Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

[Eternally Grateful]

As to that, it could be referring to the following? I'm not saying it 100% is, but that it could possibly be referring to that.


Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

If we go to Luke 21 we see this after that verse.

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations : and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

If we go back to Daniel 11, we see this after that verse in that chapter, the one I submitted above.

Daniel 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword , and by flame, by captivity , and by spoil, many days.

Scripture interpreting Scripture, the many days meant in Daniel 11:33 might be meaning---and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled---that according to Luke 21:24.

Amen, someone get it!

 

[Dave L]

Well you have yet to prove that, and seem to not want to discuss what people say so...

If there was a gap, you would have proven it from scripture by now. Your entire scheme is based on nothing biblical, but purely conjecture.

 

[jgr]

Still twisting luke 21 eh?

Have you figured out what an abomination which causes desolations means yet?

Luke figured it out for me.

About 2,000 years ago.

How about you?

 

[Douggg]

Do you deny that Christ fulfilled the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and spoken in His own words at the Last Supper in Matthew 26:28, and specifically applied to the "church" in Hebrews 12:22-24?

.

Do you deny that Moses made that law to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years in Deuteronomy 31:9-13?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

“The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine; for ye are strangers and sojourners with me.” (Leviticus 25:23)

“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.” (Galatians 3:16)

“For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” (2 Corinthians 1:20)

Genesis 17:8 : Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

Lev 26
if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me,

41 and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies;

and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies;
if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt—
42 then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember;
I will remember the land.
43 The land also shall be left empty by them, and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them;
they will accept their guilt, because they despised My judgments and because their soul abhorred My statutes.
44 Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them;
for I am the Lord their God.
45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God:
I am the Lord.’ ”

Eternal means forever, why are you fighting it?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If there was a gap, you would have proven it from scripture by now. Your entire scheme is based on nothing biblical, but purely conjecture.

I did quite a few times, you have yet t respond that the passages i have posted, all you do is say i am wrong, 5ere s no gap, no enchilatta, no anything

Do you want to discuss it or not? Your not helping you case by ignoring and not discussing the issue when people bring the whole passage up and give them what they think it says

Discussing means, ok i see what you beli3e, your wrong here, this is why.

You have yet to do that.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Luke figured it out for me.

About 2,000 years ago.

How about you?

Nope your still wrong

Luke showed how the city was destroyed, not that an abomination which causes desolation made the holy place unclean, even jesus understood that when he said when you see the abomination fo desolation spoken of by daniel STANDING in the holy place..

No one saw it in 70ad, no one. No one could, the temple was destroyed and the city made desolate, as luke said

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-the-70-weeks-of-dan-9.8077710/#post-73069437

Daniel 9:24 ‘Seventy<7657> sevens<7620>

Daniel 9:24: .......are determined/decreed/divided<2852> upon thy people<5971>,..........

Daniel 9:24
...............,finish/restrain<3607> the transgression<6588>.........

Daniel 9:24
to finish/stop-up<3607> the transgression<6588>,
6588 pesha` peh'-shah from 6586; a revolt (national, moral or religious):--rebellion, sin, transgression, trespass

#6588 used in 2 other verses of Daniel:

YLT)
Daniel 8:
12 And the host is given up, with the continual-sacrifice<8548> in transgression<6588>, and it flingeth truth landward, and it hath worked, and did prosper.
13 'And I hear a certain holy one speaking, and a certain holy one speaking to the one speaking: "Till when the vision of the continual<8548> and of the transgression<6588>, one desolating, give of sanctuary and host tramping"?

The equivalent greek word appears to be #G3845, which is used only 4 times in the NT [tho there are other forms of it which I show below]

3845. parabaino par-ab-ah'-ee-no from 3844 and the base of 939; to go contrary to, i.e. violate a command:--(by) transgress(-ion).
3847. parabasis par-ab'-as-is from 3845; violation:--breaking, transgression.
3848. parabates par-ab-at'-ace from 3845; a violator:--breaker, transgress(-or).

