Where gravity and forces come from..!

[dad]

also i'm new here so bear with me and i'm a learning christian but have researched a lot!

OK. Being a believer does not take a lot of research. The disciples of Jesus were not scholars.

 

[snackster29]

You talk as if we could tamper with this so called spiritual universe. That would be incredibly stupid to devote any amount of money to probe this divine energy. Once you guys come at and tell us how to harness its power will give it a shot.
As i thought you would realize string theory doesnt say anything about god and angels which is pretty obvious since that would be nonsensical.
Has there ever been a case were a scientist has recently used ideas from the bible to formulate their theories?
Your point on the dissatisfaction of extra dimension would hold more validity if you didnt believe in some intelligent being impossible to see.
Stick to what we know right?

 

[dad]

You talk as if we could tamper with this so called spiritual universe. That would be incredibly stupid to devote any amount of money to probe this divine energy.

I never suggested physical only minded man could tamper with squat that is spiritual. Get a grip.

Once you guys come at and tell us how to harness its power will give it a shot.

Jesus told us. We need to be born of the spirit.

As i thought you would realize string theory doesnt say anything about god and angels which is pretty obvious since that would be nonsensical.

Why would anyone stringing us along about other invisible same state dimensions say anything about God? That would be the last thing they would say.

Has there ever been a case were a scientist has recently used ideas from the bible to formulate their theories?

If there w were, it would not be merely so called science.

Your point on the dissatisfaction of extra dimension would hold more validity if you didnt believe in some intelligent being impossible to see.

I have no dissatisfaction with any extra dimension. Why make stuff up? I merely note that the silly string theory invokes invisible dimensions.

Stick to what we know right?

Exactly. Like the bible and the spiritual. No need to make stuff up. I think there has been enough experience with miracles, and a risen Christ, and changed lives, and fulfilled prophesy, etc...that it is known.

Remember, we are not talking about what fits in a fishbowl here, or just what is able to be known by little physical only science.

 

[snackster29]

I never suggested physical only minded man could tamper with squat that is spiritual. Get a grip.

Jesus told us. We need to be born of the spirit.

Why would anyone stringing us along about other invisible same state dimensions say anything about God? That would be the last thing they would say.

If there w were, it would not be merely so called science.

I have no dissatisfaction with any extra dimension. Why make stuff up? I merely note that the silly string theory invokes invisible dimensions.

Exactly. Like the bible and the spiritual. No need to make stuff up. I think there has been enough experience with miracles, and a risen Christ, and changed lives, and fulfilled prophesy, etc...that it is known.

Remember, we are not talking about what fits in a fishbowl here, or just what is able to be known by little physical only science.

What has the bible ever done for us in modern times then? tell me? did the bible make the computer,cars,airplanes,etc? NO its done nothing other than provide entertainment and brain wash people.
I can prove the universe is physical you cant prove its spiritual. Come on dad one thing, show how ignorant i am, tell me how i can observe this force come on. Give one example that i can go out at and see definitely this is the work of god and not physics.
Once again how does extra dimensions make string theory invalid? How exactly did you surmise that gravitons don't exist? Being unable to see gravitons shouldn't lead to the conclusion they aren't their.

 

[Delphiki]

What has the bible ever done for us in modern times then? tell me? did the bible make the computer,cars,airplanes,etc? NO its done nothing other than provide entertainment and brain wash people.
I can prove the universe is physical you cant prove its spiritual. Come on dad one thing, show how ignorant i am, tell me how i can observe this force come on. Give one example that i can go out at and see definitely this is the work of god and not physics.
Once again how does extra dimensions make string theory invalid? How exactly did you surmise that gravitons don't exist? Being unable to see gravitons shouldn't lead to the conclusion they aren't their.

What? Don't you know? You have to believe in it first, then you'll see the evidence so you can believe in it to see the evidence to believe in it!

 

[snackster29]

What? Don't you know? You have to believe in it first, then you'll see the evidence so you can believe in it to see the evidence to believe in it!

Thats exactly the point. if the bible was universally true you dont have to be a believer to see the truth. What you mentioned is the reason im not sure of god. Of course nothing changes when you start believing. The truth should be apparent weather you accept jesus or not and if the only way it makes sense is after you want god to exist it must be wrong

 

[dad]

What has the bible ever done for us in modern times then? tell me?

