Where does this stuff come from?

[stevil]

So when you say "systemic racism" you mean "all of society is racist"?

Unfortunately you don't appear to have listened to what I have been saying.
I have spelled out quite a few times that systemic racism occurs even when the culprits aren't racist.

And you're not going to answer it....despite insisting it's a good question.

I have said quite clearly that this is a society problem and needs everyone to work towards it (not just the black community, and not just white folk)

Notice that no where in there did you actually explain what to do to solve the problem from your example.

Everyone's situation is different. You don't need me to hold your hand, analyse your position and offer my advice on what actions you personally can take.
People need to think for themselves on what they can do personally about it.

I've always thought their lives matter....so apparently thinking that doesn't change anything.

So, have you don't anything when blacks are murdered and brutalised by police?
Have you suggested or supported police reform, or have you gone out of your way to defend the police?

Did you find it shocking to see a police officer pin down some guy with his knee on the back of the guy's neck for several minutes causing the guy to suffocate to death?

In all fairness....everyone finds it difficult to get top jobs. That's why they're the top jobs.

And we are right back to supporting systemic racism.
No, everyone isn't in the same situation. Blacks as a demographic are much less likely to get those jobs, because of the way society operates right now.

Yeah but I didn't do that....I'm not guilty of it. Arguably any black people under 50 aren't victims of this historic treatment either.

And again back to being on the defensive and, as such unwittingly, supporting systemic racism.
Because blacks started off as slaves, back then the whites had the power and the money.
Power and money is handed down from parents to children, jobs and opportunities are given to those in your social circles. Blacks have been disadvantaged over several generations and this is making it harder for them as a demographic. What is being done to address this? Ignoring it doesn't help. Stating "I didn't own slaves" doesn't help.

What do you think should be done?

It's a very big question and would take years of study and inquiry on my behalf to even be qualified to publish such an opinion. From a high level, I think everyone in society should accept the problem exists and each think about what they personally can do, and turn that into some kind of action.
Sorry, I know you want me to give specifics, but I can't.
You are living in USA, not me. If you are recognising the problem and doing something about it then great.

 

[stevil]

Well I'm so glad you could read their minds. Of course, they should have just let the protesters come in the house and break stuff, including them, as they've done in many other places.
Because being proactive and chasing the thugs away is so wrong.

Why do you call them thugs? They were a group of people walking down a street. What qualifies them as thugs?

The white couple on the other hand, armed themselves and pointed their loaded guns at people who where peacefully walking down a street.

I know which of these two groups I would call thugs.

 

[stevil]

The guy obviously wasn't afraid for his own personal safety. If he was he wouldn't have walked out into the open him and his wife desperately outnumbered compared to the protesters. If the protesters had guns, knives or ill intent, the guy and his wife would have been easily killed with the silly approach of standing out in the open. People don't do that when they are genuinely in danger.

If you are in a boat and a group of sharks swim by, does a scared person grab a harpoon and jump in the water to confront the sharks?

 

[stevil]

Well I'm so glad you could read their minds. Of course, they should have just let the protesters come in the house and break stuff, including them, as they've done in many other places.
Because being proactive and chasing the thugs away is so wrong.

What do you mean when you say "they"?

Are you talking about specific people that were in this group? Or are you lumping black people together?
A group of blacks somewhere else broke into a house, so this group of black people must be the same, have the same intent?

 

[Speedwell]

What do you mean when you say "they"?

Are you talking about specific people that were in this group? Or are you lumping black people together?
A group of blacks somewhere else broke into a house, so this group of black people must be the same, have the same intent?

Intent expressed by walking peacefully and unarmed across a strip land of disputed ownership outside of the householders' actual yard.

 

[renniks]

What do you mean when you say "they"?

Are you talking about specific people that were in this group? Or are you lumping black people together?
A group of blacks somewhere else broke into a house, so this group of black people must be the same, have the same intent?

