TheSeabass
Well-Known Member
No verse says sins that remain un-repented are covered by the blood of Christ.
Again, can the Christian in my example live and die impenitently in adultery and still be saved?
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No verse says sins that remain un-repented are covered by the blood of Christ.My sin is ALL under the blood.
If he was truly saved, and dies committing adultery, he will face Jesus as a disobedient child ... how is that sin different from your own. Are you sure you have no sins of the heart; pride, anger, and the such that you have not repented of?Yes, adultery, lust whether physical/acted out or thought about in the heart is sin that separates one from God.
So in my example, will that Christian be saved having lived and impenitently died in the sin of adultery?
If he was truly saved, and dies committing adultery, he will face Jesus as a disobedient child ….
Dr Jack said:how is that sin different from your own. Are you sure you have no sins of the heart; pride, anger, and the such that you have not repented of?
Are your sins forgiven or not?Yes, adultery, lust whether physical/acted out or thought about in the heart is sin that separates one from God.
So in my example, will that Christian be saved having lived and impenitently died in the sin of adultery?
Let me deal with these two statements ...Salvation comes with conditions (such as belief and repentance) and as long as the conditions continue to be met, one will continue to have the promise of eternal life.
Giving a license to sin is the VERY thing OSAS does do. I have seen devout "church going" people lie, cheat steal, etc knowing better but did it anyway having been told they cannot lose their salvation.
"Sam Morris, a Baptist preacher in Stamford, Texas wrote...... “We take the position that a Christian's sins do not damn his soul. The way a Christian lives, what he says, his character, his conduct, or his attitude toward other people have nothing whatever to do with the salvation of his soul... All the prayers a man may pray, all the Bibles he may read, all the churches he may belong to, all the services he may attend, all the sermons he may practice, all the debts he may pay, all the ordinances he may observe, all the laws he may keep, all the benevolent acts he may per-form will not make his soul one whit safer; and all the sins he may commit from idolatry to murder will not make his soul in any more danger... The way a man lives has nothing whatever to do with the salvation of his soul... The way I live has nothing whatsoever to do with the salvation of my soul" [Do a Christian’s Sins Damn His Soul?]."
"Bill Foster, Baptist preacher in Louisville, KY commented: "If I killed my wife and mother and debauched a thousand women, I couldn't go to hell -- in fact, I couldn't go to hell if I wanted to. If on the judgment day, I should find that my loved ones are lost and should lose all desire to be saved, and should beg God to send me to hell with them, He couldn't do it" (The Weekly Worker, March 12, 1959)."
I could cite others, but the two above examples should suffice in making my point. If OSAS were true, then the above quotes would be true.
Again, was the Christian in my example, according to you, be saved or lost?
If "Yes", then why?
If "No", then why?
Again, did you as a child ever have to confess wrongdoing to your parents?What does this mean? Will he be saved or lost?
I admit I sin, no secret there. But as long as the Christian continues to walk in the light, the Christ's blood cleanses away ALL sins and this includes sins of ignorance or committed unknowingly. 1 John 1:7-10
1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Both verses 7 and 9 begin with a conditional "if" for the Christian.
The physical, blood relationship is not the same as the spiritual.Again, did you as a child ever have to confess wrongdoing to your parents?
Did you being a part of that family depend upon that confession?
What you are preaching here is that God the Father is less gracious than your earthly parents.
It was the fact that EVEN when you violated your parents rules, they were still your parents.
Now when I grew up, there was old fashioned discipline ... Dad knew how to use his belt.
If you didn't have the desire to repent ... He would educate you as to why you should.
It reminds me of ...
12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. Hebrews
What we have is a Father who, when we don't seem to get the point, doesn't kick us out of the family ... He gets out the rod of chastisement ... for who?
For His rebellious children.
Yes. I continue to walk in the light, Christ's blood continues to wash away all sins. 1 John 1:7Are your sins forgiven or not?
Was the Christian, in the example I gave, who ran off and lived and died impenitently in adultery be saved or not?Let me deal with these two statements ...
They are true!
But here is the question I have for you ...
Have either of these two men do anything on the list they spoke of?
You're missing the point!
Is he telling his people; go sin all you want? No!
He is telling them that God has there salvation secure, stop worrying about your own salvation if you're a believer, and start telling others about your great God.
I remember years ago, (mid 80's) Jimmy Swaggart stood behind the pulpit (preaching as you do) that he wouldn't give a nickel for a church that had sinners in it.
About a month later, he was caught with a prostitute. He then made his famous confession and prayer at the pulpit.
In 1991 that same Jimmy Swaggart was caught once again with a prostitute. This time there was no repentance, yet he continued to preach.
The difference is, he was a complete hypocrite.
Then we have Jim Bakker ...
