammatory comments! Be as respectful as possible, this is not a debate!

While touring Jerusalem, I learned Catholics taught Mary was taken up to heaven, body and soul, like Jesus. Her tomb was empty. They have a Church of the Assumption. There are other Catholic traditions that are difficult to understand.

I remember my mother told me a priest told her if she went to Mass she would go to heaven. I did not think it could be that easy. I also remember a Protestant preacher who told his congregation they were greater than John the Baptists and were all going to heaven.

Why single out Catholics? There are problems in numerous Christian sects including the Mormons (Book of Mormon), the Amish (they think driving cars is a sin), Jehova's Witness (claimed to be the chosen the chosen few of Revelation), Southern Baptists (inerrancy of the Bible), etc.

 

[Vicomte13]

Again, this is NOT a debate, this is a poll, I want to know which Catholic doctrine Protestants and other non-catholics have difficulty with the most. I've already decided what my next topic for a debate with Protestants will be, but I'm not going to be doing it for a very long time. Maybe if things go extraordinary well this summer, I'll start up the debate this August, but that's only if things go extraordinarily well with my other plans, I'd personally prefer to wait and plan on it as much as possible. That debate will be last free-style debate I'm having on here, after that I'm sticking to formal debates only, but I'm getting off topic here.

Anyways, please select which Catholic doctrine you have the biggest issues with in the poll, you can expand on it in the comment section, but NO inflammatory comments! Be as respectful as possible, this is not a debate!

I have no problems with any of those issues, when they are properly understood. I have endless nits with my fellow Catholics about the parameters of what those things mean, but no problem with them properly understood.

I would love to see a similar list for Catholics to reply to about our biggest problem with Protestantism. Is it the rejection of Holy Tradition? Is it the rejection of the Sacraments? Perhaps it is the rejection of the Communion of the Saints, or of Papal Primacy?"

My biggest problem with Protestantism is Sola Scriptura, the notion that Scripture is the complete and final revelation of God and that everything we need to know is in that book. It goes hand in hand with their concept of Sola Fide. The way I see Protestantism, it seems to be Faith alone in the Book alone, and I can't imagine really believing that.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Mine is not on the list, but for me it is the tendency to want to quantify things that shouldn't be quantified. Grace is understood as a created thing that is quantifiable and leads to such things as (quantified) indulgences for relief from purgatory, as well as (quantified) penances to offset sin that has also become quantifiable, which leads to a legalistic view of salvation as satisfying certain conditions.

Well said.

 

[AFrazier]

Again, this is NOT a debate, this is a poll, I want to know which Catholic doctrine Protestants and other non-catholics have difficulty with the most. I've already decided what my next topic for a debate with Protestants will be, but I'm not going to be doing it for a very long time. Maybe if things go extraordinary well this summer, I'll start up the debate this August, but that's only if things go extraordinarily well with my other plans, I'd personally prefer to wait and plan on it as much as possible. That debate will be last free-style debate I'm having on here, after that I'm sticking to formal debates only, but I'm getting off topic here.

Anyways, please select which Catholic doctrine you have the biggest issues with in the poll, you can expand on it in the comment section, but NO inflammatory comments! Be as respectful as possible, this is not a debate!

My personal issue concerns the over-adoration of Mary. She's not God. Outside of that one thing, I can tolerate most other Catholic doctrines. Where I disagree with them, I just treat them the same way I treat the doctrines of many Protestant denominations. I ignore them. Not one church, Catholic or otherwise, has the right of it in all things. So I don't see the point in nit-picking and criticizing.

But the Mary bit does bother me. She's not God. She was a woman, blessed and called to do a great thing, much as Moses, Abraham, Samson, David, and so many others before her were called to do great things on God's behalf. And while I acknowledge that most Catholics do not consider Mary to be God, and would argue to the contrary, there are far too many prayers, praises, and similar. The actions of the Catholic church demonstrate that they regard her as divinity of some sort. Or at the very least as being someone or something of greater stature than the rest of us. Someone worthy of praying to. And all praise and prayer belongs to God alone.

Those are my thoughts.

 

[Athanasius377]

I voted for Eucharist and by that I mean the doctrine of the Mass. I accept the Real presence but reject the idea of Transubstantiation. That is another issue altogether. What I mean is that I reject the idea that the Mass is a propitiatory sacrifice offered (or re-represented) by a priesthood. There is a whole discourse on this subject in the book of Hebrews.