Matthew 15:3
But he answered and said unto them, "why do ye also transgress<3845> the commandment of God by your tradition?
2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth<3845> and abideth not in the doctrine of the Christ, hath not God.
He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

https://biblehub.com/daniel/9-24.htm

.....to finish the transgression;
not the transgression of Adam, or original sin, which, though took away by Christ from his people, yet not from all men; nor the actual transgression of man in general, which never more abounded than in the age in which Christ lived; but rather the transgressions of his people he undertook to satisfy for, and which were laid on him, and bore by him, and carried away, so as not to be seen more, or to have no damning power over them. The word used signifies "to restrain" (u); now, though sin greatly abounded, both among Jews and Gentiles, in the age of the Messiah; yet there never was an age in which greater restraints were laid on it than in this, by the ministry of John the Baptist, and of Christ in Judea and by the apostles in the Gentile world....................

 

[keras]

oh boy.

Esau has never represented Isreal. Esau is represented by Edom, which is a nation which in the last book of the OT God said he loved less than Jacob (as it says, Jacob I have loved, Esau I have hated)

Pauls point was that Israel was chosen BEFORE Esau, even though by right, Esau was born first. To prove God does not do things the way Man thinks, he can do whatever he wills. And also to prove that it was not by the will or birth of man that Isreal was chosen, because God chose them as a nation BEFORE the child "Jacob" was born

Thinking that the current Jewish State of Israel is still God's chosen people, is quite wrong and unbiblical.
Anyone who wants to identify the Jews as “Israel” is not speaking about the true Israel of God, as defined in the Bible. Galatians 6:16 If we have another Israel, we have another gospel. But the same people will insist that Jews of much racial mixture are a single race when they are not. They want it both ways.

The term Ioudaios [Judean] is wrongly accepted as the “racial” term Ioudas [Jew] when reading the New Testament and is the root of the misunderstanding. The use of the territorial term, Judean, is not a measure of race, although some Israelites were amongst the proselytes to Judaism in Judea.

The word, “Jews”, cannot always be taken in the way that is commonly accepted. Modern international Jewry is primarily of Edomic or Japheth/Ashkenazim or Sephardim origin, and the Jewish Encyclopaedia states that Edom is modern Jewry. Edomites are not Israelites; it was Esau who sold his birthright. The descendants of Japheth cannot be ethnic Israelites. Neither are “Jews” of other races Israelites by race.
Modern Jewry relates to Edom, Zionism, World Government and the Israeli state, but not to Biblical Israel. At the end of the age it will be the Edomite-Jewish association with their Babylonic enmity that will be burned by fire. Obadiah 1:16-18; Rev 18:6-8

But there is a final twist declared in Encyclopedia Judaica 1971, 10, column 23:
“JEWS BEGAN IN THE 19TH CENTURY TO CALL THEMSELVES HEBREWS AND ISRAELITES IN 1860.
This coincides with the cry, “anti-Semitism”.. If Zionists began so late in history to pretend that they were Israelites or Hebrews, this confirms the hoax that claims “The Jews” are the Israel of God.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Eternally Grateful said: ↑
Still twisting luke 21 eh?

hat an abomination which causes desolations means yet?

Luke figured it out for me.

About 2,000 years ago.

How about you?

That is why I start threads on Luke.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/matthew-24-mark-13-and-luke-21-harmonized.8076438/
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 harmonized

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/luke-23-30-mountains-fall-on-us-hills-cover-us.8077312/

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/wars-and-rumors-of-wars.8077544/

Luke 21:
9 Whenever yet ye should be hearing battles< and tumults<181>, no be being dismayed<4422> for is binding these to be becoming first but not immediately<2112> the end/the end/τέλος<5056>.

1 Peter 4:7
Of all-things yet the end/τέλος<5056> Has drawn nigh/hggiken <1448>;
be sane! then and be sober! into the prayers,

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/luke-21-31-nigh-is-the-kingdom-of-god.8077095/

Luke 21:
31 thus also ye, when ye may be beholding these becoming, ye are knowing that nigh is the Kingdom of the God;
32 Amen I am saying to ye — the generation, this-one, may not no be passing away till all may be becoming;
33 the heaven and the land shall be passing away, the yet words of Me may not no be passing away.


.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thinking that the current Jewish State of Israel is still God's chosen people, is quite wrong and unbiblical.
Anyone who wants to identify the Jews as “Israel” is not speaking about the true Israel of God, as defined in the Bible. Galatians 6:16 If we have another Israel, we have another gospel. But the same people will insist that Jews of much racial mixture are a single race when they are not. They want it both ways.