It told man of the way to God, and life evermore. It alone illuminated the way of salvation. It changed my life, and by it, I will live forever and ever. Amen.

did the bible make the computer,cars,airplanes,etc? NO its done nothing other than provide entertainment and brain wash people.

The bible changed loves and changed men were largely responsible for many of the discoveries man has found. It also speaks of a time when most of that junk won't work anyhow, but the things in His word will work. For example, it tells of Israel fleeing into the wilderness from the forces of Satan. If modern present state laws were still in effect, they would easily be snuffed out in hours. I suppose that a change will have happened, that will render planes, and motors, and most things like that useless!?

I can prove the universe is physical you cant prove its spiritual.

Do it then! Time is a wastin.

Come on dad one thing, show how ignorant i am,

I'll give you a chance to show you are serious first, by proving the universe is physical, and always will be. Something tells me I won't have to do it, because you will have done it to yourself.

tell me how i can observe this force come on.

Well, go to the far past or future where the new state exists. Till then, stand down.

Give one example that i can go out at and see definitely this is the work of god and not physics.

Give one example that isn't?

Once again how does extra dimensions make string theory invalid?

They are only imagined and based on this present state.

How exactly did you surmise that gravitons don't exist?

I didn't. Why, have you proof for them? I accept the known. Really. Let's see what you got.

Being unable to see gravitons shouldn't lead to the conclusion they aren't their.

Surely the fact they are not seen doesn't prove they are either. So??

 

[JustMeSee]

Why do you pretend man has no known limits?? Absurd. Same with science.



No, that is what the devil tells man. 'Did God say such and such?...He did not reaaallllly mean it...you are little gods too, remember? Eve ate the fruit and it made her a little god...'



It actually attributes precisely NOTHING to God. I wasn't born yesterday.

dad, I think I have reached the limit of understanding your position. There was a different state past where things were radically different. We are in a current state where certain science is ineffective in measuring time, because of the different state past. At some point, there will be a third state, at which time Jesus will return.

I accept that this is what you believe. It is pointless for me to argue with you.

 

[lucaspa]

Science would not allow Jesus to walk on water, heal the sick or raise the dead, would it?

Sure it does. You are making the second worst mistake in science: using theory to refute data.

A problem occurs when someone tries to wield science like and axe and say this or that could not have happened as it was recorded in the Bible.

Depends on what you are talking about. If the event leaves evidence we can study today, then yes, science can tell us that the event could not have happened. A global flood, for instance. Special Creation, for another. See the first quote in my signature.

For events that did not leave evidence we can study today, then the person trying to use science to say that Jesus never walked on water, healed the sick, made loaves and fishes, or rose from the dead is misusing science! IOW, the problem is not science, but ignorance about science.

I trust [true] science, and do not believe in the theory of evolution.

Then you deny God. Good luck with that when you meet Him.

Trying to use the Bible as a science book is like trying to use Bill Gate's diary as a computer manual.

But you do it all the time, don't you, AV? Why don't you take your own advice and follow the advice of Christians (first quote in my signature).

The big deal is that science can become someone's religion -- it's called scientism.

So we throw out science because some people can abuse it? Then let's throw out Christianity because some people use it as justification to kill.

 

[lucaspa]

It actually attributes precisely NOTHING to God. I wasn't born yesterday.

Then you have even less excuse for bearing false witness.

Science is agnostic.

To say it for all my colleagues and for the umpteenth millionth time (from college bull sessions to learned treatises): science simply cannot (by its legitimate methods) adjudicate the issue of God's possible superintendence of nature. We neither affirm nor deny it; we simply can't comment on it as scientists." SJ Gould "Impeaching a Self-Appointed Judge" Scientific American 267(1), July 1992p. 80

Did you read that carefully? "neither affirm nor deny it". That is very different from "attributes precisely NOTHING to God." It's very neutral. You are trying to make science sound antagonistic.

The problem is not with science, but your theology. You actually have the beliefs of atheism: God must work miraculously or God does not work at all. That is not Christianity. By Christianity, everything science discovers is how God works.

I am puzzled, dad, why you are trying so hard to drive people away from God. You try to attribute science to Satan, but it's clear that it is your attitude that is from Satan. You are pitting God vs God. God can only lose in that contest. And you appear to want very badly for God to lose. Only Satan can win from that.

 

[AV1611VET]

A problem occurs when someone tries to wield science like and axe and say this or that could not have happened as it was recorded in the Bible.

Depends on what you are talking about.

No, it doesn't depend on what I'm talking about.

