Where does this stuff come from?

FredVB

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FireDragon76 said:
I had an awkward talk with my father earlier. I rarely talk to him, between COVID-19 and also the fact politically we are like oil and water, and he's been blathering on more and more about politics lately, instead of more pleasant subjects.

But tonight he called and suggested I need to go out and update my passport because my old one was out of date (I have 4 years to renew it, though... so I'm baffled why it has to be done now, even though both me and my S.O. consider ourselves at higher risk from COVID). And then he started talking about how "You know, masks have been giving people strep infections and they really don't work... blah blah blah". And I just sort of rolled my eyes and wasn't willing to argue with him. But it's awkward because I don't want to have to confront my own dad and argue with him, but he's flat out wrong.

Just who is dealing in this kind of crazy disinformation? Where does it come from? Is there something in the drinking water that suddenly makes people gullible fools (if so, I'm glad mine is filtered)? Every time I talk to him, it's some new crazy thing he says. And it's getting old real fast- I'm just not one to want to argue with my own father, and my mother believes this stuff, too.

There is indeed something that has people believing wild things. That there are conspiracies, governments plan to kill off the citizens of their states, that their president is a new messianic figure they can trust and who is here to save the nation, doing no wrong that fake news media ever mention, that scientists in general are lying, that racism is not really a problem for which there should be any protests or any reforms, and so on. It is like a cult. How do people fall for a cult? I cannot answer that, but I see it happen, people lose their use of critical thinking. Maybe use of online media has something to do with that. They will see signs and wonders that would deceive if possible even the elect (Matthew 24:24, Mark 13:22).
 
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FredVB

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With the political changes with new leadership we are not out of the woods from those circumstances. The same people are still around, and only with a lot more truth spreading to people can we avoid going back to the same situations as before, or possibly coming to worse circumstances.
 
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Petros2015

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Alex Jones, InfoWars, QAnon, David Icke, Flat Earthers - they all lead one into the other and recite each other as authority sources and recite any counter information as possibly false or misleading. It's a giant black hole death spiral

Related podcast in some cases... tracking down misinformation. This is part 1 of a 3-parter but it was interesting to me, I haven't finished part 1 yet, eventually will. It talks a bit about the methods and why it works in this example.

The Chaos Machine: An Endless Hole : Invisibilia
 
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ArmenianJohn

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I had an awkward talk with my father earlier. I rarely talk to him, between COVID-19 and also the fact politically we are like oil and water, and he's been blathering on more and more about politics lately, instead of more pleasant subjects.

But tonight he called and suggested I need to go out and update my passport because my old one was out of date (I have 4 years to renew it, though... so I'm baffled why it has to be done now, even though both me and my S.O. consider ourselves at higher risk from COVID). And then he started talking about how "You know, masks have been giving people strep infections and they really don't work... blah blah blah". And I just sort of rolled my eyes and wasn't willing to argue with him. But it's awkward because I don't want to have to confront my own dad and argue with him, but he's flat out wrong.

Just who is dealing in this kind of crazy disinformation? Where does it come from? Is there something in the drinking water that suddenly makes people gullible fools (if so, I'm glad mine is filtered)? Every time I talk to him, it's some new crazy thing he says. And it's getting old real fast- I'm just not one to want to argue with my own father, and my mother believes this stuff, too.
I don't know exactly but in the case of my aunt and uncle it's a combination of right-wing media and, sad to say, their religious circles, which I'm not sure exactly what they are but pretty sure it's a combination of a church they go to and various televangelists and radio evangelists.

Now they are 80-ish and recently my uncle is in bad shape with heard problems and other problems (please keep him in your prayers if you could). But what saddens me most is that this particular uncle, who for most of my life was one of my favorites because he always had a positive outlook all the time in a true Christian spirit has now become angry all the time and depressed and I would say paranoid.

It's not the illness that made him this way - it had been happening over the last 5 to 10 years, very slowly at first, very quickly ever since Trump was elected. Why I bring it up with his illness is because his negativity is directly affecting his health. Mainly he refuses to take medications and is angry at the doctors because he is mistrustful of any of them. He is depressed which would be understandable given his health but he far beyond the expected depression.

My aunt tells us (and it's unclear if it's her or him saying this but I think they both kind of agree) that Biden is to blame for his problems. In her words, "Everything was fine with Trump, Biden has ruined everything." She believes that "the Lord is punishing us for taking Biden" (she means all of us but also her husband and her in particular).

We (my other family members and I) don't know what to say to her. Her son knows that this is irrational but I don't know if he really tries to convince them their political views are being detrimental - maybe he doesn't necessarily even think so.

But this is why I take the new right-wing propaganda and Trump-related movement so personally; I have never seen such politics affect people in this way before, not in my lifetime.

I used to argue with both of them about politics but gave up 10 or so years ago. It only made them really mad and sometimes made me mad. Since then I try to just impart positivity and Christian values but they will literally just bring the conversation back around to politics. I didn't even realize it affected them this badly until these most recent developments, and it's maddening to see it.

Wherever the lies come from directly to their ears I know they originate from the father of lies, Satan, in hell.
 
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Petros2015

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Wherever the lies come from directly to their ears I know they originate from the father of lies, Satan, in hell.

Agreed. The source of a lie and the desire to knowingly propagate misinformation can come from no other place. Sorry to hear it has affected your family.
 
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FireDragon76

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The good news is that my parents both decided to eventually get vaccinated with the J&J vaccine. Maybe us getting vaccinated and encouraging them to do so as well helped convince them.
 
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FredVB

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I am Christian and I am sure of the truth of Christianity. I sadly know this would bring negative reaction against me from other believers but I see it needs to be said, political Christianity is not biblical Christianity, and it is largely a cult now, contrary to real godliness believers are to grow in, shown in the Bible.
 
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FredVB

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As bad as cults are, there is more danger from Trump cultism as there would if it gets Trump into office again real threat to the democracy and constitutional process, which there was just the hint of starting at the end of Trump's first (if not only) term, and there will really still be a push for him to be in office again, he would certainly run for it, and still have his many unwavering supporters. Cultists of any significant length are not at all likely to be dissuaded.

Matthew 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

When Trump’s Next Coup Happens, the Republican Party Will Fully Support It
 
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cow451

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Faucci and the surgeon general both have said masks are not effective.
Today, Dr. Fauci reiterated the need to continue to wear masks.

cow451 is happy to update your outdated information.
 
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coffee4u

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Faucci and the surgeon general both have said masks are not effective.

July 20, 2021 -- Jerome Adams, the surgeon general during most of the Trump administration, said the federal government made mistakes in its masking guidance last year and may have made another one recently.

Adams expressed his opinion on Twitter recently, saying: “Last year Tony Fauci and I famously, prematurely, & wrongly advised against masks. I felt it was the best call at the time, but now regret it. I’m worried the CDC also made a similarly premature, misinterpreted, yet still harmful call on masking in the face of delta variant.”

Ex-Surgeon General: CDC Mask Guidance May Be ‘Wrong’

No matter who said what, there is still the matter of what was meant when he said "masks are not effective" Not effective at what exactly? No one is saying a mask stops Covid spread 100% but even if it reduces cases in a room by just 1 person isn't that better than all of them getting Covid?
Common sense says that something in front of your mouth and nose will slow down transmission of germs as does good hand washing. No one is saying it is some guarantee against Covid. Does something have to be fool proof to be worth it?
 
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