Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

[Major1]

There is no time gap between the 69 th week and the end of the 70 th weeks.
To be a true prophecy the Seventy Weeks Prophecy of Daniel 9 was supposed to offer the believer the identity of the Messiah by showing the exact time in which he would appear. ...and also the finalization of the 490 years time allowed for the Jews to finish their transgression and anoint the Messiah.
Here the details:
When Was Stephen Stoned?

The 70 Weeks Prophecy begins with the first sacrifice offered on the rebuilt altar on the Temple mount when Joshua, the High Priest, and Zerubbabel returned from the captivity. The Jews began to make daily offerings to God from the first day of the seventh month upon their return from captivity (Ezra 3:6). This is a very important date, as it represents the first time in decades that worship of the God of Israel was offered from the Temple mount, and it represents the “firstfruits” of the decree of the emperor, which I believe is implied in the prophecy. So, the date of the decree itself is not important, but date of the firstfruits of that decree is the important part of the prophecy in terms of when it begins. The Messiah was to come at the beginning of the 70th week or 483 years after the first sacrifice was offered by the returning captives.

No matter which year one chooses to begin the 70 Weeks Prophecy, the 484th year must begin in the fall and on the Feast of Trumpets. I submit that from Luke 4:16 and up to Luke 6:49 Luke shows Jesus beginning his ministry on the Feast of Trumpets (Luke 4:16) and each Sabbath mentioned thereafter is either an annual Holy Day or a seventh day Sabbath. The odd “second Sabbath after the first” in Luke 6:1 is the seventh day Sabbath which occurred in that year back to back with the annual Day of Atonement, a fast day, which is why the Apostles were hungry and began to take some grain from the fields on the Sabbath day, rubbing it in their hands and eating the kernels.

Anyway, long-story-short, 3 ½ years later Jesus was crucified, and the 70 Weeks prophecy foretold the Messiah would be ‘cut’ (offered for the covenant) in the midst or the middle of the prophetic week (Daniel 9:26-27). The 70th week comprises 7 years, 3 ½ of which represented Jesus public ministry culminating in his crucifixion and resurrection. The final period of 3 ½ years or the second part of the 70th prophetic week was fulfilled by Jesus through the ministry of the Apostles up to the time of Stephen’s death. Blood was shed in the midst of the week, and blood was shed at the culmination of the week.

Notice in Luke 10:18 that Jesus said he beheld Satan like lightning fall from heaven. This is shown in Revelation 12:7-10 where Michael/Jesus makes war with Satan. Now I am not saying Jesus is an angelic being, but I am saying Michel is Jesus—the Angel of the LORD who is God in the Old Testament. Anyway, Jesus with his disciples were waging spiritual warfare against Satan’s kingdom (cp. Luke 10:17). The angels in Revelation 12 represent the messengers of Jesus and Satan respectively. In the Gospels they are Jesus’ disciples waging war against Satan or the Pharisees and High Priests who fought against Jesus and his disciples.

Notice in Revelation 12:6 the woman (the Jewish believers) had a place of safety for 1260 days. This is the first part of the 70th prophetic week and represents Jesus care for his disciples—they were safe, and he lost no one. In the second part of the week the disciples were also safe according to Revelation 12:14. The believers were spiritually nourished for a time (1) + times (2) and half a time (1/2) or 3 ½ years. Daniel divides his 70th week up in Daniel 12 into portions of time, times and half a time (1260 days in Revelation), 1290 days (Revelation’s time, times and half a time) and 1335 days. I have argued in previous posts that all these days in Jesus’ ministry begin and end on annual Holy Days, or on an important day within those annual Feast Days, and same is true for the first few years of the ministry of the Apostles. Those studies can be found HERE, HERE and HERE respectively.

The point is there is a compelling argument that the Seventy Weeks Prophecy is fulfilled. There is no authority to remove the 70th week from the 1st century and place it in our day. That said, there is also a compelling argument showing Stephen’s death represents the end of the “safe” period for believers in Jesus. Both portions of the 70th week show Jesus’ disciples protected, but also both portions end with the shedding of blood under similar circumstances in a “kangaroo-court” that was bent upon shedding the blood of the accused.