BLM " protesters". Makes no difference what color they were.

 

[renniks]

Intent expressed by walking peacefully and unarmed across a strip land of disputed ownership outside of the householders' actual yard.

A technicality.
"I was a person scared for my life, protecting my wife, my home, my hearth, my livelihood. I was a victim of a mob that came through the gate,"

"There is no question under Missouri law that the McCloskeys had the right to own and use their firearms to protect themselves from threatened violence," Hawley asserted, "and that any criminal prosecution for these actions is legally unsound."

 

[stevil]

A technicality.
"I was a person scared for my life, protecting my wife, my home, my hearth, my livelihood. I was a victim of a mob that came through the gate,"

"There is no question under Missouri law that the McCloskeys had the right to own and use their firearms to protect themselves from threatened violence," Hawley asserted, "and that any criminal prosecution for these actions is legally unsound."

There was no threatened violence.
The guy wasn't trying to protect his wife. His wife was there, out in the open, she walked right over to the protesters.. If the man was worried about his wife's life, he would have been pleading with her to go inside and lock the door.

His account just doesn't hold water.

 

[renniks]

There was no threatened violence.
The guy wasn't trying to protect his wife. His wife was there, out in the open, she walked right over to the protesters.. If the man was worried about his wife's life, he would have been pleading with her to go inside and lock the door.

His account just doesn't hold water.

In your opinion, but since you were not there and they didn't cut through your lock, well I can't take your opinion seriously.

 

[stevil]

In your opinion, but since you were not there and they didn't cut through your lock, well I can't take your opinion seriously.

They didn't cut through this couple's lock. It appears they didn't cut through anyone's lock.
They hadn't threatened anyone, hadn't committed any crimes, weren't armed. They were just walking together in a group down a street. They weren't even going to this man's house. Just walking past it.

 

[Speedwell]

In your opinion, but since you were not there and they didn't cut through your lock, well I can't take your opinion seriously.

What lock? You're embroidering

 

[renniks]

What lock? You're embroidering

Watch now: About that broken gate at Portland Place

 

[stevil]

Watch now: About that broken gate at Portland Place

But on the other hand here is evidence showing protesters walking through that gate, with it opened and undamaged and then immediately encountering that guy with the AR-15.

The damaged gate did not prompt the man to go get his gun as clearly the gate was not damaged when he was out on his lawn threatening the protesters with his gun.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Unfortunately you don't appear to have listened to what I have been saying.
I have spelled out quite a few times that systemic racism occurs even when the culprits aren't racist.

So....systemic not-racism would be putting it better

I have said quite clearly that this is a society problem and needs everyone to work towards it (not just the black community, and not just white folk)

Yeah but you also said it can't be solved without white people.

Everyone's situation is different. You don't need me to hold your hand, analyse your position and offer my advice on what actions you personally can take.
People need to think for themselves on what they can do personally about it.

So this is an individual problem that people need to work on individually?

So, have you don't anything when blacks are murdered and brutalised by police?
Have you suggested or supported police reform, or have you gone out of your way to defend the police?

I support police reform....just not necessarily the suggestions people have made.

Statistically though...I don't know how big the problem is.

Did you find it shocking to see a police officer pin down some guy with his knee on the back of the guy's neck for several minutes causing the guy to suffocate to death?

I am...I would recommend that officer faces murder charges....which he is.

As far as I can tell the system dealt with that problem appropriately.

And we are right back to supporting systemic racism.

No....that's a fact.

No, everyone isn't in the same situation. Blacks as a demographic are much less likely to get those jobs, because of the way society operates right now.

Most white people, asian people, latinos, and black people don't have "top jobs". You're talking about very few jobs amongst millions of people.

And again back to being on the defensive and, as such unwittingly, supporting systemic racism.
Because blacks started off as slaves, back then the whites had the power and the money.
Power and money is handed down from parents to children, jobs and opportunities are given to those in your social circles. Blacks have been disadvantaged over several generations and this is making it harder for them as a demographic. What is being done to address this? Ignoring it doesn't help. Stating "I didn't own slaves" doesn't help.

