Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

[DavidPT]

It has everything to do with Jesus Christ

Matthew 27:50-51 King James Version (KJV)
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

The veil was between the Holy and Most Holy of the temple, being rent in two the temple blood sacrafice was ceased as the blood of the Lamb of GOD replaced the CEREMONIAL SACRIFICE OF THE TEMPLE which always pointed forward to the SACRIFICE OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SIN.

You should spend some time studying the ceremonial temple here on earth as it is a pattern of the Heavenly temple.

Leviticus 16:21
And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:
Exodus 25:8-10 King James Version (KJV)
8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.
Hebrews 8:2
A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.


Your substitution of this with the anti-christ interpertation is not supported by the rest of the Bible as it is all about JESUS CHRIST

Do you then deny that there is also someone else that causes the daily to cease? Do you deny that Daniel 11:31 is meaning someone other than Christ?

 

[A71]

Yes I understand how you see Daniel.

The issue is really Christ. Once you see Christ, then the Church follows.

I see Christ in V24, which is why I asked about it.

And do not worry about me being evasive, I have no idea where you get this low opinion of human nature. If I don't know the answer, I'll let you know. But generally as regards Daniel, I feel I can answer.

Same could be said about your continued refusal to answer, but thats beside the point,

Here is our conversations.



My reply

1st, I established th context of daniel 9



With this, you should have seen the answer to your question was completely answered, it was not as you called it “skimpy” and yet you wonder why i respond the way i do.

The fact is, as i asked, can you show me..

1. How did i get it wrong if i am wrong
2. Where is the church mentioned or infered in the context of daniel 9 based on these truths. Which you have yet to even show me i was wrong to begin with
3. If the church is not in context, then the answer to gabriels prophesy does not concern the church, ie, the end of rebellion of sin of propeshy and all,, are in refference to Isreal, and not the church. And to properly interpret what they mean would force us to see how they relate to isreal, and all of her peophesies as well.

Now can you respond or not?

 

[DavidPT]

If it is my "theory", can you explain why it is found in the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America?

.

When I use terms such as 'theory', that applies to all of us. When it comes to Eschatology, pretty much all of our interpretations are theories if our interpretations are debatable, regardless where we initially adopted our interpretations. If you have numerous people interpreting the same passages, but not everyone coming to the same conclusions, how can theories not be involved?

 

[DavidPT]

Yes I understand how you see Daniel.

The issue is really Christ. Once you see Christ, then the Church follows.

I see Christ in V24, which is why I asked about it.

And do not worry about me being evasive, I have no idea where you get this low opinion of human nature. If I don't know the answer, I'll let you know. But generally as regards Daniel, I feel I can answer.

Of course Christ is in verse 24. Just because some of us are not seeing Christ in verse 27, that doesn't indicate He's not in verse 24 then either. But there are two comings of Christ though. And IMO both comings are found in Daniel 9, except the latter one is hidden in the text, but has been revealed by the first coming and what all that led to and still to lead to.

 

[jgr]

Oh boy.

Titus destroyed jerusalem, he was the prince who God used,

5e prince who is to come is the final roman prince, who daniel later said would commit the abomination by declairing himself to be god, commiting blasphemies, he will be killed by christ himself and cast into the bottomless pit

There is only one Individual identified as a prince in the passage.

It is Messiah the prince.

Yes, Titus was the Roman prince who God used as His agent of judgment and destruction, in his role as military leader of the Roman armies. He is a further example of how God has used pagan unbelievers to achieve His objectives.

Titus was fully under the command and control of Messiah the prince, to accomplish Messiah's purposes.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-the-70-weeks-of-dan-9.8077710/#post-73069437

Daniel 9:25
And thou shall know<3045>..............
3045 yada` yaw-dah' a primitive root; to know (properly, to ascertain by seeing); used in a great variety of senses, figuratively, literally, euphemistically and inferentially............

