Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

[DavidPT]

Ok, except we are told that the 490 years do not simply mark a period of punishment, they also will usher in the following changes. How do you explain these changes?

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

One of those changes is this----and to bring in everlasting righteousness. Compare that to what Peter said per the following.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


Why though if everlasting righteousness has already been brought in? Everlasting righteousness wasn't good enough then, so even better righteousness is needed instead, the righteousness that comes when the NHNE arrives?

 

[DavidPT]

This statement is not found in the KJV of the Bible.

PLease provide scripture for this statement

NM

 

[DavidPT]

I really like that "chart with no gaps", Original Happy Camper -- thx.

I just don't understand 1844 as the last entry

I looked at that chart myself. I fail to see how it proves there is no gap between the 69th and 70th week though. We still have to consider context. The context of ALL of verse 27 in Daniel 9 is the 70th week. If Christ is meant in that context, some of what is stated in that passage couldn't possibly fit then, thus a contradiction.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Time to go and worship the LORD JESUS CHRIST THE CREATOR on HIS HOLY SABBATH DAY

God bless you all

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-the-70-weeks-of-dan-9.8077710/#post-73069437

Daniel 9:24 ‘Seventy<7657> sevens<7620>

Daniel 9:24: .......are determined/decreed/divided<2852> upon thy people<5971>,..........

Daniel 9:24
...............,finish/restrain<3607> the transgression<6588>.........

Daniel 9:24
to finish/stop-up<3607> the transgression<6588>,

Daniel 9:24
...........and to seal-up/end<2856> of sins<2403>,.........

and to cover/make-atonement<3722> iniquity<5771>

.....and to-bring-in<935>
righteousness<6664> age-during<5769>,...........

and to-bring-in<935>

935 bow' bo a primitive root; to go or come (in a wide variety of applications),bring (forth, in, into,.....

The exact form of #H935 is used in 1 other verse:

Nehemiah 10:35
35 and to bring in<935> the first fruits of our ground, and the first fruits of all fruit of every tree, year by year, to the house of Jehovah,

and to-bring-in<935>
righteousness<6664> age-during<5769>

6664 tsedeq tseh'-dek from 6663; the right (natural, moral or legal); also (abstractly) equity or (figuratively) prosperity.......

Used only 1 time in Daniel.

Last time used:

Zephaniah 2:3
Seek! Yahweh, all ye humble of the land, who His judgment have done, seek ye! righteousness<6664>, seek! humility.
It may be ye are hidden in a day of the fury/anger<639> of Yahweh.

The equivalent greek word appears to be G1343

Matthew 3:15
But Jesus answering said to him, "Suffer now, for thus it is becoming to us to fulfill all righteousness<1343>"
Then he doth suffer Him.

Used 2 times in Revelation

Revelation 19:11
And I saw the heaven having been opened, and lo, a white horse, and he who is sitting upon it is called Faithful and True, a
nd in righteousness<1343> doth he judge and war,
Revelation 22:11
He who acts unjustly, let him act unjustly still. He who is filthy, let him be filthy still. He who is righteous, let him do righteousness <1343> still. He who is holy, let him be holy still."

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Time to go and worship the LORD JESUS CHRIST THE CREATOR on HIS HOLY SABBATH DAY
God bless you all

Happy Sabbath

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/matt-24-20-pray-your-flight-not-be-on-a-sabbath.8076025/
Matt 24:20 Pray your flight not be on a sabbath

Matthew 24:
19 But woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days!
20 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on a sabbath:
21 for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[DavidPT]

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-the-70-weeks-of-dan-9.8077710/#post-73069437





and to-bring-in<935>
righteousness<6664> age-during<5769>,

and to-bring-in<935>

935 bow' bo a primitive root; to go or come (in a wide variety of applications),bring (forth, in, into,.....

The exact form of #H935 is used in 1 other verse:

Nehemiah 10:35
35 and to bring in<935> the first fruits of our ground, and the first fruits of all fruit of every tree, year by year, to the house of Jehovah,

and to-bring-in<935>
righteousness<6664> age-during<5769>

6664 tsedeq tseh'-dek from 6663; the right (natural, moral or legal); also (abstractly) equity or (figuratively) prosperity.......

