where do you think the current PC will end up become?

[snoochface]

You know you don't have to "catch up on" a thread that "forces" you into meditation, right? You can just... not read it? Unwatch it? Not contribute to it?

I don't see how this thread belongs in the Marriage forum anyway. But if it makes me apoplectic, I know how to unwatch it.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Because it has sparked at least 3 other people who feel some of the comments are ludicrous to come on said ludicrous thread and express their thoughts on how ludicrous it is without breaking down the line-by-line ludicrousness while also having a “can you believe this person?” moment levity with each other. Because life is too short to argue over something obviously ludicrous on the Internet, and it’s also too short to not have fun when the opportunity presents itself.

As we say when teaching people to meditate “lighten up, yo.”

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Aaaaaaand... Judging by how my right eye is twitching, time to hit the meditation pillow again...

Because it has sparked at least 3 other people who feel some of the comments are ludicrous to come on said ludicrous thread and express their thoughts on how ludicrous it is without breaking down the line-by-line ludicrousness while also having a “can you believe this person?” moment levity with each other. Because life is too short to argue over something obviously ludicrous on the Internet, and it’s also too short to not have fun when the opportunity presents itself.

As we say when teaching people to meditate “lighten up, yo.”

And thus we can determine who the hardcore feminists are at the forum. Don't get me wrong, I never really have issues with you gals but your essentially saying no one can question anyone with the MeToo movement because we should just trust everyone hands down no matter what. Well right now I will accuse you of sending me viruses in my email. Should people believe me because I said it? According to your logic yes.

Like I said before on the forum. I am fine with feminism. But I am not fine with the more modern hardcore version which paints all men as evil and that say MeToo people are never lying.

Need I remind people of what my post said one this subject before. Friends of my parents had a brother who was married with a daughter. At 14 or so she called the cops and said he molests and rapes her all the time. And like most people assumed it must be true. Because he had no way to prove he didn't do these things, he was sentenced to 20 years in prison (or around 20). Well about 16 years into his sentence the daughter admitted she lied about it all and did it out of revenge for him always grounding her for being out late and hanging out with guys at night.

But she didn't bother to try and get home out of prison. She still let him serve the remaining 4 years. He came out looking like a prison camp worker. Long beard, beyond skinny. Had mental issues. He know is at a facility being taken care of because his minds pretty much gone.

So yes, I think sometimes we can't just assume an accusation is true. In most instances so far things have been proven to be true. With like Weinstein for example. Texts, calls, multiple women saying they were sexually harassed/assaulted. And while the liars may be a tiny percentage, it does still show we can't say "Guilty until proven innocent!".

Also to note my mom was sexually abused, emotionally abused and physically abused the first 16 years of her life by her dad. So I am very much against these sick people who hurt these women in the MeToo moment. I think the problem is some women just don't want to hear anyone could be making false statements. Even if its just a tiny amount.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

1. I am not a “hardcore feminist.”

2. I do not nor have I ever hated men. Of all the accusations that could ever be lobbed my way, “manhater” is for sure one of the most hysterical as quite literally every thread of my being naturally (and often times to my own detriment) literally screaaaaaams the opposite. There is quite literally no fragment of me, known or subliminally, that hates men. Truth be told, I have been told the opposite (that I’m unfriendly or unapproachable to women) on almost a daily basis. I make no bones about the fact that I find relating to or understanding or being friendly with women to be almost impossible and I relate to and get along way better with men.

3. Being called a “hardcore feminist” isn’t actually an insult, so when one attempts to use it as such it says waaaaay more about the insulter than the insulted.

4. Because you know one girl who says she lied (because self-admitting she’s a liar apparently now makes her believable...?), somehow this translates to all or most or even a large number of women lie about sexual assaults? Because for that one story of false accusations, I’ve got a dozen of actual incidents that were never reported for a whole parade of reasons.

5. While poorly expressed, I didn’t entirely disagree with the general kernel of what you said about the trend of sexual accusations of late. Since I’m a mom of three boys and wife to a man who holds a position of power (often unsupervised) over women, the “guilty until proven guilty” accusations is something that bothers me deeply and has really changed how I discuss these matters with my boys and with my husband. Instead of the old “don’t do x, y, z to women” speech I had been giving, it’s now “don’t give the appearance you were ever in a place you could x, y, z to women because the accusation is often times enough to ruin your life.” I am genuinely distressed that this is how I have to teach them this issue as it’s the masculine equivalent advice to telling women that no man should rape her, but she shouldn’t wear sexy clothing because it could get her raped. A woman should be able to dress how she wants without it being seen as an excuse to rape, just as a man should be able to interact with a woman socially without fear it will lead to a false accusation.

