Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

[DavidPT]

For now, what do you think of my posts on Daniel 24 so far?

A lot of your posts have to do with certain words found in the texts, their defs according to Strong's, and then examples of other verses where these same words are used. As to me, I find this a bit too tedious, but not implying one shouldn't do these things then, since I, also, do check certain words sometimes, but only casually in order to see where else these same words might be used, so IOW, I don't make an in depth study out of it. I leave things like that for the scholars to sort out. Perhaps you are a scholar or maybe working towards that goal, but as to me, I'm just a simpleton trying my best to understand Scripture as correctly as I can, though in some cases I might be way off in the understanding correctly part.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No. Paul in Hebrews confirms that Jesus is the Messiah, fulfilling Daniel's prophecies and visions. That is a benchmark scriptural proof.
I am unclear how history could contradict that Jesus was the Messiah, unless you dispute he ever existed, which Obviously, (I think), is not your intention.

Hebrews never said Jesus fulfilled the full 70 weeks.

 

[Dave L]

Jesus died at the END of the 69th week.

And sacrifice and burnt offering continued in the temple until AD 70. almost 4 decades past this date.

As the author of hebrews said, Sacrifice and burnt offering (the blood of bulls and goats) NEVER took away sin. so his death would not cause it to stop anyway, The abomination of desolation did. You can not sacrifice in a holy place which has been made unclean.

“Now after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one will be cut off and have nothing. As for the city and the sanctuary, the people of the coming prince will destroy them. But his end will come speedily like a flood. Until the end of the war that has been decreed there will be destruction.” (Daniel 9:26)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are missing the point. The point is Jesus and Titus fulfilled what Gabriel said would happen during the 70th week precisely on time.

Look at it this way, a gap separates the 70th week from the rest of the weeks. This separates the 70th week from the bible. So you take one scripture, remove it from the bible, and build a hypothesis around it. And then try to lift other scriptures from their context to prove it all works out.

Um, Gabriel only fulfilled part. He destroyed the city and sanctuary, Of course Gabriel did not say Gabriel would do it, He said the people of the prince who had not yet come would.

Why are you leaving out most of what Gabriel said at the end. and twisting the rest?

 

[Dave L]

Um, Gabriel only fulfilled part. He destroyed the city and sanctuary, Of course Gabriel did not say Gabriel would do it, He said the people of the prince who had not yet come would.

Why are you leaving out most of what Gabriel said at the end. and twisting the rest?

No, the entire prophecy found fulfillment in the first century. Where's the gap?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Of course NOT. The text has been twisted and skewed by the Commentators to achieve a "Jesus" agenda. Daniel's prophecies are for the END TIME, period. -- Of course Daniel has to cover the span of empires, but the prophecies themselves are END TIME.

Follow the 12:4 & 9 INSTRUCTIONS.

Thanks,
DaDad

not all prophesies were end times, Most of his prophesies spanned the 4 gentile empires (or 5 if you want to count rome as 2) only the second or rebirth of rome speaks of the end times..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, not really. Everything sealed in Daniel has come to pass, so it is an open book.
Those who modify and project the 70th week, are effectively resealing the prophecy, as it is sealed until it is fulfilled. So if you are foolish enough to believe the futurist hologram, you can have no idea what the 70th week will actually entail, as its meaning is, according to you, sealed.
However, we who understand the fulfilment of the week, have no such problem.

what? If everything has been fulfilled. why is Christ not here? Why did he not destroy the final beast by his return, and set up his kingdom?

And why are you calling people fools. DO you think that makes you look like a christian who is being loving? This is not even a major doctrine, no ones eternity will depend on what they believe concerning these prophesies. So why HATE your brother?

Maybe, just maybe your the fool to begin with? How about taking the plank our before judging..

 

[BABerean2]

A New Covenant
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Has any of this occurred? Well no. Israel was destroyed in AD 70 because of her sin, They do not have Gods law written on their hearts, they are still to this day in rebellion. Do they all know the Lord? No. All Isreal has yet to be saved.

so no. It has not been fulfilled.

Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


The New Covenant: Bob George

.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So if a war kicks off and Israel is nuked, what then?