If it is recorded in the Bible as happening, it happened -- whether I believe it or not.

Then let's throw out Christianity because some people use it as justification to kill.

Let's don't -- or more people will kill in the name of Christianity.

 

[snackster29]

Try walking through a wall or flying back to the past. Ive yet to seen something do that? it will never happen because we live in a physical universe. Saying we cant see spiritual objects because their invisible is a childish lie/ i might as well say we were created by a sesame street character controlling the matrix. We cant see these objects probably cuz they arent there

Well i think the pressure is on you too prove string theory wrong because its accepted.
Come up with some reasonable evidence to show it wrong and we'll start listening

 

[dad]

Then you have even less excuse for bearing false witness.

Science is agnostic.

I see, so what do agnostics credit God with then?

To say it for all my colleagues and for the umpteenth millionth time (from college bull sessions to learned treatises): science simply cannot (by its legitimate methods) adjudicate the issue of God's possible superintendence of nature. We neither affirm nor deny it; we simply can't comment on it as scientists." SJ Gould "Impeaching a Self-Appointed Judge" Scientific American 267(1), July 1992p. 80

The reason they can neither confirm nor deny is because they keep Him and all spiritual out of their circle of knowledge. A closed minded thing indeed. Did you get that?

Did you read that carefully? "neither affirm nor deny it". That is very different from "attributes precisely NOTHING to God." It's very neutral. You are trying to make science sound antagonistic.

False. Either it attributes stuff to God or not. I don't care about justifications. It doesn't. Face it.

The problem is not with science, but your theology. You actually have the beliefs of atheism: God must work miraculously or God does not work at all. That is not Christianity. By Christianity, everything science discovers is how God works.

So the resurrection birth, and life of Christ was not miraculous? Strange.

I am puzzled, dad, why you are trying so hard to drive people away from God. You try to attribute science to Satan, but it's clear that it is your attitude that is from Satan.

Well well well. Those that don't bow the knee to science are of Satan now. Interesting. Can you hear yourself. Snap out of it man, if it's not too late.

You are pitting God vs God. God can only lose in that contest. And you appear to want very badly for God to lose. Only Satan can win from that.

No idea what you are blathering about.

 

[dad]

What? Don't you know? You have to believe in it first, then you'll see the evidence so you can believe in it to see the evidence to believe in it!

You think science demands all that? Bizarre.

 

[snackster29]

You think science demands all that? Bizarre.

lol what? are you off the medicine. i didnt even type that someone else did and i quoted them

 

[dad]

dad, I think I have reached the limit of understanding your position. There was a different state past where things were radically different.

That seems to be the conclusion that the evidence demands.

We are in a current state where certain science is ineffective in measuring time, because of the different state past.

??? Science can tell time fine. Long as it stays in man's domain. And in this state.

At some point, there will be a third state, at which time Jesus will return.

No. We don't know that. The changes that ensue near the coming of the Lord are eerily similar to the pre flood time. That wouldn't make it all that new, would it?

 

[sandwiches]

No idea what you are blathering about.

This properly summarizes your post.

 

[dad]

lol what? are you off the medicine. i didnt even type that someone else did and i quoted them

You responding to post 667? Get a grip.

 

[dad]

Try walking through a wall or flying back to the past. Ive yet to seen something do that? it will never happen because we live in a physical universe.

It has happened. It is a matter of record and preserved in writings we call the bible.

Saying we cant see spiritual objects because their invisible is a childish lie/ i might as well say we were created by a sesame street character controlling the matrix. We cant see these objects probably cuz they arent there

The spiritual is separate from the daily physical world of man. To claim it is visible normally here, would be childish. But it can be when God butts in.

Well i think the pressure is on you too prove string theory wrong because its accepted.

No need. It is a fanciful dream that has no real basis in any reality.

Come up with some reasonable evidence to show it wrong and we'll start listening

Come up with some that makes it right, and I might try to shoot it down in flames quicker than one can say 'I'm better at rap than you'... Until then, it remains a silly shadow, not worth punching at.

 

[snackster29]

It has happened. It is a matter of record and preserved in writings we call the bible.



The spiritual is separate from the daily physical world of man. To claim it is visible normally here, would be childish. But it can be when God butts in.



No need. It is a fanciful dream that has no real basis in any reality.



Come up with some that makes it right, and I might try to shoot it down in flames quicker than one can say 'I'm better at rap than you'... Until then, it remains a silly shadow, not worth punching at.

go walk through a wall then