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Where do you stand?

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Defender of the Faith 777, Dec 18, 2002.

  1. I am a Calvinist (TULIP)

  2. I am an Arminian (FCURF)

  3. I am a four-point Calvinist (I reject "Limited Atonement")

  4. I am a four-point Arminian (I reject "Falling from Grace")

  5. Huh? Wilikers! I am undecided.

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  1. cougan

    cougan Senior Member

    766
    +6
    Christian
    Mark 14:38 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into
    temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

    2 Peter 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our
    Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now
    and for ever. Amen.

    Romans 3:23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the
    glory of God;

    1 John 1:7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the
    light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of
    Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


    We all sin no doubt. We nust remember that we are not perfect but Jesus was perfect for us and we strive to be like him. Even though God will not allow us to be tempted more than we can handle we have to make the choice to take the way of esape he provides for us. We are freewill people and he does not control us like some robot so we have to grow as Christians and work everday adding to our faith by prayer and studying Gods word. As we fill our hearts with his words as time goes by you will start having less and less desire to sin and more desire to do those things that God approves. We need to limit our oppertunites of situations that we know will tempt us to sin and not hang around with the wrong kind of people that can lead you to sin. As you are growing in your faith it should give you great comfort to know that if you are walking in the light and striving to be sinless that if you do stumble this sin will be cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ. When we confess our sin to God through prayer he is ready a willing to forgive it.

    1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just
    to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all
    unrighteousness.
     
  2. Jephunneh

    Jephunneh Active Member

    703
    +0
    1 Corinthians 10:13
    There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.


    "Where do you stand?" - I stand on the word of God.
     
  3. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

    +9
    Non-Denom
    Romans 6
    1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

    6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with,£ that we should no longer be slaves to sin—7because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

    10The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. 11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.

    Galations 2
    20I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

    1 John 1
    6If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. (sin = darkness)

    1 John 2
    1My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin.

    6Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
    (perfected)

    4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. (He starts by talking about any sin, therefore he is still talking about any sin when he finishes. The context never changes.)
    7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning.
    9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
    (again, context: He who is born of God can not do what is sinful.)

    John 16
    33“I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”

    1 John 5
    3This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

    If you go around sinning all of the time then you are not keeping God's commands and you have not overcome anything.
     
  4. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

    +9
    Non-Denom
    A way of escape, before your temtation turns into sin.

    James 1
    13When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, IT gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
     
  5. Jephunneh

    Jephunneh Active Member

    703
    +0
    Thats true, I was posting it to cougan.
     
  6. Defender of the Faith 777

    Defender of the Faith 777 Well-Known Member

    +4
    United Ch. of Christ
    Wow.

    I didn't intend a debate, but ok.
     
  7. NoDeceit

    NoDeceit New Member

    65
    +0
    I believe both are teaching doctrines contrary to Christ (2 John9)

    The issue here lies with the fact that Calvinism teaches that Christ died only for the elect (i.e. limited atonement). Arminians contend Christ died for all mankind, elect and non-elect (i.e. unlimited atonement). The Arminian Dale Yocum sums it up by saying,

    There is no area in which the contrast between Calvinism and Arminianism is any more definite than in consideration of the extent of the atonement. Calvinists have insisted that Christ in His death provided atonement only for the elect, as has already been illustrated. Arminius strongly opposed such a view and insisted that the atonement was provided for all men. ( Creeds In Contrast , p. 80)

    The Scriptures that Calvinists use to support their position are Scriptures that address for whom Christ died and the purpose for His death. For example, note the following verses.

    And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins. (Matthew 1:21)

    I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. (John 10:11)

    And one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all, nor do you consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish." Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad. (John 11:49-52)

    Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. (Acts 20:28)

    . . . who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, . . . (Galatians 1:4)

    Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, . . . (Ephesians 5:25-26)

    . . . who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. (Titus 2:14)

    And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, and to open its seals; for You were slain, and have redeemed us to God by Your blood out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation," (Revelation 5:9)

    These verses indeed reveal that Christ died for the elect, and that He died to save them; but they do not reveal for whom Christ did not die.

