Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

[BABerean2]

Of course it only applies to the beginning of the verse. That's the only way you can get your theory to allegedly work.

If it is my "theory", can you explain why it is found in the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America?

.

 

[sparow]

Per that translation, as to verse 27, it makes it clear that the 'he' who causeth the sacrifice and present to cease, is the same one who by the wing of abominations is making desolate. If that translation doesn't prove a gap, what does it prove? Does it prove the he meant in that verse is meaning Christ? I don't see how since the part about by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, couldn't possibly fit Christ.

There are places in Daniel where it seems to me that the verses have been shuffled like cards; but the Bible is not a legal document in the sense that you can use it to prove something; it is a tool we use and it contains information that has to be searched out; but not by interpreting single verses.

The bible is essentially a communication from God to Israel, about their covenantal business; Satan isn't really that important that He gets discussed in detail. The seventy weeks are to do with Israel or more specifically the Jews and the Messiah; the only people who read Satan into the seventy weeks are those with pre-existing ideas. Daniel is the only book in the Bible that gives a time frame for Prophesy.

Lets look at the seventieth week; a few allow Christ to have this week, albeit, but cut off in the middle of the week; most, in what seems to me to be irrational and unintelligent, throw the seventieth week down to the end of time and give the week of confirming the covenant to Satan.

What would it mean, "Christ confirmed the covenant"? Basically the covenant is a contract on paper, confirmed is to bring it to fruition.

Matthew 5:17 (NKJV)
17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Luke 24:44 (NKJV)
44 Then He said to them, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."

Christ confirmed the BLOOD covenant by ultimately shedding His Blood. Being confirmed it cannot be abrogated; unless the abrogator is greater than God.

Because Christ was cut off in the middle of the week there is still a half week confirming to come. The OT talks about the coming of the Messiah as a single event not two. When I look at Dan 9:26 I see a source of confusion:
Daniel 9:26 (NKJV)
26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.


One thing to note is Chapters and verses are man's work; men have divided the scriptures this way of chapter and verse and the way the scriptures are divided can change the meaning. Following, "Messiah shall be cut off, but not for himself;", the story line changes as if, not only does a new chapter seem to begin but something seems to be missing in between. Apart from the change in flow, what is said does not worry me; I can see no reason why anyone would think this is talking about Satan or a beast.

I have heard the SDA talking about the 70 week prophesy this way; Daniel and presumably Gabriel, go back to the beginning four times and each time they come through as an overlay adding more detail each time.

The opp mentions a gap and I do not know what that refers to but I disagree with he SDA regarding the 2300 year prophesy; I expect the 2300 years is the interval between the first and second coming of Christ.

 

[A71]

Thank you, now we see it clearer. The word "confirm" is the standard translation, and of course the absolutely best one.
The destruction of Judea and Jerusalen in Daniel's 70th week confirms that Jesus is the Messiah.

Deuteronomy 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

So the destruction of Israel confirms that Jesus was the anointed prophet and Messiah promised by Moses. This is very important, and one reason why playing around with the 70th week is strictly verboten and off limits.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.



Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

This belongs with the first 69 weeks.


And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself

This leads to Christ's death and resurrection, where that then led to His ascension back into heaven, which means He has to return eventually.

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


This belongs with the final week. These things are fulfilled at the end of this age, because at the end of these things it leads to Christ's 2nd coming. The only logical way this is possible, there has to be a gap between the 69th and 70th week. But the way some folks interpret these things, this latter led to the events of 70 AD instead. But what significant thing did the events of 70 AD lead to? Nothing that I can think of. Which has more significance at the end of it? Something that leads to nothing significant? Or something that leads to the 2nd coming?

70 AD was a spiritually momentous event. It broke the power of the Sadducees who had been persecuting Christians from the first.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Verse 26 Then another 62 ‘weeks’ = 434 years, plus the 49, makes a total of 483 prophetic years until ‘Messiah, the Prince, is cut off’.

