When "The Church" became catholic.

[CaDan]

Where have you been?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
For trying to change the system from within.

Leonard Cohen~ "First We Take Manhattan"

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Then we take New York

 

[bbbbbbb]

They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
For trying to change the system from within.

Leonard Cohen~ "First We Take Manhattan"

As Dorothy Parker once said, "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity."

 

[Root of Jesse]

By the way, saying your a sinner and demanding God be gracious doesn't work when you choose to be a sinner. Just a heads up.

And yet Paul admitted, with us all, that he sins though he doesn't want to. So we're all sinners, whether we embrace that sin, or not, whether we choose or not.

Admitting you're a sinner is the second step, after acknowledging that God is your savior.

Just a heads up.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Not hating other's is free. Please bring it next time.

I hope we can now move on, ty.


The topic is about catholics becoming "the church".

(Don't mess up again, )

Actually, it's about the Church being Catholic. And other's shouldn't have an apostrophe, either...

 

[CaDan]

By the way, saying your a sinner and demanding God be gracious doesn't work when you choose to be a sinner. Just a heads up.

While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

That is the mystery. That is the hope. That is the revelation. That is the faith.

 

[Targaryen]

I'm unsure why you guys are engaging with pyramid when he's been asked to leave the thread.

 

[BobRyan]

We no longer worship in Jerusalem. That makes us (kata-holos) catholic.

.

Not according to the Roman Catholic Church - that denies open communion to non-Catholics.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Not according to the Roman Catholic Church - that denies open communion to non-Catholics.

in Christ,

Bob

Communion has always been closed. That is not something that Rome made up.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Honestly, does doing the same thing a different way make someone apostate? That seems silly to me. If someone is doing communion with dixie cups, purple kool-aid, smashed up ritz crackers on paper plates.. is it not communion to some people? Why? They are still doing communion.

My point in that was; we are not doing the same thing.

We have different beliefs about "what" we are doing. This part is not about the doing; it is about the belief and faith in what we are doing.

During the first several centuries of "The Church" those who had not yet been taught about communion were asked to wait outside while the doors were shut. This closed communion continues today.

To us (catholic), it is the "Body and Blood of Christ", not that we know how, but we do know when. It is in the "service of the faithful", while the doors are closed, even if only figuratively (closed communion).

1Co 14:16
Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

That has not changed and will not change. Why? Because it is a sacrament. A Holy Mystery. Given to us by Christ himself and is the very center of all Christian worship.

It is not the same for a baptist.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
For trying to change the system from within.

Leonard Cohen~ "First We Take Manhattan"

Seeing you makes hanging around here a much happier thought!

Longus timus nous seeus.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Then we take New York

This sent my imagination flying!

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Rick Otto]

Nope. I'm still an Orthodox Christian learning from inside The Church of Antioch.

I'm just sharing the true meaning of the word "catholic".

Which we all are. Rome did not invent being catholic.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

I really enjoyed that.
Thanks.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Honestly, does doing the same thing a different way make someone apostate? That seems silly to me. If someone is doing communion with dixie cups, purple kool-aid, smashed up ritz crackers on paper plates.. is it not communion to some people? Why? They are still doing communion.

So... Apostate, as in having fallen away.

I hope you will excuse me when I say yes. The fact that these things are not maintained in a church would mean that they have fallen away from the "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic" Church.

How far from the straight and narrow path can we stray and claim to still be on the path?

God will not judge us on our ignorance's.

However, if we are to teach the faith and call it Christian, then it must absolutely be what has been handed down to us by that "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic" Church. The rest are shadows of it... and will ultimately lead us to the fountain of life.

2Th 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

People get more confused the farther away from this we stray.

The good news lie in the fact that the "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic" teaches that our salvation is based on "blamelessness and righteousness" before God (go read the psalms), certainly not on our understanding of Church and God.

The EO expects to see "the righteous" of every religion known to man enter into heaven. That is why she is the "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic" Church, because she bears the Truth.

The "BEST" way for sinners to enter the kingdom is through the sacraments.

May our hearts be a peace.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I really enjoyed that.
Thanks.

Good morning Rick!

Coffee?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Rick Otto]

Correct. When the word itself was changed to a proper noun and used to identify a group of worshipers at the exclusion of others.

Orthodox has also been used in this fashion to identify those early Apostolic Churches who disagreed with Rome on particular theological points.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

We agree on these facts.

 

[Rick Otto]

Rome became one of the churches mentioned in ACTS 9:31 in 42 a.d.

From the viewpoint of the E.O., Rome left that group slowly as she began making unilateral changes without the council of the other churches, pronouncing dogma that did not exist in the others. And so there came discord among the churches, no longer worshiping in unity.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Just so no one accuses you of spewing hatred, what does the EO consider the first unilateral change?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

We agree on these facts.

It's good to see you.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Rick Otto]

"Coffee?"

Ouch, no. I forgot to get beans, so I have to wait till I leave in about 15 minutes here, bro. You sound feisty and fit. Good to hear from ya.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Just so no one accuses you of spewing hatred, what does the EO consider the first unilateral change?

That would likely be the changes to the formal dogmatic statement of the "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church".

What everyone commonly calls the Nicene Creed.

They were small changes to be certain. The words "and the Son" were added. However these small changes changed Christology. It might not even be wrong, what was wrong is that it was changed outside of council.

The EO have protected the nicene-constantinople creed and it's true meaning.

There is nothing that says it cannot be changed. But everyone agreed when it was written that it could not be changed except by ecumenical council. Which leads to another problem; what is "ecumenical", for the EO it means that everyone (all churches in communion) agree that what they are agreeing to is "what has been believed from the beginning" and has the support of the test of time.

So... even how councils function, and how the Church government functions became greatly divided between the Greek speaking east and the Latin speaking west. One is from the bottom up and the other is from top down.

It really becomes a dogpile of small things that have amounted to huge changes in dogma and Church government.

God be gracious to me a sinner.