Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

[Riberra]

*The great multitude are those who are "raptured" before God's wrath begins.

Can you show us the verses from the book of Revelation saying that they have been CAUGHT UP or ''Raptured'' .

 

[keras]

And again, you are not reading and believing what 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 actually says.

What that prophecy does NOT actually say, is that anyone will go to heaven. Jesus has left heaven, come down to the earth, He sends out His angels to gather those who remain, Matthew 24:31, and He destroys the armies attacking Jerusalem. Revelation 19:17-21

Jesus prepares a place for us. He says He will ..... COME AGAIN and RECEIVE us unto Himself. Why? The verse continues to say... and quotes Jesus as saying, "That where I am, there ye may be also."

Quite right; we Christians will be with Him, on earth, Revelation 5:9-10, as He commences His Millennium reign.
The New Jerusalem He is preparing comes to earth after the Millennium. Revelation 21:1-4

Jason, you believe in a rapture to heaven. You do realize that Jesus never said He would take people to heaven? He told us what we should do and to keep strong in our faith when times get tough.
But the proof that no one goes to heaven is Jesus' own Words: John 3:13, John 8:21, John 17:15, Revelation 5:9-10

 

[Dwight55]

The word rapture is not in the Bible, but the concept is. Paul spoke of it in both 1st Corinthians 15 and 1st Thessalonians 4 where he said the dead in Christ would rise first, then those who were alive and remained would then be changed, and all would go up to be with the Lord in the air.
The order in which this works is simple, read the book of Revelation from chapter 1 thru chapter 11. Chapter 11 ends the chronological order of the events, . . . 1-5 are the pre-cursors, chapter 6 begins the end time scenario, and at the end of chapter 11, the rapture happens with the sounding of the last trumpet. That is also the end of the world as we know it.
In 1st Thessalonians 4, Paul said the trumpet would sound, in 1st Corinthians, he made sure we understood it to be the LAST TRUMPET, and as he envisioned being here, he anticipated to be alive and remain. There is absolutely no other logical and reasonable explanation for the passages where Paul addresses this event.
Rapture, . . . THE last event on terra firma as the end of time takes place.

 

[keras]

*The GT and God's wrath (DoL) are not the same.
*The DoL (Day of the Lord's wrath) has signs that precede it.
*Those signs are seen at the 6th seal.
*The great multitude are those who are "raptured" before God's wrath begins.

The terrible Day of the Lord's wrath IS the Sixth Seal disaster of cosmic events and worldwide earthquakes, plus all the vivid descriptions of that Day, prophesied many times throughout the Bible. Stars [meteors] falling, mountains moving, etc, isn't just 'signs'!
That Day, a literal day; Isaiah 10:17, Psalms 50:1-3, will change the world and set the stage for a One World Govt, and for the gathering of every true Christian, from every tribe, race, nation and language, into all of the holy Land. Ezekiel 34:11-31, Isaiah 35:1-10, Psalms 107:1-43
After the great ordeal,[tribulation] of the Sixth Seal, it is we Christians who are the great multitude, in Jerusalem, praising Jesus our Savior, Revelation 14:1, 1 Thessalonians 1:10 who will select 144,000 from among us to go out as missionaries to proclaim the coming Kingdom. Isaiah 66:19

 

[keras]

The order in which this works is simple, read the book of Revelation from chapter 1 thru chapter 11. Chapter 11 ends the chronological order of the events, . . . 1-5 are the pre-cursors, chapter 6 begins the end time scenario, and at the end of chapter 11, the rapture happens with the sounding of the last trumpet. That is also the end of the world as we know it.

So then, God's promises to the Patriarchs will fail?
God's intention to have a righteous people in His holy Land, being His witnesses and a light to the nations, Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 49:8, will never happen? I don't think so!
We humans were made to inhabit the earth. We are given tasks to do here and at the end of the 7000 year Plan of God for His creation, He will dwell with mankind on earth. Revelation 21:1-4
There is no scripture saying God will take His people to heaven, in fact Jesus refuted that idea: John 3:13

 

[miamited]

Hi preceps,

I know that this is likely to be a big, big mistake on my part, but I've decided to at least write you an answer to your last post to me.

You started:

You posted everything but the proof.

What is the proof I provided for there not being a rapture? And why did you leave it out?

