where do you think the current PC will end up become?

[mkgal1]

Bias for or against someone based SOLELY on skin color, facial features or other group physical characteristics. It does not include speech patterns, education, or class.

That was taught in grade school.

Perhaps a higher (more age-appropriate) understanding would be more helpful, then.

Because that's not quite complete. "Racial bias" means something is believed about that person based ONLY upon seeing the amount of melanin in their complexion (and other physical features). They are being pre-judged. It goes further than just, "oh....that person is darker than I am" (that's not racism). There are pre-conceived beliefs being made about that person.

I'm so white you can almost see through my skin....so just about everyone is darker than I am. It's not "racist" for me to notice that.

A more innocuous example would be believing a tall young black man either plays or enjoys watching basketball (based only on seeing him and not actually getting to know him). That's bias.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

I find it interesting that posters here can come and rant against immigrants (legal and otherwise), people of a different socio-economic class, religion or political affiliation and it's all just fine. Let ONE PERSON say anything against the white male "majority" and people lose their minds. Do you see how racist you are? You can call me a racist and that's just fine...because yes, I'm tired of being a third class citizen no matter my education, my financial status...I'm a Latina. Strike one - not white. Strike 2 - not a man. Strike 3 - I speak Spanish.

To all you white people talking about persecution...have you EVER been asked for your green card? Yup, happened to me. I was in a store in a certain VERY racist place where the former sheriff purposely targeted Latinos..one of his deputies came and asked me for my "tarjeta verde". ALL BECAUSE I WAS SPEAKING SPANISH!!!

Now...get off your high horse about persecution.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I find it interesting that posters here can come and rant against immigrants (legal and otherwise), people of a different socio-economic class, religion or political affiliation and it's all just fine. Let ONE PERSON say anything against the white male "majority" and people lose their minds. Do you see how racist you are? You can call me a racist and that's just fine...because yes, I'm tired of being a third class citizen no matter my education, my financial status...I'm a Latina. Strike one - not white. Strike 2 - not a man. Strike 3 - I speak Spanish.

To all you white people talking about persecution...have you EVER been asked for your green card? Yup, happened to me. I was in a store in a certain VERY racist place where the former sheriff purposely targeted Latinos..one of his deputies came and asked me for my "tarjeta verde". ALL BECAUSE I WAS SPEAKING SPANISH!!!

Now...get off your high horse about persecution.

I have never been penalized for being white and even as a female who’s experienced sexism, the word “persecuted” doesn’t even enter my mind for reasons exactly like this.

 

[DZoolander]

I do find the whole topic kinda interesting.

It's not an issue I particularly care about, because I don't think that it really impacts me. I suffer no discrimination, I discriminate against no-one, and I attempt to be as impartial as possible. When I hear someone like Martin Luther King Jr saying he dreams of a time when people will be judged on their content of their character rather than the color of their skin (or sexual orientation, or whatever you may have) - I interpret that to mean being impartial on those issues. No bonus points are either given or taken away for being white, black, male, female, gay, straight, etc. It's what you do and say that matters.

That all being said - I do find the way people talk to be fascinating in that context. The egalitarian way that I work at to look at people was a consequence of how my parents raised me, how my schools raised me, etc. They drilled into my head at an early age that you ought not speak in gross generalities about people based upon superficial/cosmetic things. I don't engage in gross generalities about things like race because I was taught that was wrong.

So, on a fundamental level, it does strike me as a little weird when it seems to be socially acceptable to talk about my group in gross generalities...lol Talking about "white people" is an acceptable thing to do - and often an acceptable punch line. So, if I've been taught that it's wrong to talk about "X people because it ignores individuality and leads to gross inaccuracies about the group", how am I not supposed to notice when that doesn't seem to apply to the group I belong to?

It's not an issue I argue with people - because I understand WHY it happens. I understand the historical progression that brought us here. Everything is cause and effect. But, that doesn't change the fact that the fundamental precept that you ought not talk in generalities about things like "whiteness" or "blackness" (or any other group) is either true or it isn't. One thing can't be true for one group, but not true for another.

At least not if you want to get to a point where people are judged for the quality of their character instead of the color of their skin.

 

[DZoolander]

But hell so long as I've started getting into the discussion - let me discuss another phenomenon that bugs me...lol

The whole concept of "allies".