 

[JacksBratt]

While touring Jerusalem, I learned Catholics taught Mary was taken up to heaven, body and soul, like Jesus. Her tomb was empty. They have a Church of the Assumption. There are other Catholic traditions that are difficult to understand.

I remember my mother told me a priest told her if she went to Mass she would go to heaven. I did not think it could be that easy. I also remember a Protestant preacher who told his congregation they were greater than John the Baptists and were all going to heaven.

Why single out Catholics? There are problems in numerous Christian sects including the Mormons (Book of Mormon), the Amish (they think driving cars is a sin), Jehova's Witness (claimed to be the chosen the chosen few of Revelation), Southern Baptists (inerrancy of the Bible), etc.

I agree. There are problems with all "organized religions"

I even have trouble calling myself "religious" as "religious" to me indicates rituals and repeated actions or words..... All religions are man made.... IMO Christ wants a "relationship" not "religion"

As such... all forms or organized worship and doctrine, have faults.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Papal infallibility, mandatory celibacy for priests (add the church’s handling of the pedophile priest scandal), Sacred Tradition as equal to (or above) the actual word of God, Mariolatry and praying to the creation instead of the Creator, rejection of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide, purgatory and indulgences, their teaching that dying after committing a mortal sin and before going to confession sends one straight to hell, and the liturgical mass.

 

[W2L]

All of the above.

 

[mindlight]

While voting Papacy I have to see this as symbolic of the deepest problem. The elevation of church and saints and tradition over scripture and the assertion of the right to do that in the ex cathedra announcements of a pope become spiritual emperor. Basically the Catholics blur the boundaries between God and church to the point of asserting that the institutions and embedded teachings of the church embody an authority even over the scriptures God gave.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Sola Scriptura is high on my list of things I want to debate.

Didn't you attempt that once before?

 

[Strong in Him]

I voted veneration of Mary and the saints, but in practice, the biggest issue for me has been the Eucharist.

Years ago, where I lived then, we used to do a pulpit exchange for the week of prayer for Christian Unity. One year, the Methodist church swapped with the Catholics, and because our other preacher was busy, he sent me along to the Catholic church.
My first hope was that it might be a non Mass service, so that I could take part - no.
My second hope was that, being the week of prayer for Christian Unity, I might be allowed to take Mass - again, no.
Some Christian unity!

A year or so before that I had chosen to go on a Catholic retreat. I knew it was Catholic - it didn't bother me, especially as they made a point of stating that all were welcome.
When I arrived, there were two groups of nuns, and a few other people who, it seemed, were all Catholic. Not a problem, or so I thought. But not only did they not have any service books out because "oh, but everyone knows it", but when the priest came to me with the communion bread, one of the nuns stopped him, saying "she's a protestant."!

My husband was not allowed to take Mass in the 18 years that he taught in a Catholic school.
I have heard of churches where the partner/relative of a Catholic is also allowed to take Mass; which means there's an inconsistency.
I'm sure you would tell me - if we debated it - that there are good reasons, and I respect your right to practice as you wish. But I don't think anyone realised how unbelievably hurtful it was to be denied participation in the Lord's supper by a group of fellow Christians.

If this issue ever got sorted out, I'm afraid there are a couple of other things that I have problems with. But this has certainly made me think twice about going into a Catholic church again.

PS as a non Catholic I would be able to debate in this forum anyway. I only noticed this, and answered, because it is a featured thread.

 

[Johnsloan]

None of them. We are not called to be objectionable.

Jesus said what are they to you? Leave them alone. That goes for all of us.

 

[Doug Melven]

I agree..... there was no "all of the above" vote. Therefore.... Sola Scriptura bout does it.

If there had been an all of the above choice I think I would have taken it.
The first 4 on the list I have problems with, the next 5 I have major problems with, the 7 Sacraments I am not familiar with and it was added after I voted.

 

[wonderkins]

I would have picked all of the above, had it been available.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

My problem with Catholicism is the same as my problem with Mormonism, Islam, Zoroastrianism and atheism. I would say that it's Sola Scriptura, but that would be overstating the problem. The problem is really just Scriptura, at the very least. None of those other things would be an issue if they simply followed the Bible. That they sought to add to scripture caused less harm than what they subtracted from scripture through their additions. If the order were reversed and we overwrote their tradition with our scripture, then the worst of their dogmas would be wiped clean, and what remained would be de-fanged. That's not even Sola. It's just Scriptura.