The 'proof'. As far as I'm concerned there isn't really any 'proof' in your opening post to support your position. You see, I don't agree with you and therefore, I logically wouldn't find your statements and ideas that you think of as 'proof' as actually being 'proof'. I'm not an idiot. If I thought that any of your statements provided any valid 'proof' of your understanding, well then, I'd agree with you wouldn't I? You see, I see your statements not as valid 'proof', but rather, for me, quite clear misunderstanding and misapplication of the Scriptures and what they say -- not 'proof' of anything that you say.

But, I'll humor you and we'll go through it. I expect that all I'll get from you in return is merely more of the same. Rather than expounding on and explaining the 'how' and 'why' you understand your 'proof' to intend the meaning that you infer from it, you'll likely continue this odd little game you play of just throwing out poisonous darts of anything I say as being like holy water to a vampire. Such an odd turn of phrase, but it seems to be all that you can do when questioned on your points to further explain exactly why you take particular pieces of Scripture to intend what you infer from them.

I rather imagine that in many of your discussions with people you've run across this attitude from others where they just turn away and mutter under their breath, "Sheesh, what an idiot." You likely then holler down the hallway as they walk away, "Yea, that's right! Like holy water to a vampire."

Anyway, let's get started. You opened with this question:

I would like someone to please show me where a rapture is mentioned in Revelation since the only thing I see mentioned in Revelation are resurrections.

I offered an answer to your question by telling you that the word rapture isn't anywhere in all of the Scriptures, but the concept that there will be a removal of those who belong to Jesus as what we call 'the rapture' is explained in Revelation chapter 14. It tells us that there will first come one who is like the son of man and that he will first harvest the earth. It then tells us that there will come an angel after him who will harvest all those who remain on the earth after the first harvest by the son of man.

Do you deny that's what Revelation 14 says? If you do, I hope that your response to me is a little more focused on explaining to me why you don't believe that's what this piece of Scripture says, beyond just throwing out you general claim that it's like holy water to a vampire. Put some real meat and facts behind your answer, if you can. If not, then I'd respectfully request that again, you just keep your little jabs of hot air and meaninglessness to yourself.

You then wrote:

Where does it say there's a rapture if the 2nd advent, as described in the Olivet discourse, is the 2nd resurrection, where that generation, and those standing there at the time of the Olivet discourse, taste death after witnessing Christ coming into his kingdom, which is the New Yah-ru-Shalem?

The Olivet discourse is another word that you will not find in all of the Scriptures, but it refers to Jesus' private discussion with his disciples concerning the last days. The 'Olivet discourse' does tell us about the 'rapture' in Matthew 24:29-31. Now, your statement here presupposes that the 2nd advent is the 2nd resurrection. It isn't. The 2nd resurrection, as they are numbered in the Scriptures comes after the 1,000 year reign of Jesus and the rest of the dead are resurrected to the final judgment. The first resurrection, as they are numbered in the Scriptures, is when the righteous are raised up for the 1,000 year reign of Jesus. It is discussed as a completely different time and place and event as the 'rapture' in the Revelation. You wrote in this group of statements the word 'if'. Do you understand that the word 'if' means to convey that such and such is true, but only 'if' such and such is also true. The rapture, or as you say, the 2nd advent of Jesus, is not explained in the Scriptures as being the same as the 2nd resurrection, but you insist that it is. Wrong! Nowhere in all of the Scriptures is the 2nd advent of Jesus mentioned along with, or happening at the same time, as the 2nd resurrection. They are two separate events foretold in the Scriptures that happen at two different times.

Now, you likely don't agree with that understanding and that's ok for me. But you have never once actually responded civilly to anyone who has tried to show that point, that other Scripture denies such an understanding. All you've done is make gibberish claims about the holy water and vampires and generally called everyone else stupid (although you didn't actually use the word stupid) that they don't see or understand the Olivet discourse as you understand it. Beyond the calling of names and inferring that everyone else is ignorant, you've offered nothing in the way of rebuttal. That's ok with me, but I hope that you can appreciate that for most of us, such a response shows more who the ignorant one is. Someone who can't even carry on a point by point explanation of their understanding and respond with evidence to rebut another understanding; someone who thinks that just by responding with claims of another's ignorance, for me, is someone who has found some been brainwashed by some explanation that they've copied from someone else in the past, but aren't really sure, or even able, to show any real evidence that they really have a clue of understanding as to why they believe as they believe. If that's you, that's ok, but hopefully you might understand that I see right through such a thing.

