Where does this stuff come from?

Sketcher

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I had an awkward talk with my father earlier. I rarely talk to him, between COVID-19 and also the fact politically we are like oil and water, and he's been blathering on more and more about politics lately, instead of more pleasant subjects.

But tonight he called and suggested I need to go out and update my passport because my old one was out of date (I have 4 years to renew it, though... so I'm baffled why it has to be done now, even though both me and my S.O. consider ourselves at higher risk from COVID). And then he started talking about how "You know, masks have been giving people strep infections and they really don't work... blah blah blah". And I just sort of rolled my eyes and wasn't willing to argue with him. But it's awkward because I don't want to have to confront my own dad and argue with him, but he's flat out wrong.

Just who is dealing in this kind of crazy disinformation? Where does it come from? Is there something in the drinking water that suddenly makes people gullible fools (if so, I'm glad mine is filtered)? Every time I talk to him, it's some new crazy thing he says. And it's getting old real fast- I'm just not one to want to argue with my own father, and my mother believes this stuff, too.
I'm not exactly sure where the information is coming from, but I think the bigger problem is that the people I know who are most amenable to latching onto that belief are the least amenable to discussing it rationally - they'd rather be militant about it. Fortunately, I don't know very many of them.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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I've also had my doctor tell me the masks are useless, and a few weeks back, my wife's doctor told her the same thing during a visit. It's pretty obvious if one even things about it a bit.
I doubt that. My dad's and moms doctors say differently.
 
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Hank77

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IF you go back and find reports like this one at the beginning of the outbreak, you'll find that the CDC and other doctors say things like the masks are not recommended at all for people who are not already sick. That was the common theme, then somewhere we went off the deep end into insanity.

The doctor said that you should wear a mask when you are sick so you don't spread your illness to others.

That's the point!
We should wear masks to protect each other. Some people never really feel sick just a headache or low fever maybe and others are asymptomatic and never know they even have covid. So if they don't wear a mask they are spreading it.

Seven people caught covid at the White House garden reception. Do you think someone there knew they were sick and just deliberately went and didn't wear a mask? Or did they not know they were sick and didn't wear a mask?

South Korea should have been the ones we looked to. They have had experience with Sars viruses before. What did they do? Everyone wore masks and they immediately started testing and tracing.
 
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IF you go back and find reports like this one at the beginning of the outbreak, you'll find that the CDC and other doctors say things like the masks are not recommended at all for people who are not already sick. That was the common theme, then somewhere we went off the deep end into insanity.


Then we found out the incubation period of the virus can be up to 2 weeks, that means they are infected but haven't yet developed symptoms. There are also people who get the virus but remain symptom free the whole time they have it. But infected people are still spreading the virus during that time. Masks reduce the possibility of people who have the virus from passing it on to others.

Going maskless puts other people at risk.
 
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RickReads

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The conspiracy theory explosion is very noticeable isn't it.

The reason to create a false meme like claiming masks don't help us might be started by someone wishing to harm America. Or...the originator really might just be that out of touch with the real, completely caught up in a created fantasy worldview.

The claims are coming from doctors apparently. I saw one on TV who said that a mask will help stop you from spreading covid but will not prevent you from getting it from someone else.

In other words the mask can stop you from contaminating the air by speaking or coughing but if it gets on you it will penetrate your mask unless you are wearing one of the expensive hospital grade masks that are air tight, sealed off. That kind of mask is custom fitted.

I don`t remember the doctors name but that is what the man said.
 
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Kentonio

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IF you go back and find reports like this one at the beginning of the outbreak, you'll find that the CDC and other doctors say things like the masks are not recommended at all for people who are not already sick. That was the common theme, then somewhere we went off the deep end into insanity.

This is what gets me about you guys, you’ll apparently listen to experts when they’re saying what you want to hear, but as advice is updated due to expanding information suddenly those same experts shouldn’t be listened to.
 
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disciple Clint

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I had an awkward talk with my father earlier. I rarely talk to him, between COVID-19 and also the fact politically we are like oil and water, and he's been blathering on more and more about politics lately, instead of more pleasant subjects.

But tonight he called and suggested I need to go out and update my passport because my old one was out of date (I have 4 years to renew it, though... so I'm baffled why it has to be done now, even though both me and my S.O. consider ourselves at higher risk from COVID). And then he started talking about how "You know, masks have been giving people strep infections and they really don't work... blah blah blah". And I just sort of rolled my eyes and wasn't willing to argue with him. But it's awkward because I don't want to have to confront my own dad and argue with him, but he's flat out wrong.