If a person works hard and succeeds....who should benefit from that? Him and his family and maybe his friends? Or some group you've decided should benefit?

That's kind of the whole point of working hard an succeeding....it's so you can reap the benefits. If someone else gets the benefits....what's the point of working hard?

It's a very big question and would take years of study and inquiry on my behalf to even be qualified to publish such an opinion. From a high level, I think everyone in society should accept the problem exists and each think about what they personally can do, and turn that into some kind of action.
Sorry, I know you want me to give specifics, but I can't.
You are living in USA, not me. If you are recognising the problem and doing something about it then great.

Racism is a problem....but as it primarily starts as an idea....there's nothing to be done about it. I can't stop people from having ideas.

 

[stevil]

So....systemic not-racism would be putting it better

It is systematically detrimental to certain races. Pervasive through-out society.

Yeah but you also said it can't be solved without white people.

It needs masses of people to try and combat it. In many countries the "whites" are the majority. If they stand back and say "not my problem" even though many are going with status quo, unwittingly continuing with systematic racism. It takes all to try and combat it from many different angles. Black communities could encourage schooling and parents encouraging and supporting kids education and also providing an education culture at home (not just relying on schools to educate their kids). <I'm in danger when I say stuff like this because it assumes there is a problem in the home and a problem with kids being interested in schooling. I'm not in the USA system so I don't know what the exact problems are, but I'm just highlighting that all approaches should be taken, not just one approach, find where the issues are, find out why, workout how to address those issues>.
Schools need to be affordable and of quality. If blacks are committing more crimes then this needs to be addressed? Why are they going down this path? IF police are harder on blacks than whites, then this needs to be addressed, if sentencing is harsher on blacks then this needs to be addressed, if people are hiring their friends and contacts and this is resulting in a lower ratio of blacks being hired then this needs to be addressed. If people are calling the police or getting their guns out when a stranger of a different colour walks by then they really need to change their behaviour. Certain news outlets need to stop trying to portray certain races as violent (e.g. the BLM protests are portrayed as peaceful on many outlets but are portrayed as violent riots on Fox News)

Everyday people can make a difference, but they need to change their way of thinking.

So this is an individual problem that people need to work on individually?

That's a twist of what I've been saying.
This is a society problem of which each individual should be asking themselves "what can I do to improve things". Think globally, act locally.

Statistically though...I don't know how big the problem is.

Not just about statistics. How do you think black people feel when they see videos of police brutalising and killing blacks? Does that give them faith in society?

As far as I can tell the system dealt with that problem appropriately.

If this was just a one off case, then sure. But it seems these happen quite often.
Do you need more reform, more education, more support in the police force? Half of USA is demanding this, the other half are denying there is a problem.

Most white people, asian people, latinos, and black people don't have "top jobs". You're talking about very few jobs amongst millions of people.

Those top jobs become influential with regards to hiring or giving out contracts to vendors and business partners. If they are sticking with their acquaintances then those opportunities are going to "white" folk and the minorities are missing out.
I understand that at the detail level most whites are not "privileged", but statistically the blacks are being shut out of these opportunities. That lack of opportunity turns into lack of hope and despair and then what is the use working hard for an education. Society is stacked up against them.

If a person works hard and succeeds....who should benefit from that? Him and his family and maybe his friends?

Sure, but can you see how poverty and lack of opportunity can be generational. Blacks perhaps haven't yet been able to get on to a level pegging yet. The vestiges of slavery, segregation, poverty is still impacting them and their children.

Racism is a problem....but as it primarily starts as an idea....there's nothing to be done about it.

I don't agree that nothing can be done about it.
I think both racism and systemic racism can be eroded away by people taking action no matter how big or small.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It is systematically detrimental to certain races. Pervasive through-out society.