If I write a rebuttal with Scriptural evidence to support why your position or understanding may not be correct, then just crying out, "Can't you see my proof", or "Didn't you read my proof", or, "you're like holy water to a vampire". Isn't really offering any further rebuttal evidence as to exactly why they think as they do. Why they understand that their Scriptural reference actually says what they think it to say.

Then you wrote:

If the Olivet discourse advent which is the gathering of the elect and the so-called 2nd return of Christ is the 2nd resurrection, when Christ supposedly returns to earth, how does anyone justify a rapture at the "1st resurrection" if there's no advent, no return of Christ to earth until the 2nd resurrection?

Yes, the Olivet discourse does discuss the gathering of the elect, but no, it is not what the Scriptures say is the first resurrection. Read the book! The first resurrection as spoken of in the very writing that you are questioning is when Jesus begins his 1,000 year reign. That 1,000 year reign seems to be clearly separated from the time spoken of, also in the Revelation, as when Jesus comes to harvest the earth. Now, the return of Christ to gather his does say that both those who are alive and those in their graves, who are his, will ascend with him into the clouds. But that will only be a spiritual resurrection. The bodily resurrection will not occur until the start of the 1,000 year reign. What Paul writes about the day when Christ will return in the clouds to gather his elect is never referred to, in the Scriptures, as 'the first resurrection'. We can pretty safely know that this will not be a bodily resurrection because they will be going to heaven. They will be a part of the saints under the alter who cry out for justice. The Scriptures do not call any event the 'first resurrection' until we get to the Revelation, chapter 20. Read it!

Now look, if all you're going to do is infer my ignorance and stupidity through a bunch of empty statements, void of any rebuttal evidence to correct my understanding or further explain yours, then let's just agree to disagree and you can go off and spit your poison at someone else. If all you're going to offer as your idea of rebuttal is to just proclaim my statments as being holy water to a vampire, then I'd appreciate your at least giving me that respect as a human being and take your empty understanding somewhere where people appreciate such things.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

 

[Riberra]

The word rapture is not in the Bible, but the concept is. Paul spoke of it in both 1st Corinthians 15 and 1st Thessalonians 4 where he said the dead in Christ would rise first, then those who were alive and remained would then be changed, and all would go up to be with the Lord in the air.
The order in which this works is simple, read the book of Revelation from chapter 1 thru chapter 11. Chapter 11 ends the chronological order of the events, . . . 1-5 are the pre-cursors, chapter 6 begins the end time scenario, and at the end of chapter 11, the rapture happens with the sounding of the last trumpet. That is also the end of the world as we know it.
In 1st Thessalonians 4, Paul said the trumpet would sound, in 1st Corinthians, he made sure we understood it to be the LAST TRUMPET, and as he envisioned being here, he anticipated to be alive and remain. There is absolutely no other logical and reasonable explanation for the passages where Paul addresses this event.
Rapture, . . . THE last event on terra firma as the end of time takes place.

The resurrection that Paul is talking about will happen UNTO the Coming of Jesus.... The thing is that Jesus tell us about His coming in Matthew 24:29-31 which will be AFTER the tribulation of those days ...This cannot be any clearer than that.Jesus will not come before the tribulation.You have been fooled by the pre-tribulation rapture crowd who have totally brainwashed you.

The resurrection and our caught up to meet Jesus in the clouds in the air is tied to the coming of Jesus after the tribulation.Nobody will go to Heaven after the resurrection...we will forever be with Jesus to reign with Him Here on the Earth.

Read carefully the Bible verses you provided 1st Corinthians 15 and 1st Thessalonians 4 you will notice that none of them talk about going up to Heaven .

John in Revelation 4 have not ascended physically to Heaven....John wrote that he was in the spirit.... The spirit of John have visited Heaven while his physical body was still on the isle of Patmos.
Revelation 4:2
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

 

[precepts]

I'm not even going to read thru all this shenanigan. I posted the proof in the opening post, so if you can't acknowledge the fact, it's on you. I don't find it to be humorous. I knew you weren't genuine from the beginning.

It has been a back and forth several times getting you to at least acknowledge the fact, but you can't! For me to be going back and forth with you all this time, trying to get you to admit it, and you respond back with there's no proof "as far as you're concern," is the ultimate act of beating around the bush. You are not for real. I find your game to be small minded.