#3045 used 7 times in Daniel. Daniel 11 mentions it with "covenant"

Daniel 11:
32 And ones acting wickedly<7561> of a covenant, he shall pollute/profane<2610 in slickness/flatteries;
and peoples of ones knowing-of<3045> Elohim of him, they shall be steadfast/strong<2388, and have wrought<6213>.
38 And to 'Eloah of ones-strong<4581> on station of him, he shall glorify<3513>;
in gold, and in silver and in precious stone, and in desirable-things<2532>.

Gold, silver and precious stones are shown together in 7 verses, 2 of those in the NT

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=gold+silver+stones&t=NKJV#s=s_primary_0_1

1Corinthians 3:12
Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,

Revelation 18:12
“merchandise of gold and silver, precious stones and pearls,
fine linen and purple, silk and scarlet,
every kind of citron wood, every kind of object of ivory,
every kind of object of most precious wood, bronze, iron, and marble;


.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes I understand how you see Daniel.

The issue is really Christ. Once you see Christ, then the Church follows.

I see Christ in V24, which is why I asked about it.

And do not worry about me being evasive, I have no idea where you get this low opinion of human nature. If I don't know the answer, I'll let you know. But generally as regards Daniel, I feel I can answer.

In other words, you can not answer, yet demand i answer you, i have played these games with far to many people, i refuse to do it here

Thanks, but i think we need to stop here, if i respond to any of your posts from now on, they are for benefit of others.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is only one Individual identified as a prince in the passage.

It is Messiah the prince.

Yes, Titus was the Roman prince who God used as His agent of judgment and destruction, in his role as military leader of the Roman armies. He is a further example of how God has used pagan unbelievers to achieve His objectives.

Titus was fully under the command and control of Messiah the prince, to accomplish Messiah's purposes.

Thats your opinion,
i disagree, as do many ohers, but thats fine

 

[jgr]

Huge problem

Obama already came and went, so the president who is to come could not be him,

Otherwise, you would just say “president obama shall have his people not wear MAGA caps”

No problem at all.

"Shall come" and "shall be" are future tense, written before the stated events occurred.

 

[DavidPT]

Matthew 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.


Here is a passage pretty much everyone is familiar with. I find verse 22 of particular interest. It is clearly connected to the 70 weeks of Daniel. With that in mind, one possible interpretation might be this. Since the 70 weeks are not entirely fulfilled yet, this means to continue forgiving your brother until I return after the 70th week. Another possible interpretation is this, this one meaning the ones who see no gap in the 70 weeks. Remember what I accomplished during the 70 weeks. The same way I forgave you, you in turn are to forgive others the same amount of times. IOW indefinitely.

 

[jgr]

Thats your opinion,
i disagree, as do many ohers, but thats fine

Dialogue is always beneficial.

Sincere blessings to you.

 

[DavidPT]

There is only one Individual identified as a prince in the passage.

That is if one doesn't use Scripture to interpret Scripture, like the following unrelated example.

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

The only kings mentioned in the text prior to this verse are the 4 kings of the four kingdoms mentioned. So it has to be referring to them then, correct? Not if one uses Scripture to interpret Scripture.


Daniel 2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

If we go to Revelation 17---

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.


If these are the same 10 toes found in Daniel 2, where many of us take them to be, this verse indicates they are kings. That would make the grammatical antecedent being the 10 toes and not the 4 kings with the 4 kingdoms instead. And besides, the latter interpretation is not even possible since these kings don't all reign at the same time, and that the text requires that the kings meant, that they are all kings at the same time. The 10 toes satisfies the requirements then.

So in the same way, if one uses Scripture to interpret Scripture, such as using Daniel 11 to interpret Daniel 9, the only prince mentioned doesn't just have to be the prince meant in verse 25. It could be meaning the prince in Daniel 11.

