Which Catholic doctrine do you object to the most?

[NW82]

Having an option for more than one would help, as the issues with multiple issues rank up there at the same level.

 

[JesusLovesOurLady]

My personal issue concerns the over-adoration of Mary. She's not God. Outside of that one thing, I can tolerate most other Catholic doctrines. Where I disagree with them, I just treat them the same way I treat the doctrines of many Protestant denominations. I ignore them. Not one church, Catholic or otherwise, has the right of it in all things. So I don't see the point in nit-picking and criticizing.

But the Mary bit does bother me. She's not God. She was a woman, blessed and called to do a great thing, much as Moses, Abraham, Samson, David, and so many others before her were called to do great things on God's behalf. And while I acknowledge that most Catholics do not consider Mary to be God, and would argue to the contrary, there are far too many prayers, praises, and similar. The actions of the Catholic church demonstrate that they regard her as divinity of some sort. Or at the very least as being someone or something of greater stature than the rest of us. Someone worthy of praying to. And all praise and prayer belongs to God alone.

Those are my thoughts.

That's false and a blasphemous accusation, Mary is a human woman, she is not divine, she is a Immaculate Conceived perfect human being, but she is not God and she is not adored. But I go into this because this not a debate.

Calling Mary God or divine, and saying that she is adored or worshipped is blasphemy.

 

[JesusLovesOurLady]

Didn't you attempt that once before?

It was only an attempt.

 

[Strong in Him]

Hmm.. What's my biggest problem with Protestantism, I guess it could be the rejection of the Eucharist

We don't reject the Eucharist.
Eucharist=Lord's Supper=communion - which we accept and practice.

I also have huge issues with their rejection (major understatement here, because I'm trying to be polite) of devotion to Mary, although as you pointed out, there are some Catholics who don't know, or even simply don't like the fact that devotion to Mary is essential for Salvation.

It isn't.
Salvation is through Jesus alone. Peter said "there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved". Acts of the Apostles 4:12

There was a debate in another thread which said that if it wasn't for Mary, Jesus would not have been born. That may be true - and Mary was blessed, and privileged, to give birth to the Son of God. I agree with all that. But compulsory devotion if you want to be saved? No.

 

[JesusLovesOurLady]

What is the foremost doctrine, the first doctrine, the primary doctrine?

Well the Eucharist has been called the "Source and Summit of the Faith" and as I mentioned in an earlier post, if I were to say what my biggest issue with Protestantism is, I would probably go with the rejection of the Eucharist.

But I'd hesitate to say if that would be "the foremost doctrine, the first doctrine, the primary doctrine," and we're most certainly not "Sola Eucharistia."

 

[Blade]

Yeshua/Jesus.. is the way the truth and the life. Yeshua came in the flesh. Born of the virgin Mary. Died on the cross for the worlds sins. Was buried and rose the 3rd day. He is the only way to the Father. Anything for me that adds or takes away from this is not from Him. I have seen wonders of my Father and for some reason He always wants me to know "ITS WRITTEN".

For me.. I can use ANY NAME to heal to try to save and it never has worked. Yet.. Yeshua/Jesus.. I have witness blind see, deaf hear and other healings and people that NEVER heard of Christ .. HE shows up..and its HIM alone. And all of this is 100% in His word.

I never found Him.. He found me. I have no hope in man or any group. Its HIM and HIM alone. The Father the great I AM.. Jesus.. the son.. the friend the brother the savior and the sweet sweet Holy Spirit. I seek my Father through Christ by the sweet sweet Holy Spirit that never speaks of Himself. All of this is not a dream not a idea.. HE IS REAL!

As long as I seek Him through some group.. all I would ever get is ONLY what they see what they believe. And I will not limit my Father my GOD. I have found SOME that have a fear of God.. which is wise. Some have such a reverence for the Father that most do not have.

So I ask you to forgive me but.. I will not post some group.. I will say who is the only one true living God the only savior of this world that died and rose so that any who would believe shall not taste death but have every lasting life. All of this is OUR Free choice..