Hi preceps,

I know that this is likely to be a big, big mistake on my part, but I've decided to at least write you an answer to your last post to me.

You started:


The 'proof'. As far as I'm concerned there isn't really any 'proof' in your opening post to support your position. You see, I don't agree with you and therefore, I logically wouldn't find your statements and ideas that you think of as 'proof' as actually being 'proof'. I'm not an idiot. If I thought that any of your statements provided any valid 'proof' of your understanding, well then, I'd agree with you wouldn't I? You see, I see your statements not as valid 'proof', but rather, for me, quite clear misunderstanding and misapplication of the Scriptures and what they say -- not 'proof' of anything that you say.

But, I'll humor you and we'll go through it. I expect that all I'll get from you in return is merely more of the same. Rather than expounding on and explaining the 'how' and 'why' you understand your 'proof' to intend the meaning that you infer from it, you'll likely continue this odd little game you play of just throwing out poisonous darts of anything I say as being like holy water to a vampire. Such an odd turn of phrase, but it seems to be all that you can do when questioned on your points to further explain exactly why you take particular pieces of Scripture to intend what you infer from them.

I rather imagine that in many of your discussions with people you've run across this attitude from others where they just turn away and mutter under their breath, "Sheesh, what an idiot." You likely then holler down the hallway as they walk away, "Yea, that's right! Like holy water to a vampire."

Anyway, let's get started. You opened with this question:


I offered an answer to your question by telling you that the word rapture isn't anywhere in all of the Scriptures, but the concept that there will be a removal of those who belong to Jesus as what we call 'the rapture' is explained in Revelation chapter 14. It tells us that there will first come one who is like the son of man and that he will first harvest the earth. It then tells us that there will come an angel after him who will harvest all those who remain on the earth after the first harvest by the son of man.

Do you deny that's what Revelation 14 says? If you do, I hope that your response to me is a little more focused on explaining to me why you don't believe that's what this piece of Scripture says, beyond just throwing out you general claim that it's like holy water to a vampire. Put some real meat and facts behind your answer, if you can. If not, then I'd respectfully request that again, you just keep your little jabs of hot air and meaninglessness to yourself.

You then wrote:


The Olivet discourse is another word that you will not find in all of the Scriptures, but it refers to Jesus' private discussion with his disciples concerning the last days. The 'Olivet discourse' does tell us about the 'rapture' in Matthew 24:29-31. Now, your statement here presupposes that the 2nd advent is the 2nd resurrection. It isn't. The 2nd resurrection, as they are numbered in the Scriptures comes after the 1,000 year reign of Jesus and the rest of the dead are resurrected to the final judgment. The first resurrection, as they are numbered in the Scriptures, is when the righteous are raised up for the 1,000 year reign of Jesus. It is discussed as a completely different time and place and event as the 'rapture' in the Revelation. You wrote in this group of statements the word 'if'. Do you understand that the word 'if' means to convey that such and such is true, but only 'if' such and such is also true. The rapture, or as you say, the 2nd advent of Jesus, is not explained in the Scriptures as being the same as the 2nd resurrection, but you insist that it is. Wrong! Nowhere in all of the Scriptures is the 2nd advent of Jesus mentioned along with, or happening at the same time, as the 2nd resurrection. They are two separate events foretold in the Scriptures that happen at two different times.

Now, you likely don't agree with that understanding and that's ok for me. But you have never once actually responded civilly to anyone who has tried to show that point, that other Scripture denies such an understanding. All you've done is make gibberish claims about the holy water and vampires and generally called everyone else stupid (although you didn't actually use the word stupid) that they don't see or understand the Olivet discourse as you understand it. Beyond the calling of names and inferring that everyone else is ignorant, you've offered nothing in the way of rebuttal. That's ok with me, but I hope that you can appreciate that for most of us, such a response shows more who the ignorant one is. Someone who can't even carry on a point by point explanation of their understanding and respond with evidence to rebut another understanding; someone who thinks that just by responding with claims of another's ignorance, for me, is someone who has found some been brainwashed by some explanation that they've copied from someone else in the past, but aren't really sure, or even able, to show any real evidence that they really have a clue of understanding as to why they believe as they believe. If that's you, that's ok, but hopefully you might understand that I see right through such a thing.