‘There shall be nothing for Him’, means that at that time He did not receive the Millennium Kingdom. ‘The people of the ruler to come, will destroy Jerusalem, including the Temple’, refers to the Roman destruction in 69/70AD.

you make a strong argument that the "Messianic Prince" of verse 26 is juxtaposed against an anti-Messianic anti-Prince in verse 27.

And that there is a gap, e.g. from 33 AD to 70 AD. What stopped the Daniel clock during the gap ?

EDIT -- somehow, the first 69 weeks apply to the "Messianic clock"... but the last 1 week applies to the "anti-Messianic clock" ? The transition from "rejected Messiah" to widely-followed anti-Messiah (vv. 26-27) somehow includes a gap, e.g. ~40 years from 30 AD to 70 AD ??

RE-EDIT -- the Messiah is cut off and has nothing... and the "nothing" coincides with "no more time" elapsing on the "Daniel clock"... until the anti-Messiah in the next verse comes and destroys the temple... somehow God reckoned no time elapsing from Crucifixion to destruction of the physical temple ?

The end period; the 70th of the 7 ‘weeks’ = 7 years will be made up of 2 periods of 1260 days each. It will be the closing time of this age, ‘the end shall be with a flood’. Flood is better translated as – overflowing. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

Verse 27 The Anti Christ will make a 7 year treaty with the ‘many’. That is, the holy people of God: every born again Christian, living in their own Land. There will be a faithful remnant who will oppose this agreement, so this treaty is made with many, but not all of His people, Israel. Daniel 11:32, Isaiah 28:15. The Anti Christ will break this after 1260 days, which will commence the Great Tribulation. He sets up his own image in the Temple, then after the final 1260 days, he will meet his end. Daniel 11:45, Revelation 19:20.

does seem like you could also apply the anti-Christ prophesies to either Titus & Vespasian, or to the brutal Zealot leaders, in 70 AD.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

One shall come and become 44th President of the United States. - Barack Obama

The President shall be cutoff after January 20, 2017. - Barack Obama's last day as President

The people of the President that shall come will not be wearing MAGA caps. - Barack Obama's people did not wear MAGA caps.


The same President Barack Obama throughout.

In Daniel 9, the same Prince Messiah throughout.

Huge problem

Obama already came and went, so the president who is to come could not be him,

Otherwise, you would just say “president obama shall have his people not wear MAGA caps”

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So what have we learned here then? That context determines whether something is a grammatical antecedent or not. So let's look at the context of the verses in question.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself---are all of these things something Jesus could fulfill? Absolutely, undoubtedly, yes.

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Is this something Jesus' people would do, come and destroy the city and the sanctuary? No it isn't, therefore context has determined that the prince in verse 26 is not the same prince meant in verse 25.

Aren't Christians Jesus' people? Has there been any Christians that have come and destroyed a city and sanctuary in the past?

One thing to look at is context,

In all cases where jesus is mentioned, he was called either messiah the prince or messiah, of the future price or other price was also to be jesus, he also would have been called messiah the prince, or just plain messiah, as before.

You dont just change how you say things midstream, especially and angel such as Gabriel!

 

[A71]

What information do you want exactly about these passages?

In a related vein, please answer my repeated question about Daniel 9:24, or quote me if you have already replied, please

If your going to continue to ignore the passages i spoke to you about (lev 26, jeremiah 25, and daniel 9: 1 - 19)like i asked, we have nothing further to speak about, because you are not being honest and having an honest discussion.

We can talk about these passages you want but only after you show you can have an honest discussion and respond to the passages i showed which are the context of the daniel 9 prophesy.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You have the hierarchy reversed. Grammar is objective. It is governed by the duly recognized rules of grammar in every language.

Context, by contrast, is subjective. It is subject to potentially differing interpretations. It thus requires a benchmark to assist in arriving at its correct interpretation.