Used only 1 time in Daniel.

Last time used:

Zephaniah 2:3
Seek! Yahweh, all ye humble of the land, who His judgment have done, seek ye! righteousness<6664>, seek! humility.
It may be ye are hidden in a day of the fury/anger<639> of Yahweh.

The equivalent greek word appears to be G1343

Matthew 3:15
But Jesus answering said to him, "Suffer now, for thus it is becoming to us to fulfill all righteousness<1343>"
Then he doth suffer Him.

Used 2 times in Revelation

Revelation 19:11
And I saw the heaven having been opened, and lo, a white horse, and he who is sitting upon it is called Faithful and True, a
nd in righteousness<1343> doth he judge and war,
Revelation 22:11
He who acts unjustly, let him act unjustly still. He who is filthy, let him be filthy still. He who is righteous, let him do righteousness <1343> still. He who is holy, let him be holy still."

.

As to everlasting righteousness being brought in, in order for to be of any value, it has to be to the benefit of all. In this present age righteousness is not being done throughout the earth. During the NHNE though, it will be. IMO, that is when everlasting righteousness is brought in, and besides, it fully agrees with this, wherein dwelleth righteousness---where it will then be the case forevermore from that point forward.

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.



Where can everlasting righteousness be found in any of this? This doesn't sound like a place and time, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-the-70-weeks-of-dan-9.8077710/#post-73069437

.....and to-bring-in<935>
righteousness<6664> age-during<5769>,...........

Daniel 9:24
........and to-bring-in<935>
righteousness<6664> age-during<5769>,..................

age-during<5769>

5769 `owlam o-lawm' or lolam {o-lawm'}; from 5956; properly, concealed, i.e. the vanishing point; generally, time out of mind (past or future), i.e. (practically) eternity, continuance, eternal,..........

#H5769 used in 4 verses of Daniel.
3 of those in Daniel 12

Daniel 12:
2 ‘And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches — to abhorrence age-during<5769>.
3 And those teaching do shine as the brightness of the expanse, and those justifying the multitude as stars for age<5769> and perpetually<5703>

7 And I hear the one clothed in linen, who [is] upon the waters of the flood, and he doth lift up his right hand and his left unto the heavens, and sweareth by Him Who is living to the ages<5769>,
that ‘After a time, times, and a half, and at the completion of the scattering of the power of the holy people, finished are all these.’
[Revelation 10:5-7]

The equivalent greek word appears to be #G165/166

165. aion ahee-ohn' from the same as 104; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future)............

Revelation 10:
5 And the messenger whom I saw standing upon the sea, and upon the land, did lift up his hand to the heaven,
6 and did swear in Him Who doth live into the ages<165> of the ages<165>, who did create the heaven and the things in it, and the land and the things in it, and the sea and the things in it — that time shall not be yet,
7 but in the days of the voice of the seventh Messenger, when he may be about to be trumpeting,
the mystery of God may be finished, as He did declare to His own servants, to the Prophets.

.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

Such esoteric questions about prophecy might be interesting but they have no direct impact on one's Christian life. Not worth arguing about. And those who try to pin down future dates have already disbelieved the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:36 and Matthew 25:13 and simply cannot be trusted to provide spiritual or rational interpretations.

 

[A71]

Christ is the King of Righteousness, and his Kingdom is the Kingdom of Righteousness. Righteousness did not come by the Law, it came by Christ.
Do you not understand the Gospel?

One of those changes is this----and to bring in everlasting righteousness. Compare that to what Peter said per the following.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


Why though if everlasting righteousness has already been brought in? Everlasting righteousness wasn't good enough then, so even better righteousness is needed instead, the righteousness that comes when the NHNE arrives?

 

[A71]

Such esoteric questions about prophecy might be interesting but they have no direct impact on one's Christian life. Not worth arguing about. And those who try to pin down future dates have already disbelieved the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:36 and Matthew 25:13 and simply cannot be trusted to provide spiritual or rational interpretations.