The term Ioudaios [Judean] is wrongly accepted as the “racial” term Ioudas [Jew] when reading the New Testament and is the root of the misunderstanding. The use of the territorial term, Judean, is not a measure of race, although some Israelites were amongst the proselytes to Judaism in Judea.

The word, “Jews”, cannot always be taken in the way that is commonly accepted. Modern international Jewry is primarily of Edomic or Japheth/Ashkenazim or Sephardim origin, and the Jewish Encyclopaedia states that Edom is modern Jewry. Edomites are not Israelites; it was Esau who sold his birthright. The descendants of Japheth cannot be ethnic Israelites. Neither are “Jews” of other races Israelites by race.
Modern Jewry relates to Edom, Zionism, World Government and the Israeli state, but not to Biblical Israel. At the end of the age it will be the Edomite-Jewish association with their Babylonic enmity that will be burned by fire. Obadiah 1:16-18; Rev 18:6-8

But there is a final twist declared in Encyclopedia Judaica 1971, 10, column 23:
“JEWS BEGAN IN THE 19TH CENTURY TO CALL THEMSELVES HEBREWS AND ISRAELITES IN 1860.
This coincides with the cry, “anti-Semitism”.. If Zionists began so late in history to pretend that they were Israelites or Hebrews, this confirms the hoax that claims “The Jews” are the Israel of God.

I never mentioned any person today, so not sure why your trying to use them to discuss what i said

I was discussing romans 9 and the OT passages paul Quoted

 

[DavidPT]

Nope your still wrong

Luke showed how the city was destroyed, not that an abomination which causes desolation made the holy place unclean, even jesus understood that when he said when you see the abomination fo desolation spoken of by daniel STANDING in the holy place..

No one saw it in 70ad, no one. No one could, the temple was destroyed and the city made desolate, as luke said

This is a difficult one for me.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.


I tend to conclude these are referring to the same events. And since I can't fathom that an AOD took place around 70 AD, I therefore conclude Matthew 24:15-16 has to be referring to a future event, IOW this was never fulfilled in the 1st century. And in order to remain consistent since I conclude Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are referring to the same events, I have no choice but to then conclude the same has to be true of Luke 21:20-21, that it too has to be referring to a future event. That's where I find consulting Daniel 11 and those verses I submitted earlier, as being possibly helpful to me in trying to make sense out of how Luke 21:20-21 can even be a future event though on the surface it appears that it can't.

 

[A71]

what? If everything has been fulfilled. why is Christ not here? Why did he not destroy the final beast by his return, and set up his kingdom?

And why are you calling people fools. DO you think that makes you look like a christian who is being loving? This is not even a major doctrine, no ones eternity will depend on what they believe concerning these prophesies. So why HATE your brother?

Maybe, just maybe your the fool to begin with? How about taking the plank our before judging..

what? If everything has been fulfilled. why is Christ not here? Why did he not destroy the final beast by his return, and set up his kingdom?

And why are you calling people fools. DO you think that makes you look like a christian who is being loving? This is not even a major doctrine, no ones eternity will depend on what they believe concerning these prophesies. So why HATE your brother?

Maybe, just maybe your the fool to begin with? How about taking the plank our before judging..

I did not call anyone a fool, so quit the melodramatic umbrage, it does no-one any good. All you are doing is ramping up a discussion into a bun fight. Is that your intention here? We are all having a civilized discussion, so why would you do this? Please tone down your rhetoric.

Regarding your response, I did not say that all of Daniel was fulfilled, I said all of Daniel's sealed prophecies were fulfilled.

 

[A71]

Why? Everything you say is based on the rickety plank of gap theory...well phony plank really. Jesus spoke to his generation in Matthew 24, and told them Daniel 9:27 would be fulfilled in their generation. Very simple really

Who said this, where do you get this?




Daniel 9 spans from the pray of david, The command to rebuild jerusalem. The time up to t=when the messiah is introduced, And a period where there will be great tribulation, so severe jesus said that all flesh on earth is at risk of being killed. causing him to return to put an end to it.

Not sure where you get your information my friend, But this was a mistake. Dan 9 covers many centuries, at the least almost 5



There has to be a temple for their to be an abomination of desolation for the world to see.. So again, I recommend you rethink what you are saying

 

[DavidPT]

Regarding your response, I did not say that all of Daniel was fulfilled, I said all of Daniel's sealed prophecies were fulfilled.