Just who is dealing in this kind of crazy disinformation? Where does it come from? Is there something in the drinking water that suddenly makes people gullible fools (if so, I'm glad mine is filtered)? Every time I talk to him, it's some new crazy thing he says. And it's getting old real fast- I'm just not one to want to argue with my own father, and my mother believes this stuff, too.
Just something for consideration, there will come a day when you will no longer be able to talk to your father.
 
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Sparagmos

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The claims are coming from doctors apparently. I saw one on TV who said that a mask will help stop you from spreading covid but will not prevent you from getting it from someone else.

In other words the mask can stop you from contaminating the air by speaking or coughing but if it gets on you it will penetrate your mask unless you are wearing one of the expensive hospital grade masks that are air tight, sealed off. That kind of mask is custom fitted.

I don`t remember the doctors name but that is what the man said.
What you just described, with a minor tweak, is common knowledge. We wear masks to protect others, not ourselves. The minor tweak is that the mask does provide some protection for the wearer, but not much. It’s primary purpose is to protect others.
 
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MehGuy

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Sorry to hear about that. A year ago I'd think my father might have been in a similar boat. He used to watch Fox News all the time. Yet he's drastically changed politically this year. He was in a coma for about a month at the start of the year and he came out with a somewhat different personality and temperament. He's much more brash and angry now. Yet most of his anger is directed towards republicans and Donald Trump. While I enjoy visiting him.. I often have to tell him to cool down on the anti-Donald/Fox/Conservative outlet talk. While I am not a fan of such things, I also do not want it to cloud my thoughts either.

So I am happy that he understands the value of wearing a mask and doing his part to curb the spread of the virus. I've even gotten him to be more sympathetic towards the idea of global warming being a thing. He used to be an extreme progressive atheist during his young adult days, so I guess he has always had another side of to him that could awaken again.
 
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Greengardener

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Some good thoughts here, and thanks for getting this thread going. For what it's worth, this is what came to mind as I read through it. In a society of continually frazzled and militant points of view with insufficient data and trust in what data we do have to solidify a response, it remains important to do your own thinking. Since this is a Christian forum, for those who think God told us what we need to know, a reading through the OT for the communicable disease laws would be in order, since during the Exodus Moses led a huge population of people in a relatively constricted space, not unlike how many of us live today. I don't think you'll go far wrong is you look over what is there, use your God-given reasoning to come up with the most sensible response in your own situation, commit your way to God, and look at all the data with a slight degree of jaundice, not just when it doesn't support your pre-conceived point of view. In addition, with all the divisive media efforts, remember to be gracious, and if necessary distant or protected when in contact with those who would want to take liberties that you aren't comfortable with - stand your ground, as it were, in love. Also, in your case, this is your dad - a one-of-a-kind relationship: my dad isn't around to have this discussion. As a former post mentioned, most likely you'll face the same situation I have far too soon - it's just the nature of time. My best advise would be do your best to love him as best you can, honoring him and being gracious to him. At some future point we'll have more information and can make more accurate opinions based on more actual science - or so I hope. In the meantime, I don't think you'll regret walking in love.
 
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stevil

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Just who is dealing in this kind of crazy disinformation? Where does it come from? Is there something in the drinking water that suddenly makes people gullible fools (if so, I'm glad mine is filtered)?
Probably Foxnews.
 
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stevil

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Faucci and the surgeon general both have said masks are not effective.
Faucci initially wanted general people not to get masks because he wanted the medical proffessionals to be able to get what was a limited supply in the early days.

Now Faucci is recommending that people wear masks and suggesting a government mandate might be necessary.

Fauci says he doesn't regret telling Americans not to wear masks at the beginning of the pandemic
I don’t regret anything I said then because in the context of the time in which I said it, it was correct. We were told in our task force meetings that we have a serious problem with the lack of PPEs and masks for the health providers who are putting themselves in harm’s way every day to take care of sick people

“When it became clear that we could get the infection could be spread by asymptomatic carriers who don’t know they’re infected, that made it very clear that we had to strongly recommend masks,” he said.

