Where does this stuff come from?

[renniks]

Noone is going to suggest people wear masks that stop them from breathing.

And with that I give up...yep that's what I meant alright, we should wear masks that stop us from breathing. ( Insert Eye roll) Carry on.

 

[LostMarbels]

The mask isn't a placebo at all.

What you are totally ignoring is the effectiveness in widespread use of masks to lower the rate of spread.
You won't even talk about this aspect, just keep on ignoring it.

Do you see how I keep advocating for social distancing and responsible hygiene practices? That is because that is all that is required from the public to mitigate this virus. This is not airborne. Just perform correct hygiene practices and social distancing and you will be fine.

There is no need for the masks. Nor for entire swaths of social life, business and schools to be shut down.

 

[LostMarbels]

The virus particles are indeed small enough to go right through a cloth mask. But the particles are carried in water droplets, which are quite large enough to be mostly stopped by the masks.

If the virus particles could readily spread through the air outside of water droplets, then practically everybody in Tokyo would have the virus by now. The subways alone would transmit the virus like mad. But look, the Tokyo residents are all wearing masks.

Again... how do you term this? A misnomer? A large space like a subway or bus with many people breathing actually becomes airborne by proxy of particulate suspension. So many people breathing in the enclosed space will actual inundate the area with particulates far too small to be filtered out.

You would need ventilation.

Large droplets drop to the surface/ground. Air filtration does not help with particulates that are too heavy to be drawn against gravity into the filtering media. COVID is spread by direct contact.

 

[FireDragon76]

I see you swallowed that bait and belived the popular narrative. That makes tightening the moose next time even easier. Don't worry, you won't feel a thing.

I recognize my own values based on respect for human life. You are the one making this political.

 

[FireDragon76]

And again... this is presented as a worldwide pandemic killing millions and possibly millions more. The minimum is level C PPE that is not available to the public in the quantities needed. The face masks are a placebo. All they are is a security blanket to make people feel like they are in control and have sort of safety. Paper and cloth face masks are not stopping anything. Anyone who routinely utilizes them is still at risk of contacting and/or spreading the virus.

Quite literally, the face masks just emotionally make people feel better about a situation they have no control over.

The overreach is in forcing others to take wear a mask even tho they recognize it as a placebo. In order to placate the sensibilities of others that believe in the placebo/token/talisman/favor.... as in: "if I wear this 'item' I am protected"

That amounts to a conspiracy theory. Masks work. There's plenty of evidence from flu outbreaks that they should work. Coronavirus is a virus, not miasmic vapours or the "wrath of God".

 

[Triumvirate]

Then you've completely flip-flopped from your original position that racial representation matters.

You're the one inserting that 'should' in there where one does not necessarily belong. There is more than one way of interpreting the statement, and you are insisting there is only one, that contains a 'should'.

Again, read what you are presented with, not what you imagine to be there. This is so boring.

I see where your mistake is....

You think that people did hateful racial crimes like lynching in the past because of words.

yeah i think 'thunderously idiotic' was a correct assessment, wow

I think they did those things because of ideas.

You see...all sorts of ideas about race were created, and taught, but they all amounted to saying that black people were in many ways "less than" whites...in the past.

It's that idea...the idea that somehow skin color can hold value...that's the problem. Skin color, race, they don't have any value.

Now, I understand that's difficult for you....because you clearly do place value on race. Your entire argument to this point has been that people should value some races in certain ways...and not value others.

That's the start of every racist idea, every racist theory. That's how you can stop seeing people as just individuals...and start seeing them as just members of a race. From there , it's easy to start assigning collective guilt....collective blame....collective immorality, laziness, criminality, etc.

That's how you end up hanging people in trees for crimes they didn't commit.

I would suggest that you take a hard look at yourself, and what you believe, and try to be honest about why you want to assign value to race.

Look, you're clearly more worried about what might happen to white people in some hypothetical than what is actually happening to nonwhite people - so obviously you have to keep inventing...whatever to deflect from your racist bias. But the idea that slurs don't contain ideas is another silly idea that just doesn't hold up.