Therefore, Stephen was stoned in the fall of 34 or 35 CE at the latest (depending upon the year Jesus began his public ministry 27 or 28 CE). This would put Caiaphas as High Priest at the stoning of Stephen (Acts 7:1). Jonathan would be the new High Priest in 36 CE in Acts 9:1, but his tenure lasted only a year and a half, or from Passover in 36 CE to the fall Festivals in 37 CE. So Theophilus would have been the High Priest immediately following Paul’s conversion in Acts 9:17-20. However, since Paul didn’t arrive at Jerusalem until 3 years afterward (Galatians 1:18), Theophilus would have continued the persecution of Jewish believers in Jesus until about 39 CE, when Caius Caesar’s determination to place a statue of himself in the Temple at Jerusalem became more important than perusing Jews who believed in Jesus and preached Stephen’s Gospel that all people are equally acceptable to God. It was this event concerning the image of Caius Caesar rather than the conversion of Paul that brought peace and a cessation of persecution of believers in Jesus (Acts 9:31).

No sir you are very wrong.

Palm Sunday was the day. On this day Jesus made His only Messianic and therefore political appearance in all His life and ministry. He had taught and ministered among His people for three and a half years. He had retreated from the crowds on many occasions when they had sought to raise Him to prominence. But this day, this special day in holy history, was a day like no other. It was the only time Jesus was presented Himself to His people in a political way as their Messiah.

On that auspicious day Jesus/Yeshua made a grand entrance. Oh yes, He was rejected by the city of Jerusalem as a whole. And He was despised by the Sanhedrin. But on that day our Messiah made a very open and public political appearance.

Israel's Messiah was coming into His City! But Messiah entered His Holy City in His priestly role as the 'The Suffering Servant', even Israel's Sacrifice Lamb. The ones who knew Him and loved Him received Him with adulation.

From the Mount of Olives our Savior came. He crossed the Kidron Valley and came through the Eastern Gate. Then He passed on up into the Holy City on His way to the Temple. He entered Jerusalem to the acclaim of crowds bearing palm branches. There were shouts of "Hosanna", which is an appeal from the heart meaning "Please save now!".

It was a joyful parade. Those who loved Him were there. They greeted Him with shouts of joy. The palm branches were waved and thrown before Him in the manner of a king returning to his city in triumph.

Alas this moment was short lived. His city was not ready for Him. And when He went on to cleanse the Temple for the second time and disrupt the lucrative religi-business of the religious leaders they were furious. In spite of it being close to the holy days of Passover they immediately plotted to kill Him. Four days later, just as Daniel's prophecy had predicted, our Messiah was "cut off" or executed.

As it turns out the terminus of the 69 weeks would mark the day in which Messiah presented Himself to His covenant people and the world for the first time. But there would be two comings. On this first occasion He would come into His city as the Suffering Servant.

The House of Judah, the royal tribe out of the 12 tribes of Israel, with contingents from Levi and Benjamin were their to meet Him. Many of them received Him with joy. But the lost ten tribes of Israel were not there. They had been taken captive by the Assyrians 753 years before this. They were out there lost. At the time of the passion of Messiah they were wandering in their families in amongst the heathen goyim nations.

Messiah made His appearance. But it was a sad day and Jesus wept over His city. The hearts were hard, and the City of the Great King would not come into His Shalom/peace. Just as Isaiah had prophesied Israel's Suffering Servant was rejected by His own. And as Daniel had prophesied, Messiah was "cut off", ... executed thereby beginning thr GAP which is known as the Church Age!!!

That 'gap' period has now lasted 2000 years. During this time the message of the Gospel would go out to the nations. At the close of the age a final 70th week would usher in the climactic final seven years of this present age. The terminus of that 70th week would mark the Day of the Lord and herald the Second Coming of Messiah.

 

[Major1]

True ....thus Daniel 9:23-27 have been fulfilled DURING THE FIRST COMING OF JESUS....the Jews have not accepted Jesus as being their promised Messiah...and they have not ceased their transgression...thus the City and the temple have been destroyed as prophesied by Daniel.

NOPE...........Messiah was CUT OFF.

 

[Douggg]

Revelation 12:3-17 is about Satan who will be cast out of Heaven just before the Second Half of the tribulation.....

