ace of hearts
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heheThere is no strawman argument. There is only your own words disagreeing with God's
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heheThere is no strawman argument. There is only your own words disagreeing with God's
No Scripture calling the sabbath the Lord's Day. Where is it?Well that is not true.
WHAT DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY?
MATTHEW 12:8. For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Hope this helps.
That might count as flaming.Just plain amazing. There's not truth means it's a lie to me. Your posting Rom 3:4 is very off topic and can't be about anything else except accusation. The cults are very good at this.
Does this apply to the person running the generator to provide electricity for your fridge? Remember Ex 20:11? Doing business on the sabbath is also forbidden by the 4th commandment - See Nehemiah.Hello Righterzpen,
That is not correct brother as shown in the earlier posts the GREEK WORD for SABBATON has many word meanings and it is the CONTEXT and the application of when the word is being used that determines the correct meaning.
You were also shown earlier.
The Greek translation of the HEBREW word for SABBATH is SABBATON σάββατον; sabbaton; Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.
As shown above there are 5 meanings of the GREEK translation used as Sabbaton which include;
1, The Sabbath
2, A rest day from working
3, The interval between two Sabbaths (e.g. any day between one Sabbath to another)
4, Plural in all application of Sabbath day, week
5, WEEK (Seven days)
It is the application and the CONTEXT of the scripture that determines what definition is being applied. That is why for example when mia *DAY 1 σάββατον SABBATON is used and knowing the JEWISH and HEBREW naming convention of the says mia sabbaton is translated as the first day of the week or literal tranlater day 1 after the Sabbath (first day of the week) in this case the application of σάββατον SABBATON is to the WEEK.
The scripture do not say the first day of the week is the Sabbath. That is why most of the bible translations are translated as first day of the week.
Regarding the naming convention of day 1 after the Sabbath etc this was already brought up in my last post to you and is the reason that sabbaton has been used correcrtly and also translated correctly as day 1 after the Sabbath or first day of the SABBATON (week).
Now did you have any scripture to address the OP? Where is the scripture that says God's 4th Commandment has been Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?
Hope this helps.
Understood. Please note exactly what I said. I made no reference to the poster.That might count as flaming.
Exactly right.No Scripture calling the sabbath the Lord's Day. Where is it?
Yes. I was referring to what was said to you, not what you said.Understood. Please note exactly what I said. I made no reference to the poster.
The listing of sins isn't a reference to the famous 10.Well your post above brother I suggest you read the scriptures your quoting from nearly all of them show in the within scripture or chapter CONTEXT they are talking about the 10 Commandments by providing examples of one or more of God's 10 commandments (e.g Murder, Adultery, Coveting) These are all God's 10 commandments which determine CONTEXT.
Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you.
OK, thanks. I think that's why his thread in the other forum was closed. I also think it's a if not the reason he's not posting there last I checked.Yes. I was referring to what was said to you, not what you said.
The out come from Acts 15 is the Gentile wasn't required to keep the law of Moses by written letter, nor were they required to attend the synagogue which you don't do.The law of MOSES is not God's 10 commmandments *DEUTERONOMY 31:24-26; EXODUS 24:7. ACTS 15 is not discussing God's 10 commandments it is debating the question; IS CIRCUMCISION A REQUIREMENT OF SALVATION? *ACTS 15:1-2 which is the CONTEXT and question for consideration of ACTS 15.
Your interpretation of the scriptures here brother is in contradiction with what PAUL says elsewhere and the rest of the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures. This outcome of ACTS 15 was that CIRCUMCISION is not a requirement of SALVATION.
Did you not consider what I wrote? "Are" indicates PRESENT TENSE. This present tense verb indicates that these things; i.e. food/drink, festivals, new moons, Sabbath ARE CURRENTLY being observed/practiced by the Colossian Christians. These practices ARE a shadow of things to come. NOT WERE a shadow of things to come. If these practices/observances had ceased, then the use of "were" would have been appropriate but such is not the case is it? Do you now understand the grammatical construction of this verse which helps to interpret it? Or must I define it more for you?"Are"? Are what? Are a shadow.
As compared to the "reality". Would you like to define that for us too?
Jesus said it best.
Matthew 23:24
You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
Of course the New Covenant has come. It's the application of that Covenant that is being discussed here; each with his/her own opinion.So you believe the New Covenant is yet to come? If that's so the NT is a lie.
Great! Then we both know why Jesus was in the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights and not some other time period.Hello brother dstamps, nice to see you again. Jesus spoke in both parables and plainly to those who BELIEVED and FOLLOWED him.
God bless.
Like this?Did you not consider what I wrote? "Are" indicates PRESENT TENSE. This present tense verb indicates that these things; i.e. food/drink, festivals, new moons, Sabbath ARE CURRENTLY being observed/practiced by the Colossian Christians. These practices ARE a shadow of things to come. NOT WERE a shadow of things to come. If these practices/observances had ceased, then the use of "were" would have been appropriate but such is not the case is it? Do you now understand the grammatical construction of this verse which helps to interpret it? Or must I define it more for you?
Hi brother Washed Luminary, nice to meet you and welcome .