Who said this, where do you get this?

Israel and Jerusalem in the present are in bible prophecy,
But Dan 9 is predominantly about the first Century.

Daniel 9 spans from the pray of david, The command to rebuild jerusalem. The time up to t=when the messiah is introduced, And a period where there will be great tribulation, so severe jesus said that all flesh on earth is at risk of being killed. causing him to return to put an end to it.

Not sure where you get your information my friend, But this was a mistake. Dan 9 covers many centuries, at the least almost 5

The present state that calls itself Israel is not really Israelite in any way, so you can't really superimpose Dan 9 onto it anyway, even if you want.

Once the fig tree does start to have leaves, i.e. Once the Temple is rebuilt and Levitical practices are resumed, then it will be game on. But this is not what Dan 9 prophesies.
In fact, Jesus was clear that his return has a nebulous time factor, and Revelation confirms this, so trying to cut and paste Dan 9 onto the present time is not only wrong, it is dangerous.

There has to be a temple for their to be an abomination of desolation for the world to see.. So again, I recommend you rethink what you are saying

 

[Eternally Grateful]

“And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself

And after the band plays, the game will start

After You eat this meal, you will depart,

After you read, you should understand

Again (this is the third time i explained this). Messiah the prince was introduced on what many call palm sunday, when he entered on a donkey

He died less that a week after

This fits the interpretation, you have a 3.5 year gap, or time times and half a time betweem the end of the 69th week and his death

This does not fit

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;

The people, ot the prince himself

Occures lmost 4 decades after messiah the prince.

So you already have a gap

and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.” (Daniel 9:26)

This desolation of jerusalem will continue after it is destroyed until the end of war desolations are determined. Now you have an unknown number of years, again, where a gap is introduced.

THEN you have the prince confirming a covenant for 1week, this is when the gap ends.

Follow context and timeline

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-the-70-weeks-of-dan-9.8077710/#post-73069437

Here are a few verses using these 2 hebrew words:

Daniel 9:24
‘Seventy<7657> sevens<7620>
7657 shib`iym. shib-eem' multiple of 7651; seventy:--seventy, threescore and ten (+ -teen)

The hebrew word #2852 is used only 1 time in the OT, so I can't find other verses to compare it to.....
Most versions have "determined" or "decreed"

Daniel 9:24:
..........are determined/decreed/divided<2852> upon thy people<5971>,..........

#3607 is used only this 1 time in Daniel.

Daniel 9:24
...............,finish/restrain<3607> the transgression<6588>.........
3607 kala' kaw-law' a primitive root; to restrict, by act (hold back or in) or word (prohibit):--finish, forbid, keep (back), refrain, restrain, retain, shut up, be stayed, withhold.

A few verses using that word:

Isaiah 43:6
"I am saying to the north, 'Give them up,'
And to the south, 'must not be detaining/holding<3607>.'
Bring in My sons from afar,
And My daughters from the end of the earth".

Jeremiah 32:3 -
Where Zedekiah, king of Judah, hath been detained/held<3607>, saying, 'Wherefore art thou prophesying, saying, 'Thus said Jehovah behold! I am giving this city into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he hath captured it';

It appears the equivalent greek word may be #2722?

2722. katecho kat-ekh'-o from 2596 and 2192; to hold down (fast), in various applications (literally or figuratively):--have, hold (fast), keep (in memory), let, X make toward, possess, retain, seize on, stay, take, withhold.

Romans 7:6
and now we have ceased from the law, that being dead in which we were held-fast<2722>, so that we may serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter.

https://biblehub.com/daniel/9-24.htm

To finish.--The Hebrew margin gives an alternative rendering, "to restrain," according to which the meaning is "to hold sin back" and to "prevent it from spreading."
If this reading is adopted it will be parallel to the second marginal alternative, "to seal up," which also implies that the iniquity can no more increase. Although the alternative readings may be most in accordance with the Babylonian idea of "sealing sins," the presence of the word "to seal" in the last clause of the verse makes it more probable that the marginal readings are due to the conjectures of some early critics, than that they once stood in the text.