That benchmark is the objective rules of grammar. They are the first to be applied to the text. The resulting context is then analyzed to arrive at the final interpretation.

This process assures the greatest probability of consistent and reliable interpretation. It is particularly applicable to Daniel 9:24-27.



It is if they were His agents and instruments to accomplish His purposes.

The people of the prince refers to the Roman armies which were Messiah's agents and instruments to accomplish the judgment and destruction which He had prophesied. God's use of such instruments, and His characterization of them as "mine" even though pagan, can be found in several OT instances e.g.:

Jeremiah 25
9 Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the Lord, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations.

Jeremiah 43
10 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will send and take Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will set his throne upon these stones that I have hid; and he shall spread his royal pavilion over them.

God characterizes the pagan Nebuchadnezzar as "my servant" in using him and his armies against Judah and Egypt.

In the same way as Nebuchadnezzar, though a pagan, was God's servant in executing His judgment, so too were the pagan Roman armies Messiah's people in accomplishing His purposes.

In addition, the Jews themselves, as the historical people of Prince Messiah, were equally responsible for the destruction and suffering. Their own actions in defiling and destroying the buildings and temple prior to the Roman invasion are described by Josephus:

The Lamentation of Josephus
War 5.1.4 19-20

The darts that were thrown by the engines [of the seditious factions] came with that force, that they went over all the buildings and the Temple itself, and fell upon the priests and those that were about the sacred offices; insomuch that many persons who came thither with great zeal from the ends of the earth to offer sacrifices at this celebrated place, which was esteemed holy by all mankind, fell down before their own sacrifices themselves, and sprinkled that altar which was venerable among all men, both Greeks and barbarians, with their own blood. The dead bodies of strangers were mingled together with those of their own country, and those of profane persons with those of the priests, and the blood of all sorts of dead carcasses stood in lakes in the holy courts themselves.
Oh most wretched city, what misery so great as this didst thou suffer from the Romans, when they came to purify thee from thy internal pollutions! For thou couldst be no longer a place fit for God, nor couldst thou longer survive, after thou hadst been a sepulchre for the bodies of thine own people, and hast made the Holy House itself a burying-place in this civil war of thine. Yet mayst thou again grow better, if perchance thou wilt hereafter appease the anger of that God who is the author of thy destruction.

As seen, Josephus recognizes the Jews as agents of their own destruction, and that destruction as Divinely orchestrated.

Contemporary Jewish historians concur:
"The scene was now set for the revolt's final catastrophe. Outside Jerusalem, Roman troops prepared to besiege the city; inside the city, the Jews were engaged in a suicidal civil war. In later generations, the rabbis hyperbolically declared that the revolt's failure, and the Temple's destruction, was due not to Roman military superiority but to causeless hatred (sinat khinam) among the Jews (Yoma 9b). While the Romans would have won the war in any case, the Jewish civil war both hastened their victory and immensely increased the casualties. One horrendous example: In expectation of a Roman siege, Jerusalem's Jews had stockpiled a supply of dry food that could have fed the city for many years. But one of the warring Zealot factions burned the entire supply, apparently hoping that destroying this "security blanket" would compel everyone to participate in the revolt. The starvation resulting from this mad act caused suffering as great as any the Romans inflicted."


The people, both Roman and Jewish, of the prince Messiah who was to come, were Messiah's agents and instruments in accomplishing His purposes of judgment and destruction against those who had rejected Him.

Oh boy.

Titus destroyed jerusalem, he was the prince who God used,

5e prince who is to come is the final roman prince, who daniel later said would commit the abomination by declairing himself to be god, commiting blasphemies, he will be killed by christ himself and cast into the bottomless pit

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jeremiah was writing at the time of the captivity in Babylon.
That was the time of Jacob's trouble.

The New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20.
Therefore, the "Church Age" cannot end before the Second Coming of Christ.

This is confirmed by those under the blood of the Lamb in the verse below.

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ.

.

