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Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by LittleLambofJesus, Aug 15, 2018.

Is there a "gap" in the 70 weeks of Daniel 9"

  1. No

    50.0%
  2. Yes

    45.2%
  3. I don't know

    1.6%
  4. Other

    1.6%
  5. Fully fulfilled

    3.2%
  6. Half complete Half Future

    1.6%
  7. All Future

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Member

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    Maybe we can start here
    Can you tell me in my response you supposedly read where i quoted or mentioned jeremiah 3 or daniel 7

    I did not, so you can see why i questioned if you read it, your still not even responding to it.

    Can you please reread what i posted and answer my question
     
  2. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    I like this translation. This indicates to me that the city and the sanctuary don't have to necessarily be taken in the literal sense, which is pretty much my position.
     
  3. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-the-70-weeks-of-dan-9.8077710/#post-73069437
    .........and to seal up<2856> vision<2377> and prophet<5030>,................

    .....and to seal up<2856>
    2856 chatham khaw-tham' a primitive root; to close up; especially to seal:--make an end, mark, seal (up), stop.

    Shown earlier:

    ....and prophet<5030>,................

    5030
    nabiy' naw-bee' from 5012; a prophet or (generally) inspired man:--prophecy, that prophesy, prophet.

    The exact word form of #H5030 occurs in 6 other verses in OT

    1 King 13:11, Isaiah 3:2, 9:15, 28:7 and Lamentations 2:20

    Isaiah 9:15
    The ancient and honourable, he is the head;
    and the prophet<5030> that teacheth lies, he is the tail.

    Lam 2:20

    See, O Yahweh, and look attentively, To whom Thou hast acted thus,
    Do women eat their fruit, infants of a handbreadth?

    Slain in the sanctuary of the Lord are priest and prophet<2050>?

    Greek equivalent #G4396......

    4396. prophetes prof-ay'-tace from a compound of 4253 and 5346; a foreteller ("prophet"); by analogy, an inspired speaker; by extension, a poet:--prophet.


    Let's use Matthew 24 for "prophet" since Jesus mentions him:

    Matthew 24: [Mark 13:14]

    15 'Whenever, therefore, ye may see the abomination of the desolation, that was spoken of through Daniel the prophet<4396>, standing in the holy place (whoever is reading let him observe)

    24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false-prophets<5578> and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    Revelation 20:10
    and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false-prophet,
    and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.

    Isaiah 9:15
    The ancient and honourable, he is the head;
    and the prophet<5030> that teacheth lies, he is the tail.


    Single word "tail" is mentioned only 1 time in the NT:

    Revelation 12:4
    and his tail doth draw the third of the stars of the heaven, and he did cast them to the earth;

    and the dragon did stand before the woman who is about to bring forth, that when she may bring forth, her child he may devour;








     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
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  4. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In other words, there were no anointings.
     
  5. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Good point. I too have looked at that way. I guess it slipped my mind then. I'm not sure as to why it did, since everything in that particular context would have nothing to do with anyone living during the first century, since per my understanding, I place the time of the AOD at the end of the age, where I pretty much conclude it is referring to the 42 month of the beast per Revelation 13. The 42 month reign of the beast never happened in the first century.
     
  6. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    EG, until you learn to spell Israel correctly, I refuse to read your posts.

    And as for the colorful and lengthy word expositions of LLoJ and also BaB's repeated cut and pastes, they just waste space.

    Sorry to seem so curmudgeonly, but these things detract from genuine discussion and are not helpful for our understanding of the Prophesies.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
  7. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Ooops, I skipped #H2377 in previous post

    .........and to seal up<2856> vision<2377> and prophet<5030>,................

    2377 chazown khaw-zone' from 2372; a sight (mentally), i.e. a dream, revelation, or oracle:--vision.


    Also used in Daniel Chapts 10, 11, 12

    1st time used:

    YLT)

    1Samuel 3:1

    And the youth Samuel is serving Yahweh before Eli,
    and the word of Yahweh hath been precious in those days -- there is no vision<2377> broken forth.

    Last time used

    Habakkuk 2:3

    For yet the vision<2377> is for appointed-time<4150>, And it breatheth to the end, and doth not lie,
    If it tarry, wait for it, For surely it cometh, it is not late.


    It appears the greek equivalent is #g3705, which comes from #g3708...


    3705. horama hor'-am-ah from 3708; something gazed at, i.e. a spectacle (especially supernatural):--sight, vision.
    3706. horasis hor'-as-is from 3708; the act of gazing, i.e. (externally) an aspect or (internally) an inspired appearance:--sight, vision.
    3707. horatos hor-at-os' from 3708; gazed at, i.e. (by implication) capable of being seen:--visible.
    3708. horao hor-ah'-o properly, to stare at (compare 3700), i.e. (by implication) to discern clearly (physically or mentally); by extension, to attend to; by Hebraism, to experience; passively, to appear:--behold, perceive, see, take heed.


