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Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

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GirdYourLoins

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The presumptuousness of some on here is quite astounding. Its quite clear from the arguements on here that there are valid views from different views on this subject.

I would even go as far as to say that maybe we are not meant to know. The bible clearly says that when Jesus returns people will be going about their normal lives and no one will know when that day will be. If we knew for sure the chronology of the end times we would have an idea of when he will return. So much of end time prophecy has been fulfilled and now with ISIS we are seeing the faithful being beheaded with the sword for their faith, something that has not been happening (at least on any large scale) for centuries.

Over the last century or so we have had a huge increase in earthquakes and natural disasters, seeing the dead in the streets (TV), hearing of wars and rumours of wars, etc, etc. It is more important to focus on God and having a right relationship with Him and servicing Him that getting bogged down in matters of doctrine like the Pharisees and Sadducees. (I'm not accusing anyone on here of being like them, but you get the point).
 
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Douggg

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I would even go as far as to say that maybe we are not meant to know. The bible clearly says that when Jesus returns people will be going about their normal lives and no one will know when that day will be. If we knew for sure the chronology of the end times we would have an idea of when he will return.
We are supposed to know. We do have an idea of when Jesus is going to return (the second coming). He gave it with learn a parable of the fig tree. Why do you think Jesus gave that parable?

The Second Coming sometime between now and 2037 preceded by the 70th week aforehand. Which means 2024 at the earliest and 2037 at the latest. The rapture can take place anytime between now and when it actually does.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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I have read the Bible right through many times and I believe what it says. There is nothing uncomfortable or impossible there at all. The metaphors and allegories are mostly explained or easily understood.
The problem arises when people add their own twist to what is actually written.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 is a classic example. Rapture believers say this scripture is proof of the Church being taken to heaven. That heaven is not mentioned and Jesus has come down to the earth, has no effect on their belief.
But as I have repeatedly posted and you can't see it, is what God really does plan for His people:
Isaiah 49:8 These are the Words of the Lord: In the time of My favour, I answered you, on the Day of deliverance I came to your aid.
I have formed you and destined you to be a light for the peoples, restoring the holy Land and living in all of your inheritance.

Romans 9:23-26 We [Christians] receive God's mercy, chosen as we are from among Jews and gentiles.....in the very place where they, [the Jews of Jesus' time] were told: You are no children of Mine, there they, [Christians, receivers of God's mercy] will be called the children of the Living God.

And again, you are not reading and believing what 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 actually says.

16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (1 Thessalonians 4:16).
Where are the dead in Christ rising to? Let's keep reading to find out.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:17).
Caught...up...together...with...them (i.e. the dead in Christ) in the clouds.
Where are they going?
The verse says, "to meet the LORD in the air."
For what purpose?
So that we can be with the LORD forever more because the verse says, "so shall we ever be with the LORD."

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
(1 Thessalonians 4:18).​

Oh, and we are supposed to be comforted by hearing these words. Why? Because we are saved from the Wrath to come by being....

CAUGHT UP WITH THE DEAD IN CHRIST IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR (Whereby we will forever be with the LORD).

For the Scriptures say,

"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." (John 14:3).​

Jesus prepares a place for us. He says He will ..... COME AGAIN and RECEIVE us unto Himself. Why? The verse continues to say... and quotes Jesus as saying, "That where I am, there ye may be also."

So we get to be where Jesus is at.
Pretty simple.
We will be CAUGHT UP INTO THE CLOUDS.
Nothing you say is going to change what the Bible says here.


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Now, one reason I can think of why somebody does not want to be CAUGHT UP into the air to meet Jesus (So as to be with Him forever more) is because they may feel that they have to atone for their own sins in some way by going thru the Tribulation (when they don't have to). Perhaps they feel they need to be punished and they are not forgiven. Maybe they feel their sins are sooo bad that they cannot be forgiven by Jesus the normal way (Which is by repenting of their sins to Him).

Also, there is TRUE genuine persecution that the LORD calls for His believers that is under His guidance (That happens even during our present day). But when somebody is looking to be persecuted outside of God's will (By saying there is no event where the saints are... CAUGHT UP (as 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 says), it is possible that there is something that they may have not worked out emotionally within themselves involving either their old life, or their sin (that they may even still be struggling with). If this is the case, then they need to seek forgiveness with the LORD and then seek to look for Him at any moment. They need to stop feeling that they need to atone for their sin on their own (On their own terms).