“And also, it soon became clear that we had enough protective equipment and that cloth masks and homemade masks were as good as masks that you would buy from surgical supply stores,”


The real problem is that Trump's administration, Fox news and Trump's supporters are twisting all this in order to defend Trump's attrocious handling of the pandemic.
They are trying very hard to discredit Faucci and to say that masks are not necessary.
 
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Halbhh

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The claims are coming from doctors apparently. I saw one on TV who said that a mask will help stop you from spreading covid but will not prevent you from getting it from someone else.

In other words the mask can stop you from contaminating the air by speaking or coughing but if it gets on you it will penetrate your mask unless you are wearing one of the expensive hospital grade masks that are air tight, sealed off. That kind of mask is custom fitted.

I don`t remember the doctors name but that is what the man said.
While it's straightforward masks help reduce spread from someone shedding respiratory virus who coughs, laughs, talks etc... so masks work to reduce spread just on that fact alone...

Already helpful.

There is more.

Even a thin surgical mask that fits ok and is worn to cover the nose will help the other, exposed, person by reducing the virus they inhale to a much smaller amount.

And that reduced initial amount helps them be likely to have a less severe case when they do get exposed through the mask.

Those are 2 valuable benefits.
 
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Hank77

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I had an awkward talk with my father earlier. I rarely talk to him, between COVID-19 and also the fact politically we are like oil and water, and he's been blathering on more and more about politics lately, instead of more pleasant subjects.

But tonight he called and suggested I need to go out and update my passport because my old one was out of date (I have 4 years to renew it, though... so I'm baffled why it has to be done now, even though both me and my S.O. consider ourselves at higher risk from COVID). And then he started talking about how "You know, masks have been giving people strep infections and they really don't work... blah blah blah". And I just sort of rolled my eyes and wasn't willing to argue with him. But it's awkward because I don't want to have to confront my own dad and argue with him, but he's flat out wrong.

Just who is dealing in this kind of crazy disinformation? Where does it come from? Is there something in the drinking water that suddenly makes people gullible fools (if so, I'm glad mine is filtered)? Every time I talk to him, it's some new crazy thing he says. And it's getting old real fast- I'm just not one to want to argue with my own father, and my mother believes this stuff, too.
I came across this article today and thought that you may find something helpful in it.
How to talk to conspiracy theorists—and still be kind

It didn't open correctly on my first attempt but it did the second time.
 
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FireDragon76

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I came across this article today and thought that you may find something helpful in it.
How to talk to conspiracy theorists—and still be kind

It didn't open correctly on my first attempt but it did the second time.

That's a good place to start, I suppose, but how do I specifically engage with a close family member who believes dangerous COVD-19 misinformation? I am afraid that if I confront them and refuse to agree with their wild claims (I did sort-of agree in a half-hearted way in the last phone-call "umm... ok...hmm" sort of thing), it will damage what little relationship I have left with them.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I had an awkward talk with my father earlier. I rarely talk to him, between COVID-19 and also the fact politically we are like oil and water, and he's been blathering on more and more about politics lately, instead of more pleasant subjects.

But tonight he called and suggested I need to go out and update my passport because my old one was out of date (I have 4 years to renew it, though... so I'm baffled why it has to be done now, even though both me and my S.O. consider ourselves at higher risk from COVID). And then he started talking about how "You know, masks have been giving people strep infections and they really don't work... blah blah blah". And I just sort of rolled my eyes and wasn't willing to argue with him. But it's awkward because I don't want to have to confront my own dad and argue with him, but he's flat out wrong.

Just who is dealing in this kind of crazy disinformation? Where does it come from? Is there something in the drinking water that suddenly makes people gullible fools (if so, I'm glad mine is filtered)? Every time I talk to him, it's some new crazy thing he says. And it's getting old real fast- I'm just not one to want to argue with my own father, and my mother believes this stuff, too.

There's no major media outlets that just tell facts anymore....they cater to political narratives. It doesn't matter if we're talking about Fox News, CNN, NYT, or whatever.

The transition to "tell them what they want to hear" has been steadily increasing for the past 10 years and the best explanation I've found for this is....the internet and social media.

Major news outlets have steadily lost business to small "news" commentators and social media that cater specifically to political views. Major outlets have realized that they can't compete by just presenting a reasonable balanced view of the facts.

You can still find unbiased sources in small market local news media....major cities are almost a lost cause too though. If you really want to figure out what is going on....you need to examine everything from multiple opposing sources and critically analyze it. Nobody really does this though....