Uh huh....so system = society. Why not just call it societal racism?

Furthermore, why call it racism. According to you...it's not necessarily racist . If it's not racist...what is it?

Your words...."systemic racism occurs even when the culprits aren't racist"

It needs masses of people to try and combat it. In many countries the "whites" are the majority. If they stand back and say "not my problem" even though many are going with status quo, unwittingly continuing with systematic racism. It takes all to try and combat it from many different angles. Black communities could encourage schooling and parents encouraging and supporting kids education and also providing an education culture at home (not just relying on schools to educate their kids). <I'm in danger when I say stuff like this because it assumes there is a problem in the home and a problem with kids being interested in schooling. I'm not in the USA system so I don't know what the exact problems are, but I'm just highlighting that all approaches should be taken, not just one approach, find where the issues are, find out why, workout how to address those issues>.

I don't see anything wrong with saying that education is important....I agree. You also have to have faith in the educational system.

Saying this is tacit acknowledgment of some basic principles about how to succeed in our societies (yours and mine). You have to make a series of good choices....and continue making them....and you have to get a little lucky (by which I mean not getting very sick or having some awful tragedy befall you).

1. I'd start the list by saying that you need to understand ,on a fundamental level, the importance of education. Education should not be looked at as a "white" thing but a human thing.
2. It helps to have 2 parents. We find that, statistically, children from single parent households tend to engage in some risky/detrimental behavior more often.
3. You need to not have children before you can afford them. Children are both expensive monetarily and time consuming. A child at 17 is much more likely to set one back than a child at 27 when you have a career.
4. You need to avoid crime, or at least serious crimes. If criminal behavior becomes "normalized" then that person runs a much higher risk of getting caught in the commission of a crime.

You'd agree that any group of people....it doesn't matter who we're talking about....that deviates further from these basic principles of success will probably, as a group, experience worse outcomes....right?

Schools need to be affordable and of quality. If blacks are committing more crimes then this needs to be addressed? Why are they going down this path? IF police are harder on blacks than whites, then this needs to be addressed, if sentencing is harsher on blacks then this needs to be addressed, if people are hiring their friends and contacts and this is resulting in a lower ratio of blacks being hired then this needs to be addressed. If people are calling the police or getting their guns out when a stranger of a different colour walks by then they really need to change their behaviour. Certain news outlets need to stop trying to portray certain races as violent (e.g. the BLM protests are portrayed as peaceful on many outlets but are portrayed as violent riots on Fox News)

Those are very complex questions with what I imagine are very complex answers.

I watched a horde of people just recently storm a Foot Locker in Philadelphia. Why? Because a young black man with a knife charged some cops and got shot. I saw the footage of that too. I also saw people in that community blame the police.

I can't really say why...that's the exact result I'd expect if I charged the cops with a knife. I've seen it happen to white people. There's nothing unusual or really that unexpected about it. It's sad....because someone lost someone they loved over a bad decision.

As for the looting of the Foot Locker...those are just awful people. They're using a moment of tragedy for personal gain. I'm not inclined to think they care about black lives at all.

Everyday people can make a difference, but they need to change their way of thinking.

Change it to what?

That's a twist of what I've been saying.
This is a society problem of which each individual should be asking themselves "what can I do to improve things". Think globally, act locally.

Well that's the issue stevil...I don't discriminate against any race. I believe everyone should be treated as if their race doesn't matter...equally. I don't know anyone openly racist who isn't a minority.

I don't see what I can possibly do about this "problem" despite your insistence that it's people who look like me who need to solve this.

Not just about statistics. How do you think black people feel when they see videos of police brutalising and killing blacks? Does that give them faith in society?

I imagine it feels awful...if they heavily identify with the person brutalized just because they're black.

In all fairness though...the police are not wrong in all these instances.

If this was just a one off case, then sure. But it seems these happen quite often.

Does it? What's "quite often"?