 

[rockytopva]

I believe in the seven churches as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

Thankfully I think the spirit of Jezebel, to control and to dominate, is more in the religion of Islam than in Christianity. I furthermore enjoy the uniqueness of each church congregation and would not want to spoil the unique features that make each congregation beautiful in the eyes of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I think that the Catholic church faces the challenges we all face in this Laodicean church age, the challenge of materialism and lukewarmness. I picked "The Priesthood." My dad studied to become a Catholic priest, which won him most favor with the nuns of his church. The problem with celibacy and the demand to know many languages took a toll on him and he and most of his friends dropped out of seminary. Most of all because of the difficulty. My dad is no dummy either! He went on to get a bachelors degree with top honors and rose to the level of Master Chief in the Navy.

I think that the Catholic church faces the challenges we all face in this Laodicean church age, the challenge of materialism and lukewarmness. Our local church, Saint Mary's in Blacksburg, has struggled with pastors. Last time I visited there were no nuns or monks, and the church was basically run by layman. This is a beautiful church by the way!

If I would challenge the Catholic church I would encourage them to allow their priests to marry.

 

[klutedavid]

Again, this is NOT a debate, this is a poll, I want to know which Catholic doctrine Protestants and other non-catholics have difficulty with the most. I've already decided what my next topic for a debate with Protestants will be, but I'm not going to be doing it for a very long time. Maybe if things go extraordinary well this summer, I'll start up the debate this August, but that's only if things go extraordinarily well with my other plans, I'd personally prefer to wait and plan on it as much as possible. That debate will be last free-style debate I'm having on here, after that I'm sticking to formal debates only, but I'm getting off topic here.

Anyways, please select which Catholic doctrine you have the biggest issues with in the poll, you can expand on it in the comment section, but NO inflammatory comments! Be as respectful as possible, this is not a debate!

What is the foremost doctrine, the first doctrine, the primary doctrine?

 

[Archivist]

Why single out Catholics? There are problems in numerous Christian sects including ...the Amish (they think driving cars is a sin)

That is incorrect. I lived in southcentral Pennsylvania before I moved and had Amish neighbors. The Amish will ride in cars, they don't think that their neighbors are sinning by driving cars. The following, from the Young Center for Amish Studies at Elizabethtown College, explains the real reason why the Amish don't own or drive cars:

"Q: Why do the Amish drive horse and buggy?

A: The Amish think that ownership of cars would encourage people to drive away from home more often and give youth easier access to cities. In short, they fear that the car would pull their community apart. The horse and buggy is also a symbol of their separation from the larger world. Many Amish groups permit their members to hire “taxis” driven by local non-Amish people who provide their own vehicles for business and long distance trips."

 

[Archivist]

I also do not like the pagan symbols everywhere...upside crosses (like in devil worship).

We have an inverted cross in front of the Protestant church I attend. The inverted cross is a St. Peter Cross. It is inverted because St. Peter was crucified upside down. We have it on the front of our church because our church is St. Peter Lutheran Church. The inverted cross is an ancient Christian symbol that has only been used in satanic worship in more recent years.

 

[JesusLovesOurLady]

I have no problems with any of those issues, when they are properly understood. I have endless nits with my fellow Catholics about the parameters of what those things mean, but no problem with them properly understood.

I would love to see a similar list for Catholics to reply to about our biggest problem with Protestantism. Is it the rejection of Holy Tradition? Is it the rejection of the Sacraments? Perhaps it is the rejection of the Communion of the Saints, or of Papal Primacy?"

My biggest problem with Protestantism is Sola Scriptura, the notion that Scripture is the complete and final revelation of God and that everything we need to know is in that book. It goes hand in hand with their concept of Sola Fide. The way I see Protestantism, it seems to be Faith alone in the Book alone, and I can't imagine really believing that.

Hmm.. What's my biggest problem with Protestantism, I guess it could be the rejection of the Eucharist (although in the case of Lutherans, this becomes more complex) since that is Christ Himself truly and physically there of those who love Him. However, I also have huge issues with their rejection (major understatement here, because I'm trying to be polite) of devotion to Mary, although as you pointed out, there are some Catholics who don't know, or even simply don't like the fact that devotion to Mary is essential for Salvation.