I can remember back in the early 2000s...liberals were able to recognize this creeping bias in right wing media like Fox pretty easily. They saw it, they made fun of it, they figured conservatives were dumb for believing it.

Then in the late 2000s and early 2010s...liberal bias started pushing into CNN, NYT, and WaPo....and they ate it up just as easily as conservatives.

In short, the problem is that we have as a society stopped placing a high value on facts and instead started to value opinions. I blame social media, which deliberately advocates less than intelligent people sharing their opinions and then promotes those opinions based on popularity (via "likes" or "upvotes" etc) . This has created an environment where people are encouraged to say whatever they think is popular....and the truth isn't always popular. In fact, I'd say it's frequently unpopular.

The result is that more polarizing opinions...which appeal to the fringes...can become normalized over time if they're worded popularly enough.

People on both sides have adopted some highly contradictory and ridiculous views. For example, many on the right were both highly critical of Obama's drone attacks on Muslim terrorists and fully supported a half dozen investigations into Clinton's actions regarding Benghazi....yet they had no problem with shooting a missile at an Iranian general who coordinated terrorism and argued against 1 investigation into Trump's Russian ties.

There's a bizarre number of liberals who somehow believe that this is a "white supremacist nation" that has been designed from the ground up to oppress people of color.....and yet also believe that millions of people of color are trying their hardest to cross over our borders, illegally, to find a better life....despite leaving a nation where they were the majority racial demographic.

If there were consistent principles behind these beliefs....they would have to change. It's either wrong to shoot missiles at terrorists and investigate potentially corrupt public officials...or it isn't. Similarly, either this is an oppressive nation that holds down people of color by design....or we provide one of the highest standards of living and the most opportunities for advancement for people of color than even the nations where they are the majority demographic in power.
 
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stevil

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People on both sides have adopted some highly contradictory and ridiculous views. For example, many on the right were both highly critical of Obama's drone attacks on Muslim terrorists and fully supported a half dozen investigations into Clinton's actions regarding Benghazi....yet they had no problem with shooting a missile at an Iranian general who coordinated terrorism and argued against 1 investigation into Trump's Russian ties.
There is a big difference between drone attacks that kill innocent civilians and a strategic attack that kills an Iranian general.

There's a bizarre number of liberals who somehow believe that this is a "white supremacist nation" that has been designed from the ground up to oppress people of color.
Noone actually believes this. There is a big difference between systemic racism and disproportional police brutality, imprisonment etc VS what is portrayed in the sentence above.

....and yet also believe that millions of people of color are trying their hardest to cross over our borders, illegally, to find a better life....despite leaving a nation where they were the majority racial demographic.
This is true. Some seek asylum, so not exactly illegal.

..or we provide one of the highest standards of living and the most opportunities for advancement for people of color than even the nations where they are the majority demographic in power.
This is a very poorly constructed or poorly thought through statement.
 
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Arc F1

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I had an awkward talk with my father earlier. I rarely talk to him, between COVID-19 and also the fact politically we are like oil and water, and he's been blathering on more and more about politics lately, instead of more pleasant subjects.

But tonight he called and suggested I need to go out and update my passport because my old one was out of date (I have 4 years to renew it, though... so I'm baffled why it has to be done now, even though both me and my S.O. consider ourselves at higher risk from COVID). And then he started talking about how "You know, masks have been giving people strep infections and they really don't work... blah blah blah". And I just sort of rolled my eyes and wasn't willing to argue with him. But it's awkward because I don't want to have to confront my own dad and argue with him, but he's flat out wrong.

Just who is dealing in this kind of crazy disinformation? Where does it come from? Is there something in the drinking water that suddenly makes people gullible fools (if so, I'm glad mine is filtered)? Every time I talk to him, it's some new crazy thing he says. And it's getting old real fast- I'm just not one to want to argue with my own father, and my mother believes this stuff, too.

I need to get a refund for all the ppe classes I've had to pay for over the years. Before covid if I had exposed my employees to a project where they could become infected by a lethal virus and all I provided was a surgical mask I would have had osha all over me. High voltage is lethal also, I wonder if I could have just provided a pair of jersey gloves and some sunglasses? Lol
 
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Arc F1

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I doubt that. My dad's and moms doctors say differently.

Every doctor I've spoken to agree that they are useless. Even my wife's heart doctor asked if we minded if she took off her mask as soon as she entered the room. She said and I quote "they don't work anyway"
 
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