In regards to police shootings....for example....how often do you think the police are making the wrong decision? 1 in 100 times? 1 in 1000? 10k? 100k?

Do you need more reform, more education, more support in the police force? Half of USA is demanding this, the other half are denying there is a problem.

Actually ...half the country was trying to defund or abolish the police (maybe not half but a significant number of people on the left). Now that they see that isn't happening...they're trying for reform.

Unfortunately, protests against police has created a situation where police are uncertain whether they can do their job as they were trained. It's a very different job if they're expected to wait for bullets to fly by their heads before shooting....or as in the Breonna Taylor case...it doesn't even matter if they are shot first. They'll still be blamed.

This situation has resulted in police being less pro-active. As a result of less policing....violent crime is up all over the US, particularly in cities and black communities. Some places like Chicago have seen record amounts of violent crime.

This has resulted in more dead black people. By the police being less active...it's painfully clear just how much they were doing for these communities.

Those top jobs become influential with regards to hiring or giving out contracts to vendors and business partners. If they are sticking with their acquaintances then those opportunities are going to "white" folk and the minorities are missing out.
I understand that at the detail level most whites are not "privileged", but statistically the blacks are being shut out of these opportunities. That lack of opportunity turns into lack of hope and despair and then what is the use working hard for an education. Society is stacked up against them.

I really don't understand what you're saying....

It sounds like you want black people and other minorities to occupy more of these "top jobs" so they can hire black people and benefit other black businesses.

Is that about right?

Sure, but can you see how poverty and lack of opportunity can be generational.

Sure...someone with money has more options than someone poor.

Blacks perhaps haven't yet been able to get on to a level pegging yet. The vestiges of slavery, segregation, poverty is still impacting them and their children.

How much?

If we were going to say that a percentage of their current situation is a result of slavery and segregation....how much?

I don't agree that nothing can be done about it.
I think both racism and systemic racism can be eroded away by people taking action no matter how big or small.

You still haven't explained what action. You said to change their thinking.....but in what way?

 

[stevil]

Uh huh....so system = society. Why not just call it societal racism?

I'm not going to argue about why one set of word are used as opposed to another set of words.

Furthermore, why call it racism. According to you...it's not necessarily racist . If it's not racist...what is it?

Because, ultimately races are discriminated against and have less opportunities. It comes out in the overall statistics

Your words...."systemic racism occurs even when the culprits aren't racist"

Yes, white people don't need to get all defensive, they don't need to argue "but I never owned slaves", "but I never said or did anything racist". Systemic racism exists and is pervasive and it isn't an admission that full blown racists are everywhere.

1. I'd start the list by saying that you need to understand ,on a fundamental level, the importance of education. Education should not be looked at as a "white" thing but a human thing.

What's the point in getting a good education when your family is poor and in USA you can't afford tertiary education? What is the point if you went to a "bad" school and so that limits employment opportunities? What is the point when you submit your CV and it doesn't get looked at because the hirer will pick their friends or people in those circles?

2. It helps to have 2 parents. We find that, statistically, children from single parent households tend to engage in some risky/detrimental behavior more often.

People who stay at school through to get a tertiary qualification usually hold off on having kids early.
Need to have affordable quality education.
Also this is a great reason to support Family Planning and sex education.

4. You need to avoid crime, or at least serious crimes. If criminal behavior becomes "normalized" then that person runs a much higher risk of getting caught in the commission of a crime.

Why are certain demographics getting into crime?

Change it to what?

To consider the challenges that some minorities have, and to challenge yourself on how you can help rather than shrug off and say, not my problem.

I believe everyone should be treated as if their race doesn't matter...equally.

But race does matter, when you see that minorities are struggling, they are being brutalised, the education system is failing them, the legal system is failing them, society is failing them.

I don't see what I can possibly do about this "problem" despite your insistence that it's people who look like me who need to solve this.