I've got an old childhood friend that's trans. One time they made a post on FB listing the "allies" they were thankful for - and listed me. I had a discussion with them after asking to be removed from that list, because that's not how I look at things. I'm not an "ally".

"But what do you mean you're not an ally? You argue for a lot of the same positions and give support on those issues?"

Yes. I do. I argue for things like gay marriage, etc...because I happen to believe in the ideas I'm arguing for. I'm not arguing for those because I have loyalty to you and I'm finding a way to make you comfortable. I'm arguing for those things - and our positions happen to be in sync.

I think when you call yourself an "ally" to anything - you lose objectivity. We may be in sync on this issue today - but I might want to argue a position counter to your beliefs tomorrow. I'm not going to sacrifice that freedom on my part in order to profess some allegiance to whatever cause it may be.

They didn't like my answer and asked for some things that I thought might be different in point of view. TBH I have no clue. I'm addressing things on an issue by issue basis. But if anyone is looking for an "alliance" with me - I'm the wrong guy for that...lol

 

[mkgal1]

I think when you call yourself an "ally" to anything - you lose objectivity. We may be in sync on this issue today - but I might want to argue a position counter to your beliefs tomorrow. I'm not going to sacrifice that freedom on my part in order to profess some allegiance to whatever cause it may be.

But if anyone is looking for an "alliance" with me - I'm the wrong guy for that...lol

That's an interesting thought (and I'd never considered "ally" in that way). It makes me think of how some parents say to their children, "I will support you no matter what". Another parent said that to me one time ("Well.....I support my child no matter what") in a superior sort of way. I love my [adult] child no matter what.....but I can't say I will "support" anything and everything she may do (which I have no concerns at all that will become an issue). That's just not the language I'd use.

That's often used in marriages as well ("I am ALWAYS on my wife's/husband's side"). Isn't that part of the reason God said it's not good for us to be "alone"? Isn't that the same thing--aren't we basically "alone"-- when we have "yes people" in our lives? I think it's far better to have another person's insight on things.

When all things are equal, it's one thing.......but when people are being targeted just for one visible characteristic (like those young girls on that commuter train in Portland)....I'm hoping I'm courageous enough to be an "ally" at that moment so the ones unfairly targeted know they aren't alone and ignored.

 

[DZoolander]

And so long as the issue is them being unfairly targeted, I will be on their side as well... Because nobody ought be unfairly targeted.

But that has little to do with any sort of loyalty to them or their cause.

I dunno - using the analogy of the parents having their kid's backs "no matter what"... My parents didn't have my back "no matter what".

When I talked back to the pastor of our church after he explained why we were the only "saved" faith - my parents had my back.
When I made fun of some girl in elementary school and made her cry - and got paddled over it - they sent the teacher who paddled me flowers thanking her for doing a good job. They didn't "have my back" (on a prima fascia level....lol)

I see it kinda like that. Everyone will have moments they're right, everyone will have moments they're wrong. I reserve the right to address each possibility with equal measure.

 

[mkgal1]

And so long as the issue is them being unfairly targeted, I will be on their side as well... Because nobody ought be unfairly targeted.

.....but isn't that your friends point, when they use the word "ally"? Aren't they speaking of a specific topic (their identity)....and how they're being targeted (unfairly) and even hated by people that are judging them? I wouldn't think they expect it (your loyalty to them) to extend out much further than that.

***This is a topic full of land mines...I'm trying my darndest to step carefully

 

[DZoolander]

Perhaps. But I don't know if it's always taken that way. Sometimes I've see things where someone who has offered support on a number of issues but disagrees on some other point reacted to like "but he's always been such a good friend to the community - and in that light this position shocks us! I guess he's not such a good friend after all!" - etc.

I'm just forewarning people - I'm not really a "friend of the community". I'm a friend of what I consider to be "fairness" or other principles, and in this context, I think fairness applies to you and I will fight/argue on your behalf. But it's the idea or principle that I'm most interested in. I'm not really interested in your group beyond that. It may be that tomorrow that you'll take a position that offends my sense of fairness - so don't be shocked in that situation if I'm suddenly not a "friend of the community".

My interpretation of "allies" is more along the lines of "it's your group I'm a friend to", and I am not any group's friend. lol Those become tricky propositions IMHO

 

[mnorian]

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[Dave-W]

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