The time of jacobs troube is said to be so severe there is NON LIKE IT,

The time of great tribulation is said to be so sever, there will be NON LIKE IT,

Both end with messiah comming in victory to put an end to it.

both end with evil being destroyed and peace being introduced

It could not have been babylon or roman desecration of the city,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

you make a strong argument that the "Messianic Prince" of verse 26 is juxtaposed against an anti-Messianic anti-Prince in verse 27.

And that there is a gap, e.g. from 33 AD to 70 AD. What stopped the Daniel clock during the gap ?

EDIT -- somehow, the first 69 weeks apply to the "Messianic clock"... but the last 1 week applies to the "anti-Messianic clock" ? The transition from "rejected Messiah" to widely-followed anti-Messiah (vv. 26-27) somehow includes a gap, e.g. ~40 years from 30 AD to 70 AD ??


does seem like you could also apply the anti-Christ prophesies to either Titus & Vespasian, or to the brutal Zealot leaders, in 70 AD.

If i may, if you look at the things of the final beast in dan 2 and daniel 7 with all of the other references to them, niether titus or vespian fit the characteristic, so i would say no, it could not be them

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What information do you want exactly about these passages?

In a related vein, please answer my repeated question about Daniel 9:24, or quote me if you have already replied, please

Lol, seriously?

I asked you three times to show me how those passages did not apply in context to daniel 9,and how they perfectly explain daniel 9 and why daniel is praying, which would explain Gabriels answer to daniels prayer.

I posted my response in the same post. Where i used those passages to explain what i thought dan 9 meant, this just goes to further show you never read what i posted in the first place,

 

[A71]

Can you please not kick up all the time EG.
One wonders if the act of aggrieved defensiveness is a cover for not having a proper answer. All the huffing and puffing, and 'oh boy-ing'. Come on man, you're a grown man!!

I read your answer but your reply to my question was skimpy to say the least. If you phrase your question clear and sharp, I will endeavour to answer, but I am moving towards cessation here

Lol, seriously?

I asked you three times to show me how those passages did not apply in context to daniel 9,and how they perfectly explain daniel 9 and why daniel is praying, which would explain Gabriels answer to daniels prayer.

I posted my response in the same post. Where i used those passages to explain what i thought dan 9 meant, this just goes to further show you never read what i posted in the first place,

 

[BABerean2]

The time of jacobs troube is said to be so severe there is NON LIKE IT,

Can you show those words in the text?

.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Why not the one/s meant here? Couldn't possibly be referring to something Christ did. As to what sacrifice, it's a little more involved, and it's getting late here, so might have to try and explain that part tomorrow----maybe, so no promises then.

It has everything to do with Jesus Christ

Matthew 27:50-51 King James Version (KJV)
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

The veil was between the Holy and Most Holy of the temple, being rent in two the temple blood sacrafice was ceased as the blood of the Lamb of GOD replaced the CEREMONIAL SACRIFICE OF THE TEMPLE which always pointed forward to the SACRIFICE OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SIN.

You should spend some time studying the ceremonial temple here on earth as it is a pattern of the Heavenly temple.

Leviticus 16:21
And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:
Exodus 25:8-10 King James Version (KJV)
8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.
Hebrews 8:2
A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.


Your substitution of this with the anti-christ interpertation is not supported by the rest of the Bible as it is all about JESUS CHRIST

 

[Original Happy Camper]

The opp mentions a gap and I do not know what that refers to but I disagree with he SDA regarding the 2300 year prophesy; I expect the 2300 years is the interval between the first and second coming of Christ.

Please provide scripture to support your "expect" reference the 2300 days.

 

[DavidPT]

You have the hierarchy reversed. Grammar is objective. It is governed by the duly recognized rules of grammar in every language.

Context, by contrast, is subjective. It is subject to potentially differing interpretations. It thus requires a benchmark to assist in arriving at its correct interpretation.