This is yet again a twist on what I have been saying. I have never been saying that the problem is the whites (I'm assuming you are white, assuming this is what you mean when you say "people who look like me"). I have said this is a society problem and something that everyone should look to resolve, or at least look to see if they can do something, no matter how small. Not just standby as say the problem is with that racial group and that they need to solve it themselves.

In regards to police shootings....for example....how often do you think the police are making the wrong decision? 1 in 100 times? 1 in 1000? 10k? 100k?

This is a big difference between your country and mine. Also I think a problem that might be unique to USA.
Police in USA are very well known world wide to have itchy trigger fingers.
In my country, most police don't carry guns. In many countries the police use the gun as a last resort.
In USA police are much more likely to shoot and kill people.

Actually ...half the country was trying to defund or abolish the police (maybe not half but a significant number of people on the left).

I don't believe there is any truth to this.
Biden has been accused or mischaracterised by Trump and his minions as wanting to defund the police, but Biden has never supported defunding them.
I very much doubt many on the left want and anarchy state, I certainly find it extremely hard to believe either half or a significant number of lefties what this?
I've not seen anyone on this website promoting defunding or abolishing the police.

It sounds like you want black people and other minorities to occupy more of these "top jobs" so they can hire black people and benefit other black businesses.

Is that about right?

No, that is a twist.
I've been saying that since "whites" have been occupying those jobs for hundreds of years it has been hard for "blacks" and other minorities to get opportunities.
If blacks had a representational proportion of those jobs then it would help their plight. But I don't know how to get that to happen, how to get those positions to look like a representation of society.

I'm certainly not saying I want blacks in there and then want them to prioritise on hiring blacks or giving contracts out to blacks.

If we were going to say that a percentage of their current situation is a result of slavery and segregation....how much?

It would be interesting to see if studies on this have happened and if this has been quantified.

You still haven't explained what action. You said to change their thinking.....but in what way?

Each person's situation is different, I can't tell each person what they should do. They need to think for themselves.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm not going to argue about why one set of word are used as opposed to another set of words.

It's just confusing....

Because, ultimately races are discriminated against and have less opportunities. It comes out in the overall statistics

By some means other than racism?

Yes, white people don't need to get all defensive, they don't need to argue "but I never owned slaves", "but I never said or did anything racist". Systemic racism exists and is pervasive and it isn't an admission that full blown racists are everywhere.

I don't think it's a matter of defensiveness ...you made a claim. It's on you to prove it. I'm an atheist....we're notorious for not believing claims.

What's the point in getting a good education when your family is poor and in USA you can't afford tertiary education?

You mean college? I couldn't afford college either ...I worked my way through and took out loans that I paid for the next 10 years .

It's not easy, but it's an option.

What is the point if you went to a "bad" school and so that limits employment opportunities? What is the point when you submit your CV and it doesn't get looked at because the hirer will pick their friends or people in those circles?

If there's a school that no employers will hire from....I haven't heard of it. I never had an inside track on any job I've ever had. I had to get them all cold.

People who stay at school through to get a tertiary qualification usually hold off on having kids early.

Sure .

Need to have affordable quality education.
Also this is a great reason to support Family Planning and sex education.

I fully agree on both parts....in my mind though, these aren't racial issues. These statements are true for everyone.

Why are certain demographics getting into crime?

That's complicated.

To consider the challenges that some minorities have, and to challenge yourself on how you can help rather than shrug off and say, not my problem.

Everyone has problems.

But race does matter, when you see that minorities are struggling, they are being brutalised, the education system is failing them, the legal system is failing them, society is failing them.

When you say it matters.....what do you mean?

I think everyone should be treated the same.

This is yet again a twist on what I have been saying. I have never been saying that the problem is the whites (I'm assuming you are white, assuming this is what you mean when you say "people who look like me").

When you first began posting on this thread...you described "systemic racism" as primarily a white problem.

I'll go back and look for the relevant quote.

Edit- I found the quote....