However, it must be observed that while St. Jerome translates the passage "ut consummetur pr?varicatio, et finem habeat peccatum," Theodotion supports the marginal reading "to seal."

====================================

"To finish" also causes difficulty; so translated, it implies that the word should be written כָלָה; but it is written כָּלָא, which means "to restrain," "to enclose," "to separate off" (Furst). Hence if we translate as it stands, it should be "restrain transgression." "To make an end of" in also "cause transgression to cease" This in a rendering of the Massoretic Q'ri; if the K'thib had been taken, the translation should rather have been "to seal." "Sins:" this word is plural in the K'thib, but singular in the Q'ri. A large number of manuscripts write the word plural; the Greek versions give the plural; the Pe-shista and Vulgate, Aquila and Paulus Tellensis, singular. "The prophecy," it is clearly an it stands "the prophet." Jerome is the only one of the versions that takes the word in the sense in which it is taken in our versions.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


The New Covenant: Bob George

.

If your going to respond to me respond to my whole post, you left out most of jeremiah 31 where it was proven you are incorrect, for the prophesy to be filfilled. All would have to come true.

The new covanent hebrews spoke of was the eyernal covenant for all mankind, not just israel

 

[Eternally Grateful]

All of the middle east can trace their blood to Abraham.

True, but was all the middle east given an eternal covenant promising them all the land of cannan?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hmmmmm. -- So history demonstrates the ~impossibility~ of an ancient fulfillment? Perhaps the angel was correct in the 12:4 & 9 guidance AFTER ALL.

Thanks,
DaDad

Yes it does, not sure what you mean by the 12: 4 and 9 reference though

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I would have used "imaginations"...

That would be rude,

 

[Dave L]

True, but was all the middle east given an eternal covenant promising them all the land of cannan?

“The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine; for ye are strangers and sojourners with me.” (Leviticus 25:23)

“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.” (Galatians 3:16)

“For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” (2 Corinthians 1:20)

 

[Dave L]

And after the band plays, the game will start

After You eat this meal, you will depart,

After you read, you should understand

Again (this is the third time i explained this). Messiah the prince was introduced on what many call palm sunday, when he entered on a donkey

He died less that a week after

This fits the interpretation, you have a 3.5 year gap, or time times and half a time betweem the end of the 69th week and his death

This does not fit



The people, ot the prince himself

Occures lmost 4 decades after messiah the prince.

So you already have a gap



This desolation of jerusalem will continue after it is destroyed until the end of war desolations are determined. Now you have an unknown number of years, again, where a gap is introduced.

THEN you have the prince confirming a covenant for 1week, this is when the gap ends.

Follow context and timeline

No gap...no enchalada

 

[jgr]

And once again, -- Newton observed:

We avoid also the doing violence to the language of Daniel, by taking the seven weeks and sixty two weeks for one number. Had that been Daniel’s meaning, he would have said sixty and nine weeks, and not seven weeks and sixty two weeks, a way of numbering used by no nation.​

So the RSV is the CORRECT Version:

25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off
​

Thus TWO arrivals of Jesus. Is one an older brother, or are there TWO manifestations?

... and this is only the beginning of the difficulties of the Classical Commentary version(s).


OTHERWISE, -- Please provide a precedent, ANY PRECEDENT, for a pair of shoes costing "seven and sixty-two dollars plus tax".

Thanks,
DaDad

Daniel 9:25
YLT
And thou dost know, and dost consider wisely, from the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem till Messiah the Leader [is] seven weeks, and sixty and two weeks: the broad place hath been built again, and the rampart, even in the distress of the times.

NASB
So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.

The YLT is recognized as the most literal of the translations.
The NASB is recognized for translation accuracy.

A clear majority of some fifty English translations render the verse in the same way as the YLT and NASB.

The RSV is plainly out of step with the majority.


Now it's your turn to answer my original question: Is Daniel 9:24 about Christ, and has He fulfilled it?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Still ignoring Luke 21:20, eh?

Still twisting luke 21 eh?

Have you figured out what an abomination which causes desolations means yet?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No gap...no enchalada

Well you have yet to prove that, and seem to not want to discuss what people say so...