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Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

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Riberra

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Revelaton 13 is the second half of the 70th week after the two witnesses are gone.

But Revelation 12 is the full 70th week. The 1260 days is the first half and the time, times, half times ,the second half.

And I can prove it - by the crowns being on the heads in Revelation 12, but no crowns on the heads in Revelation 13.

With the full seven years left - there are crowns.
With only 42 months left - there are no crowns.
The Beast who will rule during 42 months is described in Revelation 11:7
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Other clue about the man of sin the son of perdition
Revelation 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Revelation 13
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
 
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Douggg

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The man of sin will be revealed and take power during 42 months (3 1/2 years) [Revelation 13]....and after Jesus will Come on the Earth to establish His millennial Kingdom.
The prerequisite for Jesus returning, is that Jerusalem is ready to welcome him - blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord (Matthew 23:37-39). That is the ending of the 70th week, the Jews, Jerusalem, receiving Jesus as Lord, Savior, messiah.

Not the stoning of Stephen.
 
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Douggg

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The Beast who will rule during 42 months is described in Revelation 11:7
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Other clue about the man of sin the son of perdition
Revelation 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Revelation 13
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
You are dodging the verses I am referring to...

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads [no crowns, Riberra] and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Revelation 12 is the full seven year 70th week
Revelation 13 is the second half of the seven year 70th week.

Riberra, do you have any idea of why there are crowns on the heads in Revelation 12, but not in Revelation 13?
 
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Riberra

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The prerequisite for Jesus returning, is that Jerusalem is ready to welcome him - blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord (Matthew 23:37-39). That is the ending of the 70th week, the Jews, Jerusalem, receiving Jesus as Lord, Savior, messiah.

Not the stoning of Stephen.
The stoning of Stephen ended the 490 years who were allowed by God to the Jews of that time to anoint the Messiah during the FIRST COMING.... which the Jews rejected...

The return of Jesus will happen AFTER the Great Tribulation Matthew 24:29-31...When a remnant of the Jews will see Jesus Coming In Glory they will finally accept Jesus as their true Messiah.
 
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Hazrus

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Hello Mr Major,

Thank you for your reply. I would like to humbly correct you from my limited knowledge of partial preterism. I would like to hope you can see that "Partial Preterism" is as nuanced as "Premillennialism", ie. there are multiple viewpoints under an umbrella heading. I'll address as best as I can below:

According to partial preterism that you lean toward, there is no rapture, and passages describing the tribulation and the Antichrist are actually referring to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD and the Roman emperor Titus.
Actually, this is not necessarily correct. Just like the term "partial" is not quantitative, but qualitative, many of us Partial Preterists believe that "The Tribulation" has been going on since the Church was first persecuted, and that there are actually many schools of thought on who "The Antichrist" is. I am of the belief that it is not / was not / will not be one particular person; instead, it is those who persecute Christians and the Gospel in general.

Partial preterists do believe in the return of Christ to earth and a future resurrection and judgment, but they do not teach a millennial kingdom or that Israel as a nation has a place in God’s future plan.
Actually, they do teach that ethnic Jews have a special place in God's future plans. It surely is clear from Romans that they are the ones to whom God made his promises. We non-Jews are saved by being included in these promises. I assume this is clear to you that the ethnic Jews have a special place in God's heart?.

According to partial preterists, the Bible’s references to “the last days” are speaking of the last days of the Old Jewish Covenant, not the last days of the earth itself.
Actually, this is not correct of the Partial Preterism that I know. The "last days" started after Jesus returned to the Father.

Now I do not want to argue with anyone but in order for partial preterists to maintain their position, you must insist that the book of Revelation was written early, before AD 70.
That MUST be done so as to make the theology fit with the destruction in 70 AD simply because John would have known of that event.
Now this to me is a key point where I am still unsure of Partial Preterism. I have started a new thread to discuss this. I hope you can see that I'm not closed-minded by doing this...

You should also understand that you must use an inconsistent hermeneutic when interpreting prophetic passages. According to the preterist view you have chosen of the end times, chapters 6—18 of Revelation are highly symbolic, and do not describe any literal events.
I quite simply disagree entirely with this and wouldn't say this is a common Partial preterist viewpoint. I think that while Rev 6 - 18 are highly symbolic, that they most certainly describe literal events; just not as you are expecting. For example, the mark of the beast. I have discussed this at length in a couple of other threads if you wish to look more into this.

Since the destruction of Jerusalem did not involve the wholesale destruction of sea life as seen in Revelation 16:3, or agonizing darkness in verse 10, these judgments are interpreted by the preterist as purely allegorical.
Not necessarily. Like the Garden of Eden was a shadow of the future state of Mankind in the New Heavens and New Earth, so the destruction of Jerusalem was a shadow of what is to come at the end of the Last Days.

However, according to preterists, chapter 19 is to be understood literally—Jesus Christ will physically return. But chapter 20 is again interpreted allegorically by preterists, while chapters 21—22 are understood literally, at least in part, in that there will truly be a new heaven and new earth.