 

[BABerean2]

When I use terms such as 'theory', that applies to all of us. When it comes to Eschatology, pretty much all of our interpretations are theories if our interpretations are debatable, regardless where we initially adopted our interpretations. If you have numerous people interpreting the same passages, but not everyone coming to the same conclusions, how can theories not be involved?

Anyone who sees a prophecy about Christ, and denies His part in fulfilling the New Covenant in Matthew 26:28 cannot ever get it right.

.

 

[jgr]

That is if one doesn't use Scripture to interpret Scripture, like the following unrelated example.

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

The only kings mentioned in the text prior to this verse are the 4 kings of the four kingdoms mentioned. So it has to be referring to them then, correct? Not if one uses Scripture to interpret Scripture.


Daniel 2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

If we go to Revelation 17---

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.


If these are the same 10 toes found in Daniel 2, where many of us take them to be, this verse indicates they are kings. That would make the grammatical ancedote being the 10 toes and not the 4 kings with the 4 kingdoms instead. And besides, the latter interpretation is not even possible since these kings don't all reign at the same time, and that the text requires that the kings meant, that they are all kings at the same time. The 10 toes satisfies the requirements then.

So in the same way, if one uses Scripture to interpret Scripture, such as using Daniel 11 to interpret Daniel 9, the only prince mentioned doesn't just have to be the prince meant in verse 25. It could be meaning the prince in Daniel 11.

Where in Daniel 11 is Messiah the prince mentioned?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-the-70-weeks-of-dan-9.8077710/#post-73069437

Daniel 9:25
And thou shall know<3045>........

9:25
.......and shall be intelligent<7919>..............
7919 sakal saw-kal' a primitive root; to be (causatively, make or act) circumspect and hence, intelligent:--consider, expert, instruct, prosper, (deal) prudent(-ly),..............

#7917 used in 4 chapters of Daniel:
Dan 1:4, 17 9:13, 22, 25, 11:33, 35 and 12:3, 10
>
Daniel 11:33
And ones being intelligent<7919> of people they shall cause to understand to many-ones,
and they stumble<3782> in sword and in blaze<3852>, in captivity<7628> and in plunder<961> days
[Sword and captive/captivity are mentioned together in only 2 verses of the NT:]
Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive<163> into all the nations............
Revelation 13:10
If any to-captivity<161> into captivity<161> is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints.

Last time used:

Amos 5:13
Therefore is the intelligent<9719> at that time silent, For an evil time it is.

The greek equivalent appears to be #4908 Used 4 times in the NT

4908. sunetos soon-et'-os from 4920; mentally put (or putting) together, i.e. sagacious:--prudent. Compare 5429.

Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus answered and said, "I thank Thee, O Father! Lord! of the heaven and of the land,
Because Thou hast hid these things from the wise and intelligent<4908> ones,
and hast revealed them to babes".
Luke 10:21
In that hour [He/Jesus] exults<21> in the Holy Spirit and said, "I thank Thee, O Father! Lord! of the heaven and the land,
that thou hast hid these-things from the wise and intelligent<4908>
and hast revealed them to babes, yea Father; that thus it became a delight before Thee".
1 Corinthians 1:19
For it has been written, 'I shall be destroying the wisdom<4678> of the wise<4680>,
and the understanding of the intelligent<4908> I shall bring to naught<114>'

 

[DavidPT]

Where in Daniel 11 is Messiah the prince mentioned?

Why would I think He is mentioned in that chapter? I'm arguing for a 2nd prince in Daniel 9:26, where I tend to conclude it is meaning the king of the north in Daniel 11. I realize that one is called a king not a prince, yet Jesus is called both, as an example. Apparently that means these titles can be used interchangeably at times then.

Actually though, now that I think of it, Jesus can be found in Daniel 11, but He is hidden in that chapter.

Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

If this is meaning the AC like I tend to conclude, his end would then involve Christ making an end to it.