Why just those in particular? As to those sealed prophecies, one thing seems plainly obvious, they wouldn't have been fulfilled while the prophecies were still sealed though.

 

[DavidPT]

Why? Everything you say is based on the rickety plank of gap theory...well phony plank really. Jesus spoke to his generation in Matthew 24, and told them Daniel 9:27 would be fulfilled in their generation. Very simple really

"Why? Everything you say is based on the gap theory. Jesus spoke to his generation in Matthew 24, and told them Daniel 9:27 would be fulfilled in their generation. Very simple really"

There---fixed it for you.


It's obvious that you are using tactics such as this in order to make your position more believable, and your opponent's position less believable when you add unnecessary comments such as---the rickety plank of---well phony plank really.

Anyone with a real argument shouldn't have to resort to things such as that if they allegedly have the better argument.

 

[A71]

Why just those in particular? As to those sealed prophecies, one thing seems plainly obvious, they wouldn't have been fulfilled while the prophecies were still sealed though.

Because there are elements of Daniel that refer past AD73.


I think they have to remain sealed until fulfilled. In AD33 Jesus told the disciples they were not to know the times and seasons. While the prophecy was ongoing, they were not party to its meaning.
The sealing serves a very specific purpose. The apostate Jews were not allowed to know certain things, in particular if they had understood when the 70th week occured, they would not have hung around in Jerusalem, nor Judea. So the prophecy was kept secret. Not even the disciples knew. That is why Jesus explained the destruction of the Temple in a roundabout way. He could have just said, "end of AD66 run for your lives", but of course that would have become common knowledge. Hence he spoke in a riddle, for want of a better word, about the timing.

 

[oldrunner]

Hello and welcome.

Jerusalem did get double fulfillment. 1st at the hands of the Babylonians, then at the hands of the Romans.
[Depends on what Great City is symbolized in Revelation]

Revelation 18:6
Render to Her as also she did render to you, and double to Her doubles according to Her works;
in the cup that she did mingle mingle to Her double.

Isaiah 40:2
"Speak tenderly to Jerusalem, and proclaim to her that her forced labor has been completed, her iniquity has been pardoned;
for she has received from the hand of the LORD double for all her sins."

Jeremiah 16:18
And I will first repay them double their iniquity and their sin,
because they have defiled My land with the carcasses of their detestable idols, and they have filled My inheritance with their abominations.

Thanks! Boy! Can't keep up with all these posts.

The way I read it from Daniel 1, the Babylonians already came so the Gabriel was giving Daniel what will happen in the future to them and the city.

Also, I agree the Church is the seed of Abraham-through Christ, but the natural seed (Israel/Jews-the 144,000 in Rev. 7), the natural Olive Tree ( Romans 11), are now only partially blinded awaiting the fullness of the gentiles to come in. (11:25). This will happen at the resurrection of the dead, IMO. (11:15)

That is why we have Jews now wanting to build a Temple now, and offer God sacrifices gain. He is preparing the elect, those 144,000 to resume Temple work.

The remnant will then all be saved. (Zech. 12,13,14 Joel 2-3)
Paul says, God will not cast off His people He foreknew-just like He won't cast off us, and we should not be ignorant of this mystery, or wise in our own conceits about this.

Just from reading other posts, I know you probably don't believe this. But this is what I believe.

 

[Chinchilla]

Without gap you cannot explain how Messiah can both be cut off from land of living or prolong his days and his Kingdom never to be destroyed

One can assume the gap to be 3 days but one can't say there was none at all because it clearly says he was cut off .

I believe the gap is 2000 years .

 

[A71]

Don't be ridiculous. I am not using tactics. Please refrain from this kind of assertion.

Matthew 24 is very plain. Jesus refers to Daniel 9:27, which is the 70th week, in regards to his generation.

"Why? Everything you say is based on the gap theory. Jesus spoke to his generation in Matthew 24, and told them Daniel 9:27 would be fulfilled in their generation. Very simple really"

There---fixed it for you.


It's obvious that you are using tactics such as this in order to make your position more believable, and your opponent's position less believable when you add unnecessary comments such as---the rickety plank of---well phony plank really.

Anyone with a real argument shouldn't have to resort to things such as that if they allegedly have the better argument.