Now, not to disrespect you or anyone else, but I for one am just not smart enough to be able to do that kind of distinguishing between what is LITERAL and what is MAKE BELIEVE. That is why I have said and still say that Preterism in any form is false and wrong.

No one denies that Revelation contains amazing and sometimes confusing visions. No one denies that Revelation describes many things figuratively—that’s the nature of apocalyptic literature. However, to arbitrarily deny the literal nature of select portions of Revelation is to destroy the basis of interpreting any of the book literally. If the plagues, witnesses, beast, false prophet, millennial kingdom, etc., are all allegorical, then on what basis do we claim that the second coming of Christ and the new earth are literal? That is the failure of preterism—it leaves the interpretation of Revelation to the opinions of the interpreter.
Actually, the method of distinguishing what is literal and what is figurative, or allegorical (not "MAKE BELIEVE" as you assert in your quote) is much stronger and robust in the hermeneutic used by partial preterists.

Let us break it down. To assert that "I can't work out what is literal and what is make believe, so I'll just assume it is all literal" is not actually a good method of studying the Bible. Why should one assume that all of Revelation, or any part of the Bible, is completely literal? I actually think that partial preterists look objectively at the text without the "It must be literal" rigid framework clouding their study. Now one must be clear that if you don't rigidly hold to the entire Bible being literal, it is NOT NECESSARILY a slippery slope to liberalism. All partial preterists I know use the phrase "Scripture must interpret Scripture". This means, if you are unsure of the meaning of a specific passage, you check it against other scripture to determine the meaning and look at the Word as a whole.

Anytime we take the stance that we can make the Scriptures say what we want them to say to support our thinking........we have made a grave mistake. NO ONE has that kind of ability.
I totally agree with this statement. I would insist, however, that the premill rapture view is guilty of this more than the Partial Preterists...

Blessing to you and I hope you understand that I am note attacking YOU in anyway, just posting the reality of your chosen position.
Blessings to you too! Like I said earlier, I still believe that the dating of Revelation is an issue for me as a partial preterist. I hope you can see that since I've started a new thread to discuss this that I am not doggedly refusing to see other points of view.
 
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Riberra

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You are dodging the verses I am referring to...

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads [no crowns, Riberra] and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Revelation 12 is the full seven year 70th week
Revelation 12:3-22 is about Satan who will be cast out of Heaven just before the Second Half of the tribulation.....
Revelation 13 is the second half of the seven year 70th week.
The last 42 months of the tribulation.

Riberra, do you have any idea of why there are crowns on the heads in Revelation 12, but not in Revelation 13?
Because the Beast of Revelation 13:4-5 [the angel of the bottomless pit]who is only a 'subaltern' subordinate of Satan on the Earth wait to get power from the great red dragon (Satan), having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. ....

Revelation 13:4-5
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
 
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Major1

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Hello Mr Major,

Thank you for your reply. I would like to humbly correct you from my limited knowledge of partial preterism. I would like to hope you can see that "Partial Preterism" is as nuanced as "Premillennialism", ie. there are multiple viewpoints under an umbrella heading. I'll address as best as I can below:


Actually, this is not necessarily correct. Just like the term "partial" is not quantitative, but qualitative, many of us Partial Preterists believe that "The Tribulation" has been going on since the Church was first persecuted, and that there are actually many schools of thought on who "The Antichrist" is. I am of the belief that it is not / was not / will not be one particular person; instead, it is those who persecute Christians and the Gospel in general.


Actually, they do teach that ethnic Jews have a special place in God's future plans. It surely is clear from Romans that they are the ones to whom God made his promises. We non-Jews are saved by being included in these promises. I assume this is clear to you that the ethnic Jews have a special place in God's heart?.


Actually, this is not correct of the Partial Preterism that I know. The "last days" started after Jesus returned to the Father.


Now this to me is a key point where I am still unsure of Partial Preterism. I have started a new thread to discuss this. I hope you can see that I'm not closed-minded by doing this...


I quite simply disagree entirely with this and wouldn't say this is a common Partial preterist viewpoint. I think that while Rev 6 - 18 are highly symbolic, that they most certainly describe literal events; just not as you are expecting. For example, the mark of the beast. I have discussed this at length in a couple of other threads if you wish to look more into this.


Not necessarily. Like the Garden of Eden was a shadow of the future state of Mankind in the New Heavens and New Earth, so the destruction of Jerusalem was a shadow of what is to come at the end of the Last Days.


Actually, the method of distinguishing what is literal and what is figurative, or allegorical (not "MAKE BELIEVE" as you assert in your quote) is much stronger and robust in the hermeneutic used by partial preterists.

Let us break it down. To assert that "I can't work out what is literal and what is make believe, so I'll just assume it is all literal" is not actually a good method of studying the Bible. Why should one assume that all of Revelation, or any part of the Bible, is completely literal? I actually think that partial preterists look objectively at the text without the "It must be literal" rigid framework clouding their study. Now one must be clear that if you don't rigidly hold to the entire Bible being literal, it is NOT NECESSARILY a slippery slope to liberalism. All partial preterists I know use the phrase "Scripture must interpret Scripture". This means, if you are unsure of the meaning of a specific passage, you check it against other scripture to determine the meaning and look at the Word as a whole.