    Other verses used by Calvinists are verses that say Christ died for many (e.g. Matthew 20:28; 26:28; Mark 10:45; Hebrews 9:28). But, again, this says nothing about for whom Christ did not die, and "many" is a very general term.

    Actually, the arguments used to support particularly the Calvinist position can become quite involved, but the bottom line is, for whom did Christ die? Scripture is not unclear on this.

    For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle - I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying - a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. (1 Timothy 2:3-7)

    Calvinists make Paul a liar (1 John 1:10), because they reject his words. Paul says Christ " gave Himself a ransom for all ." Calvinists contend that he did not. They argue that this "all" does not mean "all men," but this is the very context in which it is said (" who desires all men to be saved "). Of course, they have to reject this "all men" also and redefine it, so that it doesn't mean what it says and thus deceive the hearts of the simple (Romans 16:17-18).

    For an example of a Calvinists argument, John Owen, a puritan of old, writes,

    That is not to be asserted and affirmed which the Scripture doth not anywhere go before us in; but the Scripture nowhere saith Christ died for all men , much less for all and every man (between which two there is a wide difference, as shall be declared): therefore, this is not to be asserted. It is true, Christ is said to give his life "a ransom for all," but nowhere for all men. ( The Works of John Owen , Vol. 10, p. 245, in "The Death of Death")

    The exact wording Owen uses, "all men," is the exact context in which 1 Timothy 2:6 proclaims, " who gave Himself a ransom for all ," i.e. "all men" (1 Timothy 2:4). Yet, Owen distorts the Word and continues working deceit against 1 Timothy 2:4 & 6 by saying,

    . . . he expressly intimates that by all men he understandeth men of all sorts, ranks, conditions, and orders, by distributing those all into several kinds, expressly mentioning some of them, as "kings and all in authority." (ibid., p. 346)

    and in another place,

    For our parts, by all men we understand some of all sorts throughout the world, . . . (ibid., p. 381)

    The problem with this is, the text does not say "all sorts of men," but rather, "all men."

    If some might stumble at Mr. Owen's deceit, 1 John 2:2 should help.

    And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

    Here, the propitiation of Christ (the death of Christ) is stated to be not only for us, believers (e.g. 1 John 1:7; 5:13), but also for the whole world, unbelievers (e.g. 1 John 3:1, 13; 4:5; 5:19). 1 John uses this same term " whole world " one other time, and in this instance it is clear it means literally the whole world of the ungodly in contrast to believers, just as it is used in 1 John 2:2.

    We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one. (1 John 5:19)

    "We know that we are of God " equals believers, " and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one " equals unbelievers.

    The typical argument against 1 John 2:2 is that the "world" is used "in a restricted, limited sense." But, it is only "restricted" when it goes through the "limited" atonement Calvinist mind. For example, Palmer writes,

    The answer to this objection is that often the Bible uses the words world or all in a restricted, limited sense. They must always be interpreted in their context and in the light of the rest of Scripture. ( the five points of calvinism , by Edwin Palmer, p. 52, copyright 1972, Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, MI)

    The Calvinists' problem here lies in that they believe in limited atonement, therefore, "in the light of the rest of Scripture" equals "through the delusion of a limited atonement theology." When stuck on the limited atonement lie, several passages must be restricted and limited even though the context does not dictate such a qualification. Indeed, words should be interpreted in their context, but the context in which the pertinent verses lie do not restrict them to only the elect.

    For example, John 1:29 says,

    The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"

    Nothing in the text indicates a need to understand any limitation on the term world here, unless, of course, you believe in limited atonement. If you believe in limited atonement, then you can't simply take it for what it says. You must find another meaning. But, when you come to this text as a little child (Matthew 18:3), the truth is awesome!
     