That benchmark is the objective rules of grammar. They are the first to be applied to the text. The resulting context is then analyzed to arrive at the final interpretation.

This process assures the greatest probability of consistent and reliable interpretation. It is particularly applicable to Daniel 9:24-27.

Maybe all of that is so, yet my analogy and your analogy both apparently showed that context determined this. But if not, what did? How was it that my analogy wasn't meaning the same President, but that yours was?

It is if they were His agents and instruments to accomplish His purposes.

The people of the prince refers to the Roman armies which were Messiah's agents and instruments to accomplish the judgment and destruction which He had prophesied. God's use of such instruments, and His characterization of them as "mine" even though pagan, can be found in several OT instances e.g.:

Jeremiah 25
9 Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the Lord, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations.

Jeremiah 43
10 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will send and take Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will set his throne upon these stones that I have hid; and he shall spread his royal pavilion over them.

God characterizes the pagan Nebuchadnezzar as "my servant" in using him and his armies against Judah and Egypt.

In the same way as Nebuchadnezzar, though a pagan, was God's servant in executing His judgment, so too were the pagan Roman armies Messiah's people in accomplishing His purposes.

I see your point via the examples in Jeremiah, but I'm still thinking that if the text were meaning Jesus' people, why not use a pronoun instead? Maybe something like this?


And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and his people shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


Had it said that instead, there wouldn't even be a debate here. The text instead said----and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

The prince that shall come can be meaning the prince in verse 25, where we know it is the Messiah in verse 26, or it can be an entirely different prince altogether. The analogy I used demonstrated it could be a different one altogether. The analogy you used demonstrated it could be the same prince. But had that part used a pronoun instead, like I pointed out, nothing would be in question then. It would be undeniable that it was referring to the Messiah then, meaning Jesus. So let's at least both admit either interpretation is possible. That doesn't indicate we are agreeing with one another then. It just means we are both being intellectually honest.

 

[DavidPT]

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary

As to this, we already know from verse 25 that there is a prince that shall come. Except this part is meaning after the prince has already come, the fact, in the same verse, that prince is cutoff. So why did the angel say that like he did, unless perhaps he was meaning the coming of a different prince altogether? And like I pointed out in my last post, if the point was that the prince in verse 25 was meant here, a pronoun would have made that perfectly clear, yet no pronoun was even used.


And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease

Let's assume this is meaning the Messiah. How did He fulfill the first half of confirming the covenant with many? Assuming meaning Him, wouldn't He have done that in person, IOW bodily present at the time? So what about the latter half? After His death and resurrection, where we know He showed back up bodily, thus bodily present at the time, did He hang around for another 3.5 years in order to finish confirming the covenant with many for the week? After all, the text says, whoever is being meant here, that that person themself confirms the covenant with many for one week. It doesn't say for part of the week though, it clearly says one week.

 

[DavidPT]

It has everything to do with Jesus Christ

Matthew 27:50-51 King James Version (KJV)
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

The veil was between the Holy and Most Holy of the temple, being rent in two the temple blood sacrafice was ceased as the blood of the Lamb of GOD replaced the CEREMONIAL SACRIFICE OF THE TEMPLE which always pointed forward to the SACRIFICE OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SIN.

You should spend some time studying the ceremonial temple here on earth as it is a pattern of the Heavenly temple.

Leviticus 16:21
And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:
Exodus 25:8-10 King James Version (KJV)
8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.
Hebrews 8:2
A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.


Your substitution of this with the anti-christ interpertation is not supported by the rest of the Bible as it is all about JESUS CHRIST

and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Yet all of the above is connected. Where the translators placed that first comma, the parts after that comma are referring back to the part before the comma. Nothing after that comma remotely fits with anything you submitted in this post. Maybe that perhaps indicates Jesus is not in view here then. And like I pointed out already, regardless some might disagree, all of verse 27 is fulfilled during the 70th week, so that includes the parts before and after that first comma in the passage above. The parts after that first comma don't fit with anything having to do with Christ's death and resurrection at the time, therefore someone else must be meant here then.