A second reason why people may deny the saints being... CAUGHT UP (as 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 says) whereby they are seeking to be persecuted outside of God's will is that they simply want to worship God (or be saved) their own way. Cain had brought forth the harvest from the ground instead of bringing forth an animal sacrifice. Cain was angry that God accepted his brother Abel's sacrifice. Why? Because Cain wanted to be accepted by GOD doing things His own way instead of the LORD's way. Some folks just want to march to the beat of their own drum (Instead of marching to the song of the LORD).


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GirdYourLoins

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We are supposed to know. We do have an idea of when Jesus is going to return (the second coming). He gave it with learn a parable of the fig tree. Why do you think Jesus gave that parable?

The Second Coming sometime between now and 2037 preceded by the 70th week aforehand. Which means 2024 at the earliest and 2037 at the latest. The rapture can take place anytime between now and when it actually does.

You mean as in Luke 13:6-9? I dont see how you get the rapture put of that. I consider that scripture to be about the fruit of the spirit, not the rapture. I do believe in the rapture, but think you are adding to what scripture says on that one. If you have other scriptures to back up your perspective fine, but if you are saying that the above scripture proves when Jesus comes back I dont agree with you.
 
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We are supposed to know. We do have an idea of when Jesus is going to return (the second coming). He gave it with learn a parable of the fig tree. Why do you think Jesus gave that parable?

The Second Coming sometime between now and 2037 preceded by the 70th week aforehand. Which means 2024 at the earliest and 2037 at the latest. The rapture can take place anytime between now and when it actually does.

Yeah, the concept of "date setting" is wrong. Jesus says we will not know the day or the hour. We are to look for Him at any moment. We are to be ready at any moment by making sure we are truly living righteously or holy.


...
 
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Douggg

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Now, one reason I can think of why somebody does not want to be CAUGHT UP into the air to meet Jesus (So as to be with Him forever more) is because they may feel that they have to atone for their own sins in some way by going thru the Tribulation (when they don't have to). Perhaps they feel they need to be punished and they are not forgiven. Maybe they feel their sins are sooo bad that they cannot be forgiven by Jesus the normal way (Which is by repenting of their sins to Him).

Jason, I can think of another reason. Jehovah's witnesses believe that only 144,000 (Jehovah's witnesses) go to heaven - and that those 144,000 have already been identified. Everyone else remains here on what will be paradise earth.
 
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Douggg

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Yeah, the concept of "date setting" is wrong. Jesus says we will not know the day or the hour. We are to look for Him at any moment. We are to be ready at any moment by making sure we are truly living righteously or holy.
...
I don't think anyone knows the day nor hour. Or year for that matter. The parable of the fig tree is seasonally based.
 
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Douggg

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You mean as in Luke 13:6-9? I dont see how you get the rapture put of that. I consider that scripture to be about the fruit of the spirit, not the rapture. I do believe in the rapture, but think you are adding to what scripture says on that one. If you have other scriptures to back up your perspective fine, but if you are saying that the above scripture proves when Jesus comes back I dont agree with you.
For the rapture, Luke 21:34-36, take a look at that one.

The parable of the fig tree is in Matthew 24:32-35. You have to figure out what is the fig tree and the length of a generation.

Here is what the fig tree is. It is Jerusalem.

When Jesus and the disciples were about to enter Jerusalem, Jesus cursed a fig tree beside the road for not having fruit - Jerusalem, that generation, he said did not produce any fruit, so the kingdom of God was taken from them. Matthew 21:19 and 21:43. Just two verses for you to read.

Jerusalem became back in the hands of the Jews in 1967. So that is the base year plus 70 years for a generation.
Gives 2037. That all the prophecies in Matthew 24 will be fulfilled, no later than.

Look up, your redemption draws near.
 
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GBRK

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I would like someone to please show me where a rapture is mentioned in Revelation since the only thing I see mentioned in Revelation are resurrections.

Where does it say there's a rapture if the 2nd advent, as described in the Olivet discourse, is the 2nd resurrection, where that generation, and those standing there at the time of the Olivet discourse, taste death after witnessing Christ coming into his kingdom, which is the New Yah-ru-Shalem?

If the Olivet discourse advent which is the gathering of the elect and the so-called 2nd return of Christ is the 2nd resurrection, when Christ supposedly returns to earth, how does anyone justify a rapture at the "1st resurrection" if there's no advent, no return of Christ to earth until the 2nd resurrection?

Food for thought

A falling away has definitely begun.