6. The part of your post that made me find my calm, blue ocean was the end, where we were supposed to believe that the white male Christian majority is so persecuted that it explains why school shootings are on the rise as men are just that frustrated... At being the white male Christian majority, I guess... That they shoot out schools, churches, and nightclubs. A belief that is so masterful in its lack of tact in that it both paints these shooters as victims of systematic oppression while simultaneously painting the white male to be weak and violent as actual minorities who have been subject to actual persecution have managed to deal with the trauma of their persecution (and pushed for change) without resorting to shooting up elementary schools. That was the part that made me have my “You serious, bro?” moment that made me want to find my zen.

So, there you go.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

To be fair I never said all or most women who accuse must be liars. Just a very tiny percentage.

I do agree about things like woman being told "Don't dress sexy!". Its sad that men will use that as an excuse to sexualize them. I am finding I am not the norm and more men then I realized are making excuses for their own sexual thoughts.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Ack, it didn't let me finish typing. I was also going to say about the male thing, you understand from a womans perspective what its like to be a woman. Likewise from a male perspective I understand what its like to be a male. So while I am not like most men, I still notice the hate growing for men from various groups. Just as women noticed the hate from men for decades upon decades.

I mean sure, maybe it doesn't really go cause a guy to go shoot people. But one never knows. When people feel cornered or trapped they do unbelievable things. I mean I don't have any urge to do said things of course. But I do feel pressure of having to walk on egg shells about everything currently because I am a white male. Especially since things have gone from "Turn the other cheek and walk away!" to "If someone hurts you, hurt them back!. The politics is a good example of this. Now both sides do bad things back to the other side based on what the other side did when they were in office.

Its usually I say nothing about most subjects. Example of that is this thread. Most of me was saying "Just avoid it, you know what will happen!". But I gave in anyways and posted. Doesn't help that I know I am terrible at wording things so often they come across wrong. But I keep hoping I will word things better.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I didn’t say you said all or most women must be lying. You outright said the opposite. I was pointing out your story was devoid of context and without that context it made it sound like you thought women lying about assault was a common enough issue that we should seriously consider that as a factor when these stories happen.

The reality is that anybody who’s accused is innocent until proven guilty, so if a woman could or couldn’t be lying isn’t the point. The point is unless we are dealing with a guy like Louis CK or Harvey Weinestein, where there are almost more accusers than non accusers It seems, we have to be really sure about not executing the accused before the trial. There were people who were accused (like George Takai) who were guilty of absolutely nothing, and others (like Aziz Ansari or whatever his name is) who were guilty of something, but not really sexual assault or harassment.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Ack, it didn't let me finish typing. I was also going to say about the male thing, you understand from a womans perspective what its like to be a woman. Likewise from a male perspective I understand what its like to be a male. So while I am not like most men, I still notice the hate growing for men from various groups. Just as women noticed the hate from men for decades upon decades.

I am not an expert on women because I have a vagina and they have a vagina too. I understand men and the male perspective way better than I understand women, always have, and since I spend 95% of my time surrounded by men, I always will most likely.

And, FWIW, maybe it’s because of what I said above, but I have never, ever noticed “hate” from men for “decades upon decades.” Even considering most of my jobs were in male-dominated fields (as in there were 200 employees and only 3 women) and I had men tell me to my face they didn’t like me or trust my work because I was a woman. I have noticed some men aren’t tactful or are too lax, I guess. I don’t know how to describe it. And I have noticed a few men enjoy taking or trying to take liberties. I’ve come across a small number who are predators.

We hear about the predators and the liberty takers the most, the untactful ones sometimes get lumped in there too. Most men I’ve dealt with (including the ones I don’t like and who don’t like me), however, will probably say something to the untactful guy, save you from the liberty takers, and downright massacre the predators. Maybe my experience with men isn’t the norm, but that is what it is.

I mean sure, maybe it doesn't really go cause a guy to go shoot people. But one never knows. When people feel cornered or trapped they do unbelievable things. I mean I don't have any urge to do said things of course.

It’s the “but” that kills you. There is no “but.” School shooters or mass shooters aren’t victims. They aren’t guys who were told they had to be tolerant of minorities and stop harassing women and aren’t taking it well and venting in an “unpredictable” way. Mass shootings aren’t caused by weak white men who can’t take hearing no.

But I do feel pressure of having to walk on egg shells about everything currently because I am a white male. Especially since things have gone from "Turn the other cheek and walk away!" to "If someone hurts you, hurt them back!. The politics is a good example of this. Now both sides do bad things back to the other side based on what the other side did when they were in office.

Walking on eggshells? No. Women aren’t crazy creatures who accuse people randomly of things just because. I’m not teaching my kids to walk on eggshells, just to be conscientious. Being aware isn’t hard. And, per my experience above, most men won’t have to change their behavior at all. The only men who should be nervous is the tactless ones. The harassers and predators, however, they should be paranoid.