I totally agree with this statement. I would insist, however, that the premill rapture view is guilty of this more than the Partial Preterists...

Blessings to you too! Like I said earlier, I still believe that the dating of Revelation is an issue for me as a partial preterist. I hope you can see that since I've started a new thread to discuss this that I am not doggedly refusing to see other points of view.

Thank you for you respectful comments. I would like to tell you what I see as the concern and I do that with no disrespect to you position.

Now, you said.............
"Actually, this is not correct of the Partial Preterism that I know."

May I say to you that I have for several years taught the errors of Preterist position. What I posted is what is the accepted theology of the Partial Preterits Theology as taught by their leaders.

What YOU personally believe may be convoluted or altered a bit by your own perception of their teachings as compared to Bible truth, hence your comment "THAT I KNOW.
 
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Major1

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The stoning of Stephen ended the 490 years who were allowed by God to the Jews of that time to anoint the Messiah during the FIRST COMING.... which the Jews rejected...

The return of Jesus will happen AFTER the Great Tribulation Matthew 24:29-31...When a remnant of the Jews will see Jesus Coming In Glory they will finally accept Jesus as their true Messiah.

Question......Did you choose your online name of RIBERRA to honor the Spanish Jesuit, Francisco Riberra????

The stoning of Stephen DID NOT end the 490 years. For three and a half more years, Jesus appealed to the Jewish people. In the fall of 34 A.D., the apostle Stephen made his final appeal for the Jewish nation to repent. The Jewish leaders not only rejected the appeal, they stoned Stephen.

At the death of Stephen, the gospel went to the Gentiles. Individual Jews can still be saved, but now God works through the Lord Jesus Christ and not the rituals of the Temple or Jewish.
The Church is now made up of believing Jews and Gentiles. The church is the body of Christ, and is also His bride. We are a chosen people, a royal priesthood of New Testament believers as told to us in 1 Peter 2:9.

YES........Matt. 24:29-31 is the picture of Christ's 2nd Coming.

It is NOT the church in view in those verses but the nation of Israel as angels are not associated with the Rapture with took place 7 years before Matt. 24:29-31.
 
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Revealing Times

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The truth is that Messiah and His Disciples fulfilled the 70th week of Daniel, from 27-34 A.D., when they confirmed with the Jews for 7 years that He is the promised Messiah, who ratified the everlasting covenant with His blood as the Passover Lamb.



The final act showing that the Jews have rejected Messiah is that they have killed Jesus in the middle of the 70th week


The seven years ended when the Jewish leaders stoned the Apostle Stephen to death, when he proclaimed that they had killed their promised Messiah.

End of the allowed 490 years.....The Punishment upon the Jews happened in the generation who have rejected Messiah ie destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD.

The Jews who have converted to Christ have fled Jerusalem and went in the wilderness as Jesus have warned them in Luke 21:20-23 which is a parallel verse of Matthew 24:1-19

The Church in Judea and Samaria (Acts 8:5-12) | cofcnet

Growth in Jerusalem the first days of the Kingdom was phenomenal! Truly the "time was fulfilled". Within days the church numbered near 10,000 and was drawing incredible attention, which is good for growth but now the persecution promised by Christ has begun. Stephen has given his life for the cause of Christ and a young zealous Pharisee named Saul has emerged on the scene as the chief antagonist of the Church. But instead of smothering Christianity, it serves only to fan the flame though the entire Judean world.