 

[redleghunter]

Again, this is NOT a debate, this is a poll, I want to know which Catholic doctrine Protestants and other non-catholics have difficulty with the most. I've already decided what my next topic for a debate with Protestants will be, but I'm not going to be doing it for a very long time. Maybe if things go extraordinary well this summer, I'll start up the debate this August, but that's only if things go extraordinarily well with my other plans, I'd personally prefer to wait and plan on it as much as possible. That debate will be last free-style debate I'm having on here, after that I'm sticking to formal debates only, but I'm getting off topic here.

Anyways, please select which Catholic doctrine you have the biggest issues with in the poll, you can expand on it in the comment section, but NO inflammatory comments! Be as respectful as possible, this is not a debate!

The poll is not set up to choose multiple options.

 

[klutedavid]

Well the Eucharist has been called the "Source and Summit of the Faith" and as I mentioned in an earlier post, if I were to say what my biggest issue with Protestantism is, I would probably go with the rejection of the Eucharist.

But I'd hesitate to say if that would be "the foremost doctrine, the first doctrine, the primary doctrine," and we're most certainly not "Sola Eucharistia."

The Eucharist is a symbol of the deeper doctrine, you need to reach a bit deeper into the revelation.

I will ask you again, what is the primary doctrine of Christianity?

 

[Phil 1:21]

The poll is not set up to choose multiple options.

Some of us just skipped the poll and provided a list.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well, first, we follow Jesus and not Peter. We are told in Scripture to imitate Christ and not Peter so this pictorial symbol has the wrong focus. Second, Peter was crucified upside down but it was not on an inverted cross. Peter was crucified upside down on a regular upright cross. The Romans always provided an upright cross for crucifixion.

Three, Eugène Vintras (1807–1875) may be the first to use the inverted cross in a distinctly anti-Christian way. He was a Gnostic revivalist operating in France during the middle of the 19th century.

This was long before the Catholics adopted this anti-Christian symbol.

Three, not only are the 3 satanic upside crosses a problem on your shield, the crossing of the keys on your shield is pagan in origin, as well. Usually an "x" in the occult world symbolizes cross bones from a skull and cross bones symbol or picture.

The keys I do not even want to go into because it would not be appropriate to say here.

 

[wonderkins]

devotion to Mary is essential for Salvation.

The Bible does not say that. My mind goes directly to Galatians 1:8-9. That is not what was taught by the apostles.

The Bible also does not say Mary was immaculately conceived. If it does, please direct me to that scripture.

 

[mark kennedy]

Again, this is NOT a debate, this is a poll, I want to know which Catholic doctrine Protestants and other non-catholics have difficulty with the most. I've already decided what my next topic for a debate with Protestants will be, but I'm not going to be doing it for a very long time. Maybe if things go extraordinary well this summer, I'll start up the debate this August, but that's only if things go extraordinarily well with my other plans, I'd personally prefer to wait and plan on it as much as possible. That debate will be last free-style debate I'm having on here, after that I'm sticking to formal debates only, but I'm getting off topic here.

Anyways, please select which Catholic doctrine you have the biggest issues with in the poll, you can expand on it in the comment section, but NO inflammatory comments! Be as respectful as possible, this is not a debate!

By far, devotions to Mary and the Saints, it's the only reason I haven't signed up for RICA classes. It's the only reason I'm not Catholic now. I'm not all that worried about Sola Scriptura, the Apostolic authority of the New Testament is not something Rome will argue with very much. The sacraments cause a few thorny issues for me but I don't see a problem working through them as a layman, Rome is pretty tolerant with laymen within certain limits. I identify somewhat with church tradition and think it's a neglected field of study for Protestants.

I'll never forget hearing a prayer brought in a Catholic church where the one leading the prayer said they bring the prayer in the name of the Blessed Virgin. I was stunned, to this day it's the biggest issue in the whole thing.

Truthfully, justification by grace through faith is easier to deal with when engaging Catholics since they have never really denied the doctrine. It's Mary and the Saints as intercessors that give me the biggest problems and I'm at a loss for how to even engage the issue, let alone resolve it.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[W2L]

the fact that devotion to Mary is essential for Salvation.

You are teaching a false gospel.