 

[DZoolander]

lol - I'm not gonna wade into this one too far. Because I do support the movement as a whole.

But I will say that I believe that my opinion, being a man, is not welcomed in any discussions about the subject! hahaha I take a look at what happened to Matt Damon and think "Nope. Not gonna even chime in a point of view."

 

[DZoolander]

I mean, I have friends from HS on Facebook that post things, and I want to post things that are supportive. But then I think about Ben Affleck - and think to myself "This person is from HS. I may have said something crude when I was 16 years old around someone. Do I want someone flying out of the woodwork to say that my support is hypocritical because I made a lewd comment back in HS, and bringing that stuff up? I very well could have. 47 year old me doesn't really feel like being compelled to account for stupid stuff 16 year old me might have said"

So, I keep my support silent and my opinions to myself.

 

[Dave-W]

The reality is that anybody who’s accused is innocent until proven guilty, so if a woman could or couldn’t be lying isn’t the point.

Legally that is true.

But many are being fired from their jobs and having their families torn apart on mere accusation, whether it is proven legally or not.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

You should probably read my post as I commented on that quite specifically.

 

[Dave-W]

You should probably read my post as I commented on that quite specifically.

Actually, I did.

But the beat goes on (as Sonny and Cher used to sing) and there are all kinds of allegations flying all over the place, many of which have long passed any statute of limitations so there will be no legal action taken. I just heard this morning that "new" allegations against Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas have surfaced, from before his appointment to the High Court bench.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

No legal action doesn’t mean we shouldn’t hear about it if it truly happened. And in the case of some people being accused, such as Justice Thomas, Harvey Weinstein, and Donald Trump, there have been people making allegations for in some cases decades who were silenced who are now coming forward again in the hopes of finally being heard. I don’t blame them at all for trying again, after years of being punished for their victimhood.

 

[Dave-W]

No legal action doesn’t mean we shouldn’t hear about it if it truly happened.

IF being the operative word. Without legal action, how do we determine "beyond reasonable doubt" that it actually happened?

 

[Tropical Wilds]

By talking about it.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

I love when Christians in the US start screaming "persecution"...the day you are prohibited from walking in a church, when your life is at stake for being a Christian, THEN you're being persecuted.

So, those of us who think that the people screaming at women going into abortion clinics are "just trying to save a life"...do you KNOW why that woman is going in there? Maybe her unborn fetus has a fatal defect. Maybe it's already dead. Maybe if, instead of screaming, you told the woman that you would support her during the pregnancy, take care of the child after it's birth and give the woman what she needs to be independent...

Quit being a bunch of whiny brats because people have had enough of the so-called "dominant culture".

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Just because persecution here isn't as bad elsewhere doesn't mean it can't be talked about. Persecution is persecution no matter what. I find often the "lesser persecuted" often go ignored while people focus on the majorly persecuted. But after fixing the majorly persecuted, the ones that were "lesser" now have become the major. Hence we should focus on all persecuted, not just certain kinds/levels of it.

I can agree of course that I don't understand the people screaming at women going into the clinics. I mean if you want to hold a sign thats fine, its your right. But no need to scream.

As for a fatal defect, are you saying the woman should kill it just because it may be flawed? I mean even if we found out our future baby wouldn't last but a few weeks due to some severe problem. I'd still make sure my wife gave birth. Its still a human life. Yes, its life is terrible and it won't last long. But at least we can love the baby and do all we can for it. And there have been cases where a baby that was going to not last long actually lasted a long time. Years, maybe decades. Granted I realize thats a small percentage.

I guess I feel like God formed that baby in the womb. If it didn't develop right then its not my choice to decide if it lives or die. God knows when and how it will pass on.

I wonder if the women that want to be independent also treat the man as if he should also be independent? Because too often I find men just do whatever their wife tells them. Doesn't seem like they want the husband to be independent. Though biblically if you want independence you stay single. When you're married you become one. Not saying you MUST rely on every single thing from your spouse of course. But independence doesn't seem to match up with the word married as one.

Lastly aren't both sides technically whiny brats?

 

[Dave-W]

IF being the operative word. Without legal action, how do we determine "beyond reasonable doubt" that it actually happened?

By talking about it.

Talk alone establishes nothing.

 

[Dave-W]

Just because persecution here isn't as bad elsewhere doesn't mean it can't be talked about. Persecution is persecution no matter what. I find often the "lesser persecuted" often go ignored while people focus on the majorly persecuted.

We have no persecution in the US. And that is a bad thing.

2 Timothy 3:12
Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.​

If we have no persecution it is because as a whole, we are NOT desiring to live a godly life.

But after fixing the majorly persecuted, the ones that were "lesser" now have become the major. Hence we should focus on all persecuted, not just certain kinds/levels of it.

Why would one want to "fix" persecution?