I have said this is a society problem and something that everyone should look to resolve, or at least look to see if they can do something, no matter how small. Not just standby as say the problem is with that racial group and that they need to solve it themselves.

Well again....that's a nice sentiment but it doesn't tell me what you think I should do.

This is a big difference between your country and mine. Also I think a problem that might be unique to USA.

Is it?

Police in USA are very well known world wide to have itchy trigger fingers.

I don't know if that's accurate.

In my country, most police don't carry guns. In many countries the police use the gun as a last resort.
In USA police are much more likely to shoot and kill people.

All true....the main reason why this is is the sheer number of violent attacks on police.

Go look at any of those nations you're thinking about and I'd bet police are almost never killed on the job.

I don't believe there is any truth to this.
Biden has been accused or mischaracterised by Trump and his minions as wanting to defund the police, but Biden has never supported defunding them.

No I don't think Biden has supported defunding.....nonetheless, many protesters do.

Defunding police: What it means and what it could look like - CNN

I very much doubt many on the left want and anarchy state, I certainly find it extremely hard to believe either half or a significant number of lefties what this?

I would have agreed with you a year ago....but widespread rioting and looting indicates otherwise.

I've not seen anyone on this website promoting defunding or abolishing the police.

I don't know about that.

No, that is a twist.
I've been saying that since "whites" have been occupying those jobs for hundreds of years it has been hard for "blacks" and other minorities to get opportunities.

Right...I got that part.

If blacks had a representational proportion of those jobs then it would help their plight. But I don't know how to get that to happen, how to get those positions to look like a representation of society.

Representational proportions? A business isn't a society....it's something someone builds.

Here's Jeff Bezos, founder of Amazon, in the 90s....

He's just a skinny guy with a desk and computer selling books online. Now he's the richest man in the world. As you can see, this isn't generational. He actually did it by starting small...and putting in the work...and obviously, making good decisions.

I feel comfortable with the government setting the rules he has to run his business by....he can't for example, deny someone a job because of their skin color. However, I cannot, in principle, support the idea that the government should tell him to meet some sort of boardroom racial quota.

I'm certainly not saying I want blacks in there and then want them to prioritise on hiring blacks or giving contracts out to blacks.

What are you saying then?

It would be interesting to see if studies on this have happened and if this has been quantified.

I don't think it can be....

Take the economic devastation from Covid for example. Every race got hit....some got hit harder than others.

When you add the riots and looting....I'm sad to say that I think many black businesses are gone, and many businesses in black communities are never coming back .

That's going to have an impact that is generational. Economics don't start and stop with slavery and segregation....they're literally affected by everything.

Each person's situation is different, I can't tell each person what they should do. They need to think for themselves.

That's exactly what you're asking though....you're saying that a group of people need to do something.....but you apparently don't know what it is.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm not going to argue about why one set of word are used as opposed to another set of words.


Because, ultimately races are discriminated against and have less opportunities. It comes out in the overall statistics



Yes, white people don't need to get all defensive, they don't need to argue "but I never owned slaves", "but I never said or did anything racist". Systemic racism exists and is pervasive and it isn't an admission that full blown racists are everywhere.




What's the point in getting a good education when your family is poor and in USA you can't afford tertiary education? What is the point if you went to a "bad" school and so that limits employment opportunities? What is the point when you submit your CV and it doesn't get looked at because the hirer will pick their friends or people in those circles?


People who stay at school through to get a tertiary qualification usually hold off on having kids early.
Need to have affordable quality education.
Also this is a great reason to support Family Planning and sex education.


Why are certain demographics getting into crime?


To consider the challenges that some minorities have, and to challenge yourself on how you can help rather than shrug off and say, not my problem.


But race does matter, when you see that minorities are struggling, they are being brutalised, the education system is failing them, the legal system is failing them, society is failing them.