If I write a rebuttal with Scriptural evidence to support why your position or understanding may not be correct, then just crying out, "Can't you see my proof", or "Didn't you read my proof", or, "you're like holy water to a vampire". Isn't really offering any further rebuttal evidence as to exactly why they think as they do. Why they understand that their Scriptural reference actually says what they think it to say.

Then you wrote:


Yes, the Olivet discourse does discuss the gathering of the elect, but no, it is not what the Scriptures say is the first resurrection. Read the book! The first resurrection as spoken of in the very writing that you are questioning is when Jesus begins his 1,000 year reign. That 1,000 year reign seems to be clearly separated from the time spoken of, also in the Revelation, as when Jesus comes to harvest the earth. Now, the return of Christ to gather his does say that both those who are alive and those in their graves, who are his, will ascend with him into the clouds. But that will only be a spiritual resurrection. The bodily resurrection will not occur until the start of the 1,000 year reign. What Paul writes about the day when Christ will return in the clouds to gather his elect is never referred to, in the Scriptures, as 'the first resurrection'. We can pretty safely know that this will not be a bodily resurrection because they will be going to heaven. They will be a part of the saints under the alter who cry out for justice. The Scriptures do not call any event the 'first resurrection' until we get to the Revelation, chapter 20. Read it!

Now look, if all you're going to do is infer my ignorance and stupidity through a bunch of empty statements, void of any rebuttal evidence to correct my understanding or further explain yours, then let's just agree to disagree and you can go off and spit your poison at someone else. If all you're going to offer as your idea of rebuttal is to just proclaim my statments as being holy water to a vampire, then I'd appreciate your at least giving me that respect as a human being and take your empty understanding somewhere where people appreciate such things.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

You can't even acknowledge the written words because it's not in you.

 

[precepts]

Revelation 12:5 - Understand that this is a prophecy of the future, not a recap of History.

Get real!

 

[precepts]

The word Rapture is not found in the Scriptures, as a word, but the thought or teaching of the event surely is taught. First of all there are at least five Rapture timing positions that are prevalent today and they are:
1) No Rapture - no rescuing of God's Saints/Saved, no "catching up" of God's protected people, Saints/Christians
2) Pre-Tribulation timing - Saints, Christians, are taken
up, raptured, caught up into the clouds BEFORE the Seven Year Tribulation period begans. These pre-trib advocates believe that the Rapture is mentioned and symbolized in Revelation 4:1. They have no direct, literal, reference, in Revelation of the Rapture.
3) Mid-Tribulation timing - The Rapture happens in the exact middle of the Tribulation or 3 1/2 years in.
4) Post-Tribulation timing - Christ Raptures the Saints/Christians at the end of the Tribulation period (7-years)
5) Pre-Wrath timing - Christ Raptures the Saints/Christians immediately BEFORE God's Wrath falls upon mankind and occurs just over midway through the 7 years Tribulation period. This is the only timing position where specific, literal, teaching about the Rapture is cited in/from Scriptures.

Christ, Himself, taught about when this will occur: in

Matthew 24:29-31 (ESV)
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

​

From Christ Teachings Paul relayed to the Thessalonians and those in Corinth Christ instructions and teachings about the coming time when Christians/Saints would be taken up, raptured, caught up in the sky to meet Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:50-53 (NIV)
50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--
52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

and

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (NIV)
13 Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope.
14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
18 Therefore encourage each other with these words.

and again Paul tells the Thessalonians, in reply to some who thought that the Rapture had already occurred and they were "left behind" Paul writes to tell them what must happen first, before the Rapture

2 Thessalonians 2:1-5 (NIV)
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers,
2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come.
3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
5 Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things?
​

Christ taught the disciples to pass on to the Church and teach others in Matthew 24 and we find in 1 Corinthians and 1st & 2nd Thessalonians Paul teaches just that. Paul tells the Thessalonians in 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 that this Rapture/catching-up will not occur until the Antichrist has come upon the scene. This directly refutes the Pre-Tribulation argument which has no direct Scriptural reference or evidence and no Pre-tribulation advocate can cite and point to a specific verse where Christ, Himself, taught about a Pre-tribulation timed rapture/catching-up yet today this is the most prevalent taught and accepted position even though there is NO Literal or Direct Scriptural instructions teaching such. The Pre-Wrath is the only acceptable and Scriptural position of the five.

