Where was the Sabbath Abolished?

[Gary K]

Matthew 15:
Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, 2 “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”

3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”
10 When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand: 11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”

12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”

13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

15 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “Explain this parable to us.”

16 So Jesus said, “Are you also still without understanding? 17 Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. 20 These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”

A Gentile Shows Her Faith​

Yup. Jesus said that the Pharisees believed the Talmud over scripture. Paul was a Pharisee and he agreed with Jesus after his conversion but ikilled Christians before his conversion.

The Talmud is a creation of the scribes and Pharisees. They started creating it approximately 400 years before Jesus' day. They did this to, in their own words, create a hedge about the law.

Here is a quote from a Jew who became a Christian. His name was F.C. Gilbert and he wrote several books. This quote comes from his book Practical Lessons from the Experience of Israel.

“Come unto Me, all you that labor and are heavy laden, and 1 will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for 1 am meek and lowly in heart: and you shall find rest unto your souls. For My yoke is easy, and My burden is light.” Matthew 11:28-30.
THE Savior said: “Think not that 1 am come to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily 1 say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one little shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” [1]
2. These words of Christ are simply wonderful, as we view them in the light in which they were spoken. In fact, what is true of these words is true of all the sermon on the mount. Every one of the beatitudes struck against some rabbinical view of the law; therefore the rabbis claimed that Jesus was seeking to break down, to subvert, and to change the law. The one burden of these leaders was to teach the law. (a) It was to make a hedge about it, to build a wall around it, to fence it in on every hand with so much explanation that it could not be subverted, nor could the people be led away from it. The wise men said:

“Train up many disciples, and make a hedge for the law.” – “Ethics of the Fathers,” Chapter 1. Hillel said: “Love mankind, and allure them to the study of the law. Who does not increase his knowledge in the law, shall be cut off, and who does not study the law, is deserving of death; and he who serves himself with the crown of the law, will be consumed.” - Ibid.
“He who augments his knowledge of the law, augments life.”
Rabbi Eleazer said, “Be expeditious to study the law, that thou may know how to controvert the Epicurean.”- Ibid.
“Two who are sitting together, and have no discourse concerning the law, are accounted an assembly of scorners . . . but two who sit together, and discourse of the law, the divine presence may be said to rest upon them.” - Rabbi Chanetta in “Ethics of the Fathers.”
Rabbi Akeva said, “Tradition is a fence to the law.”
Rabbi Myer said, “Diminish your worldly affairs and engage in the study of the law: If you neglect the law, there are many, hindrances to oppose thee but if thou has labored in the study of the law, there is much recompense to be given thee.” Ibid., chapter 4.
3. Much more might be cited as evidence that the burden of their toil was the fencing in of the law: yet everything that Jesus said seemed to contradict their views of the law, and to give it another meaning. The rabbis taught also the immutability of the law:
“A law of truth hath God given to His people, by the hand of our prophet, who was faithful in his house. God will never shame nor alter His law; for evermore there is none but His.” - Daily Prayers.
4. Thus we can see how the Savior was brought face t face with their teaching of the law.

In his sermon on the mount, Christ said:
“Blessed are the poor in Spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” [2]
5. We know from the New Testament that the Pharisees were a proud and haughty- spirited class, [3] and looked down on those who were poor spirited. They taught that a man who Was poor in spirit was despised of God. [4] Therefore they asserted that Christ’s instruction was not in harmony with the law. 6. Jesus taught: “Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.” [5] But true meekness was unknown among the rabbis. They were unforgiving, loved the uppermost rooms at feasts,” and delighted to be called by the title, “Rabbi, Rabbi.” They considered that as God was high and lifted up, the more exalted their position, and the more influence that went with it by way of being above others, the nearer they came to God.

I have e=book copies of parts of the Talmud and the Pharisees had thousands of laws covering every aspect of human behavior. There are literally hundreds of laws concerning washing your hands and doing dishes. They were extremely legalistic and had no love for their fellow man,.

 

[Gary K]

My brother, the scriptures i posted come from Gods own mouth. We cannot fight against God.

No they didn't. Where does scripture say the 10 commandments were given by Moses? My words came directly from scripture. Is that not from the mouth of God?

 

[AlightSeeker]

I want to point something out that I saw. I believe it's He who directs me to these scriptures. When we fail to gather we scatter and fight against God. When our misunderstanding of scriptures leads us away from Gods command then we have made his command void. When we don't care for each other as commanded we dont honor our mother or father. We dont care for God in heaven or each other who are his children. We don't honor him in that. Our lips honor him but our heart is far from him. We must abide in him and his word alone.

Matthew 15:1 Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, 2 “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”

3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”
10 When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand: 11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”

12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”

13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

15 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “Explain this parable to us.”

16 So Jesus said, “Are you also still without understanding? 17 Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. 20 These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”

 

[AlightSeeker]

Out of the heart comes adultery

 

[Gary K]

I want to point something out that I saw. I believe it's He who directs me to these scriptures. When we fail to gather we scatter and fight against God. When our misunderstanding of scriptures leads us away from Gods command then we have made his command void. When we don't care for each other as commanded we dont honor our mother or father. We dont care for God in heaven or each other who are his children. We don't honor him in that. Our lips honor him but our heart is far from him. We must abide in him and his word alone.

Matthew 15:1 Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, 2 “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”

3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”
10 When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand: 11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”

12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”

13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

15 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “Explain this parable to us.”

16 So Jesus said, “Are you also still without understanding? 17 Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. 20 These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”

So you believe the HS argues with God's word?

 

[AlightSeeker]

We are to be faithful and not adulterers.