I disagree. When you spin out the fundamental misunderstandings, they turn into rather loopy projections about the modern world.
For instance I have heard sincere Christians getting very excited about the murder of Palestinians, who they regard as vermin, notwithstanding that some of them are actually Christian.

These kinds of attitudes will not witness to non-believers, and also create huge problems within the Church. Hearing such things has shocked me in the past, and made me question a lot of things. Can I say, they rattled my foundations a bit?

I agree with your other statements, but disagree with the idea that understanding prophecy, and indeed God's Word generally, is not important.

 

[DavidPT]

Christ is the King of Righteousness, and his Kingdom is the Kingdom of Righteousness. Righteousness did not come by the Law, it came by Christ.
Do you not understand the Gospel?

What about Peter then? Did he understand the gospel then since he was still looking for a place, wherein dwelleth righteousness? Why was he still looking for it if it had already been brought in?

 

[Douggg]

Christ is the King of Righteousness, and his Kingdom is the Kingdom of Righteousness. Righteousness did not come by the Law, it came by Christ.
Do you not understand the Gospel?

The 70 weeks are determined on Jerusalem and Daniel's people. Neither one has embraced the Gospel yet... proving the 70 weeks are not complete.

 

[DavidPT]

Christ is the King of Righteousness, and his Kingdom is the Kingdom of Righteousness. Righteousness did not come by the Law, it came by Christ.
Do you not understand the Gospel?

Psalms 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.


This right here wasn't already true then, before there even were 70 weeks to fulfill? If His righteousness is already an everlasting righteousness, why then does everlasting righteousness need to be brought in once the 70 weeks are fulfilled? My guess is that unrighteousness was filling the earth instead, but once the NHNE begin at Christ's 2nd coming, righteousness will then fill the earth instead.

 

[A71]

@DavidPT, @Douggg

I am afraid I agree with Dr Bruce at this juncture. If you have not grasped the foundations of the Gospel, you cannot delve into the meatier parts of the Word.

 

[DavidPT]

The 70 weeks are determined on Jerusalem and Daniel's people. Neither one has embraced the Gospel yet... proving the 70 weeks are not complete.

This is not entirely true though. There have been numerous of Daniel's people who have embraced the gospel, just not all of them though. That's not the same as saying none of them have. I'm not arguing for no gap then.

Or maybe it's just the way you put it that makes it sound like something you perhaps weren't meaning?

 

[Anto9us]

Dan 2:44
And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

This to me is enigmatic -- both already here -- as well as coming.
How are "all these kingdoms" going to be revived so as to be broken and consumed?
I have heard some talk about a "revived Roman empire" yet to come, but the above verse might mean a revival of all four kings Nebuchadnezzar saw in his dream, including himself as the first one.

In some sense, a kingdom of God has been set up already in the days of the original Roman empire

 

[DavidPT]

@DavidPT, @Douggg

I am afraid I agree with Dr Bruce at this juncture. If you have not grasped the foundations of the Gospel, you cannot delve into the meatier parts of the Word.

Sounds pretty judgmental then. I understand far more than you give me credit for. Just because I reason something differently than you might, that hardly indicates I cannot delve into the meatier parts of the Word. That comes off as rather arrogant IMO.

 

[DavidPT]

Dan 2:44
And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

This to me is enigmatic -- both already here -- as well as coming.
How are "all these kingdoms" going to be revived so as to be broken and consumed?
I have heard some talk about a "revived Roman empire" yet to come, but the above verse might mean a revival of all four kings Nebuchadnezzar saw in his dream, including himself as the first one.

In some sense, a kingdom of God has been set up already in the days of the original Roman empire

When this kingdom is set up, it is meaning during the time of the 10 toes. Further info about them can be found in Revelation 17 for one, plus Daniel 7 as well.

 

[jgr]

The 70 weeks are determined on Jerusalem and Daniel's people. Neither one has embraced the Gospel yet... proving the 70 weeks are not complete.

The remnant of Daniel's people embraced it, beginning at the birth of the Church, and continuing to this moment for each one who places his or her faith in Christ.

It is the remnant that will be saved (Romans 9:27).

The remnant has embraced the Gospel, and has been, is being, and will continue to be; saved.