Also, no one is disputing anything you submitted in this post except for your first sentence----"It has everything to do with Jesus Christ".

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Can you please not kick up all the time EG.
One wonders if the act of aggrieved defensiveness is a cover for not having a proper answer. All the huffing and puffing, and 'oh boy-ing'. Come on man, you're a grown man!!

I read your answer but your reply to my question was skimpy to say the least. If you phrase your question clear and sharp, I will endeavour to answer, but I am moving towards cessation here

Same could be said about your continued refusal to answer, but thats beside the point,

Here is our conversations.

Ok, but you haven't really answered my earlier questions. Here is an easier one. Can you, please, Explain how you understand Daniel 9, in its entirety. Thanks

My reply

1st, I established th context of daniel 9

1. start with leviticus, which tells the children of isreal what will happen if they do not obey God, focus on the final form of discipline, where God said he would destroy the city and sanctuary and leave them desolate, then look at what babylon did in fulfillment of that discipline, which daniel partook of when he was taken from nim home almost 70 years earlier
Pay particular attention to this part of the passage

lev 26: 34 ‘and the land shall enjoy its sabbaths all the days of the desolation, while you are in your enemies’ land; then the land will rest and enjoy its sabbaths. 35 All the days of its desolation it will observe the rest which it did not observe on your sabbaths, while you were living on it.

2. Look what Jeremiah prophesied, a passage which daniel spoke of in the opening of daniel 9

First you have the warning, repent, and in doing so dwell in the land that God gave you and your fathers FOREVER! Further proof Isreal was given the land as an eternal promise)

Jeremiah 25:5–6 (NKJV): They said, ‘Repent now everyone of his evil way and his evil doings, and dwell in the land that the Lord has given to you and your fathers forever and ever.

Then He told them since they failed to yeild to the prophets he would punish them

Jeremiah 25:8–14 (NKJV): Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts: ‘Because you have not heard My words, 9 behold, I will send and take all the families of the north,’ says the Lord, ‘and Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant, and will bring them against this land, against its inhabitants, and against these nations all around, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, a hissing, and perpetual desolations. 10 Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones and the light of the lamp. 11 And this whole land shall be a desolation and an astonishment, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.
12 ‘Then it will come to pass, when seventy years are completed, that I will punish the king of Babylon and that nation, the land of the Chaldeans, for their iniquity,’ says the Lord; ‘and I will make it a perpetual desolation. 13 So I will bring on that land all My words which I have pronounced against it, all that is written in this book, which Jeremiah has prophesied concerning all the nations. 14 (For many nations and great kings shall be served by them also; and I will repay them according to their deeds and according to the works of their own hands.)’ ”

In other words, as told in leviticus, god will take the people and make them slaves, he will make the land desolate, and this punishment will last for 70 years. This wil include jerusalem and the temple, this was fullfilled in dan 1

Daniel 1:1–7 (NKJV): In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it. 2 And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with some of the articles of the house of God, which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the articles into the treasure house of his god.
3 Then the king instructed Ashpenaz, the master of his eunuchs, to bring some of the children of Israel and some of the king’s descendants and some of the nobles, 4 young men in whom there was no blemish, but good-looking, gifted in all wisdom, possessing knowledge and quick to understand, who had ability to serve in the king’s palace, and whom they might teach the language and literature of the Chaldeans. 5 And the king appointed for them a daily provision of the king’s delicacies and of the wine which he drank, and three years of training for them, so that at the end of that time they might serve before the king. 6 Now from among those of the sons of Judah were Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah. 7 To them the chief of the eunuchs gave names: he gave Daniel the name Belteshazzar; to Hananiah, Shadrach; to Mishael, Meshach; and to Azariah, Abed-Nego.