The word Rapture is not found in the Scriptures, as a word, but the thought or teaching of the event surely is taught. First of all there are at least five Rapture timing positions that are prevalent today and they are:
1) No Rapture - no rescuing of God's Saints/Saved, no "catching up" of God's protected people, Saints/Christians

2) Pre-Tribulation timing - Saints, Christians, are taken
up, raptured, caught up into the clouds BEFORE the Seven Year Tribulation period begans. These pre-trib advocates believe that the Rapture is mentioned and symbolized in Revelation 4:1. They have no direct, literal, reference, in Revelation of the Rapture.
3) Mid-Tribulation timing - The Rapture happens in the exact middle of the Tribulation or 3 1/2 years in.
4) Post-Tribulation timing - Christ Raptures the Saints/Christians at the end of the Tribulation period (7-years)
5) Pre-Wrath timing - Christ Raptures the Saints/Christians immediately BEFORE God's Wrath falls upon mankind and occurs just over midway through the 7 years Tribulation period. This is the only timing position where specific, literal, teaching about the Rapture is cited in/from Scriptures.

Christ, Himself, taught about when this will occur: in
Matthew 24:29-31 (ESV)
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

From Christ Teachings Paul relayed to the Thessalonians and those in Corinth Christ instructions and teachings about the coming time when Christians/Saints would be taken up, raptured, caught up in the sky to meet Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:50-53 (NIV)
50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--
52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

and

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (NIV)
13 Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope.
14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

18 Therefore encourage each other with these words.

and again Paul tells the Thessalonians, in reply to some who thought that the Rapture had already occurred and they were "left behind" Paul writes to tell them what must happen first, before the Rapture

2 Thessalonians 2:1-5 (NIV)
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers,
2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come.
3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
5 Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things?
Christ taught the disciples to pass on to the Church and teach others in Matthew 24 and we find in 1 Corinthians and 1st & 2nd Thessalonians Paul teaches just that. Paul tells the Thessalonians in 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 that this Rapture/catching-up will not occur until the Antichrist has come upon the scene. This directly refutes the Pre-Tribulation argument which has no direct Scriptural reference or evidence and no Pre-tribulation advocate can cite and point to a specific verse where Christ, Himself, taught about a Pre-tribulation timed rapture/catching-up yet today this is the most prevalent taught and accepted position even though there is NO Literal or Direct Scriptural instructions teaching such. The Pre-Wrath is the only acceptable and Scriptural position of the five.

How about Revelation? Where is the Rapture/catching-up taught in Revelation? It's not taught specifically and directly however it is there and evident it happened. John (writer of Revelation) sees the aftermath and evidence of the Rapture/Catching-up and writes about it in Revelation chapter 7.

Revelation 7:9-14 (NIV)
9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
10 And they cried out in a loud voice: "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."
11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
12 saying: "Amen! Praise and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God for ever and ever. Amen!"
13 Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes--who are they, and where did they come from?"
14 I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Here in Chapter 7 of Revelation you have the Raptured/Caught-up Saints/Saved with Christ Jesus and specifically referred to as being out of the Tribulation which is exactly what Christ instructed and said in
Matthew 24:29-31 (NIV)
29 "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'
30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Verse 29, Immediately after the distress of those days IS the Great Tribulation spoken about and described immediately before verse 29 back into Chapter 24. Most people only believe what they have been told, by a preacher or teacher about the Rapture and many of those make scripture meet their own agenda and give you scriptures that have to be taken figuratively and not literally. The PRE-WRATH Rapture timing position is the only one that uses literal scriptures and each scripture reinforces the one before and continues after. I believe that a Rapture or Catching-away is taught in Scriptures and by Christ and His Disciples to the Churches and everything flows together, logically and chronologically.

Compare 29 "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken to Revelation 6:12-13 (NIV)
12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,
13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.

Note in Matthew 24:30 & 31 after verse 29 the Rapture happens and same in Revelation, After Revelation 6:12-13 the next thing you see is a great unnumbered, uncountable, number of people from all over earth, every nation, in Heaven with Christ. I believe that the Rapture/Catching-Away is taught and is a promise to all Saints/Christians that God will protect them and keep them from His (God's) Wrath that will fall upon the whole world in the end days/times.