"A cover-up of hush money paid to a church secretary, Jessica Hahn, for an alleged rape led to his resignation from the ministry. Subsequent revelations of accounting fraud brought about his conviction, imprisonment and divorce. Bakker later remarried and returned to televangelism, where he founded his new ministry Morningside Church in Blue Eye, Missouri and currently hosts The Jim Bakker Show, which focuses on the end of days and return of Christ."
Jim Bakker - Wikipedia
I don't care what the denomination, we all have those that to wickedness.
Nevertheless, that doesn't change the truth of Scripture. Not a single Scripture reference refers to "temporary salvation". If we can lose our salvation, that is all we have.
repent of your unbelief is what Peter meant.I'm certain that it is deeper than just one's mind.
It really confuses me why a lot of people say "repent of your sins" in order to get saved. I can't find anywhere in scripture where it says this. We should repent of our sins after we get saved as a sanctification process and to grow in Christ. And of course we should confess our sins to him, do good works, and all that, also part of our walk in him after we are saved and sealed, part of sanctification and the result of salvation. But everywhere in scripture, all I see is Jesus saying "repent". I never see anywhere "repent of your sins" when he preaches the gospel to them to save them. I am not making this thread as a debate or argument, I am generally curious if I am missing something here because I'm confused why so many street preachers and teachers say "repent of your sins" when preaching the gospel because I just don't see this in scripture, I always want to follow scripture and not man's traditions. If someone wants to challenge me on this or show me somewhere in the new testament where it says this please do so.
It really confuses me why a lot of people say "repent of your sins" in order to get saved. I can't find anywhere in scripture where it says this. We should repent of our sins after we get saved as a sanctification process and to grow in Christ. And of course we should confess our sins to him, do good works, and all that, also part of our walk in him after we are saved and sealed, part of sanctification and the result of salvation. But everywhere in scripture, all I see is Jesus saying "repent". I never see anywhere "repent of your sins" when he preaches the gospel to them to save them. I am not making this thread as a debate or argument, I am generally curious if I am missing something here because I'm confused why so many street preachers and teachers say "repent of your sins" when preaching the gospel because I just don't see this in scripture, I always want to follow scripture and not man's traditions. If someone wants to challenge me on this or show me somewhere in the new testament where it says this please do so.
Under the Gospel of the Kingdom, its for Jews to repent or change their mind about Jesus. They must change their mind and believe that Jesus is their promised Messiah and the Son of God that was sent to be their King. Peter and Martha both acknowledged that.
Under the Gospel of Grace, us Gentiles don't need to repent per se. We need to believe that Jesus died for our sins and rose again on the third day as a sign that our sins are now forgiven, and we stand justified before God.
I disagree about Gentiles. Repentance is repentance from our sins. Jesus came to take away our sins. Just before Jesus' ministry, John the Baptist was preaching repentance, and those he baptized confessed THEIR SINS.
Matthew 3:1
In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!” 3 For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying:
“The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make His paths straight.’ ”
4 Now John himself was clothed in camel’s hair, with a leather belt around his waist; and his food was locusts and wild honey. 5 Then Jerusalem, all Judea, and all the region around the Jordan went out to him 6 and were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins.
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 3:5
And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.
You disagree about my point regarding the gentiles and then you quote scripture like Matthew which is written for the Jews, and where Jesus himself stated he was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel.
As for 1 John, it is also written to the Jews. John was confined by the proclamation in Galatians 2 that he is to minister only to the circumcised.
Do Gentiles sin or not? Jesus came to take away OUR SIN. That's the Church, both Jew and Gentile. That's what I meant. Besides the Gentiles came into the same church that was started for the Jews.
What I also disagreed with your opinion that the Jews had to accept Jesus as their Messiah (which I agree, but you left off repentance from sin, as if it doesn't matter. The whole point of His coming was to undo what Adam lost by bringing sin into the world, and death. God is a holy God and wants His people to actually be holy, and not just with a covering while you stink underneath.
In case you are unclear about what Paul declared as the "gospel for salvation", its in 1 Cor 15, which was also backed by other passages in his letters, such as Romans 10:9
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
In his letters, Paul never stated that "repentance from sins" as part of the salvation process.
As for the Jews, let's hear how Jesus respond to Peter Matthew 16:13-20
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[c] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[d] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.
I was in Church for 30 years and never had even an answer to prayer, and had no power over sin. Then one night I truly repented and the Holy Spirit came upon me and filled me to overflowing and has never left. Since them I have 7 of the 9 gifts of the Spirit, plus dreams and visions, 100% of prayers are answered, and no desire at all to sin.
God sees the heart. He honors those who obey Him without looking for loop-holes.
What does that have to do with what Guojing wrote? He gave Scripture. You wrote personal testimony which, no offense, is not on par with Scripture.
I gave scripture he wouldn't accept. He claims Gentiles don't have to REPENT to be saved. My life is a confirmation that you do. "Repent...and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Acts 2:38 (That's scripture by the way, in multiple posts, pardon the sarcasm, but you attacked)
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