  8. NoDeceit

    NoDeceit New Member

    65
    +0
    Another example can be found in Hebrews 2:9.

    But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.

    Christ tasted death for everyone (or for all , Greek - pontos). The immediate context is man (i.e. mankind, Hebrews 2:5-8) and "all things" (Hebrews 2:10). Yes, the elect are in the context also (Hebrews 2:10), but this does not take away the fact that "for everyone" is sandwiched between mankind and all things. Thus, everyone means everyone . Unless darkened by the Calvinist's lie, Hebrews 2:9 should remove all doubt.

    In John 4:42 and 1 John 4:14 Scripture proclaims that Christ is the Savior of the world. Nothing in these texts dictates a limitation or restriction upon the term "world." Moreover, when considering "the light of the rest of Scripture," if there was any question as to what the "world" means in these texts, 1 Timothy 4:10 answers it.

    For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

    It should be obvious, that "all men" includes unbelievers, because it says that Christ is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe . Thus, Christ is the Savior of all men, believers and unbeliever as well. Christ is indeed literally the Savior of the world. But, some may say, "How is He the Savior of all? Not all will be saved!" The answer is simple. Just as He is Lord of all (Acts 10:36), so He is Savior of all (John 4:42; 1 John 4:14; 1 Timothy 4:10).

    Calvinists David Steele and Curtis Thomas write,

    One reason for the use of these expressions was to correct the false notion that salvation was for the Jews alone. Such phrases as "the world," "all men," "all nations," and "every creature" were used by the New Testament writers to emphatically correct this mistake. These expressions are intended to show that Christ died for all men without distinction (i.e. He died for Jews and Gentiles alike) but they are not intended to indicate that Christ died for all men without exception (i.e. He did not die for the purpose of saving each and every lost sinner). ( The Five Points Of Calvinism, Defined, Defended, Documented , p. 46, copyright 1963, Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Co., Philadelphia, PA)

    Steele and Thomas limit the scope of these words with a Jew and Gentile concern. The problem is, none of the texts we have seen thus far support this interpretation. In fact, when Scripture was concerned about a Jew and Gentile distinction, He would say so (e.g. Romans 1:16; 2:9-10; 3:29; 9:24; 11:11-13). Moreover, Steele and Thomas say that Christ "did not die for the purpose of saving each and every lost sinner." This is completely the opposite of the words of Jesus. In John 3:17 Christ said,

    For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. (See also John 6:51)

    Someone might argue, "What! God sent His Son to save the world? To save everybody?" Yes, as Romans 11:32 says,

    For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

    Here, Romans 11:32 is indeed in the context of Jew and Gentile, but this makes the statement no less potent. The reason God committed all, Jew and Gentile (in other words everybody ) to disobedience was that He might have mercy on all, Jew and Gentile (in other words everybody). 2 Corinthians 5:19 says,

    that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, . . .

    The Lord was on a mercy mission when He came (Mark 2:17), and He was reconciling the world to Himself. Of course, many refused, on their part, to be reconciled to God (John 1:10-11), but nonetheless God's call and effort went out (Mark 1:15); and Christ took away the sins of the world (John 1:29; John 19:30).

    Probably the hardest tenet for Calvinists to swallow is that Christ could actually pay the price for someone's sin, and yet that person could still end up in hell. The Calvinist Charles Spurgeon illustrates this well.

    To think that my Savior died for men who were or are in hell, seems a supposition too horrible for me to entertain. To imagine for a moment that He was the Substitute, for all the sons of men, and that God, having first punished the Substitute, afterwards punished the sinners themselves, seems to conflict with all my ideas of Divine justice. That Christ should offer an atonement and satisfaction for the sins of all men, and that afterwards some of those very men should be punished for the sins for which Christ had already atoned, appears to me to be the most monstrous iniquity that could ever have been imputed to Saturn, to Janus, to the goddess of the Thugs, or to the most diabolical heathen deities. God forbid that we should ever think thus of Jehovah, the just and wise and good! ( C. H. Spurgeon's Autobiography , Vol. 1, p. 172, in "A Defense Of Calvinism," The Banner Of Truth Trust edition)

    Spurgeon failed to take heed to Proverbs 3:5-6. Contrary to Spurgeon's harsh words against the only Lord God (Jude 4, 14-15), the Word teaches the very thing Spurgeon abhorred.

    Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died .(Romans 14:15)

    Destroying in this context is destroying "the work of God" (Romans 14:20). Is this destruction unto perdition? Yes, note Paul's similar words in 1 Corinthians 8:10-13.

    For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

    Paul is here concerned about a brother being caused to stumble unto perdition ("perish"), and this is a brother for whom Christ died. It should be obvious that Paul is speaking in truth and reality, not fantasy, and it is certain that he is concerned about perishing eternally; because Jesus said,

    But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea. If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched - where "Their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched." (Mark 9:42-44)

    It is no wonder Paul said, "if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat!"

    Note further Hebrews 6:6.

    . . . if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

    This text speaks of those who will certainly go to hell, yet they are those for whom Christ died. How do we know this? Christ was crucified once for them, and this text says, " they crucify again for themselves the Son of God ."

    Hebrews 10:29 similarly says,

    Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

    For this person, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins (Hebrews 10:26), which means there was a sacrifice for sins for them at one time. This former believer was sanctified "by the blood of the covenant." In other words, they were made holy by the death of Christ and His shed blood in the past, but now they are without hope (Hebrews 10:26-27). This certainly describes one for whom Christ died, but ends up in hell nonetheless.

    2 Peter 2:1 is quite graphic.

    But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

    This speaks of false teachers who are doomed to eternal destruction (2 Peter 2:3, 9, 12, 14, 17) and it says here the Lord bought them. If 1 John 2:2 is true (and it is), we can know what He bought them with - His own blood. In fact, for those who want to play word games (2 Timothy 2:14), the term here "bought" is the Greek word agorasanta (from agorazo) and it is used in 1 Corinthians 6:20; 7:23; Revelation 5:9 and 14:3 (also in Matthew 13:44, 46; 15:46; 25:9; Luke 14:18; Revelation 3:18; 18:11; etc. it is used for literally "buy"). The Greek word for "Lord" is despotan and this is used elsewhere for the Lord God in Luke 2:29; Acts 4:24; 2 Timothy 2:21 Jude 4 and Revelation 6:10. Jesus is the Lord God, and thus 2 Peter 2:1 is speaking of Jesus, who paid the price for the sin of these false teachers.

    Now, someone may ask, "How could this be? How could Christ pay for the sins of false teachers and for all mankind, and yet these false teachers and the majority of mankind still end up in hell?" Because, they did not access this grace by faith (Romans 5:2), but continued in unbelief. The grace of God has appeared to all men (Titus 2:11), but not all have faith (2 Thessalonians 3:2). The price for every man's sin has been paid, but only those who believe have access into this grace (Romans 5:2).

    Finally, as we noted the erroneous gospel of Arminians (a faulty free will and conditional election), so the Calvinistic gospel is grossly in error. This is illustrated by John 3:16.

    For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

    As it is, Calvinists reject these words. Instead of believing them as they stand, the Calvinistic gospel is,

    For God so loved the elect (not the world) that He gave His only begotten Son, that the elect (not whoever) believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

    Truly, this is another gospel (Galatians 1:8-9).
     
  9. Rafael

    Rafael Only time enough for love

    +302
    Christian
    Married
    There are errors on both extremes. It's the combination understood in humility and meekness, and not used as a ten pound clout over the head. :0
     
  10. Auntie

    Auntie THANK YOU JESUS!!

    +603
    Christian
    Married
    We should all desire to not sin, and make every effort to avoid sin, that is a given.