Regarding the Pre-Tribulation timing advocates why is this dangerous for the Church to teach and believe verses the Pre-Wrath timing position? Because if Saints/Christians believe that they will be Raptured out before the Tribulation (extremely hard times that befall all the Earth) and before Antichrist comes on the scene then if they find themselves in the middle of the Tribulation, as they will be, and experiencing the things spoken of in Matthew 24 and in Revelation Chapter 6 then many will potentially lose faith. Many will feel they have been left behind by God and become angry and be disappointed and lose their faith. Christians should be looking for Christ to come again but they should also be looking for the SIGNS that will precede that coming so as to be aware that the time is upon them.

Matthew 24:32-33 (NIV)
32 "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.
33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.






 
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Major1

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You have probably missed the part saying that those who will be resurrected in the First Resurrection are those who will be beheaded by the Beast during the 42 months reign of the Beast....
Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the SOULS of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The Christians -still- alive and remain** UNTO the Coming of Jesus will be changed into immortality along with those who have been beheaded and will also reign on the Earth with Jesus during the millennium.[**Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection]

All the others good or bad will be resurrected at the Great White Throne Judgment Revelation 20:7-15


That is not exactly what you expected.


Actually I expect that those who reject the Rapture will do everything they can to make Scriptures say what they want them to say.

In Rev. 20:4 that you used tells us that rule of Christ on the Earth. Those who John sees come to life are the Tribulation martyrs who refused to worship the beast and were killed.
They will rule the earth with Christ for 1000 years.

Rev. 20:5...........
"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the 1000 years were finished This is the 1st Resurrection".

The first part of verse 5 is a "Parenthesis", and comes chronologically after verse 11. The 1st Resurrection is he resurrection included in verse 4 and it has 3 phases.

I bet you did not see that coming.

1). The Resurrection of Christ who is the First fruits.
(1 Cor. 15:23-Rev. 1:5)
2). The Resurrection of the dead in Christ.
(1 Cor. 15:23-1 Thess:416)
3). The Resurrection of the Old Test. and Tribulation saints.
(Rev. 20:4-Is. 26:19-Daniel 12:2)
 
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Major1

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You mean as in Luke 13:6-9? I dont see how you get the rapture put of that. I consider that scripture to be about the fruit of the spirit, not the rapture. I do believe in the rapture, but think you are adding to what scripture says on that one. If you have other scriptures to back up your perspective fine, but if you are saying that the above scripture proves when Jesus comes back I dont agree with you.

Agreed.
It is a short parable of the lords forbearance and His eventual severity on those who are continually fruitless.
 
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SpiritRehab

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I would like someone to please show me where a rapture is mentioned in Revelation since the only thing I see mentioned in Revelation are resurrections.

Revelation 12:5 - Understand that this is a prophecy of the future, not a recap of History.
 
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Riberra

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Rev. 20:5...........
"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the 1000 years were finished This is the 1st Resurrection".

The first part of verse 5 is a "Parenthesis", and comes chronologically after verse 11. The 1st Resurrection is he resurrection included in verse 4 and it has 3 phases.

I bet you did not see that coming.

1). The Resurrection of Christ who is the First fruits.
(1 Cor. 15:23-Rev. 1:5)
2). The Resurrection of the dead in Christ.
(1 Cor. 15:23-1 Thess:416)
3). The Resurrection of the Old Test. and Tribulation saints.
(Rev. 20:4-Is. 26:19-Daniel 12:2)
Oh ,three phases .....one FIRST resurrection in THREE phases ....that explain all.
How many coming of Jesus do you need to accomplish that ?

There is no massive resurrection of the dead in Christ that will happen before the Tribulation.

I think that you mix the resurrection of Jesus who is the -first fruits- /versus / the First Resurrection mentioned in Revelation 20:4-6
1). The Resurrection of Christ who is the First fruits.
(1 Cor. 15:23-Rev. 1:5)
 
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Dig4truth

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The word Rapture is not found in the Scriptures, as a word, but the thought or teaching of the event surely is taught. First of all there are at least five Rapture timing positions that are prevalent today and they are:
1) No Rapture - no rescuing of God's Saints/Saved, no "catching up" of God's protected people, Saints/Christians

2) Pre-Tribulation timing - Saints, Christians, are taken
up, raptured, caught up into the clouds BEFORE the Seven Year Tribulation period begans. These pre-trib advocates believe that the Rapture is mentioned and symbolized in Revelation 4:1. They have no direct, literal, reference, in Revelation of the Rapture.
3) Mid-Tribulation timing - The Rapture happens in the exact middle of the Tribulation or 3 1/2 years in.
4) Post-Tribulation timing - Christ Raptures the Saints/Christians at the end of the Tribulation period (7-years)
5) Pre-Wrath timing - Christ Raptures the Saints/Christians immediately BEFORE God's Wrath falls upon mankind and occurs just over midway through the 7 years Tribulation period. This is the only timing position where specific, literal, teaching about the Rapture is cited in/from Scriptures.