What about the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 before the war in heaven and Satan cast down? Why isn't that the first half of the 7 years?

 

[Riberra]

No sir you are very wrong.

Palm Sunday was the day. On this day Jesus made His only Messianic and therefore political appearance in all His life and ministry. He had taught and ministered among His people for three and a half years. He had retreated from the crowds on many occasions when they had sought to raise Him to prominence. But this day, this special day in holy history, was a day like no other. It was the only time Jesus was presented Himself to His people in a political way as their Messiah.

On that auspicious day Jesus/Yeshua made a grand entrance. Oh yes, He was rejected by the city of Jerusalem as a whole. And He was despised by the Sanhedrin. But on that day our Messiah made a very open and public political appearance.

Israel's Messiah was coming into His City! But Messiah entered His Holy City in His priestly role as the 'The Suffering Servant', even Israel's Sacrifice Lamb. The ones who knew Him and loved Him received Him with adulation.

From the Mount of Olives our Savior came. He crossed the Kidron Valley and came through the Eastern Gate. Then He passed on up into the Holy City on His way to the Temple. He entered Jerusalem to the acclaim of crowds bearing palm branches. There were shouts of "Hosanna", which is an appeal from the heart meaning "Please save now!".

It was a joyful parade. Those who loved Him were there. They greeted Him with shouts of joy. The palm branches were waved and thrown before Him in the manner of a king returning to his city in triumph.

Alas this moment was short lived. His city was not ready for Him. And when He went on to cleanse the Temple for the second time and disrupt the lucrative religi-business of the religious leaders they were furious. In spite of it being close to the holy days of Passover they immediately plotted to kill Him. Four days later, just as Daniel's prophecy had predicted, our Messiah was "cut off" or executed.

As it turns out the terminus of the 69 weeks would mark the day in which Messiah presented Himself to His covenant people and the world for the first time. But there would be two comings. On this first occasion He would come into His city as the Suffering Servant.

The House of Judah, the royal tribe out of the 12 tribes of Israel, with contingents from Levi and Benjamin were their to meet Him. Many of them received Him with joy. But the lost ten tribes of Israel were not there. They had been taken captive by the Assyrians 753 years before this. They were out there lost. At the time of the passion of Messiah they were wandering in their families in amongst the heathen goyim nations.

Messiah made His appearance. But it was a sad day and Jesus wept over His city. The hearts were hard, and the City of the Great King would not come into His Shalom/peace. Just as Isaiah had prophesied Israel's Suffering Servant was rejected by His own. And as Daniel had prophesied, Messiah was "cut off", ... executed thereby beginning thr GAP which is known as the Church Age!!!

That 'gap' period has now lasted 2000 years. During this time the message of the Gospel would go out to the nations. At the close of the age a final 70th week would usher in the climactic final seven years of this present age. The terminus of that 70th week would mark the Day of the Lord and herald the Second Coming of Messiah.

I agree that the Jews will accept Jesus as their Messiah when they will see Jesus Coming in the Clouds in Glory AFTER the tribulation Matthew 24:29-31.
But before that the Jews who are actually living in the Land of Israel will accept the ANTICHRIST as being their Messiah.

 

[Douggg]

Revelation 12:3-22 is about Satan who will be cast out of Heaven just before the Second Half of the tribulation.....

The last 42 months of the tribulation.


Because the Beast of Revelation 13:4-5 [the angel of the bottomless pit]who is only a 'subaltern' subordinate of Satan on the Earth wait to get power from the great red dragon (Satan), having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. ....

Revelation 13:4-5
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Ribera, I have no idea how what you wrote explained why there are crowns on the heads in Revelation 12 but not crowns on the head in Revelation 13.

So I will explain (again). In Revelation 12, there is the entire 7 year 70th week addressed in that chapter, and king #7 has come to power.... completing the prophecy of the 7 kings in Revelation 17. So the heads have crowns.

In Revelation 13, king #7 will have been killed right before the last 42 months begin - ending the prophecy of the 7 kings. So in Revelation 13, there are no crowns on the heads.

All of which means that the 70th week of Daniel 9:26-27 is still future. And has nothing to do with the length of Jesus's ministry and the stoning of Stephen.