    Those of you who say you have gone for weeks without sinning, congratulations and God bless.

    As for me, I always assume I am sinning, because I know I am a human being. Even if I *think* I am not sinning, it is only a matter of time before the thought of my *perfectness* will cross my mind. And then I will think to myself: "Hey, I am a really good person! I am not like others who are sinners, wow, look at me." PRIDE is the great deceiver of the heart. The only way to avoid pride is thru humility, and humility never speaks of itself.

    The person who is truely close to being sin-free, is also the person who would never make such a claim. Humility would not allow it.
     
  11. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

    +9
    Non-Denom
    That is an assumption about humility. Being humble does not mean being nieve. In addition it is a testimony to the power, grace and goodness of God. To not testifiy of God delivering you from sin, would mean that you are not giving God His due praise. No one has said that they have stopped sinning by their own power. When I say that I have experience sinless ness, it is not pride because it wasn't me that got me there, it was God. It would be a false humility for me to hold my tongue, because it was never my actions. I am trying to get you to take your eyes off of man. You are right, man can never stop sinning. But a dead man will never sin. If you are in Christ then you are dead, therefore you cannot sin. But you did not do anything. It was all God. In that state, to acknowledge that you are without sin is not pride, it is acknowledging God work in your life and would be sin to not acknowledge it. If you can stop looking at it in terms of human ability then maybe you can start to understand.
     
  12. Defender of the Faith 777

    Defender of the Faith 777 Well-Known Member

    +4
    United Ch. of Christ
    OK, if we're still talking about the claim to have not sinned for three months, then I have a little more to say in response to new developments.

    Fact: No one here actually believes that. Man, the disciples weren't able to do that from what we've seen.

    Though we have been given a new heart and a new mind, sinning is still PRETTY easy. We may grieve and quench the Spirit. We may drive Him away on a small scale, but ultimately, we can never drive Him away completely.

    We're very interested too. What was that sin you later fell into? I can't go an hour without thinking something wrong, or my mind drifting onto things that might seperate me from God. I may admire something temporarily more than God (such as hanging with friends, practicing a sport etc.) and so commandment two is in my violation constantly. I am angry. I lust. One will come by at least that often for me.

    How you managed to not THINK something wrong for three months is beyond us. TTYL Jesus love syou!
     
  13. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

    +9
    Non-Denom
    thoughts are not sin
    choices are sin


    if you believe that every evil thought that comes to you is your sin then show that in the Bible. Also you should not try to seperate me by saying that "know one here believes that", you don't know what every one believes or what I have experienced. Such statements are a judgement. Are you really ready to judge my testimony. Your experiences do not dictate truth. I know several people here that do believe my testimony. Please try to refrain from all inclusive statements.

    You must provide scriptural proof that, just thinking something contrary to the will of God is sin. Other wise don't make such statements

    The sin that ended it was prided.

    Reread James 1:13-15. That may clear it up alittle. It is already posted on this page.
     
  14. unitedistand

    unitedistand Crying for the Bridegroom

    192
    +0
    Non-Denom
    *rant mode on* Why do we need to nit-pick until the bible only becomes half-true and then the rest we just fill in with our own doctrines? Where in the bible is that lawful to do? wasn't God's word complete when it was written in the scrolls to begin with? *rant mode off*

    Alright.... compared to contrarty belief, it IS possible not to sin. It may not seemingly be easy to some, but it's possible.

    Jesse Duplantis said this best: When one walks in the spirit, they cannot fufill (fall into) the lusts of the flesh.

    Three scriptures for ya all to look up, they stand for themselves:

    John 8:3-11
    John 5:2-14
    1 Corinthians 10:13
     
  15. unitedistand

    unitedistand Crying for the Bridegroom

    192
    +0
    Non-Denom
    ...CAN I GET AN AMEN??
     
