Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

[keras]

I think it is more a matter of ye of little faith and a New Zealand accent.

I have a great faith in God and in His prophetic Word. MATE!
Like you, I have intensively studied Bible prophecy and nowhere do I find where God intends to take His people to heaven. We Christians have the privilege to carry out the tasks assigned to us on earth and doing that is our destiny.
As we are both Christians, I believe we will meet in the not too distant future. If that meeting is in heaven, I will give my humble apology to you. I expect you to apologize to me on earth.

 

[Douggg]

I need to apologize to you. With all the back and forth I somehow thought I was responding to Riberra's comment.

I did not intend for anything that I posted to be applied to you and again, I am sorry for the mixup and I ask you to forgive me. You certainly do seem well prepared to discuss the end times.

Old age is creeping up on me I guess.

Okay, very understandable. Not a problem.

Still, the same question...Major, do you know why it says 42 months in verse 11:2 and in the very next verse it says 1260 days in 11:3 - if those are interchangeable timeframes in bible prophecy?

It's because....

1260 days + 3.5 days + 1256.5 days (rounded off to 42 months) = 2520 days

the 1260 days is the first half
the 42 months is the second half

 

[Revealing Times]

I agree that the Jews will accept Jesus as their Messiah when they will see Jesus Coming in the Clouds in Glory AFTER the tribulation Matthew 24:29-31.
But before that the Jews who are actually living in the Land of Israel will accept the ANTICHRIST as being their Messiah.

The Jews never accept the Anti-Christ as their Messiah, that is just some people not in the know, imho, repeating that. Scriptures say God will send Elijah to turn Israel back to God before the Day of the Lord (Gods Wrath) which is before the Abomination of Desolation. Why do you think the Jews FLEE to the Wilderness ? They take heed to Jesus' warning in Matthew 24. Why do you think God protects them ? They have REPENTED/ACCEPTED Jesus as their Messiah. The Anti-Christ is not a False Christ, he is an Ant-Christ meaning he stands against all things Christ stands for.

 

[Revealing Times]

Those which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ are the CHRISTIANS who will be alive at that time....

Which prove that No Christians will be taken to Heaven to avoid it...the only protection will be for SOME of those living in Israel at that time [the woman] who will flee into a place to be protected by God and nourished Revelation 12:14...

Revelation 12:14
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

No it doesn't, it just proves you did not read the text and understand it. It says the REMNANT (Which means Small Part of) of the SEED which means the Small part of Christians who have not been Raptured.

The Woman is Israel.

 

[Riberra]

The Jews never accept the Anti-Christ as their Messiah, that is just some people not in the know, imho, repeating that.

John 5:43 context: Jesus speaking to the Jews near the end of His 3 1/2 years ministry.

John 5:43
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

 

[Riberra]

No it doesn't, it just proves you did not read the text and understand it. It says the REMNANT (Which means Small Part of) of the SEED which means the Small part of Christians who have not been Raptured.

The Woman is Israel.

'The woman' who will flee in the wilderness is a group in Israel that will turn to God when they will see the two witnesses being resurrected and ascend to Heaven in their resurrected bodies.

Revelation 11:13 tell us about that conversion to God ....these are them who will flee in the wilderness along with those who are already Christians (very few in Israel)at the time ie [in a still unknown time in the future.]

Revelation 11:7-13
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

 

[Revealing Times]

43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

And you make the same leap the others that think like you make. This has nothing to do with anyone accepting the "Man of Sin" in the End Times, the scriptures clearly say Elijah turns Israel back to God before the Abomination of Desolation. If you read history, the Jews (some select leaders) brought forth at various times after Jesus' death, different leaders they called the "Messiah" and tried to fit them to the part, they were trying their best to destroy the vestiges of Christianity.

This passage has nothing to do with the Anti-Christ. They also accepted Barabbas over Jesus.

'The woman' who will flee in the wilderness is a group in Israel that will turn to God when they will see the two witnesses being resurrected and ascend to Heaven in their resurrected bodies.

The Abomination of Desolation happens well before the Two-Witnesses die, they die after the Second Woe and ascend just before the Third Woe, which is the Seven Vials of Gods Wrath. PROOF OF TIMING :

Rev. 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

The Two Witnesses are Killed just before Jesus' return, the Abomination of Desolation happens at the exact Mid-way point. The book of Revelation IS NOT in Chronological Order. The Seals, Trumps and Vials are in perfect order, all others are not in order. Not even close. Rev. 19 runs for the full Seven Year Period. Rev. 17 happened during Rev. 6 and 7, Rev. 18 happened during the Seals,Trumps and Vials. Rev. 13 happened from Rev. 6 to Rev. 16.