I mentioned that all these conversations will involve for whites is discomfort, and you concocted some hypothetical scenario about white people being discriminated against, while composing pages and pages of nonsense about how slurs are unimportant, despite the fact they patently are. Curious how the former didn't need to be argued against in the same way, but a pretty standard argument from nonwhite activists must have essays written about it, isn't it?

Revealing. Your mask slipped. Work on that. Do better.

 

[FireDragon76]

USA Today fact check. CDC study does not suggest that mask's don't work:

Fact check: CDC study does not find that masks are ineffective

 

[LostMarbels]

That amounts to a conspiracy theory. Masks work. There's plenty of evidence from flu outbreaks that they should work. Coronavirus is a virus, not miasmic vapours or the "wrath of God".

So... what happened to the whole accusation that I do not post proof or listen to professionals?

It is a class C lvl 2, BSL-2 virus.

 

[FireDragon76]

So... what happened to the whole accusation that I do not post proof or listen to professionals?

It is a class C lvl 2, BSL-2 virus.

You are not an epidemiologist, virologist ,or other medical professional, so you have no expertise on this subject.

 

[LostMarbels]

You are not an epidemiologist, virologist ,or other medical professional, so you have no expertise on this subject.

But linking to the people who are means nothing? Why can't people admit they personally feel safer with the masks? Why do we have to pretend it is some sort of scientific thing when it is actually a personal preference that makes some feel safer?

 

[stevil]

Do you see how I keep advocating for social distancing and responsible hygiene practices? That is because that is all that is required from the public to mitigate this virus. This is not airborne. Just perform correct hygiene practices and social distancing and you will be fine.

There is no need for the masks. Nor for entire swaths of social life, business and schools to be shut down.

It is great that you support social distancing and hygiene.

But you are also peddling in misinformation which if anyone listens to you, will likely lead to loss of life.

 

[stevil]

And with that I give up...yep that's what I meant alright, we should wear masks that stop us from breathing. ( Insert Eye roll) Carry on.

It was your criticism of cloth masks. You said that breathing goes right through it.
Of course it does.

 

[LostMarbels]

But you are also peddling in misinformation which if anyone listens to you, will likely lead to loss of life.

Where is this stated as airborne? It isn't.

Sneezing/coughing into your shoulder is as, if not more effective than sneezing into a mask. And anything that escapes is still too small to be filtered.

 

[FireDragon76]

And this is why western societies, especially the United States, are sick right now, and Asian societies are going to rebound faster from the effects of the pandemic. The infatuation with individualism, disdain for expertise or obvious hierarchies, and the lack of appreciation for social responsibility, is literally killing us.

 

[Triumvirate]

And this is why western societies, especially the United States, are sick right now, and Asian societies are going to rebound faster from the effects of the pandemic. The infatuation with individualism, disdain for expertise or obvious hierarchies, and the lack of appreciation for social responsibility, is literally killing us.

Yeah, not to be blunt, but frankly other countries are not being this utterly dense.

 

[LostMarbels]

It was your criticism of cloth masks. You said that breathing goes right through it.
Of course it does.

Why do you think we use fit tests to test respirators?

 

[Ana the Ist]

2) Of course there is a connection between behaviour and implicit bias, do you actually understand what implicit bias actually means?

Nope....there's a few hundred studies, a large number of them done by the people who came up with IAT, and there's at best a tiny relationship between implicit bias and behavior .

Those are the facts.

3) Of course being aware of implicit bias means something. If you actually accept that you have implicit biases towards something you can monitor your own reactions in those situations and avoid negative reactive behaviour.

Nope....that's not how it works. They've got any number of studies showing that being aware of implicit bias doesn't change behavior.

 

[Neogaia777]

Look it is the same thing as filtering water, something I've been studying and gotten into recently, some or any kind of filtration is better than none, even a simple cloth, but still not 100% effective and does not filter out all, but it does some, which could make the difference between you getting sick from it or not, etc...