 

[mark kennedy]

You are teaching a false gospel.

This verse comes to mind:

Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)​

I just can't get past that one.

Mary was blessed, and privileged, to give birth to the Son of God. I agree with all that. But compulsory devotion if you want to be saved? No.

Exactly!

 

[W2L]

This verse comes to mind:

Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)​

I just can't get past that one.

Me either.

 

[mark kennedy]

The poll is not set up to choose multiple options.

I didn't have to look long to find the one problem that causes me the most trouble. I can work with the other issues but devotions to Mary give me pause and Mary being the only way to approach Christ, I see nothing in the New Testament to support that.

 

[AFrazier]

That's false and a blasphemous accusation, Mary is a human woman, she is not divine, she is a Immaculate Conceived perfect human being, but she is not God and she is not adored. But I go into this because this not a debate.

Calling Mary God or divine, and saying that she is adored or worshipped is blasphemy.

With respect, you said this thread was not for debating, but was merely a poll. You wanted to know "which Catholic doctrine Protestants and other non-catholics have difficulty with the most." I merely answered the question.

As for your issue, please consider the Hail Holy Queen prayer.

"Hail, holy Queen, Mother of mercy, hail, our life, our sweetness and our hope."

Psalms 33:18 — Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy.

Psalms 33:22 — Let thy mercy, O LORD, be upon us, according as we hope in thee.

1 Corinthians 15:19 — If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Ephesians 4:4-6 — There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 Thessalonians 1:3 — Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father.

"To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve: to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears. Turn then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus, O merciful, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary! Amen."

Psalms 5:2 — Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for unto thee will I pray.

Psalms 18:6 — In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears.

Psalms 86:3 — Be merciful unto me, O Lord: for I cry unto thee daily.

1 John 2:1-2 — And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Do I need to continue?

Mary is not a queen. She does not give mercy. Nor is she able. She is not our life, our sweetness, or our hope. Jesus Christ is all these things. It is to God that we should cry out, not Mary. It is God who has mercy on us, not Mary. It is God who will wipe away all tears from our eyes. It is Christ who is our advocate, not Mary.

So as I said, "... while I acknowledge that most Catholics do not consider Mary to be God, and would argue to the contrary, there are far too many prayers, praises, and similar. The actions of the Catholic church demonstrate that they regard her as divinity of some sort. Or at the very least as being someone or something of greater stature than the rest of us."

Now, argue that as you please (on this thread that is just a poll and not a baited thread for arguing), but Mary is treated with reverence beyond what should be directed at any human being. In which case, she is either regarded as divine, or as someone that is a step above a mere human being.

And THAT I object to.

 

[SolomonVII]

I wonder if Catholic dogma on social morality might not bother more people in general than all of the above? Abortion, marriage, contraception, are what the world most hates about Catholicism.
That world includes many of a secular bent, as well as Protestants and more than a few Catholics too.

 

[mark kennedy]

I wonder if Catholic dogma on social morality might not bother more people in general than all of the above? Abortion, marriage, contraception, are what the world most hates about Catholicism.
That world includes many of a secular bent, as well as Protestants and more than a few Catholics too.

I don't think abortion, marriage and contraception are the things people hate most about Rome, personally, I think it's something worthy of respect.

 

[Deadworm]

I disagree with Transubstantiation, but don't find it practically offensive. At least, it encourages faith in the possibility of a mystical connection with the living Christ during the Eucharist. What I object to is the exclusion of Protestants from partaking of the holy elements. Here are 2 negative experiences that demonstrate why:

(1) I once regularly attended a joint Catholic Episcopal charismatic prayer meeting, which culminated in an ecumenical Communion service. When the local Catholic bishop got wind of this, he prohibited Catholics from taken part; they had to confine themselves to their own Eucharist. The result? A bitter dissolution of the long-standing loving prayer meetings!

(2) When I was a Theology professor, a monk invited me to take part in a Catholic Communion service. I jumped at the chance, but when the other Catholics saw me participate, they were outraged and I stopped participating. I was most angry because at the time I was unaware that I was forbidden to partake of Catholic Communion and was only accepting the Catholic monk's invitation.