Revelation 11:13 tell us about that conversion to God ....these are them who will flee in the wilderness along with those who are already Christians (very few in Israel)at the time ie [in a still unknown time in the future.]

The REMNANT of Israel is the ones who chose to stay in Jerusalem, not those who obeyed Jesus and FLED TO THE WILDERNESS.

 

[Riberra]

And you make the same leap the others that think like you make. This has nothing to do with anyone accepting the "Man of Sin" in the End Times, the scriptures clearly say Elijah turns Israel back to God before the Abomination of Desolation.

Can you show us the scriptures saying that ?

The Abomination of Desolation happens well before the Two-Witnesses die, they die after the Second Woe and ascend just before the Third Woe, which is the Seven Vials of Gods Wrath. PROOF OF TIMING :

Rev. 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

The Two Witnesses are Killed just before Jesus' return, the Abomination of Desolation happens at the exact Mid-way point.

The book of Revelation IS NOT in Chronological Order. The Seals, Trumps and Vials are in perfect order, all others are not in order. Not even close.

The woes are in chronological order two of them will happen after that the the bottomless pit will be opened Revelation 9 .

The third woe will happen AFTER the two witnesses will be resurrected and ascend to Heaven Revelation 11:12-14

The third woe will be when Satan will be cast out of Heaven at the mid point of the tribulation.
Revelation 12:12
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. WOE to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

[Revealing Times]

Can you show us the scriptures saying that ?

Sure....Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Elijah is one of the Two-Witnesses !! The Two-Witnesses have a 1260 day period of time they are witnessing in Jerusalem. The Beast has a 1260 Day period of time also, in which he rules over Jerusalem. The Beast is around until the Seven Vials come to pass, and the Seven Vials in total is the THIRD WOE, so the Anti-Christ is around after the Two-Witnesses ascend to heaven, which means what ? That if the Two-Witnesses are around for 1260 days, then they have to show up before the Anti-Christs 1260 Day Rule over Jerusalem starts, which means they/Elijah turn Israel back to their FATHERS (ABRAHAM/ISSAC/JACOB) and thus back to God, before the Day of the Lord (Gods 3 1/2 year period of Wrath).

Zechariah the 12th Chapter, read it all, then Zechariah 13:1 shows that IN THAT DAY (The Day they Accept Jesus the one whom they pierced/Zechariah 12:10) there will be a FOUNTAIN (Blood of Jesus) opened up to Israel for their SINS and UNCLEANNESS !!

The woes are in chronological order two of them will happen after that the the bottomless pit will be opened Revelation 9 .

The third woe will happen AFTER the two witnesses will be resurrected and ascend to Heaven Revelation 11:12-14

The third woe will be when Satan will be cast out of Heaven at the mid point of the tribulation.
Revelation 12:12
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. WOE to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

The Abomination of Desolation happens at the First and Second Seal. The Anti-Christ is brought forth and CONQUERS then he KILLS MANY in Seal number 2. So Satan is cast out of Heaven in or right before Rev. 6, it just isn't spoken about so much. But we understand, the False Prophet and the Anti-Christ/Beast are given enormous powers via Satan. Remember Daniel chapter 8 says he has great power, but NOT OF HIS OWN.

 

[Major1]

True ....thus Daniel 9:23-27 have been fulfilled DURING THE FIRST COMING OF JESUS....the Jews have not accepted Jesus as being their promised Messiah...and they have not ceased their transgression...thus the City and the temple have been destroyed as prophesied by Daniel.

NO it is not TRUE. Daniel 9:27 says......"AND HE shall confirm THE agreement with many for one week....".

That has not happened as the "HE" in that verse is the coming A/C.

In the same verse we see........"And for the overspreading of abominations "HE" (A/C) shall make it desolate even until the consummation........."

That is exactly what Paul told us in 2 Thess. 2:4......
" who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God".

Matt. 24:15.......
“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand)."

This is confirmed by the fact that some of what Daniel prophesied in Daniel 9:27 did not occur in 167 B.C. with Antiochus Epiphanies. Antiochus did not confirm a covenant with Israel for seven years.