Christ, Himself, taught about when this will occur: in
Matthew 24:29-31 (ESV)
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

From Christ Teachings Paul relayed to the Thessalonians and those in Corinth Christ instructions and teachings about the coming time when Christians/Saints would be taken up, raptured, caught up in the sky to meet Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:50-53 (NIV)
50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--
52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

and

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (NIV)
13 Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope.
14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

18 Therefore encourage each other with these words.

and again Paul tells the Thessalonians, in reply to some who thought that the Rapture had already occurred and they were "left behind" Paul writes to tell them what must happen first, before the Rapture

2 Thessalonians 2:1-5 (NIV)
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers,
2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come.
3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
5 Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things?
Christ taught the disciples to pass on to the Church and teach others in Matthew 24 and we find in 1 Corinthians and 1st & 2nd Thessalonians Paul teaches just that. Paul tells the Thessalonians in 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 that this Rapture/catching-up will not occur until the Antichrist has come upon the scene. This directly refutes the Pre-Tribulation argument which has no direct Scriptural reference or evidence and no Pre-tribulation advocate can cite and point to a specific verse where Christ, Himself, taught about a Pre-tribulation timed rapture/catching-up yet today this is the most prevalent taught and accepted position even though there is NO Literal or Direct Scriptural instructions teaching such. The Pre-Wrath is the only acceptable and Scriptural position of the five.

How about Revelation? Where is the Rapture/catching-up taught in Revelation? It's not taught specifically and directly however it is there and evident it happened. John (writer of Revelation) sees the aftermath and evidence of the Rapture/Catching-up and writes about it in Revelation chapter 7.

Revelation 7:9-14 (NIV)
9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
10 And they cried out in a loud voice: "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."
11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
12 saying: "Amen! Praise and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God for ever and ever. Amen!"
13 Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes--who are they, and where did they come from?"
14 I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Here in Chapter 7 of Revelation you have the Raptured/Caught-up Saints/Saved with Christ Jesus and specifically referred to as being out of the Tribulation which is exactly what Christ instructed and said in
Matthew 24:29-31 (NIV)
29 "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'
30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Verse 29, Immediately after the distress of those days IS the Great Tribulation spoken about and described immediately before verse 29 back into Chapter 24. Most people only believe what they have been told, by a preacher or teacher about the Rapture and many of those make scripture meet their own agenda and give you scriptures that have to be taken figuratively and not literally. The PRE-WRATH Rapture timing position is the only one that uses literal scriptures and each scripture reinforces the one before and continues after. I believe that a Rapture or Catching-away is taught in Scriptures and by Christ and His Disciples to the Churches and everything flows together, logically and chronologically.

Compare 29 "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken to Revelation 6:12-13 (NIV)
12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,
13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.

Note in Matthew 24:30 & 31 after verse 29 the Rapture happens and same in Revelation, After Revelation 6:12-13 the next thing you see is a great unnumbered, uncountable, number of people from all over earth, every nation, in Heaven with Christ. I believe that the Rapture/Catching-Away is taught and is a promise to all Saints/Christians that God will protect them and keep them from His (God's) Wrath that will fall upon the whole world in the end days/times.

Regarding the Pre-Tribulation timing advocates why is this dangerous for the Church to teach and believe verses the Pre-Wrath timing position? Because if Saints/Christians believe that they will be Raptured out before the Tribulation (extremely hard times that befall all the Earth) and before Antichrist comes on the scene then if they find themselves in the middle of the Tribulation, as they will be, and experiencing the things spoken of in Matthew 24 and in Revelation Chapter 6 then many will potentially lose faith. Many will feel they have been left behind by God and become angry and be disappointed and lose their faith. Christians should be looking for Christ to come again but they should also be looking for the SIGNS that will precede that coming so as to be aware that the time is upon them.

Matthew 24:32-33 (NIV)
32 "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.
33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.




Thank goodness, I thought I was going to have to write all of this info down - again.

Please listen to this, it is accurate!

Key Points:

*The GT and God's wrath (DoL) are not the same.
*The DoL (Day of the Lord's wrath) has signs that precede it.
*Those signs are seen at the 6th seal.
*The great multitude are those who are "raptured" before God's wrath begins.
 
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