 

[Riberra]

Ribera, I have no idea how what you wrote explained why there are crowns on the heads in Revelation 12 but not crowns on the head in Revelation 13.

So I will explain (again). In Revelation 12, there are the entire 7 year 70th week addressed in that chapter, and king #7 has come to power.... completing the prophecy of the 7 kings in Revelation 17. So the heads have crowns.

In Revelation 13, king #7 will have been killed right before the last 42 months begin - end the prophecy of the 7 kings. So in Revelation 13, there are no crowns on the heads.

All of which means that the 70th week of Daniel 9:26-27 are still future. And have nothing to do with the length of Jesus's ministry and the stoning of Stephen.

the 70th week of Daniel 9:26-27 have nothing to do with the antichrist that will come in the End Time.
Daniel 9:26-27 was about a time period of 490 years that were allowed to the Jews to cease their transgression and to anoint the Messiah that will come at the 483 years...

 

[Douggg]

I agree that the Jews will accept Jesus as their Messiah when they will see Jesus Coming in the Clouds in Glory AFTER the tribulation Matthew 24:29-31.
But before that the Jews who are actually living in the Land of Israel will accept the ANTICHRIST as being their Messiah.

No, the Jews embrace Jesus during the second half of the seven years. Because it says of them who will be persecuted by Satan - that they keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[Riberra]

No, the Jews embrace Jesus during the second half of the seven years. Because it says of them who will be persecuted by Satan - that they keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Those which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ are the CHRISTIANS who will be alive at that time....

Which prove that No Christians will be taken to Heaven to avoid it...the only protection will be for SOME of those living in Israel at that time [the woman] who will flee into a place to be protected by God and nourished Revelation 12:14...

Revelation 12:14
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

 

[Douggg]

Those which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ are the CHRISTIANS who will be alive at that time....

Which prove that No Christians will be taken to Heaven to avoid it...the only protection will be for those in Israel [the woman]who will flee into a place to be protected by God and nourished Revelation 12:14...

Revelation 12:14
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

The woman in Revelation 12 is identified as Israel. Satan, after he is cast down, persecutes the woman - except them of the woman who have fled into the wilderness. The remnant, that is, of the woman, will be persecuted by Satan. The remnant of the woman are Jews... who at that time will have embraced Jesus... so yes, they are Christians, all Israel will have embraced Jesus at that time.

Those Christians are not taken to heaven - true. The Rapture will have already taken place before the war in heaven takes place. And those raptured Christians will be the Christians in heaven, to return with Jesus as his saints to rescue the Jews who will be welcoming him - blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.

 

[Riberra]

The woman in Revelation 12 is identified as Israel. Satan, after he is cast down, persecutes the woman - except them of the woman who have fled into the wilderness. The remnant, that is, of the woman, will be persecuted by Satan. The remnant of the woman are Jews... who at that time will have embraced Jesus... so yes, they are Christians, all Israel will have embraced Jesus at that time.

Those Christians are not taken to heaven - true. The Rapture will have already taken place before the war in heaven takes place.

You claim that the Church will be rapture to Heaven ... but NOWHERE in REVELATION it is written that THE CHURCH will be taken to Heaven before the tribulation begin [Revelation 8]or at the Mid Point when Satan will be cast out of Heaven down to the Earth [Revelation 12 Revelation 13]...NOR EVEN at the End of the Tribulation.The only choice to prove your loyalty to God will be to refuse to worship the Antichrist and refuse to take his mark.

 

[Major1]

What about the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 before the war in heaven and Satan cast down? Why isn't that the first half of the 7 years?

Rev. 12:6 is the nation of Israel who is the "woman". The believers in Israel are fleeing to Petra. From that point to the 2nd Coming of Christ will be 1260 days which is the second half of the 7 year Tribulation.

I do not mean any disrespect to you my friend as you seem to be a sincere believer. But I have to ask you a question. When were you exposed to this false teaching that you are supporting??????

Again, I am not trying to be belligerent to you and I certainly do not intend to hurt your feelings but did you ever remember having just some plain old Bible Sunday School 101?????

Allow the Old Major to give you some insights. You are welcome to reject it, it is up to you but it just may help you understand why you are having such a problem with this subjest.