It is the Antichrist who, in the end times, during the 7 year Tribulation who will establish a covenant with Israel for seven years and then break it by doing something similar to the abomination of desolation in the Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

Whatever the future abomination of desolation is, it will leave no doubt in anyone’s mind that the one perpetrating it is the person known as the Antichrist. Revelation 13:14 describes him making some kind of image which all are forced to worship. Turning the temple of the living God into a place of worship for the Antichrist is truly an “abomination.”

 

[Major1]

True ....thus Daniel 9:23-27 have been fulfilled DURING THE FIRST COMING OF JESUS....the Jews have not accepted Jesus as being their promised Messiah...and they have not ceased their transgression...thus the City and the temple have been destroyed as prophesied by Daniel.

Oooops, double posted.

 

[Major1]

Okay, very understandable. Not a problem.

Still, the same question...Major, do you know why it says 42 months in verse 11:2 and in the very next verse it says 1260 days in 11:3 - if those are interchangeable timeframes in bible prophecy?

It's because....

1260 days + 3.5 days + 1256.5 days (rounded off to 42 months) = 2520 days

the 1260 days is the first half
the 42 months is the second half

No argument from me. Jesus warned those in Judea (the region in which Jerusalem is located), at that time, to flee. Those who will heed the warning to escape (very possibly to the mountain-desert location of Petra, in western Jordan) will be protected for 1,260 days, which also is 42 months or 3½ years—the second half of the 70th Week.

"a time, times, and half a time" = 1 year + 2 years + ½ year = 3½ years) remaining (12:14), which is 42 (Hebrew) months of 30 days each, or 1,260 days.

 

[Major1]

I have a great faith in God and in His prophetic Word. MATE!
Like you, I have intensively studied Bible prophecy and nowhere do I find where God intends to take His people to heaven. We Christians have the privilege to carry out the tasks assigned to us on earth and doing that is our destiny.
As we are both Christians, I believe we will meet in the not too distant future. If that meeting is in heaven, I will give my humble apology to you. I expect you to apologize to me on earth.

Do I ever hope that you are correct. I say that because I do not know how many people I know personally who fall into the scene you just described.

I mean no disrespect, and I am not challenging your faith, only stating the obvious hoping that I am wrong.

Matthew 7:21-23 .........
“Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord!' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven. On that day many will say to Me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?' Then I will announce to them, 'I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!"

Consider my neighbor Tom, for example. He lives 2 doors down from me so we see each other frequently and as a result, I know him well. He says that he is a believer. I have asked him many, many times. However, he does not talk a lot about Jesus. If you asked him what church he goes to, he would answer, "None." He does not keep Christmas or Easter, either. He has no pastor and therefore also does not tithe anywhere. He mostly is busy getting things done on Sundays since he sleeps in late with his wife on Saturday after a long hard work week at their jobs.

Now, based on this brief profile of him, would you expect to see Harold in the rapture? I bet most Christians would have their doubts. Do you think that he fits the warning in Titus 2:13-15...........
"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."

 

[Riberra]

Sure....Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Elijah is one of the Two-Witnesses !! The Two-Witnesses have a 1260 day period of time they are witnessing in Jerusalem. The Beast has a 1260 Day period of time also, in which he rules over Jerusalem. The Beast is around until the Seven Vials come to pass, and the Seven Vials in total is the THIRD WOE, so the Anti-Christ is around after the Two-Witnesses ascend to heaven, which means what ? That if the Two-Witnesses are around for 1260 days, then they have to show up before the Anti-Christs 1260 Day Rule over Jerusalem starts, which means they/Elijah turn Israel back to their FATHERS (ABRAHAM/ISSAC/JACOB) and thus back to God, before the Day of the Lord (Gods 3 1/2 year period of Wrath).

Do you notice that the day of the Lord's Wrath upon the wicked described in Malachi 4 does not correspond to a 3 1/2 year period of Wrath but will happen only in ONE DAY ...and the day that cometh shall burn them up,That fit perfectly with the statement that Our Lord is a consuming fire who will destroy the wicked by the Glory of His Coming [2 Thessalonians 1:7-8] - [Psalms 21:9]

Malachi 4
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

 

[Revealing Times]

Do you notice that the day of the Lord's Wrath upon the wicked described in Malachi 4 does not correspond to a 3 1/2 year period of Wrath but will happen only in ONE DAY ...and the day that cometh shall burn them up,That fit perfectly with the statement that Our Lord is a consuming fire who will destroy the wicked by the Glory of His Coming [2 Thessalonians 1:7-8] - [Psalms 21:9]

Malachi 4
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

NO....You guys get hung up on technical stuff. A DAY does not always stand for a day because the word used for day is YOM which has about 50 different meanings. The Hebrew language had 4000 words, out English has 500,000 words. The ORIGINAL meaning of YOM was "To be Hot". It can mean a day, a period of time, a year, a season, etc. etc. etc. This is why many actually believe the Universe was created in SIX DAYS, which is silly. The First Day was a PERIOD of Time that lasted 9.2 Billion years. The second day lasted from 4.5 Billion BC to about 900 Million years BC.........ETC. ETC.