    #3705 is used 1 time in Gospels[transfiguration] and rest in Acts

    Matthew 17:9
    And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, "Tell the vision<3705> to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead".

    Last time used

    Acts 18:9
    Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision<3705>, "Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace":

    Another form of #g3708 is this amazing prophecy in Acts 2:17 taken from Joel 2:28

    Acts 2:17
    And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
    and your young men shall see visions<3706>, and your old men shall dream dreams;

    #3706 is used in 2 other verses, both in Revelation

    Revelation 4:3
    And he that sat was to-vision<3706> like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, likewise to-vision<3706> an emerald.

    Revelation 9:17

    And this is how I saw the horses in my vision<3706> and those who rode them: they wore breastplates the color of fire and of sapphire[fn] and of sulfur.............






     
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  8. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Daniel 9:24 Seventy sevens are decreed for your people and your holy city – to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, vision and prophecy ratified and the Most Holy place anointed.
    Daniel 9:25-27 Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Anointed One, the ruler comes – there will be seven sevens and sixty two sevens. It will be rebuilt with streets and drains, but in troubled times. After the 62 sevens, the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come, will destroy the city and sanctuary. The end will come like a flood. War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. He will confirm a covenant with the many for one ‘seven’. In the middle of the seven, he will put an end to the sacrifice and offering. In the Temple, he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out upon him.
    Reference REB, NIV, KJV.

    Verse 24 - The Angel Gabriel’s message for the end of this age:

    1/To complete and finalize the transgressions of the wicked peoples.[Time of the Gentiles]

    2/ To make an end to disobedience against God. [Punishment of His enemies]

    3/ To make reconciliation for iniquity. [Forgiveness for His people]

    4/ To usher in the age of Righteousness. [The Christians– ‘a light to the nations’]

    5/ To fulfil prophesy. [The promises to the Patriarchs and to Israel]

    6/ To sanctify the Temple. [The Third Temple, built by the people of New Israel]


    Verse 25: 70 times 7 = 490 years. The first 7 ‘weeks’ = 49 years, starts from the commandment to rebuild Jerusalem in the 20th year of the reign of Artaxerxes. This was in 445BC. Jerusalem’s walls, streets, etc were built ‘even in troublous times’, in approx. 48/49 years.

    Verse 26 Then another 62 ‘weeks’ = 434 years, plus the 49, makes a total of 483 prophetic years until ‘Messiah, the Prince, is cut off’.

    There shall be nothing for Him’, means that at that time He did not receive the Millennium Kingdom. ‘The people of the ruler to come, will destroy Jerusalem, including the Temple’, refers to the Roman destruction in 69/70AD. This gives us the clue to the origin of the Anti Christ, who will lead a restored Roman Empire.

    Then, there has been a gap of nearly 2000 years, till the present day.

    The end period; the 70th of the 7 ‘weeks’ = 7 years will be made up of 2 periods of 1260 days each. It will be the closing time of this age, ‘the end shall be with a flood’. Flood is better translated as – overflowing. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

    Verse 27 The Anti Christ will make a 7 year treaty with the ‘many. That is, the holy people of God: every born again Christian, living in their own Land. There will be a faithful remnant who will oppose this agreement, so this treaty is made with many, but not all of His people, Israel. Daniel 11:32, Isaiah 28:15. The Anti Christ will break this after 1260 days, which will commence the Great Tribulation. He sets up his own image in the Temple, then after the final 1260 days, he will meet his end. Daniel 11:45, Revelation 19:20.
     
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  9. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
    26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.



    Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

    This belongs with the first 69 weeks.


    And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself

    This leads to Christ's death and resurrection, where that then led to His ascension back into heaven, which means He has to return eventually.

    and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


    This belongs with the final week. These things are fulfilled at the end of this age, because at the end of these things it leads to Christ's 2nd coming. The only logical way this is possible, there has to be a gap between the 69th and 70th week. But the way some folks interpret these things, this latter led to the events of 70 AD instead. But what significant thing did the events of 70 AD lead to? Nothing that I can think of. Which has more significance at the end of it? Something that leads to nothing significant? Or something that leads to the 2nd coming?
     
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  10. DaDad

    DaDad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Would everyone PLEASE stop using a number system which DOESN'T EXIST. No one buys ~a pair of shoes which cost 7 and 62 dollars plus tax~.

    The RSV reflects the PROPER Scripture Verse:

    25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off ...

    Thus there are TWO distinct durations of time, and TWO "anointed ones"/"messiahs" (small "a" / small "m").


    And AFTER resolving what the text actually says, THEN you may attempt the CORRECT interpretation.

    Whew,
    DaDad
     
  11. DaDad

    DaDad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Speak for yourself.
    Thanks,
    DaDad
     
  12. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    In the parable of the virgins from Matthew chapter 25 Christ said they must be ready before the Bridegroom comes.