Leaving Jerusalem (Acts 8:1-4):
Time
Stephen's Death - thought to be around A.D. 34 or 35
"At that time" - does not refer to the particular day of Stephen's death, but the general time frame
The "spreading" believed to have occurred around A.D. 37
Great persecution drives Christians from Jerusalem (Acts 8:1)
Many were taken from home and brought into prisons (Acts 8:3)
Many were put to death (Acts 22:4; Acts 26:10)
The Jews would beat them in attempts to get them to blaspheme (Acts 26:11)
This persecution was at the direction of the chief priests (Acts 9:14; Acts 26:10)
To avoid persecution, Christians spread throughout all of Judea and Samaria (Acts 8:1)
Samaria was north of Judea and south of Galilee
Apostles remained in Jerusalem - not told why at this point
Some went as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus, and Antioch (Acts 11:19)
Some may have gone as far as Rome (Romans 16:7) - Andronicus and Junia were in Christ before Paul
They went everywhere preaching the word (Acts 8:4)
At this point, Gentiles were still kept from the kingdom
They were preaching to the Jews only (Acts 11:19)
What seemed to be a horrible tragedy was actually God's providence providing for the world to be taught the Gospel!
When we become discouraged about the task of spreading the Gospel, think of the daunting task facing the early Church!
Philip in Samaria (Acts 8:5-25)
Philip the evangelist, not the apostle
This couldn't have been Philip the apostle because the apostles remained in Jerusalem (Acts 8:1)
This was Philip the evangelist (Acts 21:8), the same one that was one of the seven named to care for the widows in Acts 6:3-6
Acts 8:14 also seems to speak of the apostles as not including Philip ("Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John")
When named one of the seven, the apostles laid hands on Philip, giving him the power to perform the miracles that are mentioned in this chapter (Acts 8:6)
The Samaritans
Samaria was a country, but also a city (many refer to as Sebaste)
Although it was north of Jerusalem, it was at a lower elevation (which explains the fact that Philip went down to Samaria)
Samaritans were bitter enemies of the Jews (John 4:9 ". . . the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.") They were half-breeds, Jews that had been intermingled with heathen peoples.
In what has been called the limited commission, Jesus had earlier instructed the disciples to not preach in the cities of the Samaritans, but only to the "the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matt. 10:5-6)
But Jesus, after his resurrection, had said the Gospel would be preached in all Judaea and in Samaria (Acts 1:8)
Some Samaritans had heard the word taught before by Jesus and many believed (John 4:39-42),
Nevertheless, the Samaritans had never heard the Gospel after the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus until Philip (and many still held to the view that the Messiah would come and establish a kingdom and rebuild the temple on Mount Gerazim) (John 4:25)
We know that these particular individuals were under the delusions of an impostor known as Simon (Acts 8:9-11)
Some have said this work of Philip in Samaria was the stepping stone to the work among the Gentiles.
The success of the Gospel in Samaria
The people readily and unanimously accepted the word (Acts 8:6)
The purpose of miracles for the early church was revealed, as the Samaritans were led to believe, at least in part, based on seeing the miracles Philip performed (Acts 8:6-7)
These miracles may have been particularly needful to expose the fraud of Simon (Acts 8:9-11)
When they believed, they were baptized (Acts 8:12) (the natural response to belief - Acts 2:38 and many other examples in Acts)
Great joy came to the city (Acts 8:8)
The apostles Peter and John came from Jerusalem to Samaria to encourage the believers in Samaria and confer the Holy Ghost upon them (Acts 8:14-17).
It appears that Philip, while having the power to perform miracles, did not have the power to confer gifts to others. It was necessary that the apostles come for this task.
The Samaritans had been baptized, receiving the remission of sins, but not miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:16)
Disappointment in Samaria - Simon
Simon had deceived the people of Samaria for some time, passing himself off as some kind of divine power (Acts 8:9-11)
He also believed the teaching of Philip and was baptized (Acts 8:13)
He was amazed at the miracles which Philip did (Acts 8:13 - the meaning of the word translated "wondered" carries the meaning of amazement at the miracles and signs). Contrasted with his own phony act, Simon was amazed at one that truly performed these miracles.
This fascination with the power given to Philip is one sign of the trouble that was to fall upon Simon. Nevertheless, there is nothing from which we could conclude that Simon's belief or baptism was insincere. In fact, the Bible said he believed!
Thus Simon, like the other believing Samaritans, was a baptized believer enjoying God's forgiveness. An amazing triumph for the early church!
Simon, however, was the unfortunate early example of our ability to fall away from God's grace and of how to return to God
Simon wanted to buy the power to bestow the gifts of the Holy Ghost to others (Acts 8:18-19)
Given his background, it is perhaps not too surprising that Satan would attack the heart of Simon in this way
Peter tells Simon in stern language that he is in sin and has no right to this power
God's plan for Fallen Christians
Peter told Simon his heart was not right in God's sight (Acts 8:21)
He told him to repent of his wickedness and pray God for forgiveness
This same plan is given in other parts of God's word (2 Tim 2:24-26; I John 1:8-10)
Simon gives a sign of his repentance by asking Peter to pray for him (Acts 8:24)
Peter and John preach in other villages of the Samaritans on the way back to Jerusalem
Lessons from Samaria
God's word was effective in bringing together former enemies
God's word was effective in turning around the life of a former impostor that falsely claimed divine power
While preaching the Gospel, seeming triumphs may end in disappointment (Matt. 10:20-22 - the parable of the sower). Nevertheless, one need not get down and must continue to preach to others as did Peter and John returning to Jerusalem.
Christians can be forgiven for sins after baptism by repentance and prayer
The Church in Judea and Samaria (Acts 8:5-12) | cofcnet

Daniels 70 Week Decree against Israel

In Daniel 9:24, Daniel prophesied that these six things must come to pass before this judgment against Israel would be fulfilled. Some think Jesus fulfilled all of these, most seem to think, as I do, that these things have not come to pass, and when they do that will be the end of the age.

1. Finish the transgression
2. Make and end of sins
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness
5. To seal up vision and prophecy
6. Anoint the most Holy

1. The Hebrew word used for transgression denotes revolt or rebellion. The Jewish people chose to reject God, many chose to stay in Babylon once they were freed. It also denotes their rejection of Jesus Christ. Jesus prophesied in Matthew 23:39 that the Jewish people would not see him again until they accepted him. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. So in order for Jesus to return, Israel has to repent of their rejection of God and Jesus, and Israel will open their hearts to the Messiah, as Paul, Isaiah and Zechariah (Zechariah 12:10) prophesied, among others.