I did a study on every place in the bible where the Day of the Lord appears, about 30 something places it seems. And it is always showing Gods Wrath.

 

[Riberra]

I did a study on every place in the bible where the Day of the Lord appears, about 30 something places it seems. And it is always showing Gods Wrath.

The Wrath described in the OT prophecies will happen at His Coming.

The 7 Vials of the wrath of God described in Revelation 16 will be poured out after that the Beast will have slain mostly all the Christians who will refuse to take the mark and worship the Beast.

 

[Douggg]

No argument from me. Jesus warned those in Judea (the region in which Jerusalem is located), at that time, to flee. Those who will heed the warning to escape (very possibly to the mountain-desert location of Petra, in western Jordan) will be protected for 1,260 days, which also is 42 months or 3½ years—the second half of the 70th Week.

"a time, times, and half a time" = 1 year + 2 years + ½ year = 3½ years) remaining (12:14), which is 42 (Hebrew) months of 30 days each, or 1,260 days.

The time, times, half a times is not the "exact" equilavent of 42 months, nor 1260 days, nor 3 1/2 years.

Here's why....

1260 days + 3 1/3 days + the amount of earth time that passes while the war in heaven takes place = leaves what's left in the 7 years. What's left is the time, times, half times. Generically it could be called 3 1/2 years, but is not in actuality.

I don't think you understood what I wrote about the 42 months not exactly equaling to 1260 days in the realm of the time frames in Revelation - so, I don't think you will get what I am talking about regarding the time, times, half times.

 

[keras]

Do you notice that the day of the Lord's Wrath upon the wicked described in Malachi 4 does not correspond to a 3 1/2 year period of Wrath but will happen only in ONE DAY ...and the day that cometh shall burn them up,That fit perfectly with the statement that Our Lord is a consuming fire who will destroy the wicked by the Glory of His Coming [2 Thessalonians 1:7-8] - [Psalms 21:9]

Malachi 4
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

Yes, the Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath is a one Day event. But that is not the Day of Jesus' Return. At His Return, He is seen by the world and He destroys the armies at Jerusalem, chaining up Satan for the 1000 years.
But the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath happens at the Sixth Seal, as we are plainly told in Revelation 6:17 It will be the worldwide disaster that sets the scene for all that must happen before the Return.

It's a mistake to confuse the two Days of the Lord; first His wrath, where His is not seen, the other, His glorious Return, on the great Day of Almighty God. Revelation 16:14b

 

[Douggg]

The First Day was a PERIOD of Time that lasted 9.2 Billion years. The second day lasted from 4.5 Billion BC to about 900 Million years BC.........ETC. ETC.

A year is the time it takes for earth to make one orbit around the sun. A day is the amount of time it takes for the earth to revolve one time on its axis. Thus, a year and a day has meaning as long as there is an earth and sun.

 

[Riberra]

Yes, the Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath is a one Day event. But that is not the Day of Jesus' Return. At His Return, He is seen by the world and He destroys the armies at Jerusalem, chaining up Satan for the 1000 years.
But the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath happens at the Sixth Seal, as we are plainly told in Revelation 6:17 It will be the worldwide disaster that sets the scene for all that must happen before the Return.

It's a mistake to confuse the two Days of the Lord; first His wrath, where His is not seen, the other, His glorious Return, on the great Day of Almighty God. Revelation 16:14b

[Psalms 21:9] [Malachi 4]
If all the wicked all around the Earth will be burned to ashes at the 6 TH Seal then there will be no need for Jesus to return [2 Thessalonians 1:7-8]

The 6Th seal describe a devastating worldwide earthquake Revelation 6:12 ....and some terrifying celestial events happening immediately after the great earthquake Revelation 6:13-14....people are terrified and believe that the End of the world is arrived right at that moment Revelation 6:15-17 .