 

[DavidPT]

9:25
.......and shall be intelligent<7919>..............
7919 sakal saw-kal' a primitive root; to be (causatively, make or act) circumspect and hence, intelligent:--consider, expert, instruct, prosper, (deal) prudent(-ly),..............

#7917 used in 4 chapters of Daniel:
Dan 1:4, 17 9:13, 22, 25, 11:33, 35 and 12:3, 10
>
Daniel 11:33
And ones being intelligent<7919> of people they shall cause to understand to many-ones,
and they stumble<3782> in sword and in blaze<3852>, in captivity<7628> and in plunder<961> days
[Sword and captive/captivity are mentioned together in only 2 verses of the NT:]
Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive<163> into all the nations............
Revelation 13:10
If any to-captivity<161> into captivity<161> is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints.

Last time used:

Amos 5:13
Therefore is the intelligent<9719> at that time silent, For an evil time it is.

The greek equivalent appears to be #4908 Used 4 times in the NT

4908. sunetos soon-et'-os from 4920; mentally put (or putting) together, i.e. sagacious:--prudent. Compare 5429.

Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus answered and said, "I thank Thee, O Father! Lord! of the heaven and of the land,
Because Thou hast hid these things from the wise and intelligent<4908> ones,
and hast revealed them to babes".
Luke 10:21
In that hour [He/Jesus] exults<21> in the Holy Spirit and said, "I thank Thee, O Father! Lord! of the heaven and the land,
that thou hast hid these-things from the wise and intelligent<4908>
and hast revealed them to babes, yea Father; that thus it became a delight before Thee".
1 Corinthians 1:19
For it has been written, 'I shall be destroying the wisdom<4678> of the wise<4680>,
and the understanding of the intelligent<4908> I shall bring to naught<114>'

Have you done a search for 'covenant' in this thread? It's interesting where that Hebrew word is found in the book of Daniel in particular, then observing the contexts involving that word. My Strong's indicates briyth is found in the following passages in the book of Daniel. Dan 9:4, Dan 9:27, Dan 11:22, Dan 11:28, Dan 11:30, Dan 11:32.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-the-70-weeks-of-dan-9.8077710/#post-73069437

Dan 9:25
And thou shall know<3045>..............
.

Dan 9:25
.......and shall be intelligent<7919>..............

..........from going forth<4161>........

Used only in 1 verse of Daniel.

4161 mowtsa' mo-tsaw' or motsai {mo-tsaw'}; from 3318; a going forth, i.e. (the act) an egress, or (the place) an exit; hence, a source or product; specifically, dawn, the rising of the sun (the East),

........a word<1697>

Used in 4 chapters of Daniel
Dan 1, 9, 10 and 12.

1697 dabar daw-baw' from 1696; a word; by implication, a matter (as spoken of) or thing; adverbially, a cause:--commandment, X commune(-ication), + concern(-ing), + confer, counsel, + dearth, decree, deed....

Last 2 times in Daniel:

Daniel 12:
4 And thou Daniel, stop-up!<5640>! the words<1697> and seal!<2856> the book/scroll<5612>till time of end.
Many do go to and fro, and knowledge is multiplied<7235>.’
9 And He is saying ‘Go! Daniel that stopped-up and being sealed the words<1697> till time of end;

 

[jgr]

Why would I think He is mentioned in that chapter? I'm arguing for a 2nd prince in Daniel 9:26, where I tend to conclude it is meaning the king of the north in Daniel 11. I realize that one is called a king not a prince, yet Jesus is called both, as an example. Apparently that means these titles can be used interchangeably at times then.

Actually though, now that I think of it, Jesus can be found in Daniel 11, but He is hidden in that chapter.

Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

If this is meaning the AC like I tend to conclude, his end would then involve Christ making an end to it.

If Messiah the prince cannot be identified in Daniel 11, then there is nothing to connect Him with Messiah the prince in Daniel 9.

 

[Jipsah]

I do not listen to men

Tell enough about you doctrine, and I'll tell you which men you got it from. Just sayin'