2. This is fairly straightforward, sins can only end when the millennial reign starts, so by the time this 70 week decree is over, Jesus will have returned to set up his kingdom, ushering in the millennial kingdom where there will be no sins. Since the tribulation week is the last week of the 70 weeks decree, that makes perfect sense, as soon as the tribulation period ends, or the "time of Jacob's trouble", then "sins will end".

3. Israel has to be reconciled unto God before the 70 weeks have been fulfilled. There is no doubt that Jesus died for all of our sins, thus the atonement for sins has been made, but there is a conditional requirement for all of us to receive that atonement, we must accept Jesus as our Savior. When Israel accepts the Messiah Jesus, as their Messiah, then the atonement for sins will have been completed, and Israel will have been reconciled unto God, thereby ushering in the millennial kingdom.

4. This 70 week decree has to bring in everlasting righteousness, and we know this can not happen until Jesus sets up his Kingdom. This world has always had sin, and always will until Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. By the time Daniels prophecy ends, it must usher in everlasting righteousness.

5. Seal up vision and prophecy, the word used here denotes to close up, meaning that before this 70th week can come to an end, all prophecy must be fulfilled or closed up. This will only happen when Israel accepts Jesus as their Messiah and he lands on Mt. Zion to rule over this wicked world with a rod of iron.

6. The very last goal that this 70 week prophecy has to usher in is the anointing of the most holy. The bible says most holy, many try to add holy place, but whether it is the temple being anointed, or Jesus Christ as Lord of Lord and Kings of Kings as I suspect, we know this must happen before the 70 weeks decree is fulfilled. And Jesus must return and rule on earth.

All six of these things have to happen before this prophecy is fulfilled. These are six spiritual goals that have to come to pass or this prophecy will not be finished or sealed up. We know these things have not come to pass yet, but we also know they are very near to happening, therefore watch, for Israel is now a nation again, and the world is against her, soon she will need her Messiah s help, then she will call upon him, and he will save her from this wicked world.
 
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Riberra

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Daniels 70 Week Decree against Israel

In Daniel 9:24, Daniel prophesied that these six things must come to pass before this judgment against Israel would be fulfilled. Some think Jesus fulfilled all of these, most seem to think, as I do, that these things have not come to pass, and when they do that will be the end of the age.

1. Finish the transgression
2. Make and end of sins
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness
5. To seal up vision and prophecy
6. Anoint the most Holy
Do we agree that the full 70 weeks of Daniel 9:23-27 correspond to a time frame of 490 years consecutive that was allowed by God into which the Jews at that time must fulfill the commandment made by God
To:
1. Finish the transgression
2. Make and end of sins
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness
5. To seal up vision and prophecy
6. Anoint the most Holy

If all that was not accomplished in the 490 years time frame allowed, a terrible punishment will happen upon the generation of the JEWS that will be alive during the FIRST COMING of the Messiah.
 
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Revealing Times

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Do we agree that the full 70 weeks of Daniel 9:23-27 correspond to a time frame of 490 years consecutive that was allowed by God into which the Jews at that time must fulfill the commandment made by God
To:
1. Finish the transgression
2. Make and end of sins
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness
5. To seal up vision and prophecy
6. Anoint the most Holy

If all that was not accomplished in the 490 years time frame allowed, a terrible punishment will happen upon the generation of the JEWS that will be alive during the FIRST COMING of the Messiah.
The Anti-Christ Conquers Israel, and kills Billions of people on earth. Thee is nothing worse than that.

1. The Transgression is clearly NOT FINISHED,
Israel has not accepted Jesus as their Messiah.

2. Sins have not ended and can not until Jesus Returns.

3. Israel has not reconciled itself to God.

4. Only Jesus can bring in everlasting righteousness
.

5. All Prophecy is not fulfilled.

6. Jesus will be anointed King of Kings/Lord of Lords.

It is actually Seventy Sevens.....not Seventy Weeks per se.
 
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Riberra

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Question......Did you choose your online name of RIBERRA to honor the Spanish Jesuit, Francisco Riberra????
No,it come from Mr Arriba an ancient avatar that i used on an astromomy site. Mr Arriba [anagram] minus the [M] and replacing a letter became Riberra.

The stoning of Stephen DID NOT end the 490 years. For three and a half more years, Jesus appealed to the Jewish people. In the fall of 34 A.D., the apostle Stephen made his final appeal for the Jewish nation to repent. The Jewish leaders not only rejected the appeal, they stoned Stephen.
Stephen death was after the the Jews have caused Jesus to be put to Death....Stephen was stoned to death because he preached that the Jews have killed their promised Messiah.

Stephen's Death - thought to be around A.D. 34 or 35
 
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Riberra

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It is actually Seventy Sevens.....not Seventy Weeks per se.
'Seventy Sevens'
Really ?
Daniel 9:23-24
23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
 
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Revealing Times

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'Seventy Sevens'
Really ?
Daniel 9:23-24
23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Which means you need to quit relying solely on an ENGLISH TRANSLATION. I use an online-Bible that has the original Hebrew root words and the Definitions.....