  16. Athlon4all

    Athlon4all I'm offline indefintely

    525
    +1
    unitedistand, yes we have all it takes to be holy while on this earth after we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. We are a new creation (II Cor 5:17), and Jesus told the disciples " Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." (John 14:12) Yet, unfortunately we all know that we sin right? John himself reaffirms this in speaking to the bretheren in I John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." We should be able to do the same works and more that Jesus did by the Holy Spirit, yet we limit the Spirit. This however does not effect our salvation because in the very next verse we are told that "if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
     
  17. unitedistand

    unitedistand Crying for the Bridegroom

    192
    +0
    Non-Denom
    athlon.... if you walk in the flesh, it's easy to sin
    However, if you walk in the spirit, are led by the spirit of God  constantly and fufill the things of the spirit constantly, it is IMPOSSIBLE to sin. Enough said.
     
  18. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

    +9
    Non-Denom
    1 John 1:8 refers to what, our present condition, our past condition, or our future condition.

    Or does it refer to the totality of all of our experiences. If I say that I have no fear, that would be false. Because I have comited sin. But I can truthfully say that I am not sinning right now, and I might be able to say that I havn't sinned all day. That does not contradict the fact that I have sinned.

    I like this verse
    1 John 1:6
    6If we claim to have fellowship with Him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.

    Isn't fellowship the whole point of salvation? Yet God says that as long as you walk in darkness (sin) you won't have fellowship with Him. Obviously He expects us to stop sinning altogether. Or what about chapter 2 verse 6?

    6Whoever claims to live in Him must walk as Jesus did.

    Do you walk the same way that Jesus walked? If not then you don't live in Christ. When I said that I went three months without sinning it was because I was chasing God so hard that I didn't have time to sin. I was in reality, and without trying, walking as Jesus walked, because that is all that He did, chase the will of the Father. It was not of my virtue that I stopped sinning, it was the virtue of the Spirit.

    Or look at what the American Standard says of 1 John 3:6-8.
    6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither knoweth him. 7My little children, let no man lead you astray: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous: 8he that doeth sin is of the devil;
     
  19. Defender of the Faith 777

    Defender of the Faith 777 Well-Known Member

    +4
    United Ch. of Christ
    Christ Himself said that if you lust someone in your heart, then you are guilty of adultery. 

    If you are angry with your brother, then you are guilty of violating the sixth commandment. 

    Sermon on the mount, basic elementary verses.  That ought to clear it up. 

    Man, I'm sorry, but it is my belief that you are NOT more righteous than the apostles or the disciples.  I don't know you, or them, but if I'm wrong, tell me you are more righteous than the apostle Paul.  Tell me you love Christ more than Peter did.  I think you've taken perseverance of the saints too far.  Sinning is still PRETTY easy.  Such claims of purity on the internet by strangers on forums is naturally not what we take seriously.  In all honesty, the OT prophets should have wrote about you.  If you did that, you're a hero to us all for having such power and authority over Satan.

    I don't believe everything someone I don't know posts on the internet.  Forgive me for my lack of faith, but I do know Scripture to the point where refraining from sin is a struggle, and from personal experience in a walk with Christ, I'll tell you it's very difficult to go a day without sinning or harboring anger or lust. 
     
  20. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

    +1,324
    United States
    Charismatic
    Single
     

    Keeping oneself from sin is only difficult because we do not kill the flesh as we've been told to do.

    Romans 8:11-13And if the Spirit of Him Who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, [then] He Who raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also restore to life your mortal (short-lived, perishable) bodies through His Spirit Who dwells in you. So then, brethren, we are debtors, but not to the flesh [we are not obligated to our carnal nature], to live [a life ruled by the standards set up by the dictates] of the flesh. For if you live according to [the dictates of] the flesh, you will surely die. But if through the power of the [Holy] Spirit you are [habitually] putting to death (making extinct, deadening) the [evil] deeds prompted by the body, you shall [really and genuinely] live forever.

    When we do what it says, then we will not struggle constantly with sin.



     
     
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