How about Revelation? Where is the Rapture/catching-up taught in Revelation? It's not taught specifically and directly however it is there and evident it happened. John (writer of Revelation) sees the aftermath and evidence of the Rapture/Catching-up and writes about it in Revelation chapter 7.

Revelation 7:9-14 (NIV)
9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
10 And they cried out in a loud voice: "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."
11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
12 saying: "Amen! Praise and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God for ever and ever. Amen!"
13 Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes--who are they, and where did they come from?"
14 I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
​

Here in Chapter 7 of Revelation you have the Raptured/Caught-up Saints/Saved with Christ Jesus and specifically referred to as being out of the Tribulation which is exactly what Christ instructed and said in
Matthew 24:29-31 (NIV)
29 "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'
30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Verse 29, Immediately after the distress of those days IS the Great Tribulation spoken about and described immediately before verse 29 back into Chapter 24. Most people only believe what they have been told, by a preacher or teacher about the Rapture and many of those make scripture meet their own agenda and give you scriptures that have to be taken figuratively and not literally. The PRE-WRATH Rapture timing position is the only one that uses literal scriptures and each scripture reinforces the one before and continues after. I believe that a Rapture or Catching-away is taught in Scriptures and by Christ and His Disciples to the Churches and everything flows together, logically and chronologically.

Compare 29 "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken to Revelation 6:12-13 (NIV)
12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,
13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.

Note in Matthew 24:30 & 31 after verse 29 the Rapture happens and same in Revelation, After Revelation 6:12-13 the next thing you see is a great unnumbered, uncountable, number of people from all over earth, every nation, in Heaven with Christ. I believe that the Rapture/Catching-Away is taught and is a promise to all Saints/Christians that God will protect them and keep them from His (God's) Wrath that will fall upon the whole world in the end days/times.

Regarding the Pre-Tribulation timing advocates why is this dangerous for the Church to teach and believe verses the Pre-Wrath timing position? Because if Saints/Christians believe that they will be Raptured out before the Tribulation (extremely hard times that befall all the Earth) and before Antichrist comes on the scene then if they find themselves in the middle of the Tribulation, as they will be, and experiencing the things spoken of in Matthew 24 and in Revelation Chapter 6 then many will potentially lose faith. Many will feel they have been left behind by God and become angry and be disappointed and lose their faith. Christians should be looking for Christ to come again but they should also be looking for the SIGNS that will precede that coming so as to be aware that the time is upon them.

Matthew 24:32-33 (NIV)
32 "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.
33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.

​

I see the chickens are coming home to roost. Oops!

.

 

[Anguspure]

I would like someone to please show me where a rapture is mentioned in Revelation since the only thing I see mentioned in Revelation are resurrections.

Where does it say there's a rapture if the 2nd advent, as described in the Olivet discourse, is the 2nd resurrection, where that generation, and those standing there at the time of the Olivet discourse, taste death after witnessing Christ coming into his kingdom, which is the New Yah-ru-Shalem?

If the Olivet discourse advent which is the gathering of the elect and the so-called 2nd return of Christ is the 2nd resurrection, when Christ supposedly returns to earth, how does anyone justify a rapture at the "1st resurrection" if there's no advent, no return of Christ to earth until the 2nd resurrection?

Food for thought

A falling away has definitely begun.

After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it.

 

[keras]

After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it.

Is this meant to prove a general rapture of living Christians to heaven?
If so it totally fails, as it was only John who went there 'in the Spirit' and only for the brief time to receive the Revelation vision.

 

[Billy Jeremiah]

I would like someone to please show me where a rapture is mentioned in Revelation since the only thing I see mentioned in Revelation are resurrections.

Where does it say there's a rapture if the 2nd advent, as described in the Olivet discourse, is the 2nd resurrection, where that generation, and those standing there at the time of the Olivet discourse, taste death after witnessing Christ coming into his kingdom, which is the New Yah-ru-Shalem?

If the Olivet discourse advent which is the gathering of the elect and the so-called 2nd return of Christ is the 2nd resurrection, when Christ supposedly returns to earth, how does anyone justify a rapture at the "1st resurrection" if there's no advent, no return of Christ to earth until the 2nd resurrection?

Food for thought

A falling away has definitely begun.

Just a small note. Originally you quoted a source that was sorta you filter or perhaps a place of reference. I have found a far greater enjoyment in having the Lord and the bible as my first precept authority against all odds.

Eventually He will be all we have when the fire removes what flesh tries to personify.