 

[Gary K]

Out of the heart comes adultery

Agreed, in that it comes out of the unconverted heart.

 

[AlightSeeker]

So you believe the HS argues with God's word?

Not at all but its not me arguing with him brother.

 

[AlightSeeker]

Arguing instead of submitting to and respecting our husband.

 

[Gary K]

We are to be faithful and not adulterers.

Interesting.

Isaiah 50: 1 Thus saith the Lord, Where is the bill of your mother’s divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.

 

[AlightSeeker]

Interesting.

Isaiah 50: 1 Thus saith the Lord, Where is the bill of your mother’s divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.

Amen

 

[Gary K]

Not at all but its not me arguing with him brother.

Then why are you arguing against God's eternal law? I don't do that as I accept 100% of it. You are the one saying the HS tells you to reject some scripture as non inspired..

 

[AlightSeeker]

Where may we find the Lord?

Proverbs 25:24 It is better to dwell in a corner of a housetop,
Than in a house shared with a contentious woman.

 

[Gary K]

Amen

Do you know why God said that? One of Judah's greatest sins was to reject the Sabbath.

 

[Gary K]

Where may we find the Lord?

Proverbs 25:24 It is better to dwell in a corner of a housetop,
Than in a house shared with a contentious woman.

Huh?

 

[AlightSeeker]

Then why are you arguing against God's eternal law? I don't do that as I accept 100% of it. You are the one saying the HS tells you to reject some scripture as non inspired..

My friend I have showed you that it's not me who argues against his eternal law. Are we not the bride of Christ eternally? It's not me rejecting scripture here. I accept all of his word. 100% of it. He said we live by every word from God's mouth.

 

[AlightSeeker]

Do you know why God said that? One of Judah's greatest sins was to reject the Sabbath.

I'm not the one rejecting God's eternal
Sabbath

 

[IcyChain]

I did not copy or paste, though I have used some of the same arguments elsewhere, thank you.


God's law teaches us about the nature of who He is, so saying that God's law can change is denying that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, which is why God prohibited adding to or subtracting from His law (Deuteronomy 4:2). Moreover, you deciding what is or is not subject to change seems arbitrary to me. So if the Apostles said that we are free to eat something that God commanded not to eat, and when God has instructed not to listen to anyone who speaks against obeying what He has commanded, then should we obey God or the Apostles? I think that you are referencing Acts 15, though the members of the Jerusalem Council were all servants of God, so I do not think that chapter should be interpreted as speaking against obeying anything that God has commanded.

I think we just see it differently but that’s cool. We probably agree on much more than we disagree upon.

I don’t think whether we worship on Saturday or Sunday says anything about God. He remains the same regardless. What does it say about him? That he prefers that we rest on Saturday because he likes college football better than the NFL?

I understand your viewpoint and it’s perfectly cool with me. If you believe that all of the OT laws are applicable to you, then I understand how you feel that you have to follow them.

But again - I don’t view the mosaic law as binding on Christians. I am not a Jew. I was not circumcised into the Jewish faith.

I think that Jesus created an entirely new Kingdom (which I believe is the Catholic Church with Peter as the first pope) with its own unique set of rules that are binding on Christians. There is some overlap between what is binding on Jews and what is binding on Christians, but not everything that is binding on Jews is binding on Christians, which is why I can eat pork and can worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.

And I more or less believe that Jesus granted certain men (the apostles and their successors) with authority to set the rules in the new Kingdom, and that the Holy Spirit guides them such that they teach nothing contrary to God’s will.

Basically I subscribe to a distinction between the old law and the new law. The old is not applicable to Christians and was never intended to be.

Now, you disagree with that of course and I’m sure you have some Scripture verses to prove your view, and that’s cool. But I interpret the Bible differently than you. I think that’s what it comes down to but there is still a lot that we can agree on.

 

[AlightSeeker]

Are we obeying every word from God's mouth? Are we doing every word from his mouth? Do we hear his voice or have we turned our eyes and ears away from He who spoke from heaven?


Hebrews 4:1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, [a]not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”

6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if [b]Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

The Word Discovers Our Condition​

11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

Our Compassionate High Priest​

14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[AlightSeeker]

God is speaking yet we do not obey his voice.

Hebrews 12:4 You have not yet resisted [c]to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin; 5 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,

“My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,

Nor faint when you are punished by Him;

6 For whom the Lord loves He disciplines,

And He punishes every son whom He accepts.”

7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we had [d]earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much more be subject to the Father of [e]spirits, and live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness. 11 For the moment, all discipline seems not to be pleasant, but painful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterward it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.

12 Therefore, [f]strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble, 13 and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is impaired may not be dislocated, but rather be healed.

14 Pursue peace with all people, and the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. 15 See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; 16 that there be no sexually immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. 17 For you know that even afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.

Contrast of Sinai and Zion

18 For you have not come to a mountain that can be touched and to a blazing fire, and to darkness and gloom and whirlwind, 19 and to the blast of a trumpet and the sound of words, which sound was such that those who heard begged that no further word be spoken to them. 20 For they could not [g]cope with the command, “If even an animal touches the mountain, it shall be stoned.” 21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, “I am terrified and trembling.” 22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of [h]angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

The Unshaken Kingdom

25 See to it that you do not refuse Him who is speaking. For if those did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape who turn away from Him who warns us from heaven. 26 And His voice shook the earth then, but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I will shake not only the earth, but also the heaven.” 27 This expression, “Yet once more,” denotes the removing of those things which can be shaken, as of created things, so that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let’s [j]show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe; 29 for our God is a consuming fire.