שִׁבְעִים
shib`iym
{shib-eem'}Multiple of H7651; seventy." style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(237, 233, 207); font-size: 10px; vertical-align: top; font-family: "courier new", verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; font-weight: bold; text-align: justify;">7657 weeks {7620} Prime
שָׁבוּעַ
shabuwa`
{shaw-boo'-ah}Properly passive participle of H7650 as a denominative of H7651; literally sevened, that is, a week (specifically of years)." style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(237, 233, 207); font-size: 10px; vertical-align: top; font-family: "courier new", verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; font-weight: bold; text-align: justify;">7620 are determined {2852} Prime
חָתַךְ
chathak
{khaw-thak'}A primitive root; properly to cut off, that is, (figuratively) to decree." style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(237, 233, 207); font-size: 10px; vertical-align: top; font-family: "courier new", verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; font-weight: bold; text-align: justify;">2852 <8738>
The Words used for Week does not mean WEEK it literally means SEVENED.
  • #7620.
  • שָׁבוּעַ
  • shabua (988d); from 7651; a period of seven (days, years), heptad, week:—
It means a PERIOD OF SEVENS..... 70 Sevens have been DECREED. Then we see that Daniel says there will be THREE of these Periods or Sets of SEVENS....A 7X7 a 62x7 and a period of 1x7.

70 Sevens have been decreed upon you ISRAEL. You guys want to limit God to consecutive time periods, God has a different idea.

The Pentecost or the Church Age came in between the Spring Feasts and the Fall Feasts.
 
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Major1

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No,it come from Mr Arriba an ancient avatar that i used on an astromomy site. Mr Arriba [anagram] minus the [M] and replacing a letter became Riberra.


Stephen death was after the the Jews have caused Jesus to be put to Death....Stephen was stoned to death because he preached that the Jews have killed their promised Messiah.

Stephen's Death - thought to be around A.D. 34 or 35

It does not matter what year Stephen died. His death DID NOT end the 490 years.
The 70 sevens are divided into three separate units—seven sevens, 62 sevens and one seven. During the first time period (49 years) Jerusalem would be “built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times.” The second block of time (62 sevens, a total of 434 years) immediately followed the first for a total of 69 sevens, or 483 years.

It is at this point that we are told what the ending point is of the 69 sevens: “unto Messiah the Prince.” As clearly as Daniel could have stated it, he taught that 483 years after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem had been issued, Messiah would be here on earth.

The obvious conclusion is this: If Messiah was not on earth 483 years after a decree was issued to rebuild Jerusalem, then Daniel was a false prophet and his book has no business being in the Hebrew Scriptures. But if Daniel was correct and his prophecy was fulfilled, then who was the Messiah of whom he spoke?

The city and the temple that were to be rebuilt because of the decree by which the 70 sevens began would now be destroyed. So sometime after the Messiah was cut off, Jerusalem and the temple would suffer another destruction. Our knowledge of history during this period is extremely clear: the people responsible for this deed were the Romans, and Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed in year 70 C. E. Based upon this verse, it is also clear that the Messiah should have both come and died prior to the year 70 C.E. If such an event did not take place, then Daniel was a false prophet. If such an event did occur, then the question must be answered, who was that Messiah who was killed before 70 C.E.?

First, the 70th seven will begin only with the signing of a seven-year covenant or treaty between Israel and a major gentile political leader.

Secondly, in the middle of that period, that is, after 3 1/2 years, this gentile leader will break his treaty with Israel and cause a cessation of the sacrificial system. The implication here is that by this time a temple in Jerusalem will have been rebuilt again and the sacrificial system of Moses re-instituted, but then will be forcefully ceased.

Thirdly, the result of the breaking of this covenant is that the temple will now be abominated. The ” abomination” refers to an image or an idol. As it was in the days of Antiochus Epiphanes, so it will be again in the future when a gentile ruler will abominate the temple by means of idolatry.

Fourthly, the abomination is to be followed by wrath and desolation, persecution and warfare, for the remaining half of the 70th seven (the final 3 1/2 years). This is similar to the trials and tribulations the rabbis spoke of as preparation for the establishment of the messianic kingdom. These terrible days were referred to as “the footsteps of the Messiah.”

But once those days have run their course, the last three things predicted in verse 24 will occur: After this period the age of righteousness will be brought in, in which the most holy place will be anointed and every vision and prophecy be fulfilled. At this point the messianic kingdom for which the prophet Daniel yearned will be set up AND THAT WILL END THE 490 YEARS!!!!
 
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Major1

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'Seventy Sevens'
Really ?
Daniel 9:23-24
23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

YES.......REALLY!

Most people and Bible scolars know the Hebrew for “weeks” because of the observance of the Feast of Weeks, and that Hebrew word is shavuot. However, the word that appears in the Hebrew text is shavuim, which means “sevens.” The word refers to a “seven” of anything, and the context determines the content of the seven.

Here it is obvious Daniel had been thinking in terms of years—specifically the 70 years of captivity. Daniel had assumed that the captivity would end after 70 years and that the kingdom would be established after 70 years. But here Gabriel was using a play upon words in the Hebrew text, pointing out that insofar as Messiah’s kingdom was concerned, it was not “70 years,” but “70 sevens of years,” a total of 490 years or 70 times seven.
 