John writes that the anointing teaches us, and we have that which he gave. We should find peace with our quest or must abandon the source of conflict.

Love the questions; I am sure the Lord is pleased in your search for truth. Maybe you can make a way to get closer to his authority and less on the plans of others.

I am not saying others are not resourceful. Personally I spend so much time with the Lord that I need to interact. Anyhow thanks for posting.

 

[sparow]

I would like someone to please show me where a rapture is mentioned in Revelation since the only thing I see mentioned in Revelation are resurrections.

Where does it say there's a rapture if the 2nd advent, as described in the Olivet discourse, is the 2nd resurrection, where that generation, and those standing there at the time of the Olivet discourse, taste death after witnessing Christ coming into his kingdom, which is the New Yah-ru-Shalem?

If the Olivet discourse advent which is the gathering of the elect and the so-called 2nd return of Christ is the 2nd resurrection, when Christ supposedly returns to earth, how does anyone justify a rapture at the "1st resurrection" if there's no advent, no return of Christ to earth until the 2nd resurrection?

Food for thought

A falling away has definitely begun.

As I understand the Rapture is a doctrine replacing the first resurrection; what the first and second coming means when Christ is always with us is a mystery. The first death that everyone dies is considered sleep, the second death is death and this is the death Christ refers to when telling the Pharisees they will not taste death until the see the kingdom come.

 

[Anguspure]

Is this meant to prove a general rapture of living Christians to heaven?
If so it totally fails, as it was only John who went there 'in the Spirit' and only for the brief time to receive the Revelation vision.

It "proves" very little actually, and I personally find it a long shot compared to the other passages in the Bible that describe an event that might be considered as the "rapture".
However the question was asked:
Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?
This is the passage to which Rapture proponents commonly refer to in the book of Revelation that may allude to the event.

 

[Bring Division]

Lets start with the point I made in the opening post first since you're on my thread. What is the reason why I say there's no rapture, the proof I provided?

Sorry, friend. I was only trying to provide you and your posters with a resource that would, in fact, answer your original question. But, since you seem unwilling to look at it there, I'll come back after work today and see if I can summarize it for you here.

 

[leras]

You will not find it anywhere because it just is not there. What people forget is that when John was called up to see what was going to happen, he saw what was happening in heaven and not on earth.

Jesus actually had two books with Him, the first gets opened to show why peoples names will not be found in the second book, which is opened in Chapter 20. The world as we know it ends with the sixth trumpet in chapter 6 : "And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of the heaven fell unto the earth, as a fig tree casteth her unripe figs when she is shaken of a great wind. And heaven was removed as a scroll when it is rolled up; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the princes, and the rich, and the chief captains, and the mighty, and every bondman and every freeman, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains; and they say to the mountains and to the rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: for the great day of his wrath is come; and who is able to stand?" (Rev 6:12-17)

Everything that happens after chapter six happens in heaven, or as Jesus referred to it on the cross, as Paradise. That is where he will sort the sheep from the goats, and then in chapter 20, the final judgment will be passed over the goats and they will be sent to forever pay for their sin.

There are a number of chapters 17 and 18 specifically, that shows what will happen to those people who formed part of the harlot, so they were sitting in church but following their own doctrine, and not the true gospel of Jesus as the perfect Lamb that did everything He had to when He was on earth. He does not have to come back to earth as we then make Him out to be a liar, as He said on the cross "It is finished". So he completed everything He had to do on earth.

Very quick take on my way of believing.

For those who wants to read my full take, download the book at http://www.shamaministries.org.za/boeke/The Revelation of John Revealed.pdf

 

[Major1]

Oh ,three phases .....one FIRST resurrection in THREE phases ....that explain all.
How many coming of Jesus do you need to accomplish that ?

There is no massive resurrection of the dead in Christ that will happen before the Tribulation.

I think that you mix the resurrection of Jesus who is the -first fruits- /versus / the First Resurrection mentioned in Revelation 20:4-6
1). The Resurrection of Christ who is the First fruits.
(1 Cor. 15:23-Rev. 1:5)

All I or anyone else can do is quote the Scriptures for you.

up to you to do the study, reading the Word and praying that the Holy Spirit will teach you and guide you into all truth.

If you reject what I am saying to you, or make light of it, that is on you and not me my dear friend.