Your body can handle a "certain amount" before it cannot, and some filtration is always better than none, etc...

Filtering air and water is very much the same, etc...

Sure viruses are very small, but they also piggyback on other particles much of the time also, larger ones, also, part of the way they stay alive long enough for it to be spread around, etc...

And it is airborne to a certain degree, but does not survive very long in the air, etc, which is why they have the social distancing, etc, so someone would have to breathe close to you, or breathe right on you, or cough or sneeze in your immediate vicinity and you be right in it's path for you to get it, etc, but even something as simple as cloth over your nose and mouth, and if they also have one over theirs, does help, etc....

It is just like the flu, or "anything else", etc, and people would not be wearing them, or ever even invented them, let alone be using them, in say, the medical fields, if they were 100% absolutely not at all even partially effective, etc...

And they are actually "pretty effective", 100%, no, but something like 95, to 97, to 99, to 99.5, to 99.9% effective, depending on what they are, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Ana the Ist]

1) It's not supposed to be a scientific experiment that predicts people's behaviour, and the idea that it was ever intended as such is laughable. It was a simplistic test that if taken honestly can reveal to the person being tested a subconscious bias. It doesn't rely on the answer at the end, the process is part of the result if you actually go into it with an open mind.
2) Of course there is a connection between behaviour and implicit bias, do you actually understand what implicit bias actually means?
3) Of course being aware of implicit bias means something. If you actually accept that you have implicit biases towards something you can monitor your own reactions in those situations and avoid negative reactive behaviour.
4) Fun fact, the only person who you would be cheating by cheating on the test is yourself! Seriously, its an internet based test with literally no consequences besides any you apply yourself. Why on earth would you cheat? Are you that insecure about your own potential implicit biases?

Let's try this again....

Psychology’s favourite tool for measuring implicit bias is still mired in controversy

On that last key point, there is surprising agreement. In 2015 Greenwald, Banaji, and their coauthor Brian Nosek stated that the psychometric issues associated with various IATs “render them problematic to use to classify persons as likely to engage in discrimination”. Indeed, these days IAT evangelist and critic alike mostly agree that the test is too noisy to usefully and accurately gauge people’s likelihood of engaging in discrimination — a finding supported by a series of meta-analyses showing unimpressive correlations between IAT scores and behavioral outcomes (mostly in labs).

That's the people who created the test...they're literally saying it doesn't predict behavior.

If you think the test can show someone is biased against black people....that's a questionable conclusion. If you think the test can show someone biased will discriminate against a black person....you're 100% wrong.

That's what the research says, that's what the science says, and that's what the people who made the test say.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You're the one inserting that 'should' in there where one does not necessarily belong.

I asked if racial representation matters....you said...

Sure. It's better, but hardly perfect in many respects.

So yes, you think it matters and yes you think it's better than being represented by someone who isn't your own race.

Now you're trying to claim that people shouldn't vote for people of their own race.

That's a flip flop.

yeah i think 'thunderously idiotic' was a correct assessment, wow

You're the one who thinkt racial slurs lead to lynchings.

Look, you're clearly more worried about what might happen to white people in some hypothetical than what is actually happening to nonwhite people - so obviously you have to keep inventing...whatever to deflect from your racist bias. But the idea that slurs don't contain ideas is another silly idea that just doesn't hold up.

Boring, unoriginal and defensive.

Personally, I think it's sad that the people who make these arguments are so scared of having a real discussion.

I mentioned that all these conversations will involve for whites is discomfort, and you concocted some hypothetical scenario about white people being discriminated against, while composing pages and pages of nonsense about how slurs are unimportant, despite the fact they patently are.

Again....you think people get lynched for slurs. It's silly.

Revealing. Your mask slipped. Work on that. Do better.

No masks here....I don't think people should be treated differently based on their race.

I asked if you believed the same and you ignored it. Your mask slipped.

Just say that you don't support racial discrimination of any kind...against anyone. It's not difficult.