    In Luke 21:24-28 we find that "the times of the Gentiles" comes to fullness at the Second Coming of Christ.

    He return "in flaming fire" in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

    Based on these passages, there will be no second chances, at His Second Coming.

    The time for taking the Gospel to the Jewish people is now.

    .
     
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  13. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    There are two princes in the texts of Daniel 9:25-27, but only one of them is anointed, the other isn't. Between the first week until the 69th week, there is only one anointed prince in the text, not two. The 2nd prince comes after the anointed one is cutoff.

    But let's assume you are correct instead.

    Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
    26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

    And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off---per your understanding how did this anointed one get inserted into the text out of thin air, so to speak? Where is the initial introduction of this one if not in verse 25?
     
  14. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-the-70-weeks-of-dan-9.8077710/#post-73069437
    #h4886 used on 1 time in Daniel.

    There are various forms of this Hebrew word, so best to use a lexicon.
    I like this one:

    http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?file=hebrewlexicon&isindex=4886

    ............and to anoint<4886> holy<6944> of holies<6944>.

    4886 mashach maw-shakh' a primitive root; to rub with oil, i.e. to anoint; by implication, to consecrate; also to paint:--anoint, paint.

    1st time used:

    Genesis 31:
    11 and the Messenger of the Elohim saith unto me in the dream, "Jacob! and I say, "Here am I".
    13 I am the 'El of Bethel where thou hast anointed<4886> a standing pillar, where thou hast vowed a vow to Me;
    Now, arise, go out from this land and turn back unto the land of thy birth.'

    Last time used

    Amos 6:6
    Who are drinking with bowls of wine, And with chief perfumes anoint<4886> themselves,
    And have not been pained for the breach of Joseph.

    Equivalent greek word:

    218. aleipho al-i'-fo from 1 (as particle of union) and the base of 3045; to oil (with perfume):--anoint.

    #218 used in 6 verses of the NT.

    1st time used:

    Matthew 6:17
    16‘And when ye may fast, be ye not as the hypocrites, of sour countenances, for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear to men fasting; verily I say to you, that they have their reward.
    17‘But thou, fasting, anoint<218> thy head, and wash thy face,

    Last time used:

    James 5:14
    is any infirm among you? let him call for the elders of the assembly, and let them pray over him, having anointed<218> him with oil, in the name of the Lord,
     
  15. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    If I were buying two items at the store, one for 7 dollars and another for 62 dollars, the clerk would ask for 70 dollars. And the receipt would list the two items separately, with the total as 70 dollars.

    So, I am not seeing your point. And if I wanted to return one item, it would not be contingent on the other item. I would explain the one item, what is involved with it.
    ___________________________________________________________

    The pair of shoes is a poor analogy, because a pair of shoes are equal size to begin with. No pair of shoes would be, one shoe size 7 and the other size 62, or some other unequal size each.
     
  16. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    This is the final part of Daniel 9:24

    I will start on Dan 9:25 next.
    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-the-70-weeks-of-dan-9.8077710/#post-73069437


    and to anoint<4886> holy<6944> of holy-ones<6944>.

    6944 qodesh ko'-desh from 6942; a sacred place or thing; rarely abstract, sanctity:--consecrated (thing), dedicated (thing), hallowed (thing), holiness, (X most) holy (X day, portion, thing), saint, sanctuary.

    #h6944 is used in 10 verses of Daniel, chapts 8, 9, 11 and 12.

    Exodus 3:5
    And He saith, "Come not near hither: cast! thy sandals from off thy feet,
    for the place on which thou art standing is holy<6944> ground.'"

    Last time used:

    Malachi 2:11

    Dealt treacherously hath Judah,
    And abomination<8441> hath been done in Israel and in Jerusalem.
    For Judah hath polluted/profained<2490> the sanctuary/holy-place<6944> of Yahweh that He hath loved,
    and hath married the daughter of a strange god
    .
     
  17. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The Gospel was taken "first" to the Jewish people during the first century, before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles.
    This was the 70th week of Daniel.


    Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
    Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
    Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

    Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


    Gal 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
    Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
    Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
    Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
    Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.



    Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner


    The covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27 is the covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28.


    1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

    .
     
  18. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Antichrist is nowhere to be seen in the passage.
     
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  19. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    None of this can work though if all of verse 27 is the 70th week. If you,too, thought all of that verse was the 70th week, you, like me, would be concluding Christ can't fit that verse then.

    IOW----and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate---this can't fit with a 7 year period that allegedly involves Christ's death and resurrection. So if these things, too, occur during the 70th week, how does one reconcile that with that of Christ's death and resurrection happening during this same 7 year period?
     
  20. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    At least you proved it via this opinion. :)

    But if all of verse 27 is the 70th week, no way the AC cannot be in that verse then.
     
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