This is yet again a twist on what I have been saying. I have never been saying that the problem is the whites (I'm assuming you are white, assuming this is what you mean when you say "people who look like me"). I have said this is a society problem and something that everyone should look to resolve, or at least look to see if they can do something, no matter how small. Not just standby as say the problem is with that racial group and that they need to solve it themselves.


This is a big difference between your country and mine. Also I think a problem that might be unique to USA.
Police in USA are very well known world wide to have itchy trigger fingers.
In my country, most police don't carry guns. In many countries the police use the gun as a last resort.
In USA police are much more likely to shoot and kill people.



I don't believe there is any truth to this.
Biden has been accused or mischaracterised by Trump and his minions as wanting to defund the police, but Biden has never supported defunding them.
I very much doubt many on the left want and anarchy state, I certainly find it extremely hard to believe either half or a significant number of lefties what this?
I've not seen anyone on this website promoting defunding or abolishing the police.



No, that is a twist.
I've been saying that since "whites" have been occupying those jobs for hundreds of years it has been hard for "blacks" and other minorities to get opportunities.
If blacks had a representational proportion of those jobs then it would help their plight. But I don't know how to get that to happen, how to get those positions to look like a representation of society.

I'm certainly not saying I want blacks in there and then want them to prioritise on hiring blacks or giving contracts out to blacks.



It would be interesting to see if studies on this have happened and if this has been quantified.




Each person's situation is different, I can't tell each person what they should do. They need to think for themselves.

Here's that quote I mentioned in my last post. It's from one of your older posts....

I agree with Biden on this. "Racism in America is an institutional “white man’s problem visited on people of color,”
It's a generalisation of course, because non whites can also be racist.
But in USA the main racism problem is that which is put onto people of colour and primarily it is caused by white people. Not all white people and not even most white people. But to improve the situation you do need white people to address it.

 

[stevil]

By some means other than racism?

It's a form of racism. It's called systemic racism. It doesn't mean that the judges, the police, the hirers go home, take their wigs off and expose their bald shaven heads, hug and kiss their confederate flag they have pinned to their wall, put their feet up and watch Romper Stomper for giggles then go to bed and read Mien Kampf to get themselves to sleep.

You mean college?

I went to college when I was 11 through to 17, then went to university after that.
Most countries consider primary education to be 5-10, secondary to be 11 through to 16 or 17, tertiary is then beyond that, either university or polytechnic or as the USA might consider college to be.

When you say it matters.....what do you mean?

This is in context of my statement
"But race does matter, when you see that minorities are struggling, they are being brutalised, the education system is failing them, the legal system is failing them, society is failing them."
Studies should be done on demographics to see if there are some issues. Then something should be done about that.

I think everyone should be treated the same.

I agree with this. But life doesn't treat everyone fairly. Systemic racism is a thing and needs to be addressed to level the playing field.

When you first began posting on this thread...you described "systemic racism" as primarily a white problem.

Well, no. You said that Biden said it is a white problem.
I agree with Biden in that, in USA the whites are the majority and hence they are a big influence on society. But as I have been saying, I believe that it is everyone in society's problem.

Well again....that's a nice sentiment but it doesn't tell me what you think I should do.

I don't live in your country, I haven't walked in your shoes. I have no idea what your personal situation is, and I am not about to try and micromanage you by telling you what to do.
I'm no expert.

I would have agreed with you a year ago....but widespread rioting and looting indicates otherwise.

Very few people in your country are rioting and looting. Certainly not even close to half the people that lean politically to the left.

Here's Jeff Bezos, founder of Amazon, in the 90s....

And what about Trump, who was a multi-millionaire by the time he was eight, has had everything handed to him on a plate....

However, I cannot, in principle, support the idea that the government should tell him to meet some sort of boardroom racial quota.

I'm not a big fan of racial quota or affirmative action either.

That's exactly what you're asking though....you're saying that a group of people need to do something.....but you apparently don't know what it is.

I'm saying that all people in the society should accept that systemic racism is a thing, and think about what they personally can do about it.