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Riberra

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It does not matter what year Stephen died. His death DID NOT end the 490 years.
The 70 sevens are divided into three separate units—seven sevens, 62 sevens and one seven. During the first time period (49 years) Jerusalem would be “built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times.” The second block of time (62 sevens, a total of 434 years) immediately followed the first for a total of 69 sevens, or 483 years.

It is at this point that we are told what the ending point is of the 69 sevens: “unto Messiah the Prince.” As clearly as Daniel could have stated it, he taught that 483 years after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem had been issued, Messiah would be here on earth.

The obvious conclusion is this: If Messiah was not on earth 483 years after a decree was issued to rebuild Jerusalem, then Daniel was a false prophet and his book has no business being in the Hebrew Scriptures. But if Daniel was correct and his prophecy was fulfilled, then who was the Messiah of whom he spoke?

The city and the temple that were to be rebuilt because of the decree by which the 70 sevens began would now be destroyed. So sometime after the Messiah was cut off, Jerusalem and the temple would suffer another destruction. Our knowledge of history during this period is extremely clear: the people responsible for this deed were the Romans, and Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed in year 70 C. E. Based upon this verse, it is also clear that the Messiah should have both come and died prior to the year 70 C.E. If such an event did not take place, then Daniel was a false prophet. If such an event did occur, then the question must be answered, who was that Messiah who was killed before 70 C.E.?

First, the 70th seven will begin only with the signing of a seven-year covenant or treaty between Israel and a major gentile political leader.

Secondly, in the middle of that period, that is, after 3 1/2 years, this gentile leader will break his treaty with Israel and cause a cessation of the sacrificial system. The implication here is that by this time a temple in Jerusalem will have been rebuilt again and the sacrificial system of Moses re-instituted, but then will be forcefully ceased.

Thirdly, the result of the breaking of this covenant is that the temple will now be abominated. The ” abomination” refers to an image or an idol. As it was in the days of Antiochus Epiphanes, so it will be again in the future when a gentile ruler will abominate the temple by means of idolatry.

Fourthly, the abomination is to be followed by wrath and desolation, persecution and warfare, for the remaining half of the 70th seven (the final 3 1/2 years). This is similar to the trials and tribulations the rabbis spoke of as preparation for the establishment of the messianic kingdom. These terrible days were referred to as “the footsteps of the Messiah.”

But once those days have run their course, the last three things predicted in verse 24 will occur: After this period the age of righteousness will be brought in, in which the most holy place will be anointed and every vision and prophecy be fulfilled. At this point the messianic kingdom for which the prophet Daniel yearned will be set up AND THAT WILL END THE 490 YEARS!!!!
There is no time gap between the 69 th week and the end of the 70 th weeks.
To be a true prophecy the Seventy Weeks Prophecy of Daniel 9 was supposed to offer the believer the identity of the Messiah by showing the exact time in which he would appear. ...and also the finalization of the 490 years time allowed for the Jews to finish their transgression and anoint the Messiah.
Here the details:
When Was Stephen Stoned?

The 70 Weeks Prophecy begins with the first sacrifice offered on the rebuilt altar on the Temple mount when Joshua, the High Priest, and Zerubbabel returned from the captivity. The Jews began to make daily offerings to God from the first day of the seventh month upon their return from captivity (Ezra 3:6). This is a very important date, as it represents the first time in decades that worship of the God of Israel was offered from the Temple mount, and it represents the “firstfruits” of the decree of the emperor, which I believe is implied in the prophecy. So, the date of the decree itself is not important, but date of the firstfruits of that decree is the important part of the prophecy in terms of when it begins. The Messiah was to come at the beginning of the 70th week or 483 years after the first sacrifice was offered by the returning captives.

No matter which year one chooses to begin the 70 Weeks Prophecy, the 484th year must begin in the fall and on the Feast of Trumpets. I submit that from Luke 4:16 and up to Luke 6:49 Luke shows Jesus beginning his ministry on the Feast of Trumpets (Luke 4:16) and each Sabbath mentioned thereafter is either an annual Holy Day or a seventh day Sabbath. The odd “second Sabbath after the first” in Luke 6:1 is the seventh day Sabbath which occurred in that year back to back with the annual Day of Atonement, a fast day, which is why the Apostles were hungry and began to take some grain from the fields on the Sabbath day, rubbing it in their hands and eating the kernels.

Anyway, long-story-short, 3 ½ years later Jesus was crucified, and the 70 Weeks prophecy foretold the Messiah would be ‘cut’ (offered for the covenant) in the midst or the middle of the prophetic week (Daniel 9:26-27). The 70th week comprises 7 years, 3 ½ of which represented Jesus public ministry culminating in his crucifixion and resurrection. The final period of 3 ½ years or the second part of the 70th prophetic week was fulfilled by Jesus through the ministry of the Apostles up to the time of Stephen’s death. Blood was shed in the midst of the week, and blood was shed at the culmination of the week.