So you see, Daniel witnessed the desolation of jerusalem and the temple, and the casting out of the people into babylon as promised in Lev, prophesied by Jeremiah,

3. While in captivity, daniel studied Gods word, at about 70 years in, daniel was reading and came across the words of Jeremiah, knowing the 70 years was up, and his PEOPLE were still in sin, Daniel did what moses did and many other before him did and offered a prayer asking God for mercy

1. He said he understood

Daniel 9:1–2 (NKJV): In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the lineage of the Medes, who was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans—2 in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, understood by the books the number of the years specified by the word of the Lord through Jeremiah the prophet, that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

2. He made prayer of supplication. confessing his own sins and the sins of the people

Daniel 9:3–7 (NKJV): Then I set my face toward the Lord God to make request by prayer and supplications, with fasting, sackcloth, and ashes. 4 And I prayed to the Lord my God, and made confession,

we have sinned and committed iniquity, we have done wickedly and rebelled, even by departing from Your precepts and Your judgments. 6 Neither have we heeded Your servants the prophets, who spoke in Your name to our kings and our princes, to our fathers and all the people of the land. 7 O Lord, righteousness belongs to You, but to us shame of face, as it is this day—to the men of Judah, to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, those near and those far off in all the countries to which You have driven them, because of the unfaithfulness which they have committed against You.

3. He admitted, this disaster came ipon us bsed on gods word in the law, and jeremiahs prophecy

Daniel 9:11–15 (NKJV): Yes, all Israel has transgressed Your law, and has departed so as not to obey Your voice; therefore the curse and the oath written in the Law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against Him. 12 And He has confirmed His words, which He spoke against us and against our judges who judged us, by bringing upon us a great disaster; for under the whole heaven such has never been done as what has been done to Jerusalem.
13 “As it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us;

4. He admits, they did not do what they were supposed to do, and turn from thwir sins, and understand the truth, they were still in sin theirfor god has kep this disaster in mind because god is righteous,, when he says he will do something, he does it

Vs 13 continued
yet we have not made our prayer before the Lord our God, that we might turn from our iniquities and understand Your truth. 14 Therefore the Lord has kept the disaster in mind, and brought it upon us; for the Lord our God is righteous in all the works which He does, though we have not obeyed His voice.

5. Then daniel asks for mercy, for his people, for his land, for the holy city jerusalem, and the house of God.

Daniel 9:16–19 (NKJV): O Lord, according to all Your righteousness, I pray, let Your anger and Your fury be turned away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people are a reproach to all those around us. 17 Now therefore, our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and his supplications, and for the Lord’s sake cause Your face to shine on Your sanctuary, which is desolate. 18 O my God, incline Your ear and hear; open Your eyes and see our desolations, and the city which is called by Your name; for we do not present our supplications before You because of our righteous deeds, but because of Your great mercies. 19 O Lord, hear! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, listen and act! Do not delay for Your own sake, my God, for Your city and Your people are called by Your name.”

Then gabriel is sent to give him his answer

70 week (490 years) are given for his people (isreal) and holy city (jerusalem) and the sanctuary (temple)

This is the context of daniel 9 and Gabriels prophesy. The church is in. NO way part of any of these thngs, the things refere to the punishment god warned, he fortold would occure, he carried out and daniels plea for Gods mercy concerning Isreal and Jerusalem and the temple. NOTHING ELSE,

With this, you should have seen the answer to your question was completely answered, it was not as you called it “skimpy” and yet you wonder why i respond the way i do.

The fact is, as i asked, can you show me..

1. How did i get it wrong if i am wrong
2. Where is the church mentioned or infered in the context of daniel 9 based on these truths. Which you have yet to even show me i was wrong to begin with
3. If the church is not in context, then the answer to gabriels prophesy does not concern the church, ie, the end of rebellion of sin of propeshy and all,, are in refference to Isreal, and not the church. And to properly interpret what they mean would force us to see how they relate to isreal, and all of her peophesies as well.

Now can you respond or not?