You see my friend, the connective word, “Then,” in verse #6 indicates a sequence between the catching up of the child and the fleeing of the woman. But are these two events necessarily closely correlated in time?

How soon must the flight be to the catching up of the child? Some people like yourself and Preterists relate this flight to that of the Jews from Jerusalem in the destruction by Rome in 70 A.D. But that escape my friend was approximately 49 years after the ascension of Christ.
Nor was there any indication of supernatural assistance as this passage describes in Rev. 12.

Certainly nothing like the Exodus occurred in relation to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. which would allow for the use of similar phraseology involving “wings of a great eagle.” Here we are faced with one of the characteristics of prophetic passages and it is taught in all seminaries and colleges and it just may be the key to your understanding........
events which appear side-by-side in the text can often be separated by long ages.

Why is that the case???? This happens because the prophetic vision has two characteristics which you need to be aware of.

1). The prophets were only shown important highlights of the final development. ( 1Pe. 1:10-11). 2). The full range of history was often collapsed in their view, much as when looking through a telescope. “Somewhat as a picture lacks the dimension of depth, the prophecy often lacks the dimension of time: events appear together on the screen of prophecy which in their fulfillment may be widely separated in time.”

There are more examples of this than I have the time or space to post for you.

YOU do the work and you will see that this is correct. Take the First and Second Coming of Christ are juxtaposed in numerous passages such as Isa. 61:1-2; Zec. 9:9-10; Mal. Mal. 3:1-2; Mal. 4:5-6; Luke Luke 4:17-19.

But the truth is and history has shown that these events to be separated by approx. 1900 years.

The first and second resurrections are juxtaposed from Dan. Dan. 12:2; and John 5:28-29, yet they are separated by no less than 1,000 years according to Rev. 20:4-6.

We have a similar sequence before us: The child is caught up and the woman flees. The child was caught up over 1900 years ago and the woman has yet to flee in the sense of this passage.

When the woman flees into the wilderness . . . we meet with another, and yet more lengthened parenthesis. Between the ascension of the Man Child and the woman’s flight—yet future—the history of Christianity comes in. The great point to lay hold of is the connection between Christ and Israel, not Christ and the Church, hence the two omitted parenthetic periods:
1) between the birth and ascension;
2) between the ascension and the flight.

This vision next recognizes Jesus’ ascension in Rev. 12:5+, and then takes up Israel’s story as though the Church Age does not intervene, just as Dan. 9:26 ignores the same period. The Church Age is the “mystery” of the Old Testament told to us in Rom. 11:25; Rom. 16:25, and is distinct from Israel’s history.

Zechariah saw the same sequence, contiguous in the text, but separated by the age of grace during which the body of Christ preaches the gospel before the focus shifts back again to Israel:

Zec. 13:7-9.....................
“Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, against the Man who is My Companion,” says the LORD of hosts. “Strike the Shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered; then I will turn My hand against the little ones. And it shall come to pass in all the land,” says the LORD, “That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, but one-third shall be left in it: I will bring the one-third through the fire, will refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘This is My people’; and each one will say, ‘The LORD is my God.’

 

[Major1]

You claim that the Church will be rapture to Heaven ... but NOWHERE in REVELATION it is written that THE CHURCH will be taken to Heaven before the tribulation begin [Revelation 8]or at the Mid Point when Satan will be cast out of Heaven down to the Earth [Revelation 12 Revelation 13]...NOR EVEN at the End of the Tribulation.The only choice to prove your loyalty to God will be to refuse to worship the Antichrist and refuse to take his mark.

Rev. 4:1.

 

[Major1]

Those which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ are the CHRISTIANS who will be alive at that time....

Which prove that No Christians will be taken to Heaven to avoid it...the only protection will be for SOME of those living in Israel at that time [the woman] who will flee into a place to be protected by God and nourished Revelation 12:14...

Revelation 12:14
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

NOPE!

There will be people saved during the Tribulation and when they see the A/C declare himself to be God, they will flee to Petra to escape.

Honestly, how do you continue to be so confused on this???

I just do not understand how you can keep pposting Scriptures that support a false teaching and ignore those you do not like.

Rev.7:9-10.......
" After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, domed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb."

In his vision John sees a great multitude beyond human computation coming from all nations, kindreds, people, and tongues standing before the throne, clothed with white robes, with palms in their hands, ascribing salvation to God and to the Lamb. In contrast to those coming from the twelve tribes as pictured earlier in the chapter, this throng comes from all nations. The white robes mentioned seem to refer to 6:11, and the palms indicate their triumph. This great multitude is heard by John in a great symphony of praise as they ascribe salvation to God. The fact that they are martyrs is stated later in the chapter.

 

[Riberra]

Rev. 4:1.

That is about John -in the spirit he saw things in Heaven see verse 2.John have not ascended to Heaven physically .
Revelation 4:1-2
1After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

 

[Douggg]

You claim that the Church will be rapture to Heaven ... but NOWHERE in REVELATION it is written that THE CHURCH will be taken to Heaven before the tribulation begin [Revelation 8]or at the Mid Point when Satan will be cast out of Heaven down to the Earth [Revelation 12 Revelation 13]...NOR EVEN at the End of the Tribulation.The only choice to prove your loyalty to God will be to refuse to worship the Antichrist and refuse to take his mark.

Riberra, the Rapture is implied in Revelation 4:1 before John is shown what happens during the 70th week.

Chapter 6-16, if a heading were applied to each chapter(s), it would be about either (1) the 70th week, the full seven years or (2) the 70th week the second half. The Rapture is not in any of the chapters below, because John in 4:1 represents the raptured Christians before any of these things take place.

These chapters are time-frame headed
Revelation 6 The seventieth week according to the seals
Revelation 7,8,9 The second half of the seventh week
Revelation 10,11 The seventieth week according to the little book
Revelation 12 The seventieth week relevant to Israel
Revelation 13, 14 The second half of the seventieth week after the two witnesses are gone
Revelation 15, 16 The second half of the the seventieth week, the bowls of wrath of God.

These chapters are topic headed
Revelation 17 - the mystery of the woman, the beast, the heads, the horns
Revelation 18 - fall of Babylon the Great
Revelation 19 - the return of Jesus to the earth

 

[keras]

Riberra, the Rapture is implied in Revelation 4:1 before John is shown what happens during the 70th week.

Implication, supposition, hinted, guessed, is this the best you rapture promotors can come up with? No wonder we who reject such a notion, treat that fable with contempt.
How can those who believe they will be removed before the Great Tribulation, even discuss what will happen on earth, during that time?

On the subject of when the 70th 'week', happens: This has not occurred as prophesied in Daniel and Revelation, as yet. We await the fulfilment of these prophesied events.
The Ministry of Jesus was about 3 years, and He fulfilled the 'sign of Jonah' between His death and Resurrection.

Jesus did prophesy the 2000 year gap: Luke 13:32, paralleled by Hosea 6:2. Proved by the fact of there having been nearly 2000 years pass until now.

 

[Douggg]

Rev. 12:6 is the nation of Israel who is the "woman". The believers in Israel are fleeing to Petra. From that point to the 2nd Coming of Christ will be 1260 days which is the second half of the 7 year Tribulation.

Major, it is not me who doesn't understand, it is you. Or perhaps you did not understand what I wrote. The first five verses of Revelation 12 are historic to identify the woman in Revelation 12 as Israel. Then it switches to the end times in Revelation 12:6. Revelation 12:6 is the first half of the seven years...... is that what you are disagreeing with?

When are the Jews supposed to flee? When the AOD is setup to be worshiped, right? So when is the AOD setup to be worshiped? From Daniel 12, 1335 days before Jesus returns. Jesus returns on day 2520, the last day of the 7 years. Thus, the AOD will be setup on day 1185. The two witnesses battle the beast for 75 days, until they are killed on day 1260... as the Jews are fleeing into the wilderness.

Once the two witnesses are killed, as the beast had made war on them - the window for fleeing closes and them in Jerusalem are stuck there.

So the 1260 days in 12:6 is the first half of the 7 years. During which, the last 75 days the Jews are fleeing into the wilderness.

the times, times, half of times in 12:14 is the second half of the 7 years. Part of Israel is in the wilderness, and part is occupied by the beast's army for 42 months.