With all due respect to you, what I have said is actually very basic Bible teaching. IT seems to me that you have either not tried to learn this stuff or have actively rejected the teaching of the Scripture.

I will again endeavor to show you Bible 101.

At the consummation of the First Resurrection there are three companies of believers who will have been raised at different times. I am saying 3 "stages" so as to make it more understandable for you.

(1) When our Lord was crucified on the Cross, we read in Matthew 27:51-52.........
“And, behold the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose”.

Obviously that is after the crucifixion and if "and many bodies of the saints which slept arose" does not mean a resurrection will you then please enlighten all of us on the meaning of that verse.

(2) There is the second stage of the First Resurrection which is found in 1 Thessalonians 4:16........
“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed".

Again, if this is not another resurrection, then please tell us that it is.

(3) The third and final stage of the First Resurrection occurs about seven years after the resurrection of saints at Christ’s coming at the rapture. “Those resurrected near the close of the seven years’ period of the tribulation are the multitude of believers who were led to the truth through the witness of the 144,000.” Because they would not receive the mark of the beast in their hands and foreheads, they were martyred. These are brought forth from the dead at the end of the Tribulation just before Christ comes to earth to reign for one thousand years.

 

[Major1]

You will not find it anywhere because it just is not there. What people forget is that when John was called up to see what was going to happen, he saw what was happening in heaven and not on earth.

Jesus actually had two books with Him, the first gets opened to show why peoples names will not be found in the second book, which is opened in Chapter 20. The world as we know it ends with the sixth trumpet in chapter 6 : "And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of the heaven fell unto the earth, as a fig tree casteth her unripe figs when she is shaken of a great wind. And heaven was removed as a scroll when it is rolled up; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the princes, and the rich, and the chief captains, and the mighty, and every bondman and every freeman, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains; and they say to the mountains and to the rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: for the great day of his wrath is come; and who is able to stand?" (Rev 6:12-17)

Everything that happens after chapter six happens in heaven, or as Jesus referred to it on the cross, as Paradise. That is where he will sort the sheep from the goats, and then in chapter 20, the final judgment will be passed over the goats and they will be sent to forever pay for their sin.

There are a number of chapters 17 and 18 specifically, that shows what will happen to those people who formed part of the harlot, so they were sitting in church but following their own doctrine, and not the true gospel of Jesus as the perfect Lamb that did everything He had to when He was on earth. He does not have to come back to earth as we then make Him out to be a liar, as He said on the cross "It is finished". So he completed everything He had to do on earth.

Very quick take on my way of believing.

For those who wants to read my full take, download the book at http://www.shamaministries.org.za/boeke/The Revelation of John Revealed.pdf

"Everything that happens after chapter 6 happens in heaven or paradise".

Maybe I am not understanding your premise.

How do then explain Revelation 14:16.......
"And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle ON THE EARTH and the EARTH was reaped".

Now, when I read through your work I found in Revelation 7 that you quoted the Book of Enoch as Scripture to be used to validate your work.

At that point I had to consider whether or not your work stands the test of 2 Timothy 3:16-17....
"ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God and if profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works".

Having read the Book of Enoch, I have found it to be one of the worst productions ever written and that fact causes me to question your book and your teaching.

Please understand that this is NOT a personal attack but is a personal opnion.

 

[Straightshot]

My comments

The "first" type of resurrection is the resurrection to immortality

There more than one of these resurrections scheduled in scripture from the Lord's resurrection going forward

There is only one of "second" type of resurrection to the second death scheduled

Revelation 14:20-17 is not a resurrection, but a description of the battle of Armageddon

The gatherings just after the days of the tribulation of Matthew 24:29-31 [of Israel] and Matthew 25:31-46 [of the Gentiles of the nations] and not resurrections of anyone

These mortal survivors of the tribulation will be gathered and separated

Those found believing will enter and populate the Lord's millennial kingdom upon the earth

Those found in unbelief will be rejected

All of Israel found believing will enter [1/3] .... the others of Israel will be killed in unbelief [2/3] [Zechariah 13:8-9; Romans 11:26-36]

All of the Gentiles will not .... the particular characteristic of those who enter the kingdom will be those believers who favored Israel [the Lord's brethren] during the tribulation .... these believers will understand Israel's position

The other implicit message here is that those Gentiles who deny the returned remnant of His nation of Israel today behave the same just as those who will deny Israel during the tribulation