Thanks very much for your thoughts brother. Actually though God's 10 commandments are only a part of the OLD COVENANT. The OLD COVENANT was made up of God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) and also the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7; DEUTERONOMY 31:24-26. In the OLD COVENANT God's ETERNAL LAW had the same role that it always has and that is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS while the SHADOW laws in the MOSAIC BOOK of the law *EXODUS 24:7 included the laws of what to do if anyone broke God's 10 any of God's ETERNAL LAW (e.g. burnt offerings, sin offerings meat and drink offerings, cermonial Sanctuary laws, Levitical Priesthood, annual feasts). All of these laws are the SHADOW laws that point to JESUS and God's plan of salvation for mankind in the NEW COVENANT.
GOD'S ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) however under the NEW COVENANT have the same role they always have and that is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.
We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. However, we are saved from SIN not to continue in sin. God's WORD says that All those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.
God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of SIN when broken.
With this in mind the OP is simply asking the questions where in all of God's WORD does it say God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY?
JESUS says that all those who KNOWINGLY follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9.
God's people are in every church *JOHN 10:16 and He knows that many break this commandment out of IGNORANCE because what they have been taught in the Churches they may be in. JESUS says that the hour is coming and NOW is that he will call his people out from following the teachings and tradtions of men to worship God in Spirit and in truth according to his WORD *JOHN 4:23-24
Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9) There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.
Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God? In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
Hope this helps.
Hi brother Washed Luminary, nice to meet you and welcome .
Thanks very much for your thoughts brother. Actually though God's 10 commandments are only a part of the OLD COVENANT. The OLD COVENANT was made up of God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) and also the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7; DEUTERONOMY 31:24-26. In the OLD COVENANT God's ETERNAL LAW had the same role that it always has and that is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS while the SHADOW laws in the MOSAIC BOOK of the law *EXODUS 24:7 included the laws of what to do if anyone broke God's 10 any of God's ETERNAL LAW (e.g. burnt offerings, sin offerings meat and drink offerings, cermonial Sanctuary laws, Levitical Priesthood, annual feasts). All of these laws are the SHADOW laws that point to JESUS and God's plan of salvation for mankind in the NEW COVENANT.
GOD'S ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) however under the NEW COVENANT have the same role they always have and that is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.
We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. However, we are saved from SIN not to continue in sin. God's WORD says that All those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.
God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of SIN when broken.
With this in mind the OP is simply asking the questions where in all of God's WORD does it say God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY?
JESUS says that all those who KNOWINGLY follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9.
God's people are in every church *JOHN 10:16 and He knows that many break this commandment out of IGNORANCE because what they have been taught in the Churches they may be in. JESUS says that the hour is coming and NOW is that he will call his people out from following the teachings and tradtions of men to worship God in Spirit and in truth according to his WORD *JOHN 4:23-24
Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9) There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.
Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God? In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
Hope this helps.
This is not an issue of the Sabbath only, this is an issue of the entire Mosaic Covenant. This old Covenant was broken therefore GodThe challenge I am putting up here in the OP is for anyone to show even one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.
Can anyone please show me where in all the bible does is say (SOLA SCRIPTURA; Scripture only please)...
1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?
2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?
3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?
4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?
5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?
6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?
7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?
8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?
9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?
10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?
11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?
12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?
13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?
14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?
15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?
16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?
17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?
18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?
19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?
20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?
21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?
22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?
23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?
24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?
25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?
26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?
27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?
...................
Something to think about here because we are all accountable to God come judgment day where we will all be judged by the Word of God (John 12:47-48).
God's Word makes it very clear that if we follow the teachings of men over the Word of God we are not following God...
MATTHEW 15:3-9 [3],
[3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift devoted to God, whatsoever you might have received from me;
[6], And honors not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God void by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
[8], These people draw near unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
If we are KNOWINGLY breaking ANY of God's commandments we are not worshipping God.
Look forward to your thoughts...
If you want to know when the Sabbath is, look to the Jews. They have been keeping it every seven days since Exodus chapter sixteen. (manna collection)
Being a student of history ( and particularly christian history ) , I understand that the "recognizable church " was the catholic church from which we get Christmas ( Christ' Mass ) . I also am given to understand that the building of buildings and calling them churches was most likely encouraged by Constantine ( who I would not recognize as a follower according to his life ) I also recognize that the protestant churches kept many of the traditions such as sunday worship along with a "pastor/priest / leader " who brought the world of God to the audience . These are all traditions of men and of course the SDA also follow many of them .Hi brother NeedyFollower, nice to meet you and thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.
Yes I agree that we need to seek JESUS everyday because it is only as we continue in his WORD by BELIEVING and FOLLOWING him that he changes our hearts to LOVE as he first LOVED us. JESUS tells us that if we knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God we are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9.
God's 4th commandment is one of the 10 commandments that gives us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20. God's WORD says if we break ANY ONE of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)
I believe God's people are in every church *JOHN 10:16 and He knows that many break this commandment out of IGNORANCE because what they have been taught in the Churches they may be in. JESUS says that the hour is coming and NOW is that he will call his people out from following the teachings and tradtions of men to worship God in Spirit and in truth according to his WORD *JOHN 4:23-24
Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9) There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.
Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God? In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
God bless and thanks for sharing.
Yeah, like that - because it demonstrates your continued ignorance of the Greek. "Were" is not an accurate translation in this verse. A better translation should read:Like this?
Colossians 2:17 NIV
These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.