The first half timeframes:
1260 days, Revelation 11:3, 12:6

The second half timeframes:
42 months, Revelation 11:2, 13:5
time, times, half times, Daniel 7:25, 12:7, Revelation 12:14

Major, do you know why it says 42 months in verse 11:2 and in the very next verse it says 1260 days in 11:3 - if those are interchangeable timeframes in bible prophecy?

When were you exposed to this false teaching that you are supporting??????

I am not presenting any false teaching. As I told you, God has made me an expert on the end times over the course of 45 years. I am not a seminary graduate or student and am not parroting any bible commentator.

 

[Major1]

That is about John -in the spirit he saw things in Heaven see verse 2.John have not ascended to Heaven physically .
Revelation 4:1-2
1After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

I think that we have been over this now about 6 or 7 times.

That door in 4:1 opened in heaven is the door of the ascension of the saints both the live and dead in Christ. That trumpet voice is the same which Paul describes as recalling the dead in Jesus, and to which the Lord Jesus refers as the signal by which His elect are gathered from the four winds, but which we have no reason to suppose shall be heard or understood except by those whom it is meant to summon to the skies.

And that “COME UP HITHER” is for every one in John’s estate, even the gracious and mighty word of the returning Lord himself, by virtue of which they that wait for Him shall renew their strength, and mount up with wings as eagles.

The mention of the trumpet, the voice, heaven, and the Spirit, as well as the implied action of John's “rapture” into heaven thus lend themselves to this symbolic interpretation.

A further argument in support of the assertion that the rapture occurs at 4:1-2 (or at least is implied, is the interpretation that the Greek phrase..... μετὰ ταῦτα = “after these things” of verse one marks a major section break in the Apocalypse.

In chapters 1 through 3 they are called in the Greek ταῦτα = “these things” (verse. 1:19), that is, the present Church age, while everything from chapter 4 onward represents events that take place after the present Church age. Contributing to this argument, some advocate an interpretation that the letters to the seven churches in Asia Minor outline the flow of church history in prophetic form, as well as the interpretation that the twenty-four elders first seen in verse 3 which implies the church is already in heaven when John sees it.

 

[Douggg]

Implication, supposition, hinted, guessed, is this the best you rapture promotors can come up with? No wonder we who reject such a notion, treat that fable with contempt.

I think it is more a matter of ye of little faith and a New Zealand accent.

 

[Major1]

Major, it is not me who doesn't understand, it is you. Or perhaps you did not understand what I wrote. The first five verses of Revelation 12 are historic to identify the woman in Revelation 12 as Israel. Then it switches to the end times in Revelation 12:6. Revelation 12:6 is the first half of the seven years...... is that what you are disagreeing with?

When are the Jews supposed to flee? When the AOD is setup to be worshiped, right? So when is the AOD setup to be worshiped? From Daniel 12, 1335 days before Jesus returns. Jesus returns on day 2520, the last day of the 7 years. Thus, the AOD will be setup on day 1185. The two witnesses battle the beast for 75, until they are killed on day 1260... as the Jews are fleeing into the wilderness.

Once the two witnesses are killed, as the beast had made war on them - the window for fleeing closes and them in Jerusalem are stuck there.

So the 1260 days in 12:6 is the first half of the 7 years. During which, the last 75 days the Jews are fleeing into the wilderness.

the times, times, half of times in 12:14 is the second half of the 7 years. Part of Israel is in the wilderness, and part is occupied by the beast's army for 42 months.

The first half timeframes:
1260 days, Revelation 11:3, 12:6

The second half timeframes:
42 months, Revelation 11:2, 13:5
time, times, half times, Daniel 7:25, 12:7, Revelation 12:14

Major, do you know why it says 42 months in verse 11:2 and in the very next verse it say 1260 in 11:3 ?



I am not presenting any false teaching. As I told you, God has made me an expert on the end times over the course of 45 years. I am not a seminary graduate or student and am not parroting any bible commentator.

I need to apologize to you. With all the back and forth I somehow thought I was responding to Riberra's comment.

I did not intend for anything that I posted to be applied to you and again, I am sorry for the mixup and I ask you to forgive me. You certainly do seem well prepared to discuss the end times.

Old age is creeping up on me I guess.