Notice in Luke 10:18 that Jesus said he beheld Satan like lightning fall from heaven. This is shown in Revelation 12:7-10 where Michael/Jesus makes war with Satan. Now I am not saying Jesus is an angelic being, but I am saying Michel is Jesus—the Angel of the LORD who is God in the Old Testament. Anyway, Jesus with his disciples were waging spiritual warfare against Satan’s kingdom (cp. Luke 10:17). The angels in Revelation 12 represent the messengers of Jesus and Satan respectively. In the Gospels they are Jesus’ disciples waging war against Satan or the Pharisees and High Priests who fought against Jesus and his disciples.

Notice in Revelation 12:6 the woman (the Jewish believers) had a place of safety for 1260 days. This is the first part of the 70th prophetic week and represents Jesus care for his disciples—they were safe, and he lost no one. In the second part of the week the disciples were also safe according to Revelation 12:14. The believers were spiritually nourished for a time (1) + times (2) and half a time (1/2) or 3 ½ years. Daniel divides his 70th week up in Daniel 12 into portions of time, times and half a time (1260 days in Revelation), 1290 days (Revelation’s time, times and half a time) and 1335 days. I have argued in previous posts that all these days in Jesus’ ministry begin and end on annual Holy Days, or on an important day within those annual Feast Days, and same is true for the first few years of the ministry of the Apostles. Those studies can be found HERE, HERE and HERE respectively.

The point is there is a compelling argument that the Seventy Weeks Prophecy is fulfilled. There is no authority to remove the 70th week from the 1st century and place it in our day. That said, there is also a compelling argument showing Stephen’s death represents the end of the “safe” period for believers in Jesus. Both portions of the 70th week show Jesus’ disciples protected, but also both portions end with the shedding of blood under similar circumstances in a “kangaroo-court” that was bent upon shedding the blood of the accused.

Therefore, Stephen was stoned in the fall of 34 or 35 CE at the latest (depending upon the year Jesus began his public ministry 27 or 28 CE). This would put Caiaphas as High Priest at the stoning of Stephen (Acts 7:1). Jonathan would be the new High Priest in 36 CE in Acts 9:1, but his tenure lasted only a year and a half, or from Passover in 36 CE to the fall Festivals in 37 CE. So Theophilus would have been the High Priest immediately following Paul’s conversion in Acts 9:17-20. However, since Paul didn’t arrive at Jerusalem until 3 years afterward (Galatians 1:18), Theophilus would have continued the persecution of Jewish believers in Jesus until about 39 CE, when Caius Caesar’s determination to place a statue of himself in the Temple at Jerusalem became more important than perusing Jews who believed in Jesus and preached Stephen’s Gospel that all people are equally acceptable to God. It was this event concerning the image of Caius Caesar rather than the conversion of Paul that brought peace and a cessation of persecution of believers in Jesus (Acts 9:31).
 
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Do we agree that the full 70 weeks of Daniel 9:23-27 correspond to a time frame of 490 years consecutive that was allowed by God into which the Jews at that time must fulfill the commandment made by God
To:
1. Finish the transgression
2. Make and end of sins
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness
5. To seal up vision and prophecy
6. Anoint the most Holy

If all that was not accomplished in the 490 years time frame allowed, a terrible punishment will happen upon the generation of the JEWS that will be alive during the FIRST COMING of the Messiah.

NO we can not agree on that.

The 70 sevens are divided into three separate units..........
1). Seven sevens,
2). 62 sevens
3). and one seven.

During the first time period which was 49 years, Jerusalem would be “built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times.”

The second block of time which was 62 sevens, or a total of 434 years immediately followed the first for a total of 69 sevens, or 483 years.

It is at this point that we are told what the ending point is of the 69 sevens:
“unto Messiah the Prince.” As clearly as Daniel could have stated it, he taught that 483 years after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem had been issued, Messiah would be here on earth.

The obvious conclusion is this: If Messiah was not on earth 483 years after a decree was issued to rebuild Jerusalem, then Daniel was a false prophet and his book has no business being in the Hebrew Scriptures. But if Daniel was correct and his prophecy was fulfilled, then who was the Messiah of whom he spoke? The Lord Jesus Christ!!!
 
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Riberra

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NO we can not agree on that.

The 70 sevens are divided into three separate units..........
1). Seven sevens,
2). 62 sevens
3). and one seven.

During the first time period which was 49 years, Jerusalem would be “built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times.”

The second block of time which was 62 sevens, or a total of 434 years immediately followed the first for a total of 69 sevens, or 483 years.

It is at this point that we are told what the ending point is of the 69 sevens:
“unto Messiah the Prince.” As clearly as Daniel could have stated it, he taught that 483 years after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem had been issued, Messiah would be here on earth.

The obvious conclusion is this: If Messiah was not on earth 483 years after a decree was issued to rebuild Jerusalem, then Daniel was a false prophet and his book has no business being in the Hebrew Scriptures. But if Daniel was correct and his prophecy was fulfilled, then who was the Messiah of whom he spoke? The Lord Jesus Christ!!!
True ....thus Daniel 9:23-27 have been fulfilled DURING THE FIRST COMING OF JESUS....the Jews have not accepted Jesus as being their promised Messiah...and they have not ceased their transgression...thus the City and the temple have